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Unread 05-20-2019, 09:02 PM
leomoon leomoon is offline
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Arizona
Posts: 59
Re: USA charts - the ultimate debate

Originally Posted by Radu View Post
I'm writing this post under the influence of the Moon-Uranus square. Please bear with me if this sounds too revolutionary. As it has been already stated recently, Mars' ingress in Gemini will actually fire up intellectual debates.

There're at least two main charts for the US - that are generally considered as most effective from an astrological point of view - both on Jyly 4, 1776, Philadelphia, PA, timezone LMT:
- the Sagittarius rising chart - 5:10 pm - the Sibley chart
- the Gemini rising chart - 2:13 am

I just read this text by Olivia Barclay:

"It has always been a puzzle to me that any astrologer could associate America with Sagittarius rather than Gemini. Ebenezer Sibley, not a good astrologer, seems to be the originator of such an idea. It is a country of few pedestrians, constant change of communication as on TV, short journeys by air or road. They play football with their arms and hands and demonstrated their solidarity by holding hands across the continent; also Geminian people pove to live high up (skyscrapers)."

My personal impression so far is that the Gemini rising chart is most descriptive for the American spirit and way of life, yet the Sagittarius rising chart is most accurate in terms of transits and progressions. Which one is it, then?

Finally, this duality or lack of consensus is SO descriptive for the mutable axis Gemini-Sagittarius. Gemini stands for multple items of the same kind (such as twins). In this case - charts.

Ok, I've had my say. Now, its your turn! :mrgreen:

I've always recommended and used the Sibley chart, however, after reading the other day Dane Rudyhar's argument against these commonly used charts for the U.S.A. I've now come to seriously considering the chart he is recommending.

He made a ton of really worthwhile and good points to re-consider our favorite choice for a U.S.A. founding chart. One he suggests, the ones we commonly use are really more the American people's psyche, emotions and thoughts, (sort of like in horary for the querant) to be considered - while his alternative chart, is founded more on the Constitution itself kind of set in concrete at this time. Please, if you have a trine to Uranus or consider yourselves Uranian as I do myself, with rather positive aspects to Uranus in Gemini, give this a hearing:

He said: "A merely local event, like what happened at Concord, cannot be considered a real expression of the united will to live of the Colonists.
Charts erected for July 2nd and July 4th 1776 can only refer to this united will to live - to the fundamental individuality — of the American people. People, not nation. There was no American national organism before 1789."

Last edited by leomoon; 05-20-2019 at 09:05 PM. Reason: italics added
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