The only really *real* things in astrology are the planets, lets face it - but then is something *not real* because we can't see it or touch it? That brings up all sorts of philosophical nightmares LOL.
The trans-neptunians are described as "energy points" out at the far flung reaches of the solar system, and some of them were identified before astronomers discovered Pluto. Uranian astrologers use them in combination with the traditional planets, in midpoint pictures and solar arc directions.
That's about as far as my knowledge of Uranian goes at the moment, waybread, so starting a thread might not be advisable.
I think we're in synch about a few things, actually Ruka. Looking at your chart, we share an MC
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On the contrary, I have made clear statements all along that the outer planets are a generational influence because:
(a)
the outer planets have only recently been discovered - in fact as far as Pluto is concerned it's mostly guesswork because Pluto is just entering the opposition to its discovery degree (22 Cancer) and there are no tried and tested delineations of Pluto in Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces, Aries, Taurus, Gemini - it's all guesswork and experimentation
I think it fair to point out to the reader that I did not ask the question and I did not initiate the thread
On the contrary, I have made clear statements all along that the outer planets are a generational influence because:
(a)
the outer planets have only recently been discovered - in fact as far as Pluto is concerned it's mostly guesswork because Pluto is just entering the opposition to its discovery degree (22 Cancer) and there are no tried and tested delineations of Pluto in Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces, Aries, Taurus, Gemini - it's all guesswork and experimentation
(b)
Uranus, Neptune and Pluto orbits of the sun are
Uranus 84 years
Neptune 168 years
Pluto 248 years
contrast these orbits with
Mercury 88 days
Venus 225 days
Mars 687 days
Jupiter 12 years
Saturn 30 years
of the entire world population, few experience a Uranus Return, none experience a Neptune Return, none experience a Pluto Return.
[I moved this discussion out of the Vertex thread, where it was going rapidly off-subject from what the OP asked, and onto a new thread devoted exclusively to outer planet discussion. - Moderator]
it's not guesswork at all and lots of lots of published astrologers use the modern planets to great effect. I simply think you are missing and overlooking valuable astrological material and would help in delinating charts..
Modern Astrology is entirely dependent upon Traditional/Ancient astrology upon which it is founded and without which it could not function. Whereas Traditional Astrology and Ancient Astrology are entirely independent of Modern Astrology. You are the one who is overlooking valuable astrological material that would help you in delineating charts, not I
As to whether "a Uranus, Neptune or Pluto return is irrelevant to using these planets" is easy to say because quite simply neither you nor anyone for that matter shall experience either a Neptune or a Pluto return
JupiterAscOriginally Posted by Kannon
The outer planets are both generational and personal. They are most personal when in more personal points or areas of the birth horoscope, but also when making very tight aspects to other planets..
Post some evidence for the statement you have made
Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are invisible to the naked eye and require a telescope to be viewed. Traditional Astrology is concerned with the seven visible planets and therefore takes no note of Uranus, Neptune or Pluto... thus - with regard to this particular matter in any event - there is no confusion for Traditional Astrologers...
As to whether "a Uranus, Neptune or Pluto return is irrelevant" is easy to say because quite simply neither you nor anyone for that matter shall experience either a Neptune or a Pluto return
...Okay, it's clear that everybody thinks what they're going to think and that isn't going to change. So obviously it makes more sense to just agree to disagree and leave the whole thing be, but the thread is still active - why?
Honestly, I think it's because a lot of people can't accept that people don't share their views on this, and that all this back-and-forth is essentially an attempt to browbeat those who don't into agree into coming over to their side and sharing their views. It's an ultimately pointless exercise, especially when both sides feel they have evidence supporting their stance, plus if anything all the arguing and hostility does is alienate people and push them further in the opposite direction, it's not going to make someone suddenly agree with you. For all the snark directed at me, I still include the outers in my charts and interpret them, so there you go.
