Autism & Asperger's in natal chart

Hi,

I was wondering if autism or Asperger's syndrome can be seen from someone's natal chart. I haven't found any info on the web, but I vaguely remember someone mentioned that Pluto can indicate it...

I had to look up autism and Asperger's syndrome first then I googled up both terms along with the words medical astrology. I found nothing. Sorry.

But from the general info I got about these conditions, I seriously doubt that Pluto has anything to do with them. Aquarius and Uranus or Gemini and Mercury are more possbile rulers.

Of course I'm just guessing here. If you know exactly what systems of the body are inlvoved in autism and Asperger's syndrome, go to this thread:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=604

Hope I've been helpful.

CuriousGirl:

I found a site awhile ago with half a page on the topic of astrology and autism. If you watch soap operas at all (particularily All My Children), you'd know of Lily, a young autistic girl (the character on the soap, not the actress who portrays her). On the page just scroll down to where it says "Characters Alive". Hope this helps a bit!

Autism chart

Curious,

I came across this chart of an autistic person from a psychiatrist who was testing out astrology and wanted to know if the following chart had any astrological indications of autism in it:
January 11, 1994
8:00 AM
Goose Bay, Canada

From www.assistivetech.com/info-medicalterms.htm : "Children with autism have problems with social interaction, communication, imagination and behavior."

In my opinion, the chart is amazing because almost ALL the energy is in Capricorn (duty, structure) focused in the 1rst house (being), so the person is almost entirely focused on how to structure their energies of their being, and on how to behave the "right" way by themselves. Notice also that the only other houses focused on are 9th (expansion) and 10th (duty, also structure). Most of the chart has "easy connections" between the energies, indicating a person who expects life to be "easy". When problem come up (symbolized by planets transiting around the chart) the person retreats into their being as a "safe refuge".

Charting and interpreting,

Tim

Tim,

Oh my God. I have never seen a chart like this! I even added the extra objects on Astrodient to the Natal Chart and found that the asteriod Pallas (ability to recognize patterns, to arrange and re-arrange things) falls also in the 1st house (self) and in Pisces (illusions). Combined with the rest of the placements in this Chart, this Pallas is bound to increase the effect of the disease. The anit-Vertex is also in the first house but in Aquarius.

Also, Lillith is in Aries squaring a bunch of the 1st house planets. I do not know how to interpret Lilith but I know she is malefic and modified by the sign of self, which also cannot be good for this patient.

Do think treatment of such conditions as autism and Asperger's syndrome are indicated by the placements of the North Node and the Vertex? Afterall, they both show things and paths that we need to learn. Coming to think of it, they can show probable paths of healing for mental and psychological problems in general. Maybe Pluto and Chiron can help as well. I'm just thinking out loud here... What do you think?

Solutions?

Heart,

In this case, the North node (future goals) is focused in the 10th house (duty, also structure) and so this emphasis on structure "pulls" the person back into their obsession with structuring (Capricorn) their existence (1rst house). Achieving their goal actually can pull them deeper into their autism. The challenge is to come out into the world, but, since it is so much more comfortable and easier escaping from the world, the person will tend to escape.

This is only one chart, it is possible that in other, less challenging cases of autism, the North node might provide a "way out" of the problem.

Thinking about autism,

Tim

Thanks for the answers!
The Canadian child's chart is indeed amazing, I've never seen anything like this.. :shock:

Autism and Asperger's are specifically neurological conditions, and they manifest in a very wide spectrum. I have Asperger's, which is commonly considered a form of autism, although I do not (as too the man the condition is named for). Asperger's is often seen as a social developmental disorder, but in truth it's far more complex (and interesting) than that (and it's not necessarily a "disorder" either). Social difficulties arise due to fundamental differences in how the individual thinks, percieves, understands, deduces and recalls. People with Asperger's have a "high systematizing" brain incline to learning and retaining vast amounts of information, and tend ot develop a subconcious mental preference for object over people at a very early age. Normally Asperger's begins to show around 3 or 4. Hence why we often don't develop socially in the conventional way. In addition, people with Asperger's often have above avergae to genius IQ scores, superior verbal skills (despite their lack of social interest or activity) and problem solving skills, and may have savant-like talents or have a overriding obsession-like interest in very narrow or very unusual things. There is often an overemphasis on logic, rules and order, as teh indivudal often has difficulties coping with change and less orderly or consistant things like the "unwritten" laws of social interaction. Asperger's often is comorbid with other conditions such as Exective Function Disorder, OCD, depression, anemia, allergies, anxiety disorders, GI disorders and sensory hypersensitivities. Physical traits common (butnot universal) are an strangely shaped head (larger or wider than normal), strange or very intense looking eyes, weight extremes, and ambiguity due to underdevelopment of secondary sex traits or the person appears androgynous. People with Asperger's often feel like they are not of the same species as "neurotypical" people, and often feel very alienated by society. In many cases, we are bullied, abused (girls with Asperger's have a higher rate of molestation, for example), taken advantage of or harshly treated by others, who intutively sense we are "odd" or not as socially aware/adept as others. All of this of course only compounds our social difficulties.


While my chart doesn't seem extraordinary at first, there is a preponderence of both air and mutable, with a lot of bodies in Gemini, which falls on my MC. In addition to having Sun conjunct Mercury in gem in the 10th, I have Venus and several asteroids in Gemini. Furthermore, all my planets are part of one or more aspect configurations, and all those configs involve one or more of my planets in Gemini. Furthermore, Mercury is but my chart ruler (Virgo ASC) and prime dispositor, as well as being the only essentially dignitified planet and the most accidentally dignified as well.

There's an overwhelming emphasis on Gemini, Mercury and my MC area in my chart, but this is counterweighed by two singletons - Uranus and Neptune - and the fact that that these singeltons rule two of my personal planets - Auqa Mars and Pisces moon. So there's a strong Gemini theme (neurological), that's interwoven with a heavy-duty Uranian theme (cerebral, nonconformity, detachment) and a Neptunian undercurrent (extremism, hypersensitivity, alienation). Both Singletons aspect that gemini region so this all comes back to my MC (life path, social intergration, social enterprise). Granted this is not a blueprint for all Asperger's, but it does sum up very nicely how my Apsperger's manifests.

SInce both autism and Asperger's are neurological conditions that affect the most primal and fundamental functions of the brain, and because the brain is an individual as anything else about us, I am very sceptical that there's one broadsweeping indicator, or even a simple complexus of indicators for these conditions. I think it needs to be on a chart by chart basis, and certianly considering Mercury as a focal point would be a sensible strating point.

My older brother is severely autistic, so naturally I am very interested in this thread. If anyone is interested in analyzing his chart, here the URL:

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?...1fileLf7sI4-u1129157147;go.x=12;go.y=7&nhor=2

The thing that grabbed my attention right away was the sun (self) sitting on the Ascendent, almost quivering on the edge of expression. Other than that, he has more trines that I have in my own chart and half as many squares...but I suppose a chart of someone with his condition doesn't neccessarily need to display difficult aspects.

Brother's chart

Maverick,

I have been looking at the chart you kindly posted for us, looking for indications of:
"...problems with social interaction, communication, imagination and behavior..."

Your brother has quite a few:
- Saturn (duty, also restriction) opposite (energy is over-excited by) Venus (relationships); this indicates a feeling of restriction in social situations

- Saturn (duty, also restriction) square (energy needs to be combined with) Jupiter (expansion); this indicates a conflict between the urge to expand in life and a an urge to restrict, the result can be a continual life-tension (unless these two contrasting urges are understood and accepted)

- Pluto (transformation, also power, control) conjunct Descendant (others) opposite Sun (self-expression) focused in the 12th house (spirituality, also confusion) conjunct Ascendant (self); this person may continually feel controlled by others (unless they decide to control others), and may be confused about their identity and how to express themselves - the challenge is to take control of the situations with others around them

- Moon (home, also emotions) conjunct Capricorn (duty, also structure) modifying Mars (being, also action); Capricorn modifying Mars is Mars in the sign of its exaltation (very strong energy); while Cancer is Mars in its fall (very challenging energy). Since the Moon rules Cancer, Moon conjunct Mars is very similar to Cancer modify Moon; the result is the strong urge to take structured action reults in unpleasant emotional experiences (unless these two contrasting urges are understood and accepted)

- The "easiest" planet in the chart is Neptune (spirituality, also confusion) which is known for its ability to "dissolve" the energy around it. So Neptune sextile (energy goes easily with) Pluto "dissolves" Pluto energy, Neptune trine (energy goes very easily with) Ascendant "dissolves" Ascendant energy, and Neptune trine Sun "dissolves" Sun energy. The result is a dissolving of control, self, and self-expression

- Adding to this "dissolving" is Mercury (thinking, also daily work) focused in the 12th house (spirituality, also confusion), which dissolves and scatters the daily thinking

I keep thinking that the key to overcoming these challenges is Pluto conjunct Descendant. People with this aspect can control those around them...and be in control around others. However, the person has to realize that THEY are in control. Otherwise, they end up giving their control to others, who can use it against them.

I wish your brother power and strength in his life challenge.

Looking at charts,

Tim

Wow, this is such fascinating insight...unfortunately, my brother has virtually no verbal communication ability except for his repitition of individual words and phrases, and thus he would be unable to understand or verify any of it. However, he has a great sense of humor and was fiercely protective of me as a child...*reminices fondly*

I was surprised to find this topic on the forums, since I had been thinking of starting a similar one myself not too long ago. Hopefully, I'll be able to find some solace in the stars and in my belief that he chose his particular life path...it is almost unbearable for me to think of him as a victim of that fateful vaccination, after which I am told he never fully recovered.

Are there any indicators in his chart that may refer to this event? Mercury, perhaps, which shares the namesake of that poisonous toxin found in his childhoood vaccine? Perhaps I am being too simple-minded, but that substance had to gets its name from somewhere

Maverick

Transits could indicate this

Maverick,

I am glad that my musings have been of some use to you. I didn't know about the "fateful vaccination"...I was thinking that this was something he had from birth and was looking for it in the birth chart. It is possible that, with the challenges in the birth chart, once the vaccination threw him "out of balance" with himself, the result was an increase in the level of "dissolving". One indicator of possible transformational health experiences is Pluto (transformation) focused in the 6th house (daily work, also health). Also look to the transits which were going on the day he was vaccinated to find out more information.

Musing,

Tim

Hi, I've read your post and found it very interesting. I have Aspergers, my date of birth is 20/04/1989, time is 15:03 gmt and i was born in Manchester England. If this helps at all.

I once worked with a young man with Asperger's. Out of curiosity I looked at his chart. I can't remember the dates or anything, but what stuck out in his chart was a Uranus/Mercury/ and I believe Moon conjunction in his 3rd house. As it was, he was incredibly bright (as many with Asperger's are) and fairly high-function.

I'll see if I can trawl back through my memory, play with the chart functions on Astrodienst, and 'find' his chart again. It was interesting.

AG

I can't remember the dates or anything, but what stuck out in his chart was a Uranus/Mercury/ and I believe Moon conjunction in his 3rd house.'

That wouldn't surprise me. Was Saturn involved too?

This is a fascinating topic, though personally not an easy one to talk about.

It seems to be very 'fashionable' to look for autism, asperger's, ADD, you name it, every manner of neurology that might make it difficult to work smoothly in multinatonal companies that require immense abilities to multitask, overwork, be 'emotionally intelligent' ie be good at getting on with your colleagues, adept at cut-throat negotiaions and to stab colleagues in the back to scramble over the for the promotion, if necessary.

In other words, I wonder how much of this is not due to the recognition that these days you have to be quite a special person in order to fit into the new verson of 'little boxes.'

The terms are being constantly redefined, it seems to me, at one time, what is called 'autism' now might have been lumped under some of the schizophrenias at one times, especially in the case of children. I read the autobiogaphy of Donna Williams, for example, and a lot of her words could have come straight out of the mouth of some of R D Laing's patients - The Divided Self. So after reading William's book, I wondered how much autism was a condition of the soul - without trying to get into too deep mteaphysical waters there.

Williams also had a lot of physical health problems with digestion and blood sugar and I did wonder what was going on with her Moon - in fact, I was able to find out that she did have stressful aspects to her natal Moon.

However, Donna Williams is still anxious to dispel the lingering 'refrigerator mother' myths so beloved of Bettelheim and she emphasises that whilst her mother was less than ideal, in fact a kind, cloying one would have been much less easy to cope with.

There is speculation that the great C G himself may have started put his life quest from this basis - there are writers like Fordham who have suggested that from Jung's autobiography Memories, Dreams and Reflections that he may have suffered from so-called childhood schizophrenia. But as said, the labels do tend to get redefined these days.

Liz Greene does a case study on autism in her book The Astrology of Fate, so does Erin Sullivan in one of her books on the family, both see autism in terms of some kind of Atrean unfinished business within the family, especially Liz Greene, who enthusiastically quotes Bettelheim and implies the mother was at fault.

Yet Greene's speculations about autism being somehow to do with an unbearable sensitivuty in the face of life's challenges does recall Donna William's comments in some ways. The poor mother in Liz Greene's book meanwhile sounds as though she may have passed on nothing more than a compromised immune system to her unfortunate child - she certainly sounded like a sickly woman.

It is a painful subject for me, it is possible that autism has more to do with my own life than I thought. I sopped speaking at 18 months and had hoped that schooldays were behind me after graduating, but now remember tha I was criticised a great deal for avoiding eye contact. In fact, someone recently commented on it. My family, however, were not able to accept it (especially not if my mother were ever, however nicely, blamed for it) and when the issue got raised in the early 90's, it did not lead to lightbulb-type recognition, it was more like a death blow from a poison knife. I felt that they were trying to use this issue to attack and invalidate a lot of the more 'alternative' elements of my lifestyle, which as far as I was concerned was a choice, not due to any lack of social awareness.

I have a set of close midpoints involving Mercury, Saturn, Uranus, Moon and Midheaven by the way. With the Aries point on the IC. My parents' Saturns fall on my Moon and one of the first astrologers to see the full synastry there commented that 'I had to be relieved to have left home.'

It could be that it may not be possible to find any definitive aspects that may point to autism, if whatever causes it happens whilst the baby is still developing in the womb. I cannot speak for thoese theories about autism being down to measles in the gut.

My concern about the whole thing - and incidentally, anti-psychiatrists like Dorothy Rowe also join forces with Szász and Laing - is that the whole thing could simply be used to disenfranchise and marginalise individuals who may onky be manifesting certain tendencies that may exist in everyone to some degree - and isn't autism now said to be on a spectrum? Sadly, on another astrology forum, there was someone attacking and baiting another member where one accused the other of having asperger's. However, this individual did not like British people much either and I could comment there about his horrendoulsy afflicted Pluto rising.....

Lunar Pisces, I think if a child is suffering a lot at school, then they should be given the choice to leave that school or be educated at home rather than have to deal with the apish behaviour of ignorant peers in a bad school.

It woukld be interesting if the 'average' human being had evoleved more along the 'autistic' model rather than the version which sets the standards nowadays.

Hi

This really got my attention because my son is autistic, and he does have the mutable signs talked of sun, merc, ven, mh in gemini and the moon and pluto in sagitarius. He was also a full moon baby with sun in 10th and moon in 4th . I do wonder what will happens as he gets older but autism is a neurological disorder and there seems to be no form of treatment or cures in sight. Although it is speculated the cause is vaccinations I guess we will have to wait on a whistle blower to tell the truth but at the alarming rates of diagnosis we need answers fast because the amount of specialized education, therapies and assistance versus the resources available is tragic to say the least. His dob is June 14 2003 at 11:50 am Chicago, Illinois (USA)
for those of you who want to take a look and he does have Mercury square Uranus too for those who stated they beleive there is a link between the two .

Hi everyone!
I'm very interested in this subject also. I have the charts of a young man with autism/retardation caused by vaccinations..Arian: I thought you particularly might be interested in that chart.
I also have the chart of a young man officially diagnosed with Aspergers syndrome- Happy to share that chart also- if anyones interested.
Cheers, Lillyjgc
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/

Mercury as both the element and the planet does seem to be a big factor in this autism debate. There have been a growing list of articles implicating the element; http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=6843

As above so below so what is in the stars is reflected in the material existence. I also think about the clsong down of the sacral and throat chakras, and wonder about artistic work done with orange and blue and also with music corresponding to the colours. The link between creative generation and its expression are dampened down to a sever extend even though extensive abilities remain within the person. In wonder what people who work with auras "see" when aspergers and autism is concerned.

Love Light Flea

Hi everybody,

I'm new to the forum and I'm new to astrology. I'm very interested in thisthread because my son has Asperger syndrome. In the last days I analyzed his natal chart.
He has almost all planets below the horizon line, no planet in air sign (as far as I know air is also communication) and only one planet in a fire sign.
Mercury conjunct with the sun. Houses 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 11 are empty.

Since I'm new to astrology I'm not sure if it's normal to have so many empty houses and I heard different opinions regarding the conjunction Mercury-Sun.
I'm Italian and I read Morpurgo's books. She says that people with a conjunction Sun-Mercury are so self-absorbed that they don't listen to what other people are saying, which would certainly apply to my son.
But I also read in other books that this conjunction is not so bad ...

What do you think about it?

serena

I have heard that Mercury-Sun people can be self-absorbed too, but then it has to be common enough to have this aspect, as Mercury can only ever be 28 degrees away from the Sun. There might be other factors therefore in your son's chart at work, Serena.

And there is another question I do have to raise on this issue of 'finding' autism in the chart in ways that doe not simply boil down to 'wise after the event.' That is, I have heard it put forward that whatever 'causes' autism may in fact take place several months before the individual is born. In which case, it may be useless to keep looking in the birthchart for whatever aspects of configurations might 'cause' autism.

How does your son's autism manifest, anyway? I aks because it could well be that a few more years down the line, the definiotons of 'autism' could change. After all, many people formerly labelld as schizophrenic could now be recategorised as haing autism now.

I once read an autobiography by Donna Williams and a lot of her troubles sound absolutely identical to somwe of those described in R D Laing's first book, The Divided Self. However, Williams insists in the book that her conditon is as much physical and organic - primarily so, in fact - and her existential problems in the world were a bi-product of multiple food allergies and an abilites to process any kind of emotion.

I thought that all sounded like Moon problems to me rather than Mercury ones and if the birth info I found for her once was accurate, it does seem that she did have a natal Moon with some very challenging aspects.

But there are also people in wth world who have spectacularly 'afflicted' natal Moons who do not show any kind of autism.

It is certainly worth asking more questions about this, however. Maybe, the chart of a child or adult with autism can give answers about how to work through it, what kinds of intervention may help most - if you beleive wholeheartedly in the value of intervention, and tere are some indivduals who question whether or not this is a good idea in the case of something that might not even, necessarily be a pathology needing a 'cure.'

That might not apply to someone who is regularly harming themsaelves and is obviously expereincing internal torment and distress, of course.

Someone here mentioned that there was such a case where the chart showed no air. However, I have come across case studies of individuals supposedly with autism who altogether sound like people who have way too much air in their charts.