Do you think people are more like their opposite sings?

anne3

Banned
I know too many people who seem to match more with their opposite sun sign. Do you think there is something to this?

* I can't fix the typo in the lead line so I'll fix it here *signs*
 
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Krewster

Well-known member
To me those "kinds" of mismatches betw the astro factor upon which you seek to rely (e.g., Sun sign) in a familiar's chart and what you see in their behavior/experiences are a golden opportunity to find another more dispositive astro factor (e.g., often the minor aspects).

Query whether you think a Sun's sign will prevail (in perceivable behavior/experiences) over a handful of aspects to that Sun which may have a radically different nature.

T'would be nice if you throw us a chart with this mismatch and let's see what can be discerned.
 

anne3

Banned
Well, I am not referring to myself exclusively. I just notice people in general seem more like the sign opposite their sun sign. For instance, I find Aquas more like Leos. I find Aries more like Libras. I find Cancer more like Capricorn.

It isn't necessarily something that is noticeable all the time, I see the opposite sun sign peek through quite often though.
 
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greybeard

Well-known member
Gosh.

The sun was in Aquarius when I was born
and when I look in the mirror I see a silly old Aquarius staring back at me, not some roaring lion.

But then, with your difficulty in distinguishing "peak" (a mountain top) from "peek" (a furtive glance, or a peep), I can understand the source of your confusion. Oh well, you might have said "pique". English is such a mess. And so is astrology; it is not to be relied upon.
 
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junoisuppose

Well-known member
To me those "kinds" of mismatches betw the astro factor upon which you seek to rely (e.g., Sun sign) in a familiar's chart and what you see in their behavior/experiences are a golden opportunity to find another more dispositive astro factor (e.g., often the minor aspects).

Query whether you think a Sun's sign will prevail (in perceivable behavior/experiences) over a handful of aspects to that Sun which may have a radically different nature.

T'would be nice if you throw us a chart with this mismatch and let's see what can be discerned.

I agree.

Also the person in question could also possibly have planets in the opposite sign, or their ascendant or north node, all of which are visible when observing the person.

Or sun in the house related to the other sign or sun aspecting the ruling planet of the other sign.
 

anne3

Banned
Ok, no need to be rude, patronizing, and sarcastic, greybeard. I made a simple error in spelling but that does not mean I am an idiot. I am on this board to learn about astrology. I ask questions to get insight and understanding. Preferably from people who are interested in helping, not criticizing and condemning. :annoyed:
 
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Flapjacks

Well-known member
Ok, no need to be rude, patronizing, and sarcastic, greybeard. I made a simple error in spelling but that does not mean I am an idiot. I am on this board to learn about astrology. I ask questions to get insight and understanding. Preferably from people who are interested in helping, not criticizing and condemning. :annoyed:

Can you give some examples of this from natal charts, even if you're trying to make a generalization? It is hard to draw conclusions like that without either an entire chart or some kind of objective statistical evidence.

I think your question can be revealing for dualities between opposing signs, and insightful for what an opposition as an aspect means. What do you consider more "leonine" vs "aquarian" for instance?

Naturally I find this interesting considering my Sun and Moon are in opposite signs! I probably seem more like a Capricorn despite the Cancer Sun for that reason.
 
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Birch Dragon

Well-known member
Hi anne3,
This thread is a great opportunity to go deeper into astrology. It's entirely possible that you have run into many people in your life whose outer tendencies and actions seem to represent the opposite sign from their sun sign. But if that's the case, it's not because the general rule is that we gravitate towards the opposite of our sun sign.
Instead, it probably suggests something about the natal chart of each of those individuals you've met - something we won't know until we look at the chart.
The answer is not that we move away from our Sun sign but that people are more complex than mere Sun signs and the whole chart reflects that.
For one example, flapjacks's post above. (Quick advice, always pay attention to what flapjacks is saying, even when I disagree with her. :smile: She's always onto something... So too a whole host of names on this site).
Second, Many astrologer's will emphasize that when we know a person on just a day-to-day level we often experience their Ascendant - which is associated with a person's personality - more than then Sun energy. (So, some of the people you're thinking about could have their Sun opposing their Ascendant).
Third, I could offer myself as another example. I have a glob of planets conjunct in Aries - Sun, Moon and Venus. Yet when people I know talk about me they treat me as if I'm a lIbra. That is, they think of me as a person who primarily possesses the traits of a Libra (if they knew astrology, they'd guess I was a Libra) in that I tend to be all about negotiating, mediating and reconciling problems and issues. Why am I like this? Well, one response: Those Aries planets are in the 8th house, related to Pluto, while Pluto is the 1st house, related to Aries. And my Pluto, as it turns out, is in Libras - in opposition to that glob of Aries planets, actually. Now, a few months ago I read Steven Forrest's book on Pluto and was shocked at how prevalent his three pages on Pluto in Libra was to my life. Pluto is a generational planet and so doesn't always affect individuals so obviously, but because my Pluto is in my first house (and I hear the voice of graybeard in my head saying "And it's the leading planet in the locomotive pattern of my chart"), it really becomes very obvious in my personality.
That said, if you had me pegged as a "Libra" you'd be absolutely wrong. I am profoundly Aries-like. And I have a number of close aspects with my Neptune, and my chart's ruling planet in Pisces, which shows up in me just as much if not more than the Aries. But I am an Arian/Neptunian person whose outer personality (1st house) is all bound up with dire needs and drives for human reconciliation. People see me and primarily they see the Pluto in Libra - much, much more than even my Virgo Ascendent!

Sorry.. that accidentally went into self-analysis there. But the point is this: The more you look at whole charts and start putting the pieces together (as I just did with my own) the more you begin to see why Sun sign astrology is misleading - and exactly why you're bound to run into people who seem to be and behave very differently than their sun sign.
:smile:
 
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junoisuppose

Well-known member
Third, I could offer myself as another example. I have a glob of planets conjunct in Aries - Sun, Moon and Venus. Yet when people I know talk about me they treat me as if I'm a lIbra. That is, they think of me as a person who primarily possesses the traits of a Libra (if they knew astrology, they'd guess I was a Libra) in that I tend to be all about negotiating, mediating and reconciling problems and issues. Why am I like this? Well, one response: Those Aries planets are in the 8th house, related to Pluto, while Pluto is the 1st house, related to Aries. And my Pluto, as it turns out, is in Libras - in opposition to that glob of Aries planets, actually. Now, a few months ago I read Steven Forrest's book on Pluto and was shocked at how prevalent his three pages on Pluto in Libra was to my life. Pluto is a generational planet and so doesn't always affect individuals so obviously, but because my Pluto is in my first house (and I hear the voice of graybeard in my head saying "And it's the leading planet in the locomotive pattern of my chart"), it really becomes very obvious in my personality.
That said, if you had me pegged as a "Libra" you'd be absolutely wrong. I am profoundly Aries-like. And I have a number of close aspects with my Neptune, and my chart's ruling planet in Pisces, which shows up in me just as much if not more than the Aries. But I am an Arian/Neptunian person whose outer personality (1st house) is all bound up with dire needs and drives for human reconciliation. People see me and primarily they see the Pluto in Libra - much, much more than even my Virgo Ascendent!

Sorry.. that accidentally went into self-analysis there. But the point is this: The more you look at whole charts and start putting the pieces together (as I just did with my own) the more you begin to see why Sun sign astrology is misleading - and exactly why you're bound to run into people who seem to be and behave very differently than their sun sign.
:smile:

Regarding this particular chart example, and not to disagree with the analysis of pluto being a ruling planet, it could also just be the fact that libra is in the first house in this case, that is making a person appear somewhat libran. I too have virgo ascendant, and a big chunk of libra in the 1st house (& pluto too!). I have no planets in the 7th house, & no other planets in libra, but I am quite libran at times (liking harmony, not liking to disagree with people, being indecisive), and I think that is because this sign is in my 1st house, so like the ascendant is one of the first things that a person sees. In addition, as I have got older my ascendant has progressed into libra, making me come across as even more libran on first impressions. Also by duad, my ruling planet, mercury, is in a libran duad, which might also make me seem libran, and I have venus conjunct the sun. Any of these could also apply to the Aries in this example.

However I have also heard people say (I can't remember where I heard this! Maybe Liz Greene?) that signs do have a little of the opposite sign in them.
 
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anne3

Banned
I am not trying to make generalizations...sometimes the sun sign is the only information you ever find out. It is more than likely impossible to get a person's full chart all the time. You might meet someone and in talking to them once or a few times, they mention that they were born in, say, early April, or they may say their exact birthday, say April 2nd, or they might just say that they are an Aries. Or maybe the person is someone you work with and a birthday card comes around for you to sign because it is their birthday that day. Not everyone gets the full birth date details in order to perform a chart analysis.

I was just curious because I meet many Aries that to me come off as Libra-like. I know many Aquas that seem like Leos, and vice versa. I do not notice this opposite sun sign personality with every sign. And I do understand that there is more to someone's personality than the sun sign. When I do find out someone's birth details and can look at their chart, their personality makes much more sense. However, there are many times when I find out someone's sun sign, I am surprised that they seem more like the opposite sun sign. Not any other sign, but specifically the opposite sun sign.
 
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Flapjacks

Well-known member
Birch Dragon,

I don't know if I should take that as a compliment or not. :tongue: Good thing I find truth in disagreement. :devil:

Anne3,

Perhaps it's because people are often so contradictory to themselves. :lol:

Or, since you are going off your perceptions, you may notice the influence of the axis itself, and the relationship between the opposing signs. For instance, Aries has trouble being the diplomat (Libra), so that actually might turn into a focus depending on other factors. The sun itself is where we "shine" and work creatively to develop our sense of self and goals (see Sun thread, haha), and part of that might be developing weaknesses, which would be most obvious in the opposite sign. So, it could be an indication of a developing Sun. (shooting from the hip here until some real astrologers chime in)
 

anne3

Banned
I think you make some valid points, Flapjacks. It could be the aspects of the opposite sign that one would strive for or and perhaps it shows that way.

We think of astrology in terms of the natal circle (wheel?) and I'm wondering if it is not as fleshed out as we think. For instance, I'm wondering if the signs that are opposite one another are more intertwined in each other than we think. Like, if someone is an Aries, they have both Aries and Libra traits. If someone is a Cancer, they have both Cancer and Capricorn traits...regardless what the rest of the chart says. It is just something I am starting to wonder....
 

Halo Jones

Active member
I'm Leo sun with an Aquarius rising, so I know I could come off as being pretty Aquarian, but the truth is I am 100% Leo. I am warm and engaged -- Aquarians are many things, but nobody ever accused them of being "warm".

The Aquarians I know are overwhelmingly Aquarian. I don't know ... I've stopped trying to guess people's sun signs (I used to try to do it a lot), I only do it now (in my head) with people I'm especially intrigued by.

I looked up my chart delineation on http://astro.com and it told me that my dominant sign is Libra, which makes sense with my 7th house emphasis. I'm also pretty strongly Venusian, according to the same document.

My boyfriend's dominant sign is Scorpio, and he's pretty Marsy, though he's more evenly balanced between Mars, Mercury and Venus.

One enduring rule with astrology is that it can alwaaaaays get more complicated.
 

serafin5

Well-known member
Ok, no need to be rude, patronizing, and sarcastic, greybeard. I made a simple error in spelling but that does not mean I am an idiot. I am on this board to learn about astrology. I ask questions to get insight and understanding. Preferably from people who are interested in helping, not criticizing and condemning. :annoyed:

It's true, I think Greybeard was poking a bit of fun at you but he was also agreeing that astrology can be complex and confusing. I do understand you though. It's kinda like how for example I am a Scorpio Rising but my 7th house falls in Taurus and thus a "Taurus" type energy of someone is supposedly ideal for me. Am I on the right track? At its best this is Sun Sign astrology, a lot of forum members don't really like this because of the generalities, but I do see how for example a Leo person is supposedly a bit "haughty" but could be interpreted as "detached" like an Aquarian?:biggrin:


Serafin 5
 

anne3

Banned
I highly doubt if I replied to Greybeard the way he replied to me that it would be considered "poking fun". He was blatantly being rude. I don't know how ridiculing someone for their "difficulty distinguishing words" is considered poking fun. Would you defend me if I replied to him as he did to me? :unsure:
 
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Birch Dragon

Well-known member
Birch Dragon,

I don't know if I should take that as a compliment or not. :tongue: Good thing I find truth in disagreement. :devil:

All compliment! No qualifications.

It's a funny thing about human beings - funny to me anyway. When we say "Oh that person's really smart" we're really saying "That person knows her stuff. She thinks just like I do and I agree with everything she says. She must be very interesting and intelligent!" Because, of course, anybody who consistently agrees with us must be interesting and intelligent. It's something absurd about the human condition. We think we're complimenting others, and in the end we're just affirming our own high esteem of ourself.
HA!
The tremendous gravity of our own egos. So hard to escape!!!

So in part I guess I was trying to say that even when I disagree with you (which has been rare) I recognize your great intelligence and interestingness.

But of course, I know you don't need me to clarify. I just wanted to say more and sound smart.
Ego ego ego.
 
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Birch Dragon

Well-known member
Regarding Greybeard's post and anne3's response:

I'm really hesitant to make this post, because I really don't want to start debates and referenda about specific community members. But at the same time, I just can't resist the desire to try and play peacemaker here, as impotent as my efforts may be - both for greybeard's sake, who is a friend and deserves defending, and for anne3's sake, who has, as we all do, a valuable astro-resource and teacher available in Greybeard. Because anne3 has noted several times (across threads) that she's here to learn more about astrology, and she's come with genuine and welcome enthusiasm, I hate to see her miss an opportunity.

When I first came onto this site, in about my third thread - the first that actually had any discussion form around it - I got into a squabble with greybeard. I didn't know him yet. He detected a kind of arrogance in my typing (tone is hard to read on the Internet, but he wasn't really wrong, either. It's there.) So my entry into this website - my first real experience with discussion on this site - started with an ornery quibble. And I understand that on the receiving end, and especially as a new person looking to find their place on the site, it can hurt and feel like an attack.

But quickly that subsided and I realized that if I let Greybeard lead me down his train of thought - if I accept that there's a cadre of real, experienced astrologers on this site who actually have the deep wisdom of this arcane craft that I'm trying to get a better handle on - I see new and amazing things.

I really hope Greybeard doesn't find this offensive, because he has my admiration, but on this board (I don't know about life in general, but on this board) we have to think of Greybeard and some other posters as embodiments of Saturn. Saturn is old. His teeth ache and it hurts for him to pee. And yes, he gets ornery and looses patience sometimes. But if our goal really is to learn, Saturn is somebody we want to make friends with. Or at the least, pay attention to. We miss out if we don't. And when we do we actually find Saturn is always giving us useful lessons, friendly or harsh.
I know it doesn't seem like it, but even in the little post above from Greybeard there's an important, deep lesson he's hinting at - that all of us students of astrology must grapple with - about interpretation, precision in our thinking, and how astrology is like language (indeed, is a language).
 
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junoisuppose

Well-known member
Or, since you are going off your perceptions, you may notice the influence of the axis itself, and the relationship between the opposing signs. For instance, Aries has trouble being the diplomat (Libra), so that actually might turn into a focus depending on other factors. The sun itself is where we "shine" and work creatively to develop our sense of self and goals (see Sun thread, haha), and part of that might be developing weaknesses, which would be most obvious in the opposite sign. So, it could be an indication of a developing Sun. (shooting from the hip here until some real astrologers chime in)

I think this might be the answer.

The opposite is the sign that we (to generalise as sun signs) don't naturally have much of, or can't naturally express well. It also might explain why when that sun sign does try to express that opposite trait they do it in a way that comes off as negative.

For example Pisces, which is supposed to be all loving, tolerant and accepting of everyone can come across as snippy and Virgoan sometimes, and Aquarius which is supposed to be about the greater good can have an ego at times. Aries trying to be charming and egalitarian might come across as more sycophantic and smarmy. Please understand these are all just sun sign generalisations.

However, looking around at the sun signs around me, I am in two minds about whether they actually do display the sign opposite their sun sign. Some do, and some don't, which makes me think it is probably to do with other factors in their chart (ascendant, houses, other planets, aspects, duads etc).

& I really wish I could remember where I read or heard this before about the opposites showing up in the sun sign, then I might have a bit more to go on.
 

anne3

Banned
Sorry, I don't care if greybeard is the "wise man" of this message board. He is rude and I did nothing nor wrote nothing that would require such a response. I don't go around on here ridiculing other's intelligence.

As I said before, if I came on here and responded to greybeard as he did to me ("But then, with your difficulty in distinguishing "peak" (a mountain top) from "peek" (a furtive glance, or a peep), I can understand the source of your confusion"), all of you would call me rude and say it was uncalled for. No one would defend me. No one would call me a "young whippersnapper" and say "oh she is just a wild thing who says it like it is...don't mind her". Just because you have been on this board for a while and/or are aged, does not mean you can go around and directly attack other's intelligence, especially over the misspelling of a word or two.

Perhaps those of you defending greybeard have gotten to know him on this board and perhaps consider him your friend, which is exactly why I doubt any of you would jump to my aide if I sent him a post that was condescending, patronizing, and ridiculed him over the spelling of words thus leading him to believe he was not very intelligent and unable to put thoughts together - a post for everyone else to see. :pinched:

Please do not insist that I try to learn from someone who publically ridicules me when all I did was ask a simple question. I did not start trouble and was not in "need" of a Saturnian smack in the behind. I asked a question. And if I ask questions and get that kind of response, then that person is no longer someone I will turn to in order to get assistance. That is my prerogative. If others do, that is fine. I did not suggest anyone else not listen to greybeard. If you are his friend and find value in his responses, then good for you. As for me, I do not. I do not seek guidance from those who ridicule me; he does not have to respond to any other of my posts. Nor does anyone else who is offended that I am offended by him.
 
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Flapjacks

Well-known member
I really hope Greybeard doesn't find this offensive, because he has my admiration, but on this board (I don't know about life in general, but on this board) we have to think of Greybeard and some other posters as embodiments of Saturn. Saturn is old. His teeth ache and it hurts for him to pee. And yes, he gets ornery and looses patience sometimes.

No one would defend me. No one would call me a "young whippersnapper" and say "oh she is just a wild thing who say it like it is...don't mind her". Just because you have been on this board for a while and/or are aged, does not mean you can go around and directly attack other's intelligence, especially over the misspelling of a word or two.

Oh dear, I'm sorry, but these parts made me giggle so much. It would be wonderful if greybeard responded to Birch Dragon calling him old and impatient with a quip about "loosing patience because of loose bowels" or something similar. I know Birch Dragon would like that. Now I've ruined his chance.

And anne, the thought of referring to you as "a wild thing who says it like it is" was awesome. Your cleverness is shining through! I have upmost respect for your intelligence.

I wanted to point out... I think Birch Dragon has it backwards. I think greybeard is embodying Mercury here (making snappy remarks about language use) and anne is showing Saturn, scolding greybeard for immature behavior and lack of consideration for her (justified to me, I might add).

It's quite amusing. I hope we can get past this and discuss the topic because I find it a good one.
 
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