Hyleg and Alcocoden

DreamingTheSeas

Well-known member
This is my chart. I am a night born person, so i start with Moon.

-Moon in Virgo is in 10th house which is an Hylegical house.
-Mercury is the ruler of the Moon which is the natural ruler of Virgo
-Triplicity ruler is Moon
-Exaltation ruler is Mercury.
-Decan ruler is Mercury
-and Mercury makes good aspects except of that square with Part of Fortune.

So, my Hyleg is Moon and my Alcocoden is Mercury, the position and aspects of mercury gives me the highest years of protection ???

But.... Mercury is retro and uner Sun's beam, so its not in his best. So, mercury gives me the middle years of protection?

please tell me if my calculation are right
 

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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
4. I think there is a rational problem, as well. How good are any of these methods in predicting mass deaths, where the deaths of hundreds or even thousands of people are nearly simultaneous? If a jumbo jet blows up (cf. the Lockerbie, Scotland crash), if thousands of people are swept away by a tsunami (as has happened in recent years in Southeast Asia and Japan) or when atomic bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it just beggers credulity to think that each of these victims' alcocodens and hylegs got simultaneously activated.
That's easy to say. HOWEVER, since ninety thousand people perished in Hiroshima and approximately seventy four thousand people died in Nagasaki then that is a combined total of one hundred and sixty four thousand natal charts to analyze - including verification of time of birth. Clearly then a belief or disbelief that 'each of these victim's alcocodens and hylegs got simultaneously activated' is neither provable nor disprovable. That's because no one has delineated every single one of all of those one hundred and sixty four thousand charts

Clearly, all these people DID have one thing in common i.e. THEY WERE ALL LOCATED IN A CITY ON WHICH AN ATOMIC BOMB WAS DROPPED.

An important factor to note is that, some survived

Astrologers who have looked at the charts of survivors of large scale disasters such as plane crashes, explosions and so on have found chart patterns indicating that they had 'above average good fortune' - there were of course survivors of the bombings of Hiroshima as well as of Nagasaki and if anyone has any research material regarding any studies of their natal charts that would be relevant


 

waybread

Well-known member
Have you got an event chart for the founding of Hiroshima, then? Why not post it and analyse it according to your methods?

In the meantime, I'll rely on simple common sense.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Have you got an event chart for the founding of Hiroshima, then?
Posted elsewhere on this forum are comments that you are a retired academic with an academic interest in astrology and therefore are likely aware of such a chart and may well have studied one in the past. Furthermore fwiw the timing of the dropping of the weapon of mass destruction that was dropped on Hiroshima is well documented. However, just in case as you seem interested then here's a link that gives precise timing for you or anyone with a similar interest, so that you or anyone in fact, may create and view such a chart if inclined to do so

'....Hiroshima 広島市 is the capital of Hiroshima Prefecture, and the largest city in the Chūgoku region of western Honshu, the largest island of Japan. It is best known as the first city in history to be targeted by a nuclear weapon when the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) dropped an atomic bomb aka a WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION on it at 8:15 A.M. on August 6, 1945, near the end of World War II. Its name 広島 means "Wide Island"....' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroshima

and these links are to recorded documented recollections of survivors as well as recollections of the perpetrators of the mass destruction of Hiroshima http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF4LQaWJRDg and also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t19kvUiHvAE
Why not post it and analyse it according to your methods?
Astrological analysis of the event chart for Hiroshima is scarcely unusual and in fact an online search would rapidly provide a vast quantity of astrological opinions on that occurrence for anyone with a need to peruse them :smile:
In the meantime, I'll rely on simple common sense.
JMO it seems likely we all rely on our own individual ideas of 'simple common sense' and obviously 'simple common sense' is a relative term
 

Olivia

Well-known member
Clearly, all these people DID have one thing in common i.e. THEY WERE ALL LOCATED IN A CITY ON WHICH AN ATOMIC BOMB WAS DROPPED.

And that is the key right there, not analysing 90,000 charts for hylegs, alchocodens, primary directions that could have prematurely cut the alchocodens' years short, etc. etc.

Taking a page from Avraham the Spaniard, otherwise known as ibn Ezra, one of the first things he tells astrologers is that astrology does not contravene natural law. He also explains that a personal chart falls under quite a hierarchy of other considerations. From Nativities and Revolutions:

...The third way is the rule that comes from the effect of the Great Conjunction on each country. Thus, if within the influence of the Conjunction upon the nations war is supposed to befall a certain nation, even if many of those born in it do not have an indication of death by the sword in their nativities, when the time for war for that country comes, they will all be killed....

There's quite a lot more, but no need to quote all of it, one hopes.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Clearly, all these people DID have one thing in common i.e. THEY WERE ALL LOCATED IN A CITY ON WHICH AN ATOMIC BOMB WAS DROPPED.
And that is the key right there, not analysing 90,000 charts for hylegs, alchocodens, primary directions that could have prematurely cut the alchocodens' years short, etc. etc.

Taking a page from Avraham the Spaniard, otherwise known as ibn Ezra, one of the first things he tells astrologers is that astrology does not contravene natural law. He also explains that a personal chart falls under quite a hierarchy of other considerations. From Nativities and Revolutions:

...The third way is the rule that comes from the effect of the Great Conjunction on each country. Thus, if within the influence of the Conjunction upon the nations war is supposed to befall a certain nation, even if many of those born in it do not have an indication of death by the sword in their nativities, when the time for war for that country comes, they will all be killed....

There's quite a lot more, but no need to quote all of it, one hopes.
I agree that ibn Ezra sums up the matter :smile:

- particularly

QUOTE:
'......even if many of those born in it do not have an indication of death by the sword in their nativities, when the time for war for that country comes, they will all be killed....'
 

babec

Member
Hello!

My Alcocoden is Mercury in X.house Virgo. Mercury is sextil with Saturn, and some program show Mercury - Sun (X. house Virgo) conjuction, some program not show that. Mercury is retrograde. So this is 46, or 78 years??

Thanks

Mona
 

poyi

Premium Member
From the other thread Culpeper mentioned this thread had brought me here.

Now finding Hyleg the most dignified planet in my natal chart is a bit tricky as normally I would choose between Mercury or Jupiter. But perhaps Mars is the One. Mars actually rules my Sun, Mercury, Saturn, 3rd and 8th house while mutual reception with Mercury and exalted by Moon.

What do you guys think?

So far through the good god of Googleldo, I found these readings.

http://www.bernadettebrady.com/Pdfs/Hyleg.pdf
http://www.greekmedicine.net/medical_astrology/Longevity_and_the_Hyleg.html
http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/hyleg.html

As per palmistry and my Chinese astrology and 8 characters reading. I expect to live a relatively long life, but with ongoing health illness due to complete lack of fire element in the 8 characters which signifies the heart and part of circulation same as Western Leo. Which in natal Leo is the 12th house cusp. Saturn does conjunct Sun in lose aspect but under combustion, and ruler of the 5th and 6th. I have always have heart issues, if I ran a little longer distance my vision will turn golden yellow due to hypoxia and usually go to 120 bates a minute. The worst situation was when I was in severe period pain with heavy bleeding it cause my blood pressure dropped to 80/40s range with heart rate of 140s I almost collapsed at work. Had many chest pain and palpation every couple of weeks due to WPW syndrome.

I think learning about Hyleg and Alcocoden will enlighten my understanding of medical astrology.
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
The methodology and concepts discussed on this thread all arise from Traditional Western astrology, and Uranus, Pluto (and Neptune) were not yet discovered when this technique as originated: so, the answer from the historical and Traditionalist perspective is no.

(However, just because a method was developed at one time in history, does not necessarily mean it cannot be used with additional factors at a later time: so from my perspective the answer to your question is yes: however, such an application is outside of the material allowed to be discussed on this particular Forum-which deals exclusively with Traditional Western astrological matters-and so no further comment will be made, here)
 

poyi

Premium Member
This is a traditional method so modern planets were never exist to the ancient astrologers for their examination of effectiveness.

If you only use traditional planets, it will work well, I believe. When I read regular charts, I see both traditional and modern always see the same thing.
 

fastlane69

Well-known member
Thank you dr. farr and poyi....

I'm sure you both know why I am asking....but I want to find my own answer so no one has to tell me. I appreciate the guidance.

My next question is this: must the alcocoden make a Ptolemaic aspect to the Hyleg, or are there exceptions?
 

poyi

Premium Member
Thank you dr. farr and poyi....

I'm sure you both know why I am asking....but I want to find my own answer so no one has to tell me. I appreciate the guidance.

My next question is this: must the alcocoden make a Ptolemaic aspect to the Hyleg, or are there exceptions?

I think that will be the case as by logic, it has to have major aspect to be powerful enough to Give Life and Sustain Life. Minor aspect of course has it own value particularly in the modern practice. However, in the traditional practice, this Model is built upon such principles so therefore following the original rules. Then once you mastered the model with the original principles, you may explore further.

It is the same with weather prediction and gaming prediction from what I heard. There are rules for each predictive model and rules are developed for capturing the trend of energy flow.
 
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fastlane69

Well-known member
I am studying the paper written by Bernadette Brady on this matter. I have my moon at 6 degrees 34 minutes Capricorn second house, in novile aspect to Venus at 17 degrees 14 minutes Aquarius. I am not sure if the minor aspect of moon/Venus applies in my case as Venus is ruler of term degree at 6 degrees Capricorn; her paper does not state exactly what aspect they must make, but instead just says an aspect. If this is not the case, then I would look to the Ascendant, as my Mars at 5 degrees 22 minutes Leo trines my Ascendant at 27 degrees 25 minutes Scorpio. The Ascendant would make more sense, and is in a grand trine to my Sun at 27 degrees 55 minutes Pisces, fourth house, in conjunction to Jupiter at 26 degrees 10 minutes Pisces also in fourth.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I am studying the paper written by Bernadette Brady on this matter. I have my moon at 6 degrees 34 minutes Capricorn second house, in novile aspect to Venus at 17 degrees 14 minutes Aquarius. I am not sure if the minor aspect of moon/Venus applies in my case as Venus is ruler of term degree at 6 degrees Capricorn; her paper does not state exactly what aspect they must make, but instead just says an aspect. If this is not the case, then I would look to the Ascendant, as my Mars at 5 degrees 22 minutes Leo trines my Ascendant at 27 degrees 25 minutes Scorpio. The Ascendant would make more sense, and is in a grand trine to my Sun at 27 degrees 55 minutes Pisces, fourth house, in conjunction to Jupiter at 26 degrees 10 minutes Pisces also in fourth.
Novile is not a Ptolemaic aspect :smile:

Ptolemy distinguished four major aspects between zodiac signs:
sextile, square, trine, and opposition

William Lilly included the conjunction
as well as partile or platick as discussed at
http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/aspects.html
 

fastlane69

Well-known member
Novile is not a Ptolemaic aspect :smile:

Ptolemy distinguished four major aspects between zodiac signs:
sextile, square, trine, and opposition

William Lilly included the conjunction
as well as partile or platick as discussed at
http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/aspects.html

Thank you Jupiter for your guidance....
I did not understand this is quite different from modern practice. Please forgive my novice ability in these matters....but I am learning quickly. :biggrin:
 

fastlane69

Well-known member
From the other thread Culpeper mentioned this thread had brought me here.

Now finding Hyleg the most dignified planet in my natal chart is a bit tricky as normally I would choose between Mercury or Jupiter. But perhaps Mars is the One. Mars actually rules my Sun, Mercury, Saturn, 3rd and 8th house while mutual reception with Mercury and exalted by Moon.

What do you guys think?

View attachment 42893

So far through the good god of Googleldo, I found these readings.

http://www.bernadettebrady.com/Pdfs/Hyleg.pdf
http://www.greekmedicine.net/medical_astrology/Longevity_and_the_Hyleg.html
http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/hyleg.html

As per palmistry and my Chinese astrology and 8 characters reading. I expect to live a relatively long life, but with ongoing health illness due to complete lack of fire element in the 8 characters which signifies the heart and part of circulation same as Western Leo. Which in natal Leo is the 12th house cusp. Saturn does conjunct Sun in lose aspect but under combustion, and ruler of the 5th and 6th. I have always have heart issues, if I ran a little longer distance my vision will turn golden yellow due to hypoxia and usually go to 120 bates a minute. The worst situation was when I was in severe period pain with heavy bleeding it cause my blood pressure dropped to 80/40s range with heart rate of 140s I almost collapsed at work. Had many chest pain and palpation every couple of weeks due to WPW syndrome.

I think learning about Hyleg and Alcocoden will enlighten my understanding of medical astrology.

Poyi,

I use Janus 4 software for my calculations. It also does traditional charts I have discovered in the last couple of days. According to Janus, your Hyleg is Mars according to Ptolemy, and Moon according to Bonatti. I know I am new at this, but would put my money on Mars as your Hyleg. Others may disagree, that's fine. If Mars, then Mercury is surely your Alcocoden. You have Venus in sextile to Mercury. Mercury in Scorpio gives middle years. Plus lesser years and middle months for Venus.
 

poyi

Premium Member
Thank you very much for checking that for me I also thought Mars as Hyleg in my chart. From personal observation when transit Uranus (modern outer) at antisicon of natal 25 degrees Mars in Virgo I had this minor in damage but major in life changing accident. I am fascinated and think that there is room for further research crossing both traditional and modern methods like what dr Farr always does. I have now trying to always read a chart in both traditional and modern way to look for common points.

There are a lot of death prediction methods developed and used by many different cultural background of ancient astrologers. With the right attitude, any tool can be useful for positive purposes. This is highly subjective as you can see the recent arguments, but simply as part of our life to learn about right and wrong. We all need to find our own answers.

Thank you once again of using your software to help me to find my Hyleg.
 
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