Planets in retrograde

Yes, Yoi. That information you are quoting comes from the book "Book of Retrogrades" by John McCormick, and it's a very interesting investigation that he did about this subject.

I am curious...Do you feel you have to work really hard to get anything you want? It's said that people who don't have retrogrades in their charts are those who have to work really hard for every thing they want to get in this life. I know only one person in that category (and now you) and he says he feels this way, even if he is a very sucessful person in every level.


Carole

Carole said:

Yes, Yoi. That information you are quoting comes from the book "Book of Retrogrades" by John McCormick, and it's a very interesting investigation that he did about this subject.

I am curious...Do you feel you have to work really hard to get anything you want? It's said that people who don't have retrogrades in their charts are those who have to work really hard for every thing they want to get in this life. I know only one person in that category (and now you) and he says he feels this way, even if he is a very sucessful person in every level.


Carole

Click to expand...

Actually I would say the exact opposite. People without retrogrades tend to be very driven (type A) people which means they are able and willing to work very hard for a goal but I wouldn't say they *have* to work hard for anything they get. When I was younger I would have said the same thing your friend did but really now that I think about it, I realize that rather than things coming too difficult for me, it was really the opposite. Things actually came very easily to me, even when I didn't really deserve it. However one thing about having no retrogrades is you are really involved with yourself with little self-reflection and don't really notice the outside world too much. Why it seemed so difficult was not because it really was but because you were always looking to the future with very high goals in mind. The more accurate statement is people without retrogrades are more willing to work very hard to get where they want to go in life because they can be so focused and so easily ignore the rest of the world.

I do think it is hard to separate the effects of direct/retrograde from other elements of your chart. For example I could say that having no retrogrades makes me heavily focused on my career goals and self-contained. But I also have Mars-Jupiter conjunction and the Moon and Pluto trining the MC in a quasi-grand trine which could also explain the above.

Instead of the common Mercury retrograde complaints that what they say is hard to understand, for me what I say *I* think is babbling (hey Mercury square MC) but apparently it makes perfect sense to everyone else and I am often complimented by very senior people about my insightfulness and wisdom. Apparently my babbling is not only eloquent but actually useful. This could be due to me having Mercury direct. But I also have Gemini ascendant and Moon, and Mercury conjunct Uranus sextile Saturn in Scorpio which could also explain my good communication skills.

Good social skills could be due to Venus direct. Yet at the same time I have Venus-trine-Jupiter and Venus-trine-Mars which should *also* lead to good social skills.

In my case at least I don't know of anything that can be attributed to having everything direct that can't be attributed to some other major elements in my chart.

I agree with Yoi about having no retrogrades as I have no retrogrades & relate to what you say. There is little reflection prior to action. And the inner pressure is go go fo it. Result can fee burnt out
As sometimes its like a rock going down a hill - once you get rolling its hard to stop even if its no longer valid to continue.
One seems to have to learn to review after the fact then integrate a response to try another way when a similar situation arises.
Some say that when your first planet goes retrograde by progression you get a psychological experiance of what its like to have a retrograde planet. Of course its not your natal planet but its a progressive experiance.
Track back in the ephemereous to your fist retrograde & see if you can recall any change in an inner level. Mine was when I started to study astrology & started to see my actions personality etc from a different pov

Natasha said:

I agree with Yoi about having no retrogrades as I have no retrogrades & relate to what you say. There is little reflection prior to action. And the inner pressure is go go fo it. Result can fee burnt out
As sometimes its like a rock going down a hill - once you get rolling its hard to stop even if its no longer valid to continue.
One seems to have to learn to review after the fact then integrate a response to try another way when a similar situation arises.
Some say that when your first planet goes retrograde by progression you get a psychological experiance of what its like to have a retrograde planet. Of course its not your natal planet but its a progressive experiance.
Track back in the ephemereous to your fist retrograde & see if you can recall any change in an inner level. Mine was when I started to study astrology & started to see my actions personality etc from a different pov

Click to expand...

Hi Natasha, I agree exactly with what you are saying. I always reflect *after* the fact. Believe I've tried to change that, but it just doesn't work.

I also agree with you about planets going retrograde in progressions. I currently have one planet retrograde by progression - Jupiter. It did coincide with a massive external event that literally changed me. I never reflected on things and my own actions before that. I was always focused on my goals. This event literally forced me open to consider the effects of my actions on other people and taught me the meaning of doubt. I think people should not underestimate just how self-contained and goal focused a person with no retrogrades can be. I think the all direct nature of my natal chart was made even more focused in my early years by the fact that for the first 16 years of my life over *half* of my solar returns had all the planets direct as well. All of the rest only had 1 planet retrograde except for one year with two retrogrades. I have to admit when I was younger I did not know the meaning of the word self-reflection and in many ways I was actually selfish. Fortunately I have Venus-trine-Mars and Venus-trine-Jupiter which meant that people still liked me despite that. OTOH this extreme focus and lack of self-doubt also allows you to achieve amazing things and reach very high goals.

I have to admit I still don't really understand retrogrades that well. None of of my personal planets will ever go retrograde, even by progression (OK Mercury will eventually when I'm about 90 years old, but I don't think it really matters at that point). Similarly I worked out my solar returns up to when I was 80 and retrogrades aren't as common as expected by average. For example in 80 years I will never once have a venus retrograde in a solar return chart. 15% of the solar returns have all direct and 30% have only one retrograde. That is double the average. Which I guess means some other poor sap is going to get a lot more than their fair share of retrogrades...All this means is I think I still have a difficult time understanding what having a retrograde really means.

Now that I think about it, I think that having no retrogrades can best be described as will to power. Throughout my life if I really wanted something I obtained it. If you give me a clear goal and it is something I really want I will obtain it as I will go after it with single-minded focus (yes, everyone get out of my way). This is not to mean that you can't feel doubt, feel stupid or feel socially inadequate or even depressed depending on the rest of your chart. Rather when you have a goal in mind, you are able to force your will over problems, whether external or internal, for at least the required period of time to achieve your goal. I think with fewer retrogrades there is enormous will. Which I guess makes sense in that everything in your chart is directed to going *forward* and if they all happen to point towards the same direction (the same goal) there is enormous personal will power. If you have a mix of retrograde and direct planets you have planets moving in different directions so it is difficult to get the same amount of power out of them if you try to aim them towards a single goal. This theory would raise the interesting prospect that if you have nearly all of your planets retrograde you would also have very strong personal will but not the same type of will to power as having one or zero retrogrades. It is interesting that in that work I cited people with 1 or zero retrogrades and people with lots of retrogrades are marked by the lack of need for other people and tend to be be very self-contained.

Very interesting to read Yoi & very insightful.
Erin Sullivan wrote a book on Retrograde Planets & its very interesting to read
Some equate having no retrograde planets with a similar feel to a new moon lunation in the natal chart or a Aries statement or 1st house statement.
Its an image of starting out before review.

I also have a new moon lunation although my moon is 35 degrees from my sun it does still fall into the new moon category.

No retrograde planets has a very out there feel & although some see it as similar to a first house placement, I wonder if it could have the visibility also of having planets conjunct the midheaven. Its very visible is what I am trying to suggest...
I realise that I can be very visible when I am 'out there'. It does not always equate to an intended visibleness tho - its more spontaneous than that so sometimes the visibility may not be welcome by the person. Especially if one has a rising sign like Scorpio or Capricorn.

deleted post.

as there is a discussion going on retrograde planets....i have 6 ret planets in my chart........mars conjucts saturn in libra(5th house)....i am a bit worried about this comjuction....as fifth house signifies progency .....does dis conj affect the progency in any way????

From what i have seen people with no planets in retrograde they are always charging ahead nothing gets in their way, they move forward. They move with the time. People with planets in retrograde they live in the past.
they may be aloof. but they have got lots of research power. They do their own research and are good at it. They are introverts. i have 6 planets in retro. i have met one person with 7 in retro, he was also very secretive, great guy but their agenda is hidden.

p.s. this is what i have seen in retrogrades

hey guys

this is just speculative

there is a theory that if your natal planet is retro is describes your previous life what you were doing or who you were

http://www.north-node.com/astrology-tutorials/retrogrades

Tik

Or if you see a planet retrograde in many family members it can indicate some image about a family dynamic.
Even tho I can connect to the idea of re-incarnation, I tend not to use it for answers in the astrological chart
Instead tend to look at the familial images of which the chart speaks

A retrograde planet seen in many family members of an image of that planet or its ruling sign or house under duress, indicates some images about the family dynasty imo.
It would not be as relevant for say Uranus Neptune or Pluto retrograde tho as they spend quite a deal of time retrograde.
But say you often see Mars retrograde in a females of a family. It could indicate a familial trend about how women in that family get what they want etc etc

My dad has 4 planets in retro, mom has 4, sister has

1 nd i have 6, wife has 0---so you figure

people with 0 planets in retro are progressing no stop atttude. kind of hard people. lol

p.s. tiks thanks for that link

TIK:
I have studied and read of this phenomena before and the site that you gave the description of Internalization. This is very true and can be a positive attribute for those that need to figure things out..

The one chart I like to look at is that of Einstein who had Ur-3rd Rx and his thoughts and genius of relativity he internally envisioned then setforth to the outer world.Having Me/SA 10th I think he had the reasoning ability to look at complex equations,but Ur gave him the internal reasoning to use them.

It is easier for me to see these things having a number of Rx planets.

On the suvject of Religion the person is not his own religion, but rather questioning all things having to do with it.He sets his own values as to belief and looks for others that can validate their own views.They do not choose to go about religion in the same respect as one having Ju Direct.They are rather unorthodox as too the way they worship or philosophize info.

Just some indepth insight that oterhs might be able to use.The site gave good general descriptions to the Rx effect.

Sa Rx is a whole other matter that Noel Tyl has written indepth study to .There are things I do not agree with him on ,but I can see that for some it fits as far as that effect.

I have Pl=Stationary Direct which allows mee to go deep into these things.

The problem with putting too much emphasis on retrograde planets is that all the outer planets (from Mars on out) are always retrograde when in opposition to the Sun.

For instance, when Mars reaches an aspect of trine to the Sun, ahead of it, it is very nearly time for it to "go backwards", and that retrograde motion continues until just before it is trine "behind the sun".

For each planet beyond Mars, this "switching point" happens earlier, closer and closer to square. Jupiter can trine the Sun in direct motion, but when the angle become a little wider, it is retrograde.

Saturn can only trine the Sun when it is retrograde. And this is true of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto.

A good example is grand trine coming up in April of 2008, on the 21st. The Sun at about 2 Taurus will trine Saturn at about 2 Virgo and Pluto at about 1 Capricorn. This is the only way trines to the Sun can happen. The outer planets other than Mars are ALWAYS retrograde when trine the Sun.

So any time a person is born when the Sun is even close to opposition to several of the outer planets, there are many retrogrades. This is especially common, for obvious reasons, when the outer planets are all clustered.

One example is July 12th-July 14th, 1986. The six outer planets were all retrograde, though some just barely. But the real important part, to me, is that Mercury was retrograde then too!

(Because Mercury and Venus are so close to the Sun, you can't tell from glancing at a chart whether or not they are retrograde, so it's a much more personal matter. But you can tell the others just by the distance from the Sun.)

Another thing that is not much discussed is the speed of the direct or retrograding planets.

Certainly there is a huge difference between a planet with direct motion that will retrograde in a few days and a planet that is still retrograde but about to go direct in a few days.

A good thing to keep in mind is that any outer planet is moving close to maximum speed in retrograde motion at opposition to the Sun. So when Mars, for instance, is approaching an opposition to the Sun, it is moving backwards at about maximum speed. That means that someone born December 23rd of this year will have a "progressed Saturn" a few degrees behind the natal position at age 70.

But someone born in October of 2006, with Moon conjunct Mars, will have progressed Mars about a sign and a half ahead at about age 70.

This "colors" all the planets from Mars out. When they are very close to the Sun at birth, they progress the most. At opposition to the Sun, the actually move backwards.

This may be a large part of where the idea of "repeating lessons" comes from.

Gaer

Hello Gear, well, that is most informative. I have printed it out, actually never realized all this:

likeSaturn can only trine the Sun when it is retrograde. And this is true of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto.

Click to expand...

Thank you for this post! Star.

gaer said:

The problem with putting too much emphasis on retrograde planets is that all the outer planets (from Mars on out) are always retrograde when in opposition to the Sun.

For instance, when Mars reaches an aspect of trine to the Sun, ahead of it, it is very nearly time for it to "go backwards", and that retrograde motion continues until just before it is trine "behind the sun".

For each planet beyond Mars, this "switching point" happens earlier, closer and closer to square. Jupiter can trine the Sun in direct motion, but when the angle become a little wider, it is retrograde.

Saturn can only trine the Sun when it is retrograde. And this is true of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto.

A good example is grand trine coming up in April of 2008, on the 21st. The Sun at about 2 Taurus will trine Saturn at about 2 Virgo and Pluto at about 1 Capricorn. This is the only way trines to the Sun can happen. The outer planets other than Mars are ALWAYS retrograde when trine the Sun.

So any time a person is born when the Sun is even close to opposition to several of the outer planets, there are many retrogrades. This is especially common, for obvious reasons, when the outer planets are all clustered.

One example is July 12th-July 14th, 1986. The six outer planets were all retrograde, though some just barely. But the real important part, to me, is that Mercury was retrograde then too!

(Because Mercury and Venus are so close to the Sun, you can't tell from glancing at a chart whether or not they are retrograde, so it's a much more personal matter. But you can tell the others just by the distance from the Sun.)

Another thing that is not much discussed is the speed of the direct or retrograding planets.

Certainly there is a huge difference between a planet with direct motion that will retrograde in a few days and a planet that is still retrograde but about to go direct in a few days.

A good thing to keep in mind is that any outer planet is moving close to maximum speed in retrograde motion at opposition to the Sun. So when Mars, for instance, is approaching an opposition to the Sun, it is moving backwards at about maximum speed. That means that someone born December 23rd of this year will have a "progressed Saturn" a few degrees behind the natal position at age 70.

But someone born in October of 2006, with Moon conjunct Mars, will have progressed Mars about a sign and a half ahead at about age 70.

This "colors" all the planets from Mars out. When they are very close to the Sun at birth, they progress the most. At opposition to the Sun, the actually move backwards.

This may be a large part of where the idea of "repeating lessons" comes from.

Gaer

Click to expand...

Excellent post Gaer! I don't usually learn that much on astrology boards but I did reading your post. I note that American astrologers especially seem to freak out at Mercury Retrograde, although not Venus R for some reason. Any thoughts on that?

wayne penner said:

Excellent post Gaer! I don't usually learn that much on astrology boards but I did reading your post. I note that American astrologers especially seem to freak out at Mercury Retrograde, although not Venus R for some reason. Any thoughts on that?

Click to expand...

I'm not sure. I did some careful thinking about retrograde planets because it is so strange to consider a grand trine involving the Sun as anything but fortunate, so the fact that it can't happen with the outer planets other than Mars unless they are retrograde seems especially important.

I THINK Venus is not as carefully observed because retrograde motion is much more rare. I believe it lasts just a bit more than a month. Venus was Rx from around July 27th to Sept 7th of this year, and I don't think that happens again until early March of 2009.

At any rate, unless I've miscalculated, I believe that if someone is born the day Venus goes Rx, s/he would have to live more than 70 years for progressed Venus to get back to where it started. I would not say that this is good or bad, positive or negative, but symbolically it seems to suggest that Rx for Venus, as well as Mercury, means intense "work" or "lessons" in the area represented by that planet and as shown by aspects to it.

I have no data to back this idea up, so it's just a thought.

Gaer

Hi Gear, I was just reading over this post of yours and saw what you read about the Sun going to be in trine 2° Taurus with Saturn 2° Virgo and Pluto 1° Capricorn.
I have my Mercury at 2° Taurus in exact square with Saturn at 2° Leo (in 9th) and Pluto (also in 9th, 11°) is the ruler of my Ascendant (29°Scorpio)
I wonder what this Grand Trine will do to my Mercury-Saturn square and my Ascendant. I will keep a close watch!!

Starlink

Hello All,

Just joined this group and retrograde planets fascinate me. I actually have 5 retrograde planets. Not counting Chiron and a few other other asteriods. But what about planets that are Stationary Retrograde?

I have Mercury stationary retrograde in Taurus at 3°45’53". It happens to conjunct Amor � 3°24’21" and Eros

what about chiron rx?

Hi everyone! I have a retrograde Mercury--and "afflicted" at that--opp. Moon and quincunx Saturn. The best way that I can understand my mental processes in light of Mercury's retrograde action, plus from what I've read, is that a retrograde planet causes its energy to turn inwards. In the cause of Mercury, retrograde people would normally be introverts. When confronted with facts or evidence that just don't seem to fall into place for them, they will work the data over and over again in their minds until some sort of resolution or understanding emerges.

I am pretty well educated and not at all shy about speaking out (!) so I haven't found a mercury retrograde to be a disadvantage.

The one retrograde planet that I think does cause difficulties for people, esp. for men, is a retrograde Mars. All that assertiveness, aggression, and energy gets turned upon oneself. Of course people with this natal placement may wish to correct me!

Best wishes, mountain