Originally Posted by astro.teacher (Post 38850)

I apologize for going off topic here but Arian, there is one method which I dont have on my website which can be used for finding the sign of the Ascendant. Its primarily used in Horary Astrology in an attempt to make sure the chart is fit to be judged but it works just as well for Nativities. To verify your Ascendant, you simply look to the place on your body that your Ascendant rules and if you have a mark (specifically a birth mark or a large mole) then you can be confident that your Ascendant is correct. This mark is the largest mark on your body. If your Ascendant is Aries for example, you will have a significantly sized mole or birthmark on your face or head (which may be hard to see because it can be under your hair, I believe (extreme) freckles are also considered for this mark as well). If it is Piscean the you will have that mark on your foot. Its fairly simple and used to make sure Horary chart Ascendants describe the Querent. I know you have expressed concern over your exact Ascendant prior to this so I thought I would mention this as it came to me. Try it and see if you can find that mark. Again, sorry for going off topic.

Originally Posted by Ex Parrot (Post 592081)

i realise this is an old thread, but it is very interesting.

Based on my own experience, I would say ascendant cusps definitely "count".

Regarding the birth marks (fascinating!), I have one just above my buttocks, at the base of my spine.

But I also have several (very small) moles all over my body, including one on my face.

What do you make of that?


P.S. I just checked: my main birth mark would correspond to Libra. Which is interesting because my rising sign's transits actually correspond to Libra ("officially" it is late Virgo).
I am still unsure about the possible meaning of the small moles on my body and face, though.
And what about those people who have many moles?

Originally Posted by dr. farr (Post 311413)

Cusps:

Today
and for the past thousand years or so
we define cusps as "borders" (coasts),
but that is not the original meaning of the word "cusp":
it means "point"
such as cuspal teeth (bicuspids)
and the point of a sword
-so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something,
and in astrology originally the "cusp" of the house meant its "point";
now, when quadrant systems were developed,
this "point" of the house came to mean its "beginning",
which later came to mean its "border",
ie,
the "border" between one house and the other.
And later astrology also began using these "borders" (cusps)
for various prognostic applications
(Charles Carter came to believe that, for timing of events,
the "cusps" of the Campanus house system gave the best results,
among the various quadrant house systems)


But now notice this:
in whole sign the cusps are NOT the 0 degree "borders" of sign/houses at all,
and never were so regarded!

In whole sign, the "cusp" retained its original meaning,
not as a "border"
but rather as A POINT
-and that POINT (cusp) for EACH house,
was the sensitive point of that house,
viz,
the sensitive point in whole sign houses
-each house-
that is the "cusp" of each house
-is a direct projection from the ascending degree.


Example:
-the ascending degree of a chart is 18 Taurus:
what are the house cusps
(sensitive points, original meaning of the word "cusp")
in the whole sign houses of this chart?

Cusp of 1st house = 18 Taurus
Cusp of 2nd house = 18 Gemini
Cusp of 3rd house = 18 Cancer
Cusp of 4th house = 18 Leo
Cusp of 5th house = 18 Virgo
Cusp of 6th house = 18 Libra
Cusp of 7th house = 18 Scorpio
Cusp of 8th house = 18 Sagittarius
Cusp of 9th house = 18 Capricorn
Cusp of 10th house = 18 Aquarius
Cusp of 11th house = 18 Pisces
Cusp of 12th house = 18 Aries

Now it is these "cusps"
(sensitive degrees, original meaning of the word "cusp" as a "point")
that are
(and were)
used for progressions, timing of events, etc,
and the fact is that they work for these purposes, quite well
(in expert hands)

Whole sign does not use the BORDERS between houses
(always 0 degree of any sign) for anything,
but it DOES use "cusps"
(points in the house, projected from the exact ascending degree)
for timing (and other) delineative purposes.


Whole sign suddenly vanished
(both in the West and in Vedic astrology)
during the same period of time
-ie, late 8th to early 9th century-
this sudden disappearance suggests a sudden turn in astrological thinking and practices,
rather than a gradual supplanting of a less effective traditional method (whole sign)
by a new and more effective method (rheotrius/alchabitius in the West,
and
the closely related to whole sign Equal house, in Vedic astrology)


I quite agree with Waybread in the statement, "so what?" (if old time astrologers did or didn't do something)
For me, there is only 1 reason I switched to whole sign
-it worked better
(FOR ME)
I could care less if it were the oldest house system
(which it is)
or whether it was invented by Badda Bing at Barney's Beanery in Bayonne, 10 years ago:
only things I consider are:

-does it seem to make sense?
-does it "taste good" to me
(ie, does it "feel right" to me)
-and, if yes to the above, does it work
(producing delineations and predicitions)
better than what I have previously been doing?

Well, whole sign did all that, for me, so I switched;
but I am not going to try to convince anyone of anything about it,
except for beginners
-to you who might just be starting out, I would say:
try whole sign first, and see how well it might work for you...

Originally Posted by Frisiangal (Post 38906)

Hi Astro.teacher,
Ascendant marks is something I have never heard of before, apart from 'the general appearance' idea. Does the signifance of a mark refer specifically to a birth mark only or can it also refer to a scar received in life? I happen to know my Ascending sign but it doesn't comply with a small birth mark on the back of my lower right arm.... Gemini area? Yet I have a l-o-n-g scar across the area ruled by my rising sign, as a result of an operation. But I do have Mars, ruler 8th house of operations, semi-square Ascendant. Would this 'mark' count if I didn't know my Ascending sign, or simply help an astrologer deduce, through medical and house rulerships, what the rising sign could be?

Fascinating. Well worth a thread of its own.

Frisiangal