12th House Sun Equals Psychopathy??

as249x said:

Let me elaborate on my observation of 12th house Suns being Psychopaths.
I don't mean to generalize when I say anyone with a 12th house sun is a psychopath.

I came across a YouTube Astrologer Kapiel Raaj who covered information about the sun in the 12th house.
I also have read many articles about this placement.
Kapiel mentioned someone with this placement could , "be an ego or personality of someone who is like a killer, a murderer or psychopath..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSaaKY-sI7A

Aside from that, articles I've read have mentioned that the relationship with the father is often sacrificed, emotionally or physically through the loss of the father.
I mention this because Michael C Hall, the actor for the TV series Dexter has his sun in the 12th house. Michael C Hall lost his father at the young age of 11 (Sun Square Saturn in 12th house)

By no means am I saying he is a real life psychopath. I do find rather interesting however, is that his character Dexter is a serial killer. A psychopath. If you have seen Dexter, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Not only that, but my brother has his sun in the 12th house. I mention him because he also had father difficulties. Not by death, but emotional death. Father was not at all a father figure.

My last point is that even though my brother would never act on it, He has displayed psychopathic thoughts and fantasies.

Anyway, that was my observation. I wonder if anyone can connect the dots or have seen similarities with what I just said.

Thanks for reading.

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Interesting. George W Bush has 12th House sun

kendra said:

Horus, I tried Ericksonian hypnosis but it didn't work. There are many therapies ... It's not easy to find a therapy that fits.
I have not tried the NLP, there are also EFT, CBT, ACT, EMDR ... difficult to choose with many possible therapies.

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There's a lot to say on this topic and I don't wish to derail this thread, so you have a PM.

"The 12th house does not deny self awareness, it encourages it, and that happens through meditation and introspective contemplation in solitude and/or through healing work, the provinces of this house. This is how one can become aware of subconscious patterns of thought and behavior including the "self undoing" and karma associated with placements in the 12th."

UNfortunately, the number of people who GET to the state of seeking answers through meditation is a small percentage of those with 12th house energy.

We are not taught - at least in no culture I am familiar with - to meditate, contemplate, find our authentic selves - at least not as children. And in childhood is the time when the habits of a lifetime are formed.
On the contrary, we are taught to obey, conform, learn by rote, get through the next school year without embarrassing onesself or one's family, and finally become self sufficient.

So anyone who finds the path to enlightenment does so "on his own" and that is NOT the average person.
For the average person, the 12th house, if occupied (or even if it's not) is a place one does not visit, work on, or understand unless forced to by outside circumstances.
This is my experience with clients and others in my life.

One cannot escape some sort of sacrifice in our lives: and one place we can find this dynamic is the 12th house.
LIN

Lin said:

"The 12th house does not deny self awareness, it encourages it, and that happens through meditation and introspective contemplation in solitude and/or through healing work, the provinces of this house. This is how one can become aware of subconscious patterns of thought and behavior including the "self undoing" and karma associated with placements in the 12th."

UNfortunately, the number of people who GET to the state of seeking answers through meditation is a small percentage of those with 12th house energy.

We are not taught - at least in no culture I am familiar with - to meditate, contemplate, find our authentic selves - at least not as children. And in childhood is the time when the habits of a lifetime are formed.
On the contrary, we are taught to obey, conform, learn by rote, get through the next school year without embarrassing onesself or one's family, and finally become self sufficient.

So anyone who finds the path to enlightenment does so "on his own" and that is NOT the average person.
For the average person, the 12th house, if occupied (or even if it's not) is a place one does not visit, work on, or understand unless forced to by outside circumstances.
This is my experience with clients and others in my life.

One cannot escape some sort of sacrifice in our lives: and one place we can find this dynamic is the 12th house.
LIN

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Well I guess you can make these rather sweeping generalizations, but there's no way of really knowing just how many people with personal planets in the 12th are meditating or contemplating their life. Contemplation simply means taking time out and thinking about things -nothing too unusual there.

Luminaries and personals in this house are predisposed to seek some solitude or isolate a little bit (or a lot). That's what I was getting at. That's because this is the karmic "doghouse" so to speak; in past lives one incurred negative karma and now they need to slow down or stop and deal with it on a different level. Some of this may be brought about externally (seemingly, though apparent external circumstances can be manifested from within) and others will have a natural inclination. I have a 12th House Moon and I absolutely need some time alone every week. I know many others with 12th House luminaries or personal planets who do the same, without being forced to do so.

As for habits, those are not only started in childhood.

It's true that I know only what 1) what I have read and studied regarding the 12th house, and 2) clients with 12 house issues which I've helped them work on (and always suggest and advise meditation, NOT comparing onesself with others and self help literature centered on these issues) and 3) my own 12 house issues and my own working on it. BUt....I'm an astrologer and I've learned thru time that delving into the 12th and getting to know it and not be afraid of the truth in it is vital to my life.

But....as Gibran says, and this is paraphrase: you can't give another your wisdom. Everyone has to find his own truth. and in order to do that you have to delve into some dark and secret places.

MY experience is that most people just don'twant to do this....most people today want some sort of instant wisdom and immediate epiphany....something totally impossible unless they're having unique multiple transits that are karmic in nature and lead them to this 'ah ha!' moment of discovery.

So it's just what I have experience with. I'm not arguing the premise.
LIN

Lin said:

It's true that I know only what 1) what I have read and studied regarding the 12th house, and 2) clients with 12 house issues which I've helped them work on (and always suggest and advise meditation, NOT comparing onesself with others and self help literature centered on these issues) and 3) my own 12 house issues and my own working on it. BUt....I'm an astrologer and I've learned thru time that delving into the 12th and getting to know it and not be afraid of the truth in it is vital to my life.

But....as Gibran says, and this is paraphrase: you can't give another your wisdom. Everyone has to find his own truth. and in order to do that you have to delve into some dark and secret places.

MY experience is that most people just don'twant to do this....most people today want some sort of instant wisdom and immediate epiphany....something totally impossible unless they're having unique multiple transits that are karmic in nature and lead them to this 'ah ha!' moment of discovery.

So it's just what I have experience with. I'm not arguing the premise.
LIN

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"MY experience is that most people just don't want to do this....most people today want some sort of instant wisdom and immediate epiphany....something totally impossible unless they're having unique multiple transits that are karmic in nature and lead them to this 'ah ha!' moment of discovery."

This is the thing that I have noticed about people with Sun in 12th - they would far more accept and deal with their secrets by not dealing with them at all. My own take on the 12th is that it is the place where our "make up homework assignments" are at.

Where it is that we have challenge in our lives is where it is that we will also need to seek peace. A lot can be said, too, of where Saturn is in one's chart. I have hidden from Saturn for a long time, but Saturn seems always to find me when I least expect it, which is typically in the familial arena of my life (Cancer in 12th). And family is not always only our blood. Family are those who are closest to us, and they are also the ones who bring us the harshest most important lessons in our lives.

There is a lot going on in my own life right now, make no mistake. There are things that others who are very close to me are experiencing at this time and that I am unable to help them with because I know what they are dealing with is meant. What I cannot get past is my own fear from knowing what it is that they are going through and because of my intuitive abilities, there are times when I am "reading" their energy and "see" ugliness there - such as them becoming abusive, or worse, them becoming abusive with themselves when really, they do not have to do that - it is just what they are taught.

As you stated earlier, we are not taught a whole lot of things, and they are typically things that are very important to our growth as beings in this lifetime. What we are taught, again, as was stated, is to conform. In conformity, I think, because conformity = "incarceration" on some level, a 12th house sun would feel stuck, depending upon the other things in their chart, at first (dependent, I think, on their rising sign and how it would behave in such situations), within their own selves. They might feel like they cannot change a thing about themselves, but, this is not the truth.

Another thing that I have noticed about this sun placement is that these people are very hard on themselves. I find that they will blame outer circumstances, including those who they love the most, for their ills. Then, a bit later, they go into self-destructive mode, begin beating themselves up, and not realizing things are the way that they are because they are "answering" the 12th house energy in accordance to what it is that they have been taught through subconscious messages delivered to them during childhood and into early and middle adolescence.

It is during those times of growth in every manner possible that we are also meant to learn to process these things in the best manner we can. This is also something that we are not taught. We have to learn things on our own before we can utilize those things in the real world.

Just wanted to hop on in and tell you all that I am beginning to get a clue about some very important things in terms of the people who I love the most and the ones who have hurt me the most

The way the 12th house sun makes most sense to me....

The sun is your core sense of identity.
Negative=ego-attachment.
Postive=healthy sense of self.

The 12th, among other things, is the house of "self-undoing."

What gets "undone" in the 12th is one's ego-attachment. Which can be pretty rough on 12th house people, given our society's focus on self-actualization.

Particularly if there is a 6th house (service) focus as well, I think these people do best with an altruistic focus on helping 12th house types of people less fortunate themselves (such as hospital patients,) or aligning with a cause or group of people bigger than the individual.

It is not unusual to find 12th house suns who are leading political figures. I think they succeed by aligning with and to some extent sacrificing their egos to a greater cause or to their constituencies.

This doesn't mean the ego goes away, but it is disciplined to get its rewards through service activities, not through ego-based needs or pride. If their self-sacrifice goes well, they get a lot of positive feedback from others.

Sort of like in the Bible: if you want to save your life (metaphorically) you must be willing to (metaphorically) lose it.