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WarHawk 08-11-2011 07:13 PM

Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hey I just recently started learning about astrology, and It floored me how accurate it has been for me!

Anyways, I'm having problems with trust, other people, and even my own feelings sometimes. The way my mind works is I constantly need to understand everything, what people are saying and why they are saying it. I am someone who reads between the lines when I interact with others.

This I think can be a double-edged sword. I can detect things about people without them being aware. The liability is that I risk thinking things that are not the case, because what I percieve as intuition could simply just be paranoia. I'm very much on my own when I deal with emotions, I don't have an outlet like other people do.

Then I think when I pick up on something not right in a relationship I don't know wether or not to trust my own gut instincts and it can plague my mind for a long time. Any advice?

miquar 08-11-2011 09:12 PM

Re: Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
Hi this interests me as someone with Sun in Aquarius and Moon in Scorpio. I can relate to what you say about intuition, paranoia and trust.

Its interesting that you have Moon Mars and Pluto, all planets concerned with survival in one way or another (and Mars is the natural ruler of the ascendant too) in Scorpio, which means that these points have heightened awareness of the threat of being destroyed (as well as the promise of transformation and self-determination).

Then you have the much more socialised/cultured energies of Sun, Mercury, Saturn and Uranus in Sagittarius, which imbues these planets with a vision of a benevolent cosmos in which we can aspire to align our lives with higher realms. (Saturn is defensive and concerned with survival, but reacts mainly by establishing itself within society.) There's tension in that stellium too, but the planets also have things in common.

So that's quite an extreme split in some ways. Sagittarius is prone to splitting off from that which spoils its vision, so its good that you're in touch with your feelings. But it sounds like you could benefit from getting more in touch with them, and this could involve gradually opening up more to intimacy with carefully chosen others.

The smoke-screen tendencies of Scorpio combined with the strong Saturn and Uranus could make you want to be 'an island'. Chiron in the 8th (because it so close to the cusp) can also fear intimacy, and it opposes your stellium. In a way this echoes the different sides of your nature discussed above, because Chiron is aware of the chaotic and cruel nature of life, as is Pluto/Scorpio.

The split could be reflected in your parents and the relationship/lack of relationship they had with one another. Speculating here, but your father was perhaps a wanderer (in mind if not in body), and somewhat detached and philosophical. While your Mother was perhaps more expressive of her feelings and so more easily hurt, and also more down to earth and better at organising the mundane world (because of the Virgo MC and Venus in Capricorn).

By the way is that a rectified birth time. If so, what was the original information you were given about the time, if any, by relatives?

WarHawk 08-11-2011 09:44 PM

Re: Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by miquar (Post 306442)
Hi this interests me as someone with Sun in Aquarius and Moon in Scorpio. I can relate to what you say about intuition, paranoia and trust.

Its interesting that you have Moon Mars and Pluto, all planets concerned with survival in one way or another (and Mars is the natural ruler of the ascendant too) in Scorpio, which means that these points have heightened awareness of the threat of being destroyed (as well as the promise of transformation and self-determination).

Then you have the much more socialised/cultured energies of Sun, Mercury, Saturn and Uranus in Sagittarius, which imbues these planets with a vision of a benevolent cosmos in which we can aspire to align our lives with higher realms. (Saturn is defensive and concerned with survival, but reacts mainly by establishing itself within society.) There's tension in that stellium too, but the planets also have things in common.

So that's quite an extreme split in some ways. Sagittarius is prone to splitting off from that which spoils its vision, so its good that you're in touch with your feelings. But it sounds like you could benefit from getting more in touch with them, and this could involve gradually opening up more to intimacy with carefully chosen others.

The smoke-screen tendencies of Scorpio combined with the strong Saturn and Uranus could make you want to be 'an island'. Chiron in the 8th (because it so close to the cusp) can also fear intimacy, and it opposes your stellium. In a way this echoes the different sides of your nature discussed above, because Chiron is aware of the chaotic and cruel nature of life, as is Pluto/Scorpio.

The split could be reflected in your parents and the relationship/lack of relationship they had with one another. Speculating here, but your father was perhaps a wanderer (in mind if not in body), and somewhat detached and philosophical. While your Mother was perhaps more expressive of her feelings and so more easily hurt, and also more down to earth and better at organising the mundane world (because of the Virgo MC and Venus in Capricorn).

By the way is that a rectified birth time. If so, what was the original information you were given about the time, if any, by relatives?

I never met my real father, my step father who I've known since 4 is a taurus, and my faternal mother is aries. Your description here resonates a LOT and helps me understand things. Suffice to say they often do not get along, and have heated arguments. I think that gives me a certain amount of wariness in other relationships.

I think the problem is that I never know WHEN to trust the intuition I have. Sometimes I think it's spot on. For instance with friends I just have this sense that I know exactly what's going on with them, even though I am not present. It's like that feeling you get when you walk in the room and you can tell if you were the subject of conversation. And being able to predict behaviours and there outcomes. I am always surprised how right I can be. (anecdote; I predicted almost the exact results of the CDN federal election the day before, going against what many others predicted happening)

I think you are right about choosing carefully who I open up to, and I'm going to try doing more of that. It's just sometimes I can be very very cynical of people deep down. But I also desperately want to my cynicism proven wrong. I don't want to walk down the path of thinking negatively about people (even though it doesn't boil to the surface). I guess it also comes from the fact that I fear being proven right about that too.

yeah my life is full of catch-22's. :lol:

astrologer50 08-11-2011 09:50 PM

Re: Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
Quote:

Its interesting that you have Moon Mars and Pluto, all planets concerned with survival in one way or another (and Mars is the natural ruler of the ascendant too) in Scorpio, which means that these points have heightened awareness of the threat of being destroyed (as well as the promise of transformation and self-determination).
Mars is NOT the natural ruler of Scorpio, but in Traditional views yes it is. In modern astrology Pluto rules scorpio and is posited in 12th house

Scorpio is a very very private sign and with moon conj Asc makes you rather sensitive. that massive stellium in Saggi is very domineering in your chart.
stelliums in houses
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080418162943AA1TzLE
http://www.lunarliving.org/astrology/stellium_grandquintile.shtml
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33102
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects2.html
http://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/02/19/a-few-last-insights-into-stelliums-from-readers/

I use Equal House system (where each cusp is same as Ascendant) and am a modern astrologer. Lots of newcomers come into Astrology/forums and get a free chart from www.astro.com and the default ‘house system’ used is Placidus and think that’s just the norm and all there is……..BUT that is just the tip of the iceberg. You can change the default on astro.com in Extended Chart selection to Equal house and a few others if you wish to experiment…..

Now this stellium is within 5' of 2nd house cusp where it is said to have more effect in the next house alongn going anticlockwise.

Planets conjunct a house cusp
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=202304&postcount=7
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=205033#post205033
Planets conj House cusp
“Ascendant at 15’ Libra and Jupiter 13’ Libra. That would place Jupiter in the 12th house, right? But many thoughtful astrologers would read this as Jupiter being conjunction with Ascendant, and end up reading it as bringing its action to bear in the first house, rather than in the 12th.
This same idea would apply for each and every house cusp. If the planet is IN THE SAME SIGN as the sign on the next house cusp, and close enough to be CONJUNCT WITH that next house cusp, the action of the planet will be directed into oncoming house”
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/inhouses.html
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14887
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=125412&postcount=4
Ptolemy says the influence of the house begins to be felt 5° before the actual cusp.
http://www.astrologycom.com/houses.html

Now you are not a typical Saggi even this this stellium as the 'outers' saturn and uranus are playing a major part and infleunce over your sun/ego energies.

Now Sun conj Uranus will overshadowed Saggi themes and make you more Aquarius/uranus, and then at other times, sun conj Saturn makes you more Capricorn/Saturn - this will give you a lot of 'self discipline' and poss lack of rapport with father. now sun conj uranus adds impatience, ability to shock, be a rebel and also eccentricity...

Quote:

:sun::conjunct::saturn:
a child the native is painfully self‑aware and vulnerable. Just as the keynote for Jupiter aspects is optimism, so pessimism is the keynote for Saturn aspects. The conjunction is liable to make any outlook seem bleak and unpromising. the attitude of someone with a Sun‑Saturn conjunction is one of caution, of wanting to bet on certainties, and of expressing the worst. People with this aspect can be very disciplined and hard on themselves, working long hours and exercising patience when they must. They are practical, austere, grave, melancholy, self‑possessed, tenacious, and capable of carrying a ­considerable weight of responsibility.


From the book ‘Aspects and Personality’ by Karen Hamaker-Zondag

Quote:

All the same, the native is often too impatient to spend time developing ideas. Restlessness finds expression in many different areas; changes of occupation, of opinion, of lifestyle, etc. but one thing is always central; personal freedom, ­independence and individuality. Certainly, someone with a ­Sun‑Uranus conjunction can have ties, but then he must (in his own eyes anyway) enjoy freedom of movement within those ties and must be able to be himself. As soon as the ties start to tie him down, we may expect a shattering explosion.
From the book ‘Aspects and Personality’ by Karen Hamaker-Zondag


astrologer50 08-11-2011 10:12 PM

Re: Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
chart ruler pluto, stuck in 12th house suggests a need for private alone time, and conjunct mars suggests you were not allowed to express action or perhaps have temper tantrums, possibly by being sent to your room, thereby learning not to take action.

Quote:

Ruler of the First House in the Twelfth House
Your outlook on life can be brought into balance by spending some time alone to meditate and recharge your batteries.
Avoid becoming your own adversary by falling into the "woe is me" victim trap. Spiritual philosophies that go beyond traditional orthodox viewpoints can bring revealing insights into your life and the meaning of it all. You may identify somehow with large public institutions that provide a service to society, especially the helping professions.
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology...rships.htm#hr1

there is a noticeable lack of air element in your chart, which suggests 'sweeping statement syndrome' on occasions, just to get a reaction or to shock even.

Lack of elements
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18077
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/elements.html
http://www.astrology.aryabhatt.com/Astrology_Elements.asp
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/EmptyElement12.1.htm
http://www.astrologyclub.org/article.../inferior2.htm

http://www.nanceestar.com/elements.html

WarHawk 08-11-2011 11:59 PM

Re: Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
Thanks for the insightful responses! :) I do often spend a lot of time reflecting on things. But it is usually focused towards improving myself, and situations that happen to me. I think the best way of describing it would be, sorpio is my prevailing way of thinking about things deep inside, and the sagittarius inclination is how I deal with all the emotional turmoil. It's definitely a weird mix!

It's almost as if the scorpio side of me exists completely in my own mind, and naturally it can influence my decisions. But what shows on the surface I think is firmly in sagittarius.

I wonder what signs would be easier to open up to? Perhaps virgo? Leo?

bittermoon 08-12-2011 12:53 AM

Re: Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
Another Scorpio Moon here. I always trust my gut feelings. They never let me down. I also used to concern myself with what people were saying and why. I tried to make sense of the inconsistencies assuming that everybody always spoke the truth. I've grown up a little, since and no longer bother to make sense of other people :)

WarHawk 08-12-2011 02:19 AM

Re: Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
you see i'm one that sees inconsistencies in what's NOT said. I'm very aware that often times what someone says (or even believes of themselves) and the actions they take, can be two very different things.

It's something I am fully capable of dealing with, and moving past from, and at the end of the day I remain positive and focused. But I have not always been that way. I think up until very recently I had been in a dark place where I get locked up inside and withdraw for long periods of time and miss out on a lot of opportunities. I read something very interesting at astro.com that struck me today:

Quote:

Originally Posted by astro.com
End of January 2011 until beginning of December 2012: This influence signifies a period of very deep inward transformation that will be reflected in changed ideals, goals and many other aspects of your world view. You may also work harder than ever to bring about in reality an ideal that you have held for years. However, you will have to give up a great deal to accomplish this, and you will not receive much ego-reinforcement at the time, even if you are successful.

You will find it necessary to question very deeply many beliefs you have held...

[deleted quote over 100 words against forum rules - Moderator]

I think this is it EXACTLY what I am going through at this time. I am becoming much more myself, and understanding things about, and trusting myself a little more. I don't see myself as the same person from 6 months ago that's for sure! I know at the end of it all I will emerge a much more centred individual. The difficult part is know what sort of individuals I should become closer to, and what to look for.

bittermoon 08-12-2011 02:43 AM

Re: Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
What is NOT said, I include in what is said. Often more is said that way :)

miquar 08-12-2011 05:59 AM

Re: Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by astrologer50 (Post 306451)
Mars is NOT the natural ruler of Scorpio, but in Traditional views yes it is. In modern astrology Pluto rules scorpio and is posited in 12th house

I meant natural ruler in the sense that Mars rules Aries and therefore is the natural ruler of the first house, Aries being the first sign.

miquar 08-12-2011 06:10 AM

Re: Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
I have Moon in Scorpio with Cancer ascendant, and Pluto on my IC. I also get that thing where I walk into a room and can tell I've been talked about. Or someone will say something and I'll know exactly why they said it. I find myself being careful as a result as I can trace my own motivations that are the root of what I say - for example if I'm with someone and I'm getting a little bored and my mind starts to think about what I want to do afterwards, I might get the impulse to talk ask them what they're doing later. But I'll stop myself because that would feel rude because of the motivation behind it - I think most people have a sixth sense about this level of communication to some extent, but Scorpio types I guess would have more of it.

I have Mercury in the 8th house sesquiquadrate Pluto too, and Mercury square Saturn, whaich adds to the censoring of speech I think. I don't dislike this part of my chart at all, but I wonder what it would be like to have a less subterranean Moon and Mercury with which to connect with others.

C0rnholio 08-12-2011 06:41 AM

Re: Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
You might make a great police detective with your Scorpio Ascendant, Scorpio Moon, and strong 12th house planets, including Mars. Most of your instinctive hunches are probably accurate.

Pluto in the 12th house plays its transformational role best during those times when you are alone.

Your Sag stellium has a Saturn, which dampens the Sag enthusiasm and adds caution. I do not think there are simple shortcuts in dealing with the Saturn. You have to study it, understand it, and play by the rules.

Atvars 08-12-2011 07:06 AM

Re: Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
Moon in Scorpio often shows that is problem with mother.
Moon in scorpion is in second weakest sign- fallen - and it means that your realationship with mother- is your leakage of vitality.

Also it show that could be problem in relationship with girls they are also Moon. and it is hard to adapt everywhere.

Quite smart is return to relationship with mother ar fix them up.

astrologer50 08-12-2011 08:05 AM

Re: Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
I agree scorpio moon/Asc would make a good dective. My last husband was Saggi sun with scorpio moon and he was a detective for 12years (most of it propping up a bar) and let's not forget Saggi/9th house covers, the Law with other things of course....

WarHawk 08-12-2011 07:56 PM

Re: Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
yeah i have wanted to be a cop in the past, but I didn't like the restrictions on my freedom. In Canada at least, in order to become a detective you have to join the RCMP and they send you off somewhere remote for the first couple of years, plus you have to be a cop 100% of the time. There is really no time for yourself in that position.

right now I'm trying to get into sales. start at a car dealership, or some other place where the commission is good. I think It's something I would be well suited to. The ability to read people is something very valuable in this line of work. I am also taking a real estate course, and that is something very legal heavy and suited to my keen research abilities.

Now this is getting interesting. I'm going to plug in my parents birth data, maybe I can get some insights on that.

WarHawk 08-12-2011 08:12 PM

Re: Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
2 Attachment(s)
Ok here are my parents charts. I didn't know exact time of birth so I just put 12 noon, don't know if that will affect it much or not.

astrologer50 08-12-2011 09:13 PM

Re: Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
why have you posted these without a proper question? your parents are reflected in YOUR chart by sun/moon, 4th and 10th houses.

WarHawk 08-12-2011 11:30 PM

Re: Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by astrologer50 (Post 306639)
why have you posted these without a proper question? your parents are reflected in YOUR chart by sun/moon, 4th and 10th houses.

alright then disregard it. I'm just new to this that's all. :)

WarHawk 08-18-2011 03:41 AM

Re: Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
starting to feel very negative and even more cynical about things than usual. i wish i could find someway to be happy, or know who the right people are to trust. I find myself always getting into trouble with the people I meet, and I'm not happy with the way I feel treated by them. i guess my question is how can I best attain happiness given my chart reading? the more I read into my sign, the more bleak it seems (because everything i read is just so right about me:(). I like to think I can get along with anybody, and maybe that's my problem?

astrologer50 08-18-2011 07:33 AM

Re: Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
with age, maturity and experience, life will teach you balance and this is what you must acheive within yourself. Studying astrologer is a great form of psychology, but it's not going to change your life, YOU are. You are the captain of your ship and free will says it's upto you to steer your life, personality into the right direction. Doesn't matter if you foul up occasionally, we all do, the point here is to *learn* by mistakes and move......

miquar 08-18-2011 01:05 PM

Re: Sagittarius, moon in scorpio
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WarHawk (Post 307784)
I find myself always getting into trouble with the people I meet, and I'm not happy with the way I feel treated by them.

Hi again. I've had lots of experiences with people which have raised similar thoughts, especially in my twenties, but also in my thirties to some extent. I don't know what forces are at work in your inner and outer life obviously, but I 'll say something about what has occurred to me about my experiences.

I have Moon in Scorpio (ruling cancer ASC), Pluto on the IC and Sun in the 8th, by the way. And also strong Aquarian streak, including Sun, and this part of me also seems to expect to get along with everyone.

I think it partly has been a tendency to end up in encounters with other Scorpio types - as house-mates and co-parents mostly, and also a landlady who I used to count as a good friend until she lost the plot! When I look back at these encounters I can see how my own control issues and paranoid feelings played a large part in the disputes that arose. I have a very generous landlord now, but still I feel my gut wrench when I see his name come up as a call or message on my phone, because I just expect the worse. I guess Pluto's placement in the 4th has a lot to do with this. Incidentally, my Scorpio Moon is in the 5th house of children, which perhaps reflects to some extent the power struggles with the co-parents of my two children.

I think its very difficult to handle these situations fairly when in the middle of them. Pluto's destroy or be destroyed perspective kicks in and all reason goes out the window. Part of the difficulty I think is that Pluto/Scorpio is also about necessary transformation - the purging of hypocrisy and complacency - so in this sense there is some rightness and some necessity in any power struggle. But of course the flip side of this is that we would generally rather transform something or somebody else rather than surrender the outmoded part of oneself that needs to be destroyed as part of one's evolution.

Robert Hand once said something like 'Do what you can ethically to change a situation and if that fails just remove yourself from it.' He was addressing Plutonian power struggles.

A prominent Scorpio myth is that of Herecles, who has to kneel before the Hydra in order to lift it into the sunlight so that it will perish. I think as Scorpio types the best we can do is to keep asking 'Which part of myself am i being asked to surrender?' This can feel like being destroyed or humiliated, but it is actually a step to greater self-determination and power. Its like when a weak animal dies and as a result the species becomes more viable because the weak gene won't be reproduced.

And this reminds me of another facet of Pluto which is important for us Pluto type to remember, I feel - that Pluto is a collective process. This process is not ultimately concerned with the survival of any individual, but with the evolution of the expression of life itself. It isn't even concerned with the survival of humanity - kill or cure, its all the same to Pluto, as long as evolution doesn't grind to a halt.

A consequence of this is that Plutonian types are in touch with the dark side of human nature generally - not just their own individual natures. Jung said that those that behave in socially or morally outrageous ways are expressing that which society has shunned in favour of civility and pretence. Being in touch with this collective dark side can add to the feelings of alienation often experienced by Pluto types. Whether we channel Pluto's energy in a socially constructive or a barbaric manner is, again, of no concern to the Pluto archetype itself - only that the pond of life be dredged periodically.

Finally, a quote from Liz Greene about Sun in Scorpio which I think fits all Scorpio types: 'The Scorpio must learn to love and integrate his[/her] own darkness so that [s/]he can heal the darkness around him[/her].' (from Relating)

Sorry for the long post - it was helping me to get my thoughts together as I wrote.


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