Houses Generally

Cypocryphy

Well-known member
I made a graph for anyone new to astrology or horary astrology to get a quick grasp of what they are and the primary meaning behind them.

HousesinHoraryGeneralConsiderations.png
 

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Cypocryphy

Well-known member
A Law of Divination

The greater the urgency, the more needed the answer, the more dire the situation underlying the impetus of the question---the more accurate that answer shall be. When a follow-up question has been asked on the same topic, the accuracy decreases significantly. This is due to the first answer satisfying the need. Certainly a desire for clarity will not disrupt the accuracy of a second question, though it will depend on one's subjective understanding of the initial question. If it is only to test the universe to see if it will provide a more palatable answer, the answer will be inaccurate to the point of being useless. If you refrain from asking superfluous questions, you will receive adequate answers to your callings. This is universal law.
 
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Moog

Well-known member
I don't really understand some of the assignment of houses to day and night. I think I get the idea, but some of them seem a bit weird. Is that based on anything particular?
 

Cypocryphy

Well-known member
Hey Moog:

Yeah. The night houses are, of course, the houses the Sun passes through at night, and the night houses are those oriented toward Self (procession of the equinox). The opposite is the situation for the other houses. Does that answer your question?

See ya,
C.
 

Moog

Well-known member
Hey Moog:

Yeah. The night houses are, of course, the houses the Sun passes through at night, and the night houses are those oriented toward Self (procession of the equinox). The opposite is the situation for the other houses. Does that answer your question?

See ya,
C.

Of course, dim of me not to see that, perhaps because you noted them in reverse.

The inner/outer, north/south split doesn't work.

I don't think the qualities you've assigned to day/night houses make sense in a lot of cases. Some they do.
 

Moog

Well-known member
The 5th house is night; subjective; private.

It's not really, is it?

Neither the 6th, or 3rd.

12th is group oriented? How so? 8th? Doesn't make sense to me. The 8th is objective? In what way?

These labels just don't make sense when applied in groups to clusters of houses simply because they share a hemisphere of the chart.
 

Cypocryphy

Well-known member
The 5th house is night; subjective; private.

It's not really, is it?

Neither the 6th, or 3rd.

12th is group oriented? How so? 8th? Doesn't make sense to me. The 8th is objective? In what way?

These labels just don't make sense when applied in groups to clusters of houses simply because they share a hemisphere of the chart.

Yeah! I see what your are saying, and I suppose it seems counter-intuitive to think of, say, the 5th house has subjective or private. (It is a night house, obviously.) But if you think of the fifth in the sense that it deals with your personal enjoyment, your sex life, your children, your self-gratification, then you can see how it is subjective, personal and private.

The sixth house, in turn, is your work environment, your health, your work and labor, your service to others, etc. And the third is certainly your local environment. It is much closer to self than is the ninth.

The twelfth is spirituality, which is collective. It is traditionally secret enemies, which is other than yourself. It is charity and welfare programs, thus group oriented. It is regulation by others.

The eighth is other people's resources, their talents, their valuables, money borrowed from others.

You see?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Yeah! I see what your are saying, and I suppose it seems counter-intuitive to think of, say, the 5th house has subjective or private. (It is a night house, obviously.)
IF the 5th house is 'a night house' then how is it the alleged 'natural house of the sun' when the sun is clearly related to daytime? The blazing sun lighting up the entire sky and obscuring all else therein is scarcely private IMO. Just curious :smile:
 

Cypocryphy

Well-known member
IF the 5th house is 'a night house' then how is it the alleged 'natural house of the sun' when the sun is clearly related to daytime? The blazing sun lighting up the entire sky and obscuring all else therein is scarcely private IMO. Just curious :smile:

That's a good question, JupiterAsc.

These are dilineations ascribed by medieval astrologers and their predecessors, for example, the Greeks. So why do you think the Greeks ascribed the Sun to Leo when the Sun has set and is projecting its beems at the opposite end of the Earth? What do you think their reasoning was?

Perhaps it was due to the Sun's rulership being that of Leo, the fifth sign, not necessarily the fifth house. That's my belief.

But I'll let you contemplate it, and then maybe you can discover the reason for the association . . . a tip of the hat to the Greeks, so to speak, and their socratic method. :smile:
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
That's a good question, JupiterAsc.

These are dilineations ascribed by medieval astrologers and their predecessors, for example, the Greeks. So why do you think the Greeks ascribed the Sun to Leo when the Sun has set and is projecting its beems at the opposite end of the Earth? What do you think their reasoning was?

Perhaps it was due to the Sun's rulership being that of Leo, the fifth sign, not necessarily the fifth house. That's my belief.

But I'll let you contemplate it, and then maybe you can discover the reason for the association . . . a tip of the hat to the Greeks, so to speak, and their socratic method. :smile:
I'm assuming you have no answer then to that 'good question' Cypocryphy ... btw the question I asked relates specifically solely to 'Modern Astrology' because in ancient times, including the time of Ancient Greeks such as Vettius Valens there was a different form of reasoning

Completely different from the 'Modern' reasoning that apparently 'connects' Sun to 5th house as 'natural ruler'

You are of course entitled to your opinion on this matter
:smile:
 
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Cypocryphy

Well-known member
Are you trying to play an "I gotchya" game with me? The planets are primarily associated with signs, not houses.

Additionally, when we use "night" and "day," they are being used in this sense for their symbolic, subjective meanings, that being "day" outward manifestations, and then "night" personal, inward manifestations. So these qualities are associated with these southern and northern hemispheres. This is, in the same sense, how "feminine" and "masculine" are used. We are not literally talking about gender but, rather, energies. That is the underpinning for the usage of day and night.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
tsmall may have been referring to Whole Sign, the original house system that designates one whole sign for one whole house

Since then, over a couple of thousand years, house systems have multiplied... now we have more than forty house systems - fourteen of those are available for experimentation on astro.com
:smile:
 

Cypocryphy

Well-known member
I'm assuming you have no answer then to that 'good question' Cypocryphy ... btw the question I asked relates specifically solely to 'Modern Astrology' because in ancient times, including the time of Ancient Greeks such as Vettius Valens there was a different form of reasoning

Completely different from the 'Modern' reasoning that apparently 'connects' Sun to 5th house as 'natural ruler'

You are of course entitled to your opinion on this matter
:smile:

Hey. You've got to share now! :smile: What was the Ancient Greeks reasoning?
 

tsmall

Premium Member
Are you trying to play an "I gotchya" game with me? The planets are primarily associated with signs, not houses.

:lol:

No, no games. Just something else to consider. The Thema is an ancient teaching tool.

Yes, the planets are associated with signs, but they are also associated with houses. All astrologers, ancient and modern, give natural "house rulerships" to the planets, as well as joys that are based on house position and not on sign rulership.

Many of the definitions associated with the houses came from the natural house rulers.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Hey. You've got to share now! :smile: What was the Ancient Greeks reasoning?
Gladly. How long have you got? :smile:

Siriusly though Cypocryphy here's some info on just one of those ancient ways of thinking
- and there's even something on the 5th house as well. btw JMO it's important to remember that the Greeks were themselves influenced by many cultures
It appears that the Thema Mundi is an Hellenistic astrological teaching aid

Eric Francis notes: “Thema Mundi is the chart that truly is one of the ancient keys to astrology. Keys lead to doors and doors lead to different places... this is the beginning of an adventure”. And fwiw, IMO tsmall, many astrologers agree with the Thema Mundi placing of Cancer as the 'natural first house' instead of Aries.

An example is the following 97 word extract, sourced from an article viewable at
http://planetwavesweekly.com/dadatemp/1832374392.html

QUOTE:
“Cancer, sign of mothering associates with the 1st, house of incarnation, where one comes into tangible form.

Aries is Thema Mundi 10th house of fiery initiative, career, fame, worldly expression. Capricorn does not fit the outgoing initiative required of 10th.


Aries as the natural sign associated with 10th helps us understand Aries Point, which seems closer in meaning to 10th than to Ascendant.


Children are often conceived in 5th house - overlaying the house of passionate sex with the sign of mysteries of birth and death makes sense. A fun romance, can involve you deeper than you planned”
 

Cypocryphy

Well-known member
Ha ha. :smile: Sure. The Joy of the fifth is Venus, I think . . . :unsure:

Anyway, yeah. I am familiar with the natural rulers of the houses. Their use is very important in chart interpretation, especially when occupied by the luminaries. And the Sun's nature is very much associated with the fifth, but perhaps this contradicting condition of the fifth being a night house, yet the home of the Sun, can be regulated by not taking the meanings literally but taking them for their subjective effect.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Ha ha. :smile: Sure. The Joy of the fifth is Venus, I think . . . :unsure:

Anyway, yeah. I am familiar with the natural rulers of the houses. Their use is very important in chart interpretation, especially when occupied by the luminaries. And the Sun's nature is very much associated with the fifth, but perhaps this contradicting condition of the fifth being a night house, yet the home of the Sun, can be regulated by not taking the meanings literally but taking them for their subjective effect.
The form of reasoning you have mentioned is not for those who have alternative opinions e.g. for example Hellenistic astrologers and of course, their ancient predecessors :smile:
 
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