JUPITERASC
Well-known member
JMO this interesting thread http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66767 shows the necessity to define what is meant by the idea of 'Free Will' 
If You Are An Astrologer Then What Is Your Definition of Free Will
- Thread starter JUPITERASC
- Start date
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
To begin with, here is a random online dictionary definition
Free Will
Noun
The power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate
the ability to act at one's own discretion.
Free Will
Noun
The power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate
the ability to act at one's own discretion.
Shadowflash
Well-known member
Hey there, JUPITERASC...
Best analogy I've ever come across illustrates the crucial differentiation between what is decided at a soul level, prior to incarnation, and the free-will choices available to us as that incarnate human being.
Our soul chooses (that which has often been called fate, destiny, etc.) the vehicle (body, aspects of psychoemotional persona) and the various "roads" (life circumstances) we will traverse, as well as the path-crossings with other incarnate human beings within them... Then it is *our choice,* always, how fast or slow to go upon those roads, whether we *at least appear to* turn off them altogether or stay on them and, of course, what we say, do and enact within the relationships we engage upon them.
Make any sense?
Brings to mind an old story I once heard that, I'm sure, is meant to convey the all-encompassing bottom line of soul-level choice. A devotee approaches his guru to complain that he's overheard another devotee claiming that the guru told him his entire karma (or destiny, or the predicament of having pre-set roads to travel upon, so to speak) has been entirely absolved. The first devotee says, "But, guru, how can this be? You've often told us that one's karma or destiny cannot possibly be avoided?!" The guru smiles and says, "If this devotee's karma has been absolved, it can only be that it was his chosen destiny..." (soulgrowth plan)..."that his karma be absolved in this way. No other possibility exists."
My understanding of this whole thing is that one's natal chart describes the "vehicle"...(the body, the psychoemotional makeup)....that's been chosen for this life, and that all predictive angles of astrology -- transits, solar arcs, progressions -- highlight the current life-circumstance atmosphere and potential realms of *choice* offered each of us as we travel these "roads" and "path crossings" of relationship...
Best analogy I've ever come across illustrates the crucial differentiation between what is decided at a soul level, prior to incarnation, and the free-will choices available to us as that incarnate human being.
Our soul chooses (that which has often been called fate, destiny, etc.) the vehicle (body, aspects of psychoemotional persona) and the various "roads" (life circumstances) we will traverse, as well as the path-crossings with other incarnate human beings within them... Then it is *our choice,* always, how fast or slow to go upon those roads, whether we *at least appear to* turn off them altogether or stay on them and, of course, what we say, do and enact within the relationships we engage upon them.
Make any sense?
Brings to mind an old story I once heard that, I'm sure, is meant to convey the all-encompassing bottom line of soul-level choice. A devotee approaches his guru to complain that he's overheard another devotee claiming that the guru told him his entire karma (or destiny, or the predicament of having pre-set roads to travel upon, so to speak) has been entirely absolved. The first devotee says, "But, guru, how can this be? You've often told us that one's karma or destiny cannot possibly be avoided?!" The guru smiles and says, "If this devotee's karma has been absolved, it can only be that it was his chosen destiny..." (soulgrowth plan)..."that his karma be absolved in this way. No other possibility exists."
My understanding of this whole thing is that one's natal chart describes the "vehicle"...(the body, the psychoemotional makeup)....that's been chosen for this life, and that all predictive angles of astrology -- transits, solar arcs, progressions -- highlight the current life-circumstance atmosphere and potential realms of *choice* offered each of us as we travel these "roads" and "path crossings" of relationship...
Shadowflash
Well-known member
Woops; sorry, finger/brain connections not entirely in sync at the moment... 
I should also clarify my belief/understanding that all predictive angles of astrology not only "highlight the current life-circumstance atmosphere and potential realms of *choice* offered each of us as we travel these "roads" and "path crossings" of relationship..." as I said above -- but also, and perhaps more importantly, reveal the *As Within/So Without* timing of our chosen soulgrowth issues outpicturing into what we experience as our 3D life experiences....
I should also clarify my belief/understanding that all predictive angles of astrology not only "highlight the current life-circumstance atmosphere and potential realms of *choice* offered each of us as we travel these "roads" and "path crossings" of relationship..." as I said above -- but also, and perhaps more importantly, reveal the *As Within/So Without* timing of our chosen soulgrowth issues outpicturing into what we experience as our 3D life experiences....
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Hey Shadowflash
Vaguely. The phrase 'prior to incarnation' infers some form of nebulous existence
- obviously then a rhetorical question arises regarding the origin of 'the soul aka the self'
That's a fun and useful story
So 'soulgrowth plan' = karma
Some say a natal chart is a continuum describing 'past events' as well as 'present vehicle' and 'future events'
BobZemco
Well-known member
Souls do not exist. Nothing unreal exists. Anything real has mass and takes up space. A discussion on Free Will should focus on what is objective, and what can be quantified and qualified objectively, and not esoteric subjectivity.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Space itself is then either 'composed of mass' and/or 'a form of mass' - otherwise space is 'not real'
Such a discussion could well focus on what is objective
poyi
Premium Member
Well as a student of astrology...
Definitely the Wheel, our fate can be assessed by moving forward and backward and you can spine as many times as you wanted to play with it.
I only wish incarnation can be proven truth then we might find out if we did choose to be born this way.
I did have vivid dream of talking to God saying that in this life, I would like to learn how to be a woman, as wife and as mother. I had the dream when I was in primary school.
The Wheel of Fortune Card in Tarot some time being thought of as a Sewing Wheel. It symbolizes that human life as a thread to be sew and to be created but through the machine. This card itself is very Fateful and one has no control of the wheel due to the external factors those 3 women do the sewing and one MUST go through all stages of the wheel. We see that the wheel is inside a deep dark cave, appearing to be under the ground, isolated, three sadden faces women doing the sewing in the dark. Notice the background, we still see hope and grassland that represents life and freedom. But the widow is small and the wheel of life is separated from that freedom.
This is another version of the Wheel of Fortune. The wheel rotates up and down, as a whole to learn the full story of life to fulfill the utmost spiritual journey, one must go through the High, Middle and Low life. This is for the utmost benefit for the soul to go through all stages. While in this card, we see no external forces but still the restriction of the Wheel is still there. The background is a very clear, hopeful sky, openly, united and above the world. There is a high purpose showed in this card. An Angel she is completed with glory. Her eyes are blinded by a thread not seeing through the physical eyes, holding two golden cups, her wings golden in color with glory, her gown in red and green with life.
As a whole the high, middle and low life is all You as one. The highest realization to me is to realize that the suffering in others, you are also going through the sufferings at the same time. There is no differences between people. As a whole we are one organism, to survive we must relay on each other. We can choose to go through this Wheel of life in the cave or above the world.
Definitely the Wheel, our fate can be assessed by moving forward and backward and you can spine as many times as you wanted to play with it.
I only wish incarnation can be proven truth then we might find out if we did choose to be born this way.
I did have vivid dream of talking to God saying that in this life, I would like to learn how to be a woman, as wife and as mother. I had the dream when I was in primary school.
The Wheel of Fortune Card in Tarot some time being thought of as a Sewing Wheel. It symbolizes that human life as a thread to be sew and to be created but through the machine. This card itself is very Fateful and one has no control of the wheel due to the external factors those 3 women do the sewing and one MUST go through all stages of the wheel. We see that the wheel is inside a deep dark cave, appearing to be under the ground, isolated, three sadden faces women doing the sewing in the dark. Notice the background, we still see hope and grassland that represents life and freedom. But the widow is small and the wheel of life is separated from that freedom.
This is another version of the Wheel of Fortune. The wheel rotates up and down, as a whole to learn the full story of life to fulfill the utmost spiritual journey, one must go through the High, Middle and Low life. This is for the utmost benefit for the soul to go through all stages. While in this card, we see no external forces but still the restriction of the Wheel is still there. The background is a very clear, hopeful sky, openly, united and above the world. There is a high purpose showed in this card. An Angel she is completed with glory. Her eyes are blinded by a thread not seeing through the physical eyes, holding two golden cups, her wings golden in color with glory, her gown in red and green with life.
As a whole the high, middle and low life is all You as one. The highest realization to me is to realize that the suffering in others, you are also going through the sufferings at the same time. There is no differences between people. As a whole we are one organism, to survive we must relay on each other. We can choose to go through this Wheel of life in the cave or above the world.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Nothing unreal
poyi
Premium Member
My favorite book, The Little Prince, the best book for the child at heart. For those are interested can download the full version. The entire book explains why the child sees better than the adult who prefers facts, and why human suffers the way they suffering and lost their internal peace.
"Once when I was six years old I saw a magnificent picture in a book, called
True Stories from Nature, about the primeval forest. It was a picture of a boa
constrictor in the act of swallowing an animal. Here is a copy of the drawing.
In the book it said: “Boa constrictors swallow their prey whole, without
chewing it. After that they are not able to move, and they sleep through the
six months that they need for digestion.”
I pondered deeply, then, over the adventures of the jungle. And after some
work with a colored pencil I succeeded in making my first drawing. My Drawing
Number One. It looked like this:
I showed my masterpiece to the grown-ups, and asked them whether the
drawing frightened them.
But they answered: “Frighten? Why should any one be frightened by a
hat?”
My drawing was not a picture of a hat. It was a picture of a boa constrictor
digesting an elephant. But since the grown-ups were not able to understand it,
I made another drawing: I drew the inside of the boa constrictor, so that the
grown-ups could see it clearly. They always need to have things explained. My
Drawing Number Two looked like this....."
Here is the full PDF for download
http://cs.swan.ac.uk/~cswill/The_little_prince.pdf
"Once when I was six years old I saw a magnificent picture in a book, called
True Stories from Nature, about the primeval forest. It was a picture of a boa
constrictor in the act of swallowing an animal. Here is a copy of the drawing.
In the book it said: “Boa constrictors swallow their prey whole, without
chewing it. After that they are not able to move, and they sleep through the
six months that they need for digestion.”
I pondered deeply, then, over the adventures of the jungle. And after some
work with a colored pencil I succeeded in making my first drawing. My Drawing
Number One. It looked like this:
I showed my masterpiece to the grown-ups, and asked them whether the
drawing frightened them.
But they answered: “Frighten? Why should any one be frightened by a
hat?”
My drawing was not a picture of a hat. It was a picture of a boa constrictor
digesting an elephant. But since the grown-ups were not able to understand it,
I made another drawing: I drew the inside of the boa constrictor, so that the
grown-ups could see it clearly. They always need to have things explained. My
Drawing Number Two looked like this....."
Here is the full PDF for download
http://cs.swan.ac.uk/~cswill/The_little_prince.pdf
Cancer7
Account Closed
Many believe horary and natal astrology is powerful, so is free will.
I recently moved. When i became interested in this property, i casted a horary chart asking if I would get the house. I received many answers indicating "no". I was told I wouldnt like the property and or the landlord after viewing the home. When i viewed the home, I loved it!!! There was a delay with the approval, and i actually thought i would be denied based on the horary answers I received. I knew this home was perfect for me, and i had to have it. The price, location, and layout was what i needed. I was consistent with following up with the realtor, and i prayed!!!! Although horary said no, a higher power and my free will to continue showing interest in the property led to a approval!!!! I've been living here nearly two weeks now.
I also asked questions about conceiving a child this year, I dont recall the answers i received in horary. However, when i consider free will, if i want to conceive a baby this year, just have unprotected sex and the deed is done!!!
As far as natal charts. I dont know if marriage is indicated in my natal, Ive been told yes and no. In 2011, I was due to marry a guy that i had been dating since fall/winter 2010. He was thrilled. I was the best thing that ever happened to him, however, Id had better men in my life. He was a great guy, but ive had better and felt like id be settling. I exercised my free will, and called off the marriage!!!! I havent dated or had sex since 2011. However, i just entered into a dating relationship this month.
There are men that are dating for marriage. I want to marry, I would hope to encounter one of those men, or simply make my request known to the man I'm dating, and pray marriage occurs.
I believe horary and natal provides insite on certain topics, but I dont think it's GOSPEL (sound truth). Ive seen many, many, many readers disagree with one anothers readers. Horary causes confusion!
YOU have to ACT if you want ACTION!!!
YES I BELIEVE IN FREE WILL, AND IT IS INDEED POWERFUL!!!!!
I recently moved. When i became interested in this property, i casted a horary chart asking if I would get the house. I received many answers indicating "no". I was told I wouldnt like the property and or the landlord after viewing the home. When i viewed the home, I loved it!!! There was a delay with the approval, and i actually thought i would be denied based on the horary answers I received. I knew this home was perfect for me, and i had to have it. The price, location, and layout was what i needed. I was consistent with following up with the realtor, and i prayed!!!! Although horary said no, a higher power and my free will to continue showing interest in the property led to a approval!!!! I've been living here nearly two weeks now.
I also asked questions about conceiving a child this year, I dont recall the answers i received in horary. However, when i consider free will, if i want to conceive a baby this year, just have unprotected sex and the deed is done!!!
As far as natal charts. I dont know if marriage is indicated in my natal, Ive been told yes and no. In 2011, I was due to marry a guy that i had been dating since fall/winter 2010. He was thrilled. I was the best thing that ever happened to him, however, Id had better men in my life. He was a great guy, but ive had better and felt like id be settling. I exercised my free will, and called off the marriage!!!! I havent dated or had sex since 2011. However, i just entered into a dating relationship this month.
There are men that are dating for marriage. I want to marry, I would hope to encounter one of those men, or simply make my request known to the man I'm dating, and pray marriage occurs.
I believe horary and natal provides insite on certain topics, but I dont think it's GOSPEL (sound truth). Ive seen many, many, many readers disagree with one anothers readers. Horary causes confusion!
YOU have to ACT if you want ACTION!!!
YES I BELIEVE IN FREE WILL, AND IT IS INDEED POWERFUL!!!!!
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Cancer7
Account Closed
Another thing I've observed on this site is, individuals doubt in astrology. Many result to horary and natal readings for answers, but I've observed individuals state, they will pray and continue to seek God concerning the matter.
I believe this is a good!!! I believe God has the final say so!!! What this indicates to me is, the individuals know that astrology is simply science, and doesnt hold the final truth. They're inquiring for insight, not answers. I'm not attacking astrology (I'm here often), just stating my observation.
I believe this is a good!!! I believe God has the final say so!!! What this indicates to me is, the individuals know that astrology is simply science, and doesnt hold the final truth. They're inquiring for insight, not answers. I'm not attacking astrology (I'm here often), just stating my observation.
poyi
Premium Member
Another thing I've observed on this site is, individuals doubt in astrology. Many result to horary and natal readings for answers, but I've observed individuals state, they will pray and continue to seek God concerning the matter.
I believe this is a good!!! I believe God has the final say so!!! What this indicates to me is, the individuals know that astrology is simply science, and doesnt hold the final truth. They're inquiring for insight, not answers. I'm not attacking astrology (I'm here often), just stating my observation.
Yes indeed, this is a mystery to all of us.
The believers think that it does work, the reverse for the non believers. No one can give the definite answer.
I think that is exactly part of the game so we then being put into the situation to make the decision as our own Free Will.
Pretty much the same message of the Wheel of Fortune in two different versions. The Wheel is Fixed=The Fate is fixed but how you view it that is up to you.
But the second version of the Wheel has a final answer which is to be Whole. The first one is the eternal wheel that has no completion and no ending....
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BobZemco
Well-known member
Space itself is then either 'composed of mass' and/or 'a form of mass' - otherwise space is 'not real'
Of course Space is real...Space has mass.
Space is filled with Higgs Particles.
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1002.3966v3.pdf
Space can be "empty" or "not real" if, and only if, you have Zero Entropy and Zero Energy, which of course results in a Temperature of Zero.
You understand that is impossible, right? In other words, Zero Temperature means nothing at all exists.
http://www.physicsforums.com
Cancer7
Account Closed
As far as the wheel of fortune.....
My Pastor often says, God has a plan and purpose for your life. However, it is up to you to submit to the plan and purpose (free will).
My Pastor often says, God has a plan and purpose for your life. However, it is up to you to submit to the plan and purpose (free will).
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
tsmall
Premium Member
Le Petite Prince is also my favorite book, viewed from a different perspective.
When reading it, it is important to note that the Prince didn't learn about his realationship with the Rose until he traveled the galaxy and gained perspective. Because now we see through a glass, darkly...
poyi
Premium Member
Indeed the most influential book to me. The Sophia's World, is the second book, a philosophy book that opened up my eyes of the universe as well. Sophia broke out of the restrict of being a destined novel character into another plane of reality to become the writer of her own destiny. These two books are the foundation of my 9th house.
The little prince to me is the closest to the most beautiful thing in a format of written book. It was given by my math teacher he said I will love this book for life and he changed my life. His surname in Chinese means Camel lol his book lead me through desert a few times.
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Mandy
Well-known member
FYI, human consciousness cannot be quantified (is Sarah more conscious than Becky?) or qualified (see p-zombies; qualia). For those who think this is a small and silly consideration, should know that it is one of, if not the, world's biggest science and mathematics projects (i.e., unresolved) and anyone who claims to have an objective answer to the problem of consciousness wins a Nobel Prize.
The statement is illogical. The concept of free will is a construction by the human mind, which in and of itself is subjective. According to the above assertion (quoted), thus, free will is not an objective phenomenon. It therefore cannot be discussed objectively.
It does not mean that.
It means that warmth does not exist. That is all it means.
K is a measure of thermodynamics. Who said a soul/spirit needed thermodynamics to function?
Moreover, scientists have not even been able to experiment with 0K in order to apply this to an interaction with any other theory. With that said, theoretically, even at 0K, there is zero point energy.
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poyi
Premium Member
There is Dark energy scientists aware of but unable to measure and still no evidences, however many believed it existing. This is another Nobel Price topic.
"In the early 1990's, one thing was fairly certain about the expansion of the Universe. It might have enough energy density to stop its expansion and recollapse, it might have so little energy density that it would never stop expanding, but gravity was certain to slow the expansion as time went on. Granted, the slowing had not been observed, but, theoretically, the Universe had to slow......the expansion of the Universe has not been slowing due to gravity, as everyone thought, it has been accelerating. No one expected this, no one knew how to explain it. But something was causing it. "
http://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/what-is-dark-energy/
There is no absolute answer even in the most advance science. Who are we saying Only the Objective views worth mentioning about?
What is Objective answer anyway? Even White color is not absolutely white. White light in fact is the spectrum of many colors.
Well so far, for sure I know that no one is God here. And we can't even proof if God exist. I don't think anyone have the absolute answer and we are in fact just giving some subjective views from our life experiences.
Each of us just holding our subjective view based on Faith. And that is the Game.
"In the early 1990's, one thing was fairly certain about the expansion of the Universe. It might have enough energy density to stop its expansion and recollapse, it might have so little energy density that it would never stop expanding, but gravity was certain to slow the expansion as time went on. Granted, the slowing had not been observed, but, theoretically, the Universe had to slow......the expansion of the Universe has not been slowing due to gravity, as everyone thought, it has been accelerating. No one expected this, no one knew how to explain it. But something was causing it. "
http://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/what-is-dark-energy/
There is no absolute answer even in the most advance science. Who are we saying Only the Objective views worth mentioning about?
What is Objective answer anyway? Even White color is not absolutely white. White light in fact is the spectrum of many colors.
Well so far, for sure I know that no one is God here. And we can't even proof if God exist. I don't think anyone have the absolute answer and we are in fact just giving some subjective views from our life experiences.
Each of us just holding our subjective view based on Faith. And that is the Game.