Who is he more attracted to ?

FreeWing

Well-known member
Hey everyone!

Long story short, me and this guy dated 5 years ago. It wasn't very long, I didn't love him so it didn't feel right to go forward... But the attraction has always been there. Nowadays, we're still great and close friends and the attraction that I feel for him, every now and then, gets stronger. Lately this is what's been happening, although I don't want to act upon it. I feel he is too attracted to me but don't think he will do something about it either.

So, a really close female friend of mine is also very close to him (well, we are all very close between us 3 lol). Every now and then they flirt, kind of in a friendly manner... He does this with me too but because we dated in the past it becomes somewhat more awkward and we're not so open about it lol. I know for a fact she is not interested in him, only enjoys the funny flirting of course... I don't think he is romantically interested in her either, but who knows.

Having said all of this lol, what I'd like to know is who is he more attracted to, I mean, is he being serious about his flirting with her ? Is he even being serious about his flirting with me ? lol Sorry, maybe this is a bit confusing.

So, I'll tell what I feel from this chart... Although I'm a real amateur and please only consider this as practice as I am many times wrong. :innocent:
Here goes!

I am both Jupiter in Taurus and the Moon in Aquarius.
He is Mercury in Leo.
I'm not too sure by this, but I think our friend would be represented by the significator of my 11th house ? That would make her Venus in Cancer.

The only aspect, related to this 4 planets, is Moon Opposing Mercury. I think Mercury is in fall, so not exactly in a comfortable place with me due to what happened in the past, perhaps. But he is indeed attracted to me as Mercury is exalted in Aquarius, which is the sign the Moon is.

I don't see any major other things here... Don't see any major aspects between them so maybe it is all just fun.

Would love to hear your opinions please :) Thank you!
 

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BobZemco

Well-known member
The only aspect, related to this 4 planets, is Moon Opposing Mercury.

That would be a very clear "he has zero interest in you."

I think Mercury is in fall, so not exactly in a comfortable place with me due to what happened in the past, perhaps.

That would be Mercury separating from a square with Jupiter.

But he is indeed attracted to me as Mercury is exalted in Aquarius, which is the sign the Moon is.

He is not attracted to you. Mercury is not exalted in Aquarius and an opposition with your Moon means "No." Seeing how Moon is an a Violent Human Sign and seeing how the opposition is on the 3rd/9th Axis, you should push the issue until you get into an argument with him and then he really hates you.

Mercury is Peregrine, Cadent, in Fall and Out-of-Sect so my question is why would you have any interest in him at all?
 

FreeWing

Well-known member
http://www.astrograph.com/learning-astrology/mercury.php
Second paragraph.

It's interesting that you say Mercury isn't exalted in Aquarius but, neverthless, it is in fall in Leo. I may be amateur but that isn't a sinonym for completelly ignorant in Astrology, as I've been studying it since I was very young. I don't know what your beliefs are, but they are certainly not mine.

Thank you for your time and opinion. I'd suggest you to use perhaps a different tone another time, I can only hope you understand why. I'll leave it there as I don't want to sound as rude. So respectfully thanks.
 

dourage

Well-known member
@FreeWing, I'm afraid that BobZemco is right in that Mercury is not exalted in Aquarius. You should check the table of essential dignities, here:http://www.skyscript.co.uk/essential_dignities.html.

Check out Aquarius and see that the sign has no exaltation.

@BobZemco, why would you say that an opposition means "no"? Can't it signify exactly what an opposition would signify, in my opinion, which is going from one extreme to the other, meaning from love to hate and vice versa? Of course, one would have to keep in mind the rest of the chart + what the significators are doing, but I mean the opposition in itself, as an aspect between two significators.

Also, Mercury is in Fall? Is there a planet that is in Fall when in Leo? If I check out that table in the link above it says that Saturn is in detriment in Leo but it lists no planet for the Fall of that particular sign...? Also, is there even a planet exalted in Aqua? Again, the table says no, but correct me if I'm wrong here.
 

virgo18

Well-known member
I dont think either the applying opposition will mean a completely NO.... But I think there are some obstacles and differences in your points of view.

I will say it will be a NO if planets are not aspected or if they are separating.

Mars in he's house makes me think the matters of he's 11th house are distracting him at this moment.
As he is in your 3 house he's interested in hanging out and talking to you like a friend.

By the way you are in a better position than him, having the north node in your own house. Whatever the situation is right now, it is not affecting you that much.
 
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misskitty

Well-known member
Bob is correct, and you would do well to pay attention to his methods. He may be blunt, but almost always right.

An opposition is always a negative, particularly when there is no reception. This chart is a flat out 'No way.'
 

misskitty

Well-known member
Yes. But not as bad as an opposition.

Trine- very positive, especially with reception.
Sextile- indifferent good, or positive with some effort
Square- negative but may happen if there is reception. No if no reception.
Opposition- most negative, especially without reception.

Basically, for the querent to get a positive outcome in a romance horary, you want a trine with perfect reception.
 

BobZemco

Well-known member
@BobZemco, why would you say that an opposition means "no"?

The outcome of an Horary Question revolves around Perfect Reception. Perfect Reception is by Sign, Exaltation, Triplicity AND Term or Triplicity AND Decan.

Reception is about "allowing." A Planet that receives another Planet is allowing that Planet to act. When you come into my home (Sign/Exaltation) you can eat all my food, drink all my beer, scratch up all my CDs, swim in my pool, shower and kick my dog around.

When Mars is in aspect with a Planet in Aries, Scorpio or Capricorn, that's what Mars is telling the Planet to do. Make yourself at home.

When Venus is in aspect with a Planet in Aries, Scorpio or Virgo, that would be like the person who just murdered all of your family and friends is now beating on your door telling you they want to come in and talk to you (you are Venus). Are you going to let them in? You'd be a fool, because they're probably going to kill you too.

When Saturn is in aspect with a Planet in Taurus, Virgo, Gemini, Scorpio, Sagittarius or Pisces, that would be you sitting in your car at a traffic light, and someone knocks on your window and wants you to give them a ride.

You might feel a little uncomfortable, then again, maybe you're cool with it. What you actually do will depend on how that person is "dressed" (the Planet's condition) and how safe you feel (Saturn's condition). Maybe you recognize them because they work in the same building you do, or live in the same apartment complex, so you've seen them around before.

Whether or not that Planet acts, and the extent to which it can act, is dependent on the Planet's condition and placement in the Chart.

Sextiles are "indifferent good." Sextiles are always between Signs of the same gender: Feminine-Feminine or Masculine-Masculine. It is the same with trines, except that trines are much more powerful than sextiles and trines represent unity, harmony and flow.

Simple deductive reasoning leads us to conclude that squares and oppositions are between Signs of different genders: Feminine-Masculine.

Modern Astrologers believe Traditional is sexist, racist and chauvinistic, so they prefer gender-neutral terms like "active" in lieu of Masculine, and "passive" rather than "Feminine."

It's still the same. Sextles/trines are between two active Signs or two passive Signs, and squares and oppositions are between active-passive Signs.

That's why oppositions and squares represent conflict and more so squares which indicate extreme enmity or hatred, especially if the Planet is making an aspect from a Sign of Detriment/Fall.

In other types of charts, squares and oppositions require reception to mitigate some of the hostility, but in Horary it requires Perfect Reception.

There are some Horary Questions in which a square or opposition with Perfect Reception can indicate a "Yes" answer, and also for those same Questions, a sextile or trine with no Reception can indicate a "Yes" answer.

Why?

It's the nature of the Question. In Job/Career Questions the relationship between an employer and an employee is inherently antagonistic. That's why squares and oppositions with Perfect Reception and sextles/trines without Perfect Reception indicate a "Yes" (but the Querent will have to persevere and work very hard to get what they want). Buying/Selling is another Question, because the relationship between buyers and sellers is antagonistic, right? I mean the person selling a home or car wants to make as much as they can, and you, the buyer, want to pay as little as you can, and that creates a conflict.

Who in their right mind would say that a marital relationship is inherently antagonistic? Only a nutter would say something like that (and then snivel and whine because they can't find romance).

Even when you have sextiles/trines with Perfect Reception in a Relationship Question, you have to look at the condition of the significators. Planets that are in Detriment/Fall, Peregrine, Retrograde, Slow, Cadent, Out-of-Sect and/or impeded indicate weak people who might even be evil malicious spiteful people.

So, sure, the Querent might get to date whomever, but in the end, the Querent will destroy the relationship because they are weak or evil.

A strong significator, one in Sign/Exaltation or their own Triplicity, Direct, Fast, in Hayz, Angular or Succedent, in aspect to a Benefic, indicates a strong person, who knows what they want and is acting out of goodness and they are capable of following through or seeing things through.

Can't it signify exactly what an opposition would signify, in my opinion, which is going from one extreme to the other, meaning from love to hate and vice versa?

No, personal opinions aren't relevant. Horary (and Traditional) Astrology works because it's based on rules that have been around for 7,000 years and repeatedly tested and repeatedly proven.

My interpretation of an opposition, or any aspect is not based on my opinion or beliefs. It's based on texts dating back 2,000 years, and those texts are copies older texts going back 5,000 years.

When people start changing the rules because they don't like them or don't understand them, it causes problems (and bad interpretations).

If you don't believe that ask Modern Noel Tyl. He's been eating Humble Crow Pie, because guess what? Contrary to what Modern Astrologers say, there is such a thing as Peregrine Planet, and it does make a difference if a Planet is Peregrine or not, and yes, Occidental Jupiter and Oriental Jupiter are two entirely different Jupiters that mean two different things. And yes, he uses those traditional concepts (Peregrine and Oriental/Occidental) in his Midheaven Extension Process for vocational aptitudes. Why? Because they work.

If you want to use his method of identifying careers, you have to learn the difference between Occidental Venus and Oriental Venus, and Saturn and Peregrine Saturn, and Peregrine Occidental Mars and Peregrine Oriental Mars, because those Planets all mean something different.

Eventually he'll get around to figuring out that Mars in Hayz and Mars Out-of-Sect are not the same Mars just as Venus in Hayz and Venus Out-of-Sect are not the same Venus and he'll have to publish a new edition to his book.

So we follow the rules because they work and if we bend or change the rules because we want to see something that isn't in the chart, then we fail in our interpretation.

Of course, one would have to keep in mind the rest of the chart + what the significators are doing, but I mean the opposition in itself, as an aspect between two significators.

Okay, did you look at the Moon?

Moon is Peregrine.
Moon is Cadent, but Moon Joys in 3rd House
Moon is Slow (Slow Moon = Retrograde Planet)
Moon is Decreasing in Light.
Moon and Mercury are Planetary Enemies
(and Jupiter is Peregrine)

Mercury currently receives Moon by Decan, a very weak form of Dignity, but when the aspect perfects, there will be no Reception which means Malefic Mercury impedes Moon.

What kind of person is Querent?

I'm going to cop out and claim to be a "gentleman" and not answer that.

And here you have two Planets in opposition that are Planetary Enemies, and there is no Reception at all, one is in poor condition and other also in poor condition being Peregrine and Out-of-Sect and Cadent.

And Moon is in a Violent Human Sign.

Assuming this opposition represented an obstacle, neither Planet has the strength or power to act, and so there is no way the obstacle can be overcome.

And see, here's where Reception and "allowing" come into play. Neither Planet is allowing the other to act.

Effectively, Mercury and Moon are rejecting each other.

Do you want to know the real story here?

Querent is jealous that Mercury is paying attention and flirting with her friend. Querent has no real interest in Mercury. She just wants to play mind games with her friend.

Also, Mercury is in Fall?

Modern Astrology says so, but then Modern Astrology also says Occidental/Oriental Planets don't matter. In any event, we totally ignore Modern Astrology when doing Horary interpretations.

There are several Signs that have no Exaltation Ruler: Gemini, Sagittarius, Aquarius, Scorpio and Leo.

The North Node is Exalted in Gemini and the South Node in Sagittarius, but those are Chart Points, not Planets.
 

tikana

Well-known member
hey Free

well there is not a single yes in this chart
1. Merc him is not connecting with your jupiter
2 so next thing is the moon .. moon in aqua not exactly your lovey dovey plus in cadent - troubling
moon will trine saturn but it is not merc.
3. mars and south node are in his 1st house NOT exactly great.
if you look at Lilly's CA 1st volume there is a comment regarding fixed and in cadent houses. when youhave that the person will not go unaided.
4 jupiter is weak in taurus it is in 5th house which makes me thing you really do want a relationship... him on other hand, very debateable.
5 see mars it is lord of your 5th in gemini - very barren neutral sign - another NO

sorry
T
 

dourage

Well-known member
BobZemco,

I really appreciate you having written out all of this. I wish I could take classes with you, I'm afraid that reading Lilly is something that I won't be able to do (English is my second language and though reading modern English is quite ok, the old style is very hard).

Not trying to "push" my opinion on anyone, just asking genuine questions because I know little, apparently, about ancient astrology.

Do you have any other recs for books to read aside from Lilly (you have been referring to him mostly, right? Or not?)

Thanks again, cheers.
 

mara21

Well-known member
Hi, I would like to ask something:
Since Mercury is under Jupiter terms, wouldn't it mean that he does have some feelings for her? And if he does, how strong are feelings when the planet is under terms of another planet? And Jupiter being in his 11th house, couldn't it be that he looks at her as a friend?
Thanks!
 

rafaella

Well-known member
The question was 'who he is more attracted to' not whether they will be in relationship....So for this question I'd only look at receptions.

And before anyone jumps at me, I use Frawley and always have, maybe because this is the reception method the previous moderators used when I first started reading charts, and I learned this from them.... I find Frawley to be very accurate in many of my own charts....

Now to the chart:

You are Jupiter, He is Mercury, the friend is Venus.

Mercury (the guy) is in term of Jupiter (You) But he was in the term of Venus (Friend) just recently, so it seems he liked her more in the past but you are his interest for now. Term is pretty weak though, its not love but just liking someone.

Now Frawley uses Sun - the co-significator of the man in the chart to show sexual side or the animal side of the man. Him being a man, Sun would be his animal side. And this makes it all very interesting!!!

Sun is in Cancer, and exalting Jupiter (you).... he is really sexually interested in you!! But he is also in term of Venus (his sexual side is attracted to your friend as well). but it looks like he is more sexually interested in you than her....

Venus though is coming close to the Sun and will eventually conjucnt - this could mean them both getting involved, but just sexually, not any relationship here, but this is not certain. And yeah, Venus (your friend) is not interested in him, she is not in any of his dignities...

Moon will eventually oppose Mercury, that could mean you and him falling out and ending friendship or having a fight in the future.... But this was not what you asked for, you asked about attraction and yes he is definitely sexually interested in you....lol

Hope this helps!
 

Serendipity

Well-known member
This seems like a question based on idle curiousity. Querent just wants to know who the quesited is more attracted to. I don't think horary works in this way.
 
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