Tropical vs Sidereal Ascendants

[dr. farr]

Which ascendant description do you believe most closely matches your natal ascendant: the description of the tropical sign, the description of the zodiacal constellation*, both descriptions or neither description?


*as given either in Vedic (jyotish) astrology or in Fagan/Bradley Western "Sidereal" astrology

 

[cocoloco]

Sidereal for me. Tropical is Scorpio ascendant, Sidereal is Libra.

 

[Olivia]

Sidereal astrology isn't the same as constellational astrology.

So....? Do you mean the fixed star your ascendant is conjunct, or the constellation its in if it's in a constellation? Or do you mean the sidereal zodiac sign?

Or have I misunderstood completely?

 

[dr. farr]

I am referring to the ascendant sign location in natal charts erected in the "Western tropical" format vs the ascendant location in natal charts erected in the Vedic (jyotish) "constellational" rashi format or to the ascendant location in natal charts erected in the Fagan/Bradley "Western Sidereal" format.

In this poll I am asking if the natal ascendant sign description is believed to be more accurate according to the descriptions given in the generally available Western tropical literature for that tropical sign ascendant placement OR in the Vedic (jyotish) or Fagan/Bradley ("Western Sidereal") ascendant placement according to the literature of one or the other of those "sidereal" (oriented) systems.

 

[FleetingDasein]

Interesting poll, dr.farr.

In tropical, my ascendant is Pisces, at 29 degrees. In sidereal, my ascendant is still Pisces, but at 5 degrees. I had never looked at my sidereal chart before, and even though my ascendant remains the same, most of my planet placements have changed.

I think I relate more to my tropical chart, than I do to my sidereal. My sidereal placements seem like a completely different person! So I'm going with the "tropical matches me best" option.

/FD

 

[byjove]

Emmm. in the kindest way possible, I don't think people themselves are the best to judge; I'm convinced many people will choose what they WANT to relate to. I've seen it in action.

 

[kakasya]

I have Aquarius rising with 3 planets in Aquarius and 2 plus ketu in Capricorn. So it all belongs to Saturn.

Accordint to sidereal rasis I have Capricorn rising, and here Saturn is exalted. I was convinced by this until I read detailed descriptions of Aquarius rising with all the planets in place.

It is...just too easy to rationalize.
The problem is we're learning as we go. Even if its not what I want to hear, I'm likely to change it based on some idea about one zodiac being better than the other. Butterfly mind. Astrologers are notorious for this.

 

[waybread]

Dr. Farr, my ascendant is in a late degree of Virgo, so I am stuck with it, either way. Sidereal does put Saturn conjunct my ascendant, which--though I hate to admit it--seems more like me personality-wise; but since Saturn also opposes my sun, it is hard to make a strong case for sidereal as a better ascendant. On the other hand, even though sidereal (or constellational) appeals more to my sense of astro-logic, sidereal shifts most of my planets into water and earth signs. I am now past my 2nd Saturn return (!) and it is fair to say that I have lived my life mostly in the realms of air and fire (=excitement of ideas.)

ByJove, your comment reminds me of a super book: Jodie Forrest, The Ascendant. She suggests a lot of particular comments that other people make about us (notably one's "significant other") to which we should pay attention about how well we are navigating our rising sign. This approach really brings in the DC, as well. Some of her comments are so spot-on, that I would suggest anyone who doesn't know his ascendant could look at his GF's criticisms of him to nail it down. For example, with Virgo rising and Pisces on my DC, no wonder that I sometimes find my husband insufficiently inattentive to detail, and he finds me too picky! Sigh. It is what it is.

This book is written for the tropical zodiac Dr. Farr--I don't know whether it would still apply in sidereal--or constellational.

 

[Phil]

Tropical ascendant fits me well.

 

[Astrochologist]

Im a Libra ascendant late degree... sidereal im still a libra ascendant

if you want to get down to the bottom of the matter research which decan you are if you have the same sign in both tropical and sidereal.

In tropical , my cosign is gemini... in sidereal my cosign is libra.

Those who know me and aren't hip to astrology will tell you im the gemini decan.

 

[Astrochologist]

Sidereal for me. Tropical is Scorpio ascendant, Sidereal is Libra.

From that photo you look like a scorpio ascendant... you are clearly of "fixed" modality as well.

 

[dhundhun]

I come across very high percentage of variations when Asc looses power to describe a person:
~ Powerful rising planet
~ Powerful Sun
~ Stellium
~ Sensitive Eastern Point at higher latitudes

Myself, neither Tropical nor Sidereal, it is rising Planet.

 

[AspieTaurus]

My tropical rising sign, Scorpio. Libra rising does not fit me at all.

 

[byjove]

Waybread, I just read your comment now. I'll look into that book, thank you. I always ask other peoples opinions on this...I really don't think we are the best to judge...and it's surprising how people can tell you things about you that you didn't know, and that the evidence and the number of people to back that up being there...of course this isn't just about naval gazing...if you think you achieve A when you click your fingers, when in fact people say you achieve B, how can you achieve what you want in life? Embrace the unknown...

 

[juicey J.]

People, people, you have to read the rising sign not only in terms of itself but in terms of the sign and house postion of its ruler (or if there is one alutmen) if you do this for either system you will likely find your rising sign fits you fairly well in either. Also, a lot of times one sign in a system will fit you better because the ruler is angular in one but not the other. Also, like it has been rightly said already the rising planet (if a planet is cumulating also) and the sign it rules will also be a big part of your life/personality.

 

[astrologer50]

Sidereal v tropical astrology
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/astrology_plain_english/68808
http://www.lightonvedicastrology.com/articles-sidereal_tropical.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_astrology
http://w3.cultdeadcow.com/cms/2006/1...olution-o.html

 

[Lion o ness]

In tropical I am a Pisces in Sidereal I am an Aqua..

Idk Im kinda stuck in the middle, but I have to lean a little bit more towards Pisces..

I do have Uranus in the 7th, so I am highly Uranus.

I guess I can come across as "aqua" but I feel the Pisces.. I feel like Im stuck in la la land.. Always dreaming, and making up things in my head (for myself, for my la la land) Even though I may not show it alot..

So maybe I show the aqua, but I feel the Pisces...

Also I am not in my birthplace.. Aqua is my Asc in a relocation chart. So its really hard to pinpoint.

 

[Awakened_Pisces]

Sidereal, and there's a story about it, in Tropical/Traditional, I have a Leo ASC. In Sidereal, I have a Cancer ASC. If I were to say who am I in the universe today, it probably would be a LEO ASC. However, as I was born into the universe?

I was shy, caring, self-defensive. Basically, I had all the makeups of a Cancer rising. The Leo(2nd house in Sidereal), only came into place when my emotional barriers were broken by constant teasing and bullying and I decided to give myself a veil of arrogance for protection. Eventually, rather than protection it's me myself.

 

[joyrjw]

I'm Gemini rising in either Sidereal or Tropical.

The difference is the degrees. Tropical: Gemini 29' Sidereal: 5'

I don't think that I look like a Gemini rising at all except for in a few of my mannerisms(talking with my hands) and maybe a couple of my facial features(my eyes sparkle when I'm happy).

 

[SniperBomber328]

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