Why am I noticing that Virgos....

Or at least Venus in Cancer can love and be loved unconditionally when the archetypes are expressing healthily.

I suppose Venus in Capricorn is capable of unconditional self-love when its working well, too, but in this case it is more difficult to achieve this state. Having said that, this placement brings a strong impetus to achieve that state in those who can acknowledge their fears honestly. Where as Venus in Cancer could potentially stay in a 'shell' of safe relationships.

It might be, at least in my case I have Virgo asc, 6th house in moon, and I'm quite manipulative, selfish alot and I do like being in control. It might be due to other aspects of astrology, not just sun, asc, moon. etc.

On the very positive side I loved the symbolic epitome of Virgo that Julia and Derek Parker gave in The Compleat Astrologer of Virgo epitomizes Alice in Wonderland!



No sign nor aspect is completely bad nor good for as a famous astrologer writer and leader of a famous sect of astrologers one said:

"There is no evil only good in the making"

And I'm not saying this astrologer's name because it's nice to see if others are well read and know the same quote providing they weren't asleep when they read that book!

Let's not bully the Virgos to harshly, they have enough problems with self esteem and their shyness, and they may hate their own critical eye from time to time for no one catches certain details as a Virgo sun can!

The idea that the first six signs are all about me gets overplayed. The first 6 signs are not anymore selfish than the last 6. Everyone in this world has their own agenda, the difference between the 2 halves is that the first half generally tries to achieve it through their own devices while the last half tries to advance their aims through other ppl.

The sources that led me to my conclusion would be life and observations of ppl in general. I dont need any other sources since I have a mind and choose to use it, which I find preferable to letting others think for me.

Hi. I agree with The Ram about the signs. Because the tropical zodiac mirrors the annual seasonal cycle, we can look to nature to for validation of this view. In spring and summer individual plants are thriving, but in autumn and winter many of them release their seed and some or all of their very substance back into the greater whole which is the ecosystem.

And although there is an emphasis on individuality in the first six signs, ego compulsions can distort the expression of any sign.

Personally I do want others to do some of my thinking for me. I wouldn't like to try to work out astrology from scratch, for example.

A book which really gets to the heart of the cyclical shift of emphasis between individualism and collectivism throughout the tropical zodiacal cycle is 'The Pulse of Life' by Dane Rudhyar. Its not the easiest book to read, but well worth the effort.

miquar said:

A book which really gets to the heart of the cyclical shift of emphasis between individualism and collectivism throughout the tropical zodiacal cycle is 'The Pulse of Life' by Dane Rudhyar. Its not the easiest book to read, but well worth the effort.

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This really has me thinking about just how prevalent this theme is going to become and is already becoming in the now entered Age of Aquarius. The Aquarius-Leo axis is the one of identity. Individualism vs collectivism. The main theme is staying as a unique individual inside a united society. I also think it really demonstrates the key of this age since it goes in line with separation from oneness as well. That's why this age is the most important so far, since everything is simply identity away from Source. Its all about the integration of polarity and this age is the simplest and yet most effective at doing this since it is simply about identity. Its the balance between self and others. We cannot have too much of either without chaos. We are working towards a collective conscious but while also retaining an individual vibration inside said consciousness. So in a sense being connected and separate simultaneously, the ultimate achievement in the eyes of source.

Blaze said:

I have met the "strange" Virgo though. My friends cousin is a nasty (As in, He lives in a house that resembles a trash can), selfish person (And also a Virgo-sun). I wonder what his chart looks like.....

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I snorted out loud. My word that was a funny comparison! Anyways, ahah ok moving on ahaha omg I can't lol.

Ram

The sources that led me to my conclusion would be life and observations of ppl in general. I dont need any other sources since I have a mind and choose to use it, which I find preferable to letting others think for me.

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If you are an aries sun, AR rising, Moon in Ar, or with AR on the third I think I understand the why of it if you can see yourself in the joke!

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77212

There are all kinds of horoscopes and each Virgo is different.

Had a Virgo roommate when I was 23 who confided with his Sun in the 8H that he went to prostitutes and the main reason he didn't pay or have sex with them was the hygiene fear; so Virgoish but then his Cap rising and virgo sun spared him!

I knew another virgo man descended from Russian Jews who was an atheist, and the way he conducted his financial trades with others one sort of understands why Hitler did what he did, talk about someone way into himself.

Then a bro of mine had a friend who looked just like him from the same place, Los Angelos; he took him for a ride setting him up and swindled him out of $140.

Now I'm using extreme cases as charts can and do show extreme personality traits, but virgo knows who number one is, and it generally isn't the other!

Hi LeoJeo. I came to associate the Leo/Aquarius axis with identity after reading Liz Greene's book, 'The Art of Stealing Fire'. In part of the book, she looks at Uranus through the houses, looking at each house axis in turn, and using the term 'identity' to define the 5th/11th axis. I think it works really well - people who are part of a group often like to advertise the fact on a badge or t shirt or whatever, and the group may be a group of people who follow a particular entertainer, leader or artist. So the 11th is very much bound up with identity.

But I was wondering if you have seen this association in any other books or writings besides the book mentioned above? I thought maybe Greene had got it from Rudhyar, but I haven't come across it when reading his stuff so far.

Anne3

are a little on the manipulative side? I have also noticed that they are selfish and like control. I have met a few that are troublemakers. Aren't virgos supposed to strive to help others? All I am noticing is that they strive to help themselves and they really do not have the ability to look outside of their own perspective.

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I have an aunt of the sign who the whole family wouldn't visit my uncle because of all the drama she created; she was as you stated to the core! The whole family agrees she could have tried out for the Wizard of Oz and easily got the part, nobody visits her any more as she is so much into herself; at the extreme.




I have a sister who in college took 21 hours one semester, sorority sister, and in the band(majorette), virgo-like she made straight A's, a true academic virgo. Yet in life for years she ran off so many suitors as she dated doctors and lawyers desite being a self-made millionaire herself, looking for the bigger dollars and none of her beaus lasted more than 6-8 weeks as they eventually caught on. She even tried to get into Scientology to meet men for her 'gold digger ambitions'! I even reprimanded her over a decade ago saying "..just because you are attending church, if dollars in a man are your only materialistic ideal, and despite you being a virgin(she was and still is) are you any different than the prostitutes in the brothels in Nevada and the street walkers in San Francisco?"

She didn't talk to me for over a decade, but now we were close because she knows now that virgo side of hers was way too materialistic back then. And she is Not homely she looks a lot like Farrah Fawcett:

I know some very lovely Virgos. It would be worth looking for other chart features in these alleged manipulators and control-freaks that people are speaking of. And then looking to see if those same chart features sometimes express in the same way in people born under the other signs.

Virgos of both sexes are almost always highly attractive.

I never found virgo sun more attractive than any other sun.

Love2Know said:

I never found virgo sun more attractive than any other sun.

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Agreed. They look too plain and almost dull-like.

Leos are so much sexier and appealing. I should know, I'm one myself.

Hi anne3. Its interesting that you see Virgos as attractive and manipulative. These are characteristics usually attributed largely to the 8th house, which is where you have Mercury in Virgo, with Virgo on the 8th cusp. Possibly your very strong Libran emphasis means that your shadow side is somehow bound up with your 'underdog' Virgo streak.

All the signs have negative qualities but, and I say this as a Virgo sun, Virgos have the negative qualities that really get to a persons core bc they literally just shred people up on a personal level with criticism. Virgo dark side is more "let me do this for you the right way", they can't tolerate someone else messing up so they definitely can come off as selfish while inside their head they believe they're doing a favor. I've defintely had my control freak episodes where i wanted to do all the hard work for other people so it would be perfect (i didnt trust them to do a good job) but they ended up missing out on the experience, so while i thought i was helping with a generous deed, i had selfish intentions and was controlling by depriving them of their involvement. Virgos are very generous people, and I've met so many helpful and giving Virgos in my time, but they can just as often get jaded when they don't feel helpful or get taken advantage of, which is really easy to happen... people love to take advantage of someone who literally enjoys doing all the hardwork for you. Virgos also definitely have that laser sight that causes them to miss out on the big picture. This only ever eases when they can calm those mercury nerves lol... even still, virgos definitely need a travel guide in life lol...

Virgo is also surrounded by Leo and Libra who have dark sides that only enhance the me me me and manipulation, if mercury should fall in them. Not that any sign is inherently bad... I've noticed Virgos with Leo mercury's are way more high strung and libra mercury can be deceptive

I've always associated Scorpio and Virgo, they both are very protective and giving. It's no surprise they'd both share a quality of manipulation on the negative side, it's kind of a "I know what's best for you, so let me do the work for you" thing for Virgos, where Scorp has other reasons...

I think once a Virgo is able to laugh at themselves their shadow side chills out. I don't think a Virgo will ever stop criticising people, but they learn to tone it down when they can laugh at themselves and loosen up. It's so easy for a Virgo to become negative because while they criticise people constantly, the criticism inside their head directed towards themselves never quiets and they end up holding others to these impossible standards as well. until they're able to openly laugh about it and realize not everybody is holding the magnifying glass to them, they are literally a walking ball of nerves and they take it out on people around them bc the nerves just become an inevitability...

Timeconsumer - what a great post.

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People ON THIS THREAD need to get back to the basics of using dignities, personal planets and where the themes/emphasis are, to determine a persons ENERGY in a chart. Let me explain:

I am still really gobsmacked at how people tend to focus in on a person's Sun sign, instead of reading the entire chart for a dominant theme /energy. I know a Virgo Sun with such a strong emphasis in other areas of the chart, that you would NEVER think he has any Virgo energy. Thus, you cannot say that he has Virgo qualities, can you?

In contrast:

I also have a lot of distant family members with both Virgo Sun and Mercury in Virgo (dignity) - the effect of birth planning. It might have been a good idea at the time to have huge birthday parties at the same time or people you can relate to around you. But not a good idea!, because you end up with a household BOMBARDED with the Virgo energy in the most negative way. And they think it is normal because that's how most of them are and think. They shred each other and others apart with criticism, blame and over-analysis and they are all of the Virgo weaknesses x2. That is where you REALLY see what Virgo weakness are.

Are people getting the idea of just how important it is to use dignities, personal planets and themes/emphasis, instead of just saying... aww he's a Virgo sun...

It depends a lot on the chart of the person also I think the 'best' manipulators of the zodiac would be water signs since they are so emotional I think they have a better understanding on how to persuade a person to think/feel the same way they do. I'm not saying a person with their sun in a water sign is emotional but what I am saying is if a person has tons of water in their chart, they feel very deeply, so I think their strong viewpoints on things could easily persuade someone else. Hope that makes sense