Evil Charts?

Deneb with Saturn would have gone on for a week, or a month, or more. And then again when it retrograded.

The rest of them would have been active in charts for anyone born the same day as Manson.

Fixed stars can do it, but it's likely going to be that they are really prominent, like on the ASC or MC. And even then they are unlikely to do it without a LOT of support from planets. And you'd want to look at hermetic lots, as well as profections/directions (or whatever predictive techniques you use) that were active at the time of the murders, especially the first murder, if that's known.

Again, I don't say it cannot be done at all, just that it is extremely difficult to do.

deneb with saturn predicted his whole life from start to end, so how can you say it is only a temporary thing?

Interesting. Very interesting. I have to admit I never considered fixed stars, and unfortunately have no experience with them. I'd love it if someone more experienced than me could analyse a criminal's chart with them into consideration.

I didn't say it was temporary. I said it was the same in hundreds, thousands, of birth charts around the same time that Manson was born.

Does it describe all those people, too?

ohh i see what you are saying sorry.

Deneb with saturn describes a career criminal who dies in prison, plenty of those around so its possible.

No. If the pattern was that clear, it would have been noticed by now - and outside of astrological circles.

Good summary kx5, there has been an enormous amount of study and research into psychopathology and criminals. One researcher I would suggest you read up on is is Dr Robert Hare: http://www.hare.org/

His articles will highlight some of the stuff you have read in this thread.

A psychopath is not necessarily made from a poor childhood, generally its the school bully who becomes a psychopath. There has been a lot of research on bullies. It was once though they came from abused backgrounds, not so. Those abused people can become traumatised and develop PTSD and other psychological disorders, but they rarely become psychopaths.

The bullies who traumatised their victims at school then moved into employment and continued to bully up the corporate ladder. They got things done, could make budgets and sack staff because they didn't care about the impact on those they were responsible for.

They appeared intelligent and to have leaderships styles. But they often used the work of their colleagues to get ahead, they stepped on colleagues heads to get the next job, they mixed and drank and slept with their bosses to get the next promotion. Yes, bullies are a different kettle of fish to what we originally thought.

Bullies have great lives, they get what they want. Does that remind you of some leaders of companies that get away with murder maybe?

Noel Eastwood said:

Bullies have great lives, they get what they want. Does that remind you of some leaders of companies that get away with murder maybe?

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I've known that for a long, long time. So have the rest of us, if we're going to be honest. Look at the type of behaviour our societies promote. Look at how poverty has become the worst crime imaginable. In the Americas, it's pretty much a death sentence.

We seem to want a world ruled by bullies. So we've designed one to reward them. If they are our heroes, if they are what many people aspire to be, are they going to be seen as evil? I doubt it.

And that's going to make the astrology of the thing difficult, at best.

yes, some researchers and commentators say that the criminals in prisons are only the ones who got caught.

I worked in juvenile justice for a while and did a lot of research to write a report on mental health in the prison system. Its really the slower thinking ones who get caught, not the smart ones. They set their slower mates up so they escape being caught themselves.

Did you know that juvenile recidivism is about 99%? Once they end up in prison its darn hard for them to leave the system. Very sad.

Noel Eastwood said:

yes, some researchers and commentators say that the criminals in prisons are only the ones who got caught.

I worked in juvenile justice for a while and did a lot of research to write a report on mental health in the prison system. Its really the slower thinking ones who get caught, not the smart ones. They set their slower mates up so they escape being caught themselves.

Did you know that juvenile recidivism is about 99%? Once they end up in prison its darn hard for them to leave the system. Very sad.

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THE PRISON INDUSTRY
BIG BUSINESS
OR A NEW FORM OF SLAVERY? http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-pr...es-big-business-or-a-new-form-of-slavery/8289

JupiterASC, good quote, I had no idea it was like this in the US.

"There are approximately 2 million inmates in state, federal and private prisons throughout the country. According to California Prison Focus, “no other society in human history has imprisoned so many of its own citizens.” The figures show that the United States has locked up more people than any other country: a half million more than China, which has a population five times greater than the U.S. Statistics reveal that the United States holds 25% of the world’s prison population, but only 5% of the world’s people."

Noel Eastwood said:

JupiterASC, good quote, I had no idea it was like this in the US.

"There are approximately 2 million inmates in state, federal and private prisons throughout the country. According to California Prison Focus, “no other society in human history has imprisoned so many of its own citizens.” The figures show that the United States has locked up more people than any other country: a half million more than China, which has a population five times greater than the U.S. Statistics reveal that the United States holds 25% of the world’s prison population, but only 5% of the world’s people."

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PRISONERS BEING EXPLOITED AS SLAVES


“When you make prisons into a profit
you drive the need for incarceration
and
that is not in the public interest.”


'....Corporate America realized there was money to be made reinstating slavery
by replacing state run prisons
and operating them on a for-profit basis
exploiting the prisoners as slave labor.

Aided and abetted by politicians
eager to reduce, if not eliminate federal and state governments by privatizing their activities
and selling off their assets to reduce debt,
corporations such as Corrections Corporation of America (CCA)
began contracting with various states to house their prison inmates.


Amazingly, the corporations insisted on
- and many states agreed to -
so-called "LOCK-UP QUOTAS" http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/National_News_2/article_100937.shtml
requiring states to pay penalties
if they failed to send enough people to prison to keep the prisons full....'

if they failed to send enough people to prison to keep the prisons full....'

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wow, theres a good argument against private prisons

waybread said:

A cluster of ugly planets in the 4th house might indicate a difficult childhood sufficient to trigger sociopathic behaviour.

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Such as... Pluto, Mars, Saturn ? Which other weird combination ?
Why would you even think that the chart can predict the actions of a person ?
Neither aspect is good or bad; even if a person has a lot of squares/op, that does not make them bad, just prone to action. Same applies to people who have only fire/air in their chart; mind and action is not evil, although a little practicality [earth] would be helpful for meaningful actions.
The use of the aspects and of the whole config is made by the owner of the chart; any aspect can be used as good or bad, depending on the choice.
I do believe the chart is the destiny of each of us, but the actions done until the end of it do not depict influences from the stars, but the choice each of us makes. There is a psychological aspect of choices, astrology isn't the whole answer to this.
And let's not come up with excuses; there are a lot of people with hard childhood experience who did not choose to harm another, even though they have a lot of emotional and balance problems.

heidy26 said:

Such as... Pluto, Mars, Saturn ? Which other weird combination ?
Why would you even think that the chart can predict the actions of a person ?
Neither aspect is good or bad; even if a person has a lot of squares/op, that does not make them bad, just prone to action. Same applies to people who have only fire/air in their chart; mind and action is not evil, although a little practicality [earth] would be helpful for meaningful actions.
The use of the aspects and of the whole config is made by the owner of the chart; any aspect can be used as good or bad, depending on the choice.
I do believe the chart is the destiny of each of us, but the actions done until the end of it do not depict influences from the stars, but the choice each of us makes. There is a psychological aspect of choices, astrology isn't the whole answer to this.
And let's not come up with excuses; there are a lot of people with hard childhood experience who did not choose to harm another, even though they have a lot of emotional and balance problems.

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What we've been saying so far is that charts/aspects/configurations cause predispositions to make certain decisions. A chart by itself does never 'define' what you're going to do. It simply highlights that, if (in keeping with the aforementioned example) you've got a nasty 4th, then certain situations in your life will create favourable ground and 'opportunities' for a bad childhood and subsequent sociopathic behaviour; unless you as a person become conscious of this, and decide to avoid being affected by potentially bad family conditions and/or avoid exhibiting psychopathy.
Few people are ever aware of the tendencies described in their natal charts, and as such they go along with them. This is what confuses many people and makes them believe that a 'chart' defines their life and destiny. But even without a chart, few people ever truly understand and know themselves well enough to stop a developing negative behaviour dead in its tracks. Those who do have simply realised that their natural affinities and tendencies will have a negative impact on society or even themselves, and thus won't let them take over. That doesn't mean a chart was inaccurate in describing what could have happened if they hadn't understood.

As far as I know, throughout the course of this thread, we've considered this information given and have not refrained from these basic principles while expressing our opinions on the matter.
However, if you do disagree, feel free to correct me.

Except bad fourth houses and bad childhoods do not tend to create bullies and sociopaths.

Oddity said:

Except bad fourth houses and bad childhoods do not tend to create bullies and sociopaths.

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Not every time indeed.

Oddity said:

Except bad fourth houses and bad childhoods do not tend to create bullies and sociopaths.

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Exactly

kx5 said:

Not every time indeed.

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Not most times, by far. It was commonly believed that was the cause, I don't know if it is so much now. If you look at who the bullies in the world are, it's pretty obvious it's not about having had a bad childhood. More about being a bad child and being rewarded for it. And as this behaviour continues, people are more and more rewarded for it, because we idolise the ruthless, the conquerer, the selfish, and those who lack empathy.

Those really aren't the same qualities as come from being abused, despite psychology's various mental leaps trying to make it so, which is finally being recognised.

Bullies and sociopaths, if they're clever, tend to get what they want and have very good lives.

Noel Eastwood said:

JupiterASC, good quote, I had no idea it was like this in the US.

"There are approximately 2 million inmates in state, federal and private prisons throughout the country. According to California Prison Focus, “no other society in human history has imprisoned so many of its own citizens.” The figures show that the United States has locked up more people than any other country: a half million more than China, which has a population five times greater than the U.S. Statistics reveal that the United States holds 25% of the world’s prison population, but only 5% of the world’s people."

Click to expand...

PRIONERS ARE A CASH COW FOR THE RICH http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/30655-prisoners-are-a-cash-cow-for-the-rich#