Sun-Pluto aspect

Raven, it's great to see you back!!

Flapjacks wrote:

As far as paternal side of things go, I don't know what it means to really have a father or feel supported by a male. That kind of relationship has always been somewhat mythical, although I've had good mentoring relationships with some men, and I love my partner, but it's not really the same thing. With authorities, it's always felt it more of a relationship of equals in many ways, or an imbalance of power... if only because I've never had the illusion of authority figures being great and wise, but more often troubled, lost and even pitiful in the case of my stepfather.

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Sun square Pluto, in my book, is a really difficult natal aspect. It can make it difficult for the natives to develop trust; in part because Pluto rules people who seem inherently mistrustful. An authority figure like a father may be domineering, even bullying; and something about him is not completely on the level. Primarily, he looks out for #1, and not the interests of the child or subordinate, except insofar as the child/student/or employee can support his own interests.

This isn't to say that the Plutonian "other" is objectively untrustworthy, but that he will come across this way to the native--who will have some evidence to support her mistrust. The Plutonian male seems authoritarian, bullying, under-handed, unchangeable, and somehow secretive or under-worldly.

Natally I have Pluto and Saturn opposite sun. Both are wide, but their midpoint is right on my sun. (Note that each planetary pair has both a near and far midpoint.)

I've read several threads on sun-Pluto, and came across only one person with Pluto opposite sun who claimed a good and trusting relationship with his father. Most of these relationships were truly dysfunctional.

Our challenge is to own our own Pluto natures. I was raised to be a well-behaved, good little girl, so the raw, brutal energies associated with Pluto seemed horrifying to me. Strangely, after I left home, I had bosses and co-workers who fit Pluto's mold. Some of them were out to destroy my career, and I had evidence to prove it.

But modern astrology teaches that we either (a) own the positive side of our planets, (b) exhibit the negative traits of our planets, or (c) disown unwanted planets' energies. The archetypes typified by the disowned planets become Jungian "shadow material," split off from our sense of self and projected into other people. Then we wonder why (in this instance) we attract Plutonian people to us! It is because the horoscope will "out" in one way or another.

The cure is to acknowledge that we are all of the planets in our chart, and to work with those parts of us that are also Plutonian. Thankfully, sun-Pluto can be translated as our ongoing stand for self (sun) transformation (Pluto.) We need not become the bully or mean drunk ourselves, but we have to look at how "the way out is the way through."

People with trines, sextiles, and certain conjunctions of sun-Pluto seem to have a more functional relationship with Pluto. I've come across some, however, who are truly into dominating other people. It's just that it goes well for them! Sun quintile Pluto people seem to be driven by enormous ambition.

I highly recommend Steven Forrest, The Book of Pluto.

On which house rules which parent:

Traditionally the 4th was associated with the father. It is the "house of home," but more in the sense of patrimony, from the days when property, inheritance, titles, and surnames passed through the male line. Sometimes the 4th meant both parents, but generally not just the mother.

It's a bit sexist, but the association with one's mother and the 10th is that the mother was construed as one's father's wife: the 7th house (of marriage) from the 4th.

Traditionally there wasn't a specific link between signs and houses by number: Cancer wasn't linked to the 4th house, for example. (See Deborah Houlding, Houses: Temples of the Sky.)

When modern astrologers began equating signs and houses by number, they also saw an affilitation between the sign's ruling planet/s and the house (in contrast to planetary joys by house, which were different.) If the 4th house was linked to Cancer and the moon ruled Cancer and the moon meant one's mother.... we can see how the flip-flop occurred.

I think it's best to consider that either the 4th or the 10th could symbolize either parent. In my chart, I'm pretty clear that the 4th house is a better match with my mother, and my 10th house is a better match with my father, but I think each chart should be considered individually.

In modern astrology, the 4th house also indicates early childhood conditioning; so a stressed 4th house (or ruler/s of the 4th) can indicate a difficult childhood.

To some astrologers, the sun indicates the father in a day birth; and Saturn, in a night birth. Venus indicates the mother in a day birth; and the moon, in a night birth. But today we are more apt to assign one's own identity to the sun, not the sun to the father.

SunW

Now it would be interesting to learn something about the Sun-Pluto aspects. I don't have it so I don't know how it works.

I want to ask those who have any major Sun-Pluto aspect, even if it is a positive aspect about its influence. I suppose the relationship with the father and with the father's family is very important and has a great influence on the native.

Probably the father or another person from the father's lineage has something to do with police, military, psychology, the secret service. Most probably, in the lineage of the father, there are events connected with murder, major crimes and other events where some crime or something else was the cause of death or great suffering for the relatives of the native.

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SunW, the sun by Traditional astrology and Medieval sources is the father if above the horizon, called Diurnal, a day horoscope, and represents one's father. If the Sun is below the earth, Nocturnal, Saturn becomes the father in a horoscope. This applies no matter if you are judging a nativity or a horary.

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~sueward/articles/friendship.pdf

In the following document Saturn in the nocturnal chart and is recognized as representing the father.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/astrology_saturn.html

Look under in the above document, 'Professions and types....', the last line in this section proclaims this concept of Saturn representing the Father in a Nocturnal horoscope.

However if the sun in a Diurnal or nocturnal chart is within 8.5 degrees it is called Combustion of the planet and this applies unless the moiety is less than 17 minutes in which case it becomes Cazimi that blesses the planet aspected, of which many Modern writers do not recognize.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/combust.html

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/dictionary/cazimi.php


ZadkielsGhost

Waybread

Traditionally the 4th was associated with the father. It is the "house of home," but more in the sense of patrimony, from the days when property, inheritance, titles, and surnames passed through the male line. Sometimes the 4th meant both parents, but generally not just the mother.

It's a bit sexist, but the association with one's mother and the 10th is that the mother was construed as one's father's wife: the 7th house (of marriage) from the 4th.

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Like many of us who diligently study astrology, I had the misfortune in this incarnation of studying the Moderns initially, unlike those born prior to 1700 who were just in the infancy stages of Modernism.

I too could Not see how the Moon ruling Cancer could be anything but the Mother of the 4th house and Saturn correlation with the 10th in it's identity with Capricorn, as contrary to Traditionalism and the Medieval teachings.

This is the problem in noting houses of parents:

http://www.horoscopeswithin.com/houses.php

http://vicdicara.wordpress.com/2010/06/09/mother-father-house-controversy/

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-3452.html

And this is basically the Traditionalist and close to the Medieval consensus:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/lilly_houses.html

Note William Lilly, who according to Zadkiel in An Introduction of Astrology, and claims Lilly's Natal astrology is Not as great as his Horary adeptness. Lilly if you note in the skyscript document says under the Fourth house that it is our Father and the second skyscript document says the Tenth is our Mother.

It can not be both or is not our art and science a little shaky and no wonder many doubt astrology as there is so much disagreement upon something so simple from our elders?

Waybread

Traditionally there wasn't a specific link between signs and houses by number: Cancer wasn't linked to the 4th house, for example. (See Deborah Houlding, Houses: Temples of the Sky.)

When modern astrologers began equating signs and houses by number, they also saw an affilitation between the sign's ruling planet/s and the house (in contrast to planetary joys by house, which were different.) If the 4th house was linked to Cancer and the moon ruled Cancer and the moon meant one's mother.... we can see how the flip-flop occurred.

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Exactly, or maybe the Modernes didn't study enough of the early data as it wasn't so readily available til the past couple of decades!

Waybread

I think it's best to consider that either the 4th or the 10th could symbolize either parent. In my chart, I'm pretty clear that the 4th house is a better match with my mother, and my 10th house is a better match with my father, but I think each chart should be considered individually.

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In all due respect, and I mean that sincerily, as every astrologer has made mistakes but one.

But if we as devout artists and celestial scientists take this attitude then we can equally say the 7th is our physical body, our early environment and personality as well. Then by this logic the 8th becomes our money as much as the 2nd, and inheritance or the goods of the other must be the 2nd also. And then following your above assessment our friends could be the 5th and our children the 11th.

Let's face it the Modrenes came after and didn't read enough pre-1700 lore nor much of the Ancients or how else could they have arrived at such an opinion?

And No, I'm only stating the long held controversy and being kind!

ZadkielsGhost

ZG, no need to pull any punches with me! I can handle it. I really like modern western astrology. It has its excesses and problems, to be sure, but then the traditional historical authors displayed theirs, as well. We have to be connoisseurs of astrological writing, regardless of its period or "school."

I think it's OK to go by a different set of rules in horary than in natal chart interpretation. Houses rule all kinds of different things in horary (like missing items) that wouldn't make much sense in a personality analysis.

You wrote:

But if we as devout artists and celestial scientists take this attitude then we can equally say the 7th is our physical body, our early environment and personality as well. Then by this logic the 8th becomes our money as much as the 2nd, and inheritance or the goods of the other must be the 2nd also. And then following your above assessment our friends could be the 5th and our children the 11th.

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Gosh, are we "celestial scientists"? The scientists would disagree! But surely you are aware of the horary practice of using turned or derived houses. This is how Mom got into the 10th house, as the 7th (wife) of the 4th (father.) Nobody suggests that we simply invert the chart for no reason. Our 7th house isn't our physical body, though it might say something about the body of our spouse.

We see a bit more of derived (turned) houses in modern astrology, where the 8th became the house of financial proceeds from the marriage (2nd from the 7th,) and aunts and uncles get assigned to various houses depending upon whether they are the sibling (3rd) of the father or mother.

This thread focuses on sun-Pluto relationships, and the traditional astrologers of the past didn't have anything to say about them.

This thread focuses on sun-Pluto relationships, and the traditional astrologers of the past didn't have anything to say about them.

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Hmmm, yup! My astrologer told me 12 years ago when she peered at my ex wife's chart, "Run Rabbit Run, Sun square Pluto" lol....I am not joking either.....So, I wonder if they would have said the same thing back in the day?

No offense to any lovely beings here who have this aspect, but if I had only listened to her advice???????? I can only ponder what this day would hold.

Since Pluto was discovered in 1930, the old traditional western astrologers wouldn't even have known about it. Some trads use it today as an extra data point, but would focus on dignities and debilities in your ex's chart.

I think it has to be a difficult natal aspect: transiting Pluto square sun was an extremely difficult time in my life, with transiting Pluto square Mars as next-worst. The Pluto-sun transiting square has been described as "feeling stripped of your skin," which was certainly my experience of it.

The natives have my sympathies!

waybread said:

Since Pluto was discovered in 1930, the old traditional western astrologers wouldn't even have known about it. Some trads use it today as an extra data point, but would focus on dignities and debilities in your ex's chart.

I think it has to be a difficult natal aspect: transiting Pluto square sun was an extremely difficult time in my life, with transiting Pluto square Mars as next-worst. The Pluto-sun transiting square has been described as "feeling stripped of your skin," which was certainly my experience of it.

The natives have my sympathies!

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Forgive my mischievousness....I can't say that my ex was or is a horrible person , and I can't say that I blame her current behavior on this one aspect, because that is just over simplifying something so intricate that deserves much greater contemplation employing further brevity. When my Astrologer told me this, I didn't listen anyway, because I loved her and cared about her and new that we all broken individuals who deserve love and patience. This is a very powerful aspect for certain...the sooner the native is made aware of how this may sub-consciously play out, the better. Either way; they will continue to encounter the reflections that this energy can culminate in its lower vibrational form until they are ready to truly surrender themselves to the understanding that we can not control anything with out consequence. The energy of Pluto will make certain of that.

Waybread

Traditionally the 4th was associated with the father. It is the "house of home," but more in the sense of patrimony, from the days when property, inheritance, titles, and surnames passed through the male line. Sometimes the 4th meant both parents, but generally not just the mother.

It's a bit sexist, but the association with one's mother and the 10th is that the mother was construed as one's father's wife: the 7th house (of marriage) from the 4th.

Traditionally there wasn't a specific link between signs and houses by number: Cancer wasn't linked to the 4th house, for example. (See Deborah Houlding, Houses: Temples of the Sky.)

When modern astrologers began equating signs and houses by number, they also saw an affilitation between the sign's ruling planet/s and the house (in contrast to planetary joys by house, which were different.) If the 4th house was linked to Cancer and the moon ruled Cancer and the moon meant one's mother.... we can see how the flip-flop occurred.

I think it's best to consider that either the 4th or the 10th could symbolize either parent. In my chart, I'm pretty clear that the 4th house is a better match with my mother, and my 10th house is a better match with my father, but I think each chart should be considered individually.

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As I note the Biblical verse you list at the end of your posts I can only conclude you are a practicing Christian as you list a writing that is supposedly written by Paul who was called Saul before his transformation from the Damascus Road blinding.

So sister in Christ, I must ask if I remember correctly that in your many posts I believe you said you were an Aquarius Sun and a Aqu Mid-Heaven. If I am confused on this forgive me as I like to be precise.

See Waybread, we all have our 'Sacred Lies', things we say in youth that we fully believe we will do. Like promises made at the altar in marriage and the two could not keep the vow as they could not see the events to come nor did they consult an horary artist upon their choice. Or a goal an athlete promises they shall accomplish but then the heavens deal out a tragedy like a severe auto accident; yet the dedicated athlete believed they would do what has been squelched.

The consensus here is that the Sun is always the father, yet I have stated in a diurnal horoscope, the Sun is above the horizon, it is the father. However if the Sun is below the earth Saturn represents the father.

And No, I'm not getting off the subject as the concept here that is being argued is the Sun is always the father when by past sources it is not.

Waybread, please do not be embarrassed by not knowing this fact of past writers, for this child learns continually how much he does Not know.

But if the sun in your nativity is in your natal 10th, or cjt you MC, then this contradicts the concept of the fourth being the father as well as gives your mother a Leo-like or sun traits; dominance and dramatic as well as executive ability. Now Lilly in CA, which he deals with horary, nativity, and much more in his document, he borrowed from others the 'five degree rule'. So if your sun happened to be in the 9th by five degrees and separating from the MC is it not felt on your Midheaven? And since the Sun's moiety is so wide even nine degrees separation still is in evidence as Sun cjt MC.

For example, and I'm not running off the road with this. If the Moon were cjt the IC, the Moon ruling one's mother, we would have a situation where the father, the fourth would be nurturing and so emotional providing the sign and aspects fit that way. And dear mother would take on more domestic qualities due the Moon being in the 4th.

I purposely waited till the greater benefic was being conjuncted by the Moon as is presently going down despite the waning Moon which is so dismal for planting much.

If I am incorrect or confused here about you MC position forgive me and I stand to be corrected.

This is why the Sun even if cjt Pluto, if under the earth does not hold the same strength as Saturn does in a nocturnal horoscope.


ZadkielsGhost

Zadkiel's Ghost--

I am not a Christian. I was never baptised, born into a secular post-Christian family. I concerted to Judaism in my 20s, but have been inactive in it for the past 20 years. However, I have studied Judaism and Christianity, I've read the NT through several times, and find those verses to be meaningful.

I have a 5th house sun, Mercury, and Venus in Aquarius, with Uranus in Gemini conjunct my MC, and Mercury and Uranus in mutual reception.

My Pluto and moon are in Leo in the 11th house (Placidus.) As a baby-boomer, all kinds of Aquarians, Scorpios, and Taureans were born with the sun at a hard angle to Pluto in Leo. I think this has a lot to do with the rebellion of the so-called Woodstock generation. Some of the lucky ones had Saturn in Leo or early Virgo in the mix, as well.

I have also studied some traditional western astrology, so I'm aware of how the father symbolism changes from the sun to Saturn in a night chart! However, the 4th house has ruled fathers in the sense of one's patrimony since the days of Hellenistic astrology (a particular interest of mine.) Also, I practice modern western astrology, in which the rules are somewhat different, and more apt to be based on experience than on a priori rules.

I also study western mythology. Interestingly, Dis Pater (Pater=father) was the earlier Roman name for the god Pluto. In some Hellenistic texts, the 4th house is simply called the house "under the earth."

For people with sun-Pluto oppositions, regardless of whether the sun is above or below the horizon, there seems usually to be a dysfunctional relationship with the father, based on several threads of this nature that I've followed over the past 7 years.

I won't comment on your delineation, as my sun is nowhere near my MC.

waybread said:

Raven, it's great to see you back!!

Flapjacks wrote:



Sun square Pluto, in my book, is a really difficult natal aspect. It can make it difficult for the natives to develop trust; in part because Pluto rules people who seem inherently mistrustful. An authority figure like a father may be domineering, even bullying; and something about him is not completely on the level. Primarily, he looks out for #1, and not the interests of the child or subordinate, except insofar as the child/student/or employee can support his own interests.

This isn't to say that the Plutonian "other" is objectively untrustworthy, but that he will come across this way to the native--who will have some evidence to support her mistrust. The Plutonian male seems authoritarian, bullying, under-handed, unchangeable, and somehow secretive or under-worldly.

Natally I have Pluto and Saturn opposite sun. Both are wide, but their midpoint is right on my sun. (Note that each planetary pair has both a near and far midpoint.)

I've read several threads on sun-Pluto, and came across only one person with Pluto opposite sun who claimed a good and trusting relationship with his father. Most of these relationships were truly dysfunctional.

Our challenge is to own our own Pluto natures. I was raised to be a well-behaved, good little girl, so the raw, brutal energies associated with Pluto seemed horrifying to me. Strangely, after I left home, I had bosses and co-workers who fit Pluto's mold. Some of them were out to destroy my career, and I had evidence to prove it.

But modern astrology teaches that we either (a) own the positive side of our planets, (b) exhibit the negative traits of our planets, or (c) disown unwanted planets' energies. The archetypes typified by the disowned planets become Jungian "shadow material," split off from our sense of self and projected into other people. Then we wonder why (in this instance) we attract Plutonian people to us! It is because the horoscope will "out" in one way or another.

The cure is to acknowledge that we are all of the planets in our chart, and to work with those parts of us that are also Plutonian. Thankfully, sun-Pluto can be translated as our ongoing stand for self (sun) transformation (Pluto.) We need not become the bully or mean drunk ourselves, but we have to look at how "the way out is the way through."

People with trines, sextiles, and certain conjunctions of sun-Pluto seem to have a more functional relationship with Pluto. I've come across some, however, who are truly into dominating other people. It's just that it goes well for them! Sun quintile Pluto people seem to be driven by enormous ambition.

I highly recommend Steven Forrest, The Book of Pluto.

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I have Sun quintile Pluto but don't know much about it. Do you know where I can find information regarding this aspect? It is true that I am very ambitious (username).

The quintile is often described as the "creative" aspect, but I think it also confers a lot of ambition to manifest that creativity in some way. When the sun is involved, the person's creative energy may focus on making something (quintile) of himself (sun.) Pluto carries a kind of ruthless, power dynamic with it, so I think the amibition side of the quintile is strengthened here.

I once read a chart for someone with Pluto quintile sun in the second house, and he confessed to being obsessed (Pluto) with becoming one of the richest (second house) people in the world.
If you google "quintile astrology" you will find a lot of articles but I like the treatment in this book: Harding and Harvey, Working With Astrology. It is in a section on the 5th harmonic.

I follow the blog online of a woman with a Libra Sun conjunct Pluto. I do not know her birth time, ascendant unknown.

She is very unusual, exceptionally intelligent and very outspoken in her "unusual" field as a champion for women's rights. She happens to be an "elite" escort, charging a ton of money and has been featured in a National Geographic documentary. She is very beautiful, runs everyday for fitness and hosts a blog with followers like me.

I don't know the story with her father, however she never mentions him so I assume somehow he is deceased. She alluded to a "horrible" incident with guns and refuses to be anywhere near one knowingly. I cannot help but surmise her father was killed by a bullet, but I am just guessing. Her mother is alive as well the rest of her family. She is single with no children.

She has written a graphic account of a dangerous client who controlled crashed his airplane while she was in it, she has suffered a severe traumatic brain injury as a result. She then tried to sue the client, a lawyer with shady connections to the underworld. She never got anywhere with her case and claims to now have her and her family's life threatened when she refused to stop posting about the whole scenario.

Come to think of it, she has complained a couple of times to being threatened by other men who have seriously hurt other escorts she knows. One of the men was a well known CEO and he eventually went to trial after too many women pressed abuse charges against him. She has made a point of refusing to keep quiet and has protested online, and has had many threats made against her to stop.

To me, she has all the makings of a Sun Pluto conjunction ( 7 and 9 degrees each). She also publishes her own books and is about the most well read person I have ever noticed. But, again that conjunction makes for her being an unknown person unless one follows her subject matter. Famous in that world and still considered a criminal by society. I, for one am one of her many followers and have nothing bad to say about her at all. Her life just reads like a conflict of power, control and dangerous threats when she ruffles too many feathers.

Carolus Optimus said:

Exact Sun-Pluto square reporting in!

This aspect has got my interest lately. It has generally an unpleasant effect in a variety of areas, the relationship with the father being one of them.

My Pluto is in Libra and I think it is badly placed in this Sign. This makes the experience worse.

I despised my father. He was a domineering, violent drunkard and I, even as a child didn't understand what my wonderful, caring, intelligent and educated mother was doing in such a relationship. I was just sixteen when one day I witnessed my father, in his usual fits of anger was about to hit my mother. I prevented it by beating him to a pulp. It was a quite brutal showdown that I had been expecting for some time and I prepared for it. He was rushed to hospital afterwards.

I told my mother she is divorced now and I am the one-man divorce court. The man won't live with her again. I collected his items, threw everything out of the house and I ordered the installation of a new door lock.

After my father recuperated he attacked me twice to take revenge on me and to get back to our family. On both occasions I beat him severely. At last he understood the situation and disappeared from our life, completely ruined.

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Can you post your chart with birth data and your dad's? . This story is such a dramatic example I would like to do synastry and composite for them.
Thanks, but I understand if you don't want to.

It can not be both or is not our art and science a little shaky and no wonder many doubt astrology as there is so much disagreement upon something so simple from our elders?

Hello Waybread,

I looked at the links you provided regarding the dispute about 4th/10th mother/father confusion and they did not resolve anyhting for me. Your concren that when we say that both of these houses are or can be either parent invalidates astrology, in my mind it does no such thing . It simply posits that astrology is both a science and an art where nuance and complexity is inherent, an any attempt at advancing the discipline must be open to reinterpreting older teachings. Every science reinterprets/redesigns older paradigms - we no longer teach that the Earth is the center of the solar system, we now use asteroids in interpretaion etc. It isn't that the older teachings were "wrong" but they were limited by what they could observe scientifically and what they could sense intuitively. Clearly our scientific knowledge has improved and expanded. Can I posit that intuitive abilities may be better than they were centuries ago? At first look this seems unlikely, even silly. But intuitive abilities are informed by what is in the conscious awareness as well as that which is not. I believe that as a species we are evolving. and thus it is that likely our abilities in all ares are improving (for many anyhow).

B at thelivingsky.wordpress.com

thelivingsky said:

Can I posit that intuitive abilities may be better than they were centuries ago? At first look this seems unlikely, even silly. But intuitive abilities are informed by what is in the conscious awareness as well as that which is not. I believe that as a species we are evolving. and thus it is that likely our abilities in all ares are improving (for many anyhow).

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Absolutely!! It is so refreshing to see what you have written here, livingsky. Without allowing space for one's intuition, astrology just becomes another cold set of beliefs about which people end up arguing. It is important to recognise the role of intuition in scientific discovery

waybread said:

The quintile is often described as the "creative" aspect, but I think it also confers a lot of ambition to manifest that creativity in some way. When the sun is involved, the person's creative energy may focus on making something (quintile) of himself (sun.) Pluto carries a kind of ruthless, power dynamic with it, so I think the amibition side of the quintile is strengthened here.

I once read a chart for someone with Pluto quintile sun in the second house, and he confessed to being obsessed (Pluto) with becoming one of the richest (second house) people in the world.
If you google "quintile astrology" you will find a lot of articles but I like the treatment in this book: Harding and Harvey, Working With Astrology. It is in a section on the 5th harmonic.

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Thank you. My Pluto is in the first house and Sun in 10th house. My life has always been centered around having a career.

Hello raven,

I just came across this great quote:

• [FONT=&quot]Fools[/FONT][FONT=&quot] ignore complexity. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Pragmatists[/FONT][FONT=&quot] suffer it. Some can avoid it. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Geniuses[/FONT][FONT=&quot] remove it. [/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Alan Perlis[/FONT][FONT=&quot], Epigrams in Programming.[/FONT]

Waybread

I have a 5th house sun, Mercury, and Venus in Aquarius, with Uranus in Gemini conjunct my MC, and Mercury and Uranus in mutual reception.

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If the Sun is in combustion(within 8.5 degrees) with Venus and Mercury I sort of understand the communication error on my part.

And as I understand, your Radical/Natal Uranus is on the MC, that may explain the abnormality of the tenth as mother. This is only an hypothesis and I know of no post 1700 authority that states such.

But the Modernistic writers did leave us a legacy of Keywords which I totally accept as many have adopted contrary to the pre-1700 authorities to my knowledge.

http://www.universalsky.com/Articles/Astrology/Planets/keywords_rulership/uranus_in_astrology.htm

http://www.drstandley.com/astrologycharts_planetaryglyphs.shtml#planet9

http://www.3horoscopes.com/astrology-planet-uranus.html

http://www.tumblr.com/search/uranus%20in%20astrology

http://www.mollysastrology.com/astrology-tutorials/uranus

http://www.trans4mind.com/personal_development/astrology/LearningAstrology/theplanets.htm#o8 Uranus

http://astrology.about.com/od/advancedastrology/p/Uranus.htm

Your horoscope Waybread, is definitely a testimony to the Deviation, Eccentric, Unpredictable, Unreliable, Rebellious, Unorthodox, Unexpected, Bizzarre, etc., of the nature of Uranus on the MC, and as Uranus oppositions the IC(fourth Cusp), one can see that your horoscope as the Modernistic planet Keywords have pointed out, your map defies tradition as far a the pre-1700 teachings on father and mother identity by 4th and 10th cusps.

And unless you have done a rectification on your MC, you know most did not have adequate birth times in your year of birth so that has to be considered.

I'm going to ask the Original Poster to consider the effects of Pluto cjt Sun in the context of a Diurnal horoscope and the negative effects of COMBUSTION(8.5 degrees) of Pluto by the Sun.

http://www.universalsky.com/Articles/Astrology/Planets/keywords_rulership/pluto_in_astrology.htm

I'm Not going to re-list those prior mentioned websites on Modernistic Keywords of Pluto as I'm sure the OP can access that easily.

But note combustion of Pluto:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/special-horary/combust.php

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/combust.html


http://www.astrovidya.com/combustion.html

http://www.horaryastrology.info/2010/08/conjunctions-with-sun.html

https://dhilipkumarek.wordpress.com/article/combustion-of-planets-the-effects-and-remedies/

Remember that astrologers noted Combustion prior to 1700, and then many Modernes dismissed the influence. Yet I note it's wrecking qualities upon a planet often, even if it Does Not destroy influences completely it has a definite alteration of a planet regardless of aspects.

ZadkielsGhost

ZG, it's not so helpful for you to guess about my chart. Mercury and Venus are not combust my sun. Sorry, but I don't find these guessing games to be useful. Since you didn't know either of my parents and I did, and since you haven't seen their charts and I have, I'll let overlook your efforts to force my 10th to fit Mom better than Dad. I am sensitive to traditional astrology delineations, but as a modern astrologer, I believe that the 4th and 10th house axis is one where some flexibility produces better results than treating it like a Procrustean Bed.

Uranus, as any other planet, traditional or modern, has to be considered in relation to its placement in the chart. With My Uranus angular, trine sun-Jupiter, sextile NN, and in mutual reception with Mercury, it is generally one of my happier planets. If you have a negative view of Uranus, it probably reflects something in your own horoscope.

My birth time is from a hospital record and official birth certificate. It may have been rounded slightly, but not to the extent of changing the basic structure of my chart. Rectification is a dodgy business, although some astrologers claim good success with certain software packages.

Perhaps we can get back to sun-Pluto?

FYI I post a slightly modified version of my chart. To protect my privacy I have not posted it using my exact birth data. This one is close enough to show my chart structure, however.

I might also mention that I've been studying astrology since ca. 1990, and reading a lot of charts on-line during the past seven years. I always have much to learn, but I feel increasingly comfortable with my delineations.

I am curious, however, ZG. How long have you been studying astrology and reading a lot of charts for people?