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tianamkd 02-03-2014 01:15 AM

nice forum
 
i am glad that forums like this actually exist.

thank you for your astrological help

brookeashley 02-04-2014 12:39 AM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
1 Attachment(s)
I've heard Uranus aspects have to do with gay sexuality. Maybe to venus and it has to do with house placements. My aunt is gay and what confuses me is she has her North node in the 5th trine Jupiter in 9th. I thought that would be good for kids but she never had any. Her moon is in Pisces in 4th opposite Venus in 10th. Why do you ask about these aspects?

Here is her chart if you want to check out her aspects. I'm still learning.

DumasEXE 02-04-2014 12:48 AM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
I know this isn't about lesbians but I know one person in my life who is gay. He has Mercury in Libra square Uranus in Capricorn. I've read that having Moon in Libra square Uranus can also mean that but I'm Heterosexual so I guess it doesn't count for me since I have that aspect.

So basically I think it might have something to do with a personal planet (Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars) in Libra square Uranus.

@brookashley

Interesting.. your aunt has Mars (which rules sexuality) square Uranus (the planet that represents anything out of the norm) so I guess it doesn't have to be in Libra. I'm guessing it has to be a personal planet (sign not mattering) square Uranus, whether the person is gay or not depends on how that aspect manifests.

brookeashley 02-04-2014 01:35 AM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
I'm not sure how Mercury could manifest into that. I would see Venus/Uranus/Mars/Sun before Mercury. I haven't looked at the chart much but this post made me think of it. Her mars square Uranus like you pointed out could be it. I'm not sure what else in the chart points to it though. I wonder if her moon opposite her Venus makes her feel unattached to love and relationships. She's only had one serious relationship so she's never been relationship oriented. She actually likes being alone.

Placements that come to mind are an Aquarius 8th, Uranus in the 8th, Maybe mars in the 8th only if it is aspecting Uranus. Or ruler of the 8th being aspected by Uranus. Ellen DeGeneres has Uranus in Leo opposite her Venus and sun in Aquarius. So Uranus opposing its own sign.

Vista 02-04-2014 02:02 AM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
I see Mars in aspect, mostly hard aspect to Ur or Pl in a lot of athletes charts. They can be bad tempered and vindictive too!! Moon in hard aspect to Uranus can make one very irritable and someone who experienced an unpredictable mother.

Your aunt has an unaspected Sun so it's not a surprise she likes to be alone. Unaspected Sun's beat to their own drummer so to speak. No aspects can also point to no marriage and in her case since she is gay, even more likelihood of that happening.

I have Venus(ruling my 7th no less) square Uranus and I am far from Gay. :tongue:

Quote:

Originally Posted by brookeashley (Post 534940)
I've heard Uranus aspects have to do with gay sexuality. Maybe to venus and it has to do with house placements. My aunt is gay and what confuses me is she has her North node in the 5th trine Jupiter in 9th. I thought that would be good for kids but she never had any. Her moon is in Pisces in 4th opposite Venus in 10th. Why do you ask about these aspects?

Here is her chart if you want to check out her aspects. I'm still learning.


tianamkd 02-04-2014 02:41 AM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
1 Attachment(s)
well here is my natal chart and do you think there is any aspect that can be on a sort of a way connected with my sexuallity? :smile:

ashriia 02-04-2014 03:43 AM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tianamkd (Post 534961)
well here is my natal chart and do you think there is any aspect that can be on a sort of a way connected with my sexuallity? :smile:

Hi,

the only pattern if there is one at all is uranus in hard aspect to personal planets or personal planets in mutable signs. but there is no definite conclusion. just the same way a chart can't show race it also doesn't show which gender you are attracted to. and there has been extensive research in this already and still no conclusive indicator.

Zarathu 02-04-2014 04:20 AM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
There has been a great deal of discussion over this for years. I have never seen a definitive way to determine sexual preference in a chart, or even the actual gender. For every circumstance that people think indicates a gay type, we have been able to find numerous examples of someone who has the type and is not gay.

Dubyadude1986 02-04-2014 04:43 AM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
Sounds like aspects can be found if it's known but can't be determined if unknown.

tikana 02-04-2014 06:06 AM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
I would throw everything out and concentrate on aspects involving ASC/Desc

Linsday Lohan's xgf has a twin sister who is straight.

DumasEXE 02-04-2014 10:38 AM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brookeashley (Post 534949)
I'm not sure how Mercury could manifest into that. I would see Venus/Uranus/Mars/Sun before Mercury..

Mercury rules the thought processes, right? Square Uranus (out of the norm) would be thought processes that are out of the norm. Gay people are born gay. There are articles out there that say how a gay person's brain is more like a woman's and a lesbian's is more like a man's so I guess it makes sense.

Zarathu 02-04-2014 04:08 PM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubyadude1986 (Post 534982)
Sounds like aspects can be found if it's known but can't be determined if unknown.

This is called hindsight. Hindsight always works because you know what to look for. Of course, no one cares what you find in hind sight since everyone already knows---unless hindsight gives you hints for future sight.

It is also possible that with such a high charged subject, people really don't want to know, and other people who do want to know are obscured by the loud vociferous protestations of those who don't want to know.

VIVIAN ROBESON, in a little book published in 1963, entitled Astrology and Human Sex Life talked about identifying homosexuality. She talks about it in Chapter 8, right after Chapter 7 on Human Sexual Abnormalities.

But even here she simply takes some famous homosexuals and looks at their charts and then extrapolates. It might be possible to do this to a very great extent using Astrodynes and Asteroids, but even so, tendency and actuality are two different things. The reason is that human social mores come into play along with human will. If there was no human will, then tendencies would always bloom into actualities. But if people are prevented from doing something do to adverse consequences then they are using their own free will to subvert what might be a biological tendency.

I believe that the issue is just way way too complicated for the simplistic astrology that most people want to experience.

Over many years of study and chart analysis for people, the very vast number of people have a complex issue, and always want a simple answer to it. This is one where a simple answer is simply not possible.

wilsontc 02-04-2014 05:12 PM

Warning
 
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Quote:

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greybeard 02-04-2014 07:51 PM

Re: Warning
 
Vivian Robson was a guy.
You know how the English are, naming boys Vivian and Evelyn and stuff.

I will repeat myself until I'm blue in the face.

Everyone's sexual inclinations are shown in their chart.
It's there. And this includes inclinations which are inhibited or repressed; the repression is shown too.
But things are not found by seeing some single "signature" and saying "Aha!"
The sexuality (and whatever else is of interest regarding the native of any chart) is found by close examination of the whole chart.

Suppose a given chart features Aries on the Ascendant.
This person (dependent on the conditioning of Mars, of aspects and whatever else may affect this Ascendant) will in general be adventurous, direct and immediate, pioneering, impetuous, ego-centric and whatever else may be characteristic of Aries.

These qualities will be expressed in every facet of life. This includes sexuality.
The Ascendant supposedly has nothing to do with sexuality, but it does.

What if the Moon is square the Sun? This has nothing to do with sexuality. You will not likely find any reference to the aspect regarding sexuality. But in a man's chart, for example, it suggests difficulty (and possibly consequent aversion to, or disrespect for...) with women, beginning with the mother. Isn't this apt to affect develpment of sexuality?

How about Saturn in the Tenth? Liz Greene flatly says she finds this position correlates with homosexuality more often than would be expected. I agree with her, based on my own experience. (Saturn in the parental axis implies strong inhibition of some sort originating with the parents). Saturn is not a "sexual planet".

None of the above indications have anything to do with sexuality, supposedly. But they do. Our sexuality is far more psychological in nature than physical. And it is an expression of the whole self, and this is why we must examine the whole chart.

What if there are a couple of different indicators in the chart that the person has an urge to stand out by being different, even though the indicators seem to have no connection with sexual expression? My bet is that there will be something "different" in this person's sexuality.

If we wish to develop an effective astrology, it must be based on assessment of the chart as a whole, no matter what it is we wish to understand about a person through his or her chart. The person is a complex whole; it only makes sense that to see the person we must evaluate the complex whole of the chart.

As long as we continue to depend on the presence of some singular flag or signature to "see", our astrology will be crippled, our vision blurred.

kailaniatsea 02-20-2014 08:24 AM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brookeashley (Post 534940)
I've heard Uranus aspects have to do with gay sexuality. Here is her chart if you want to check out her aspects. I'm still learning.

Uranus aspects can indicate alternative sexuality, but that planet in it of itself does not suggest that the person may be that way. One curious detail that I noticed in you aunt's chart is that Ceres is conjunct Uranus and Pluto in Virgo squaring Mars in Sagittarius. Ceres is the nurturing asteroid. Perhaps this may indicate that she does not nurture traditional feminine roles and attitudes (for biological, sociological or personal reasons), and in turn embraces the more masculine (Mars rising in a masculine sign) side to her self-expression. Don't forget that Virgo is a feminine sign and if it is squared, that could the missing piece to the puzzle.

mdinaz 02-20-2014 04:29 PM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kailaniatsea (Post 538275)
Uranus aspects can indicate alternative sexuality, but that planet in it of itself does not suggest that the person may be that way. One curious detail that I noticed in you aunt's chart is that Ceres is conjunct Uranus and Pluto in Virgo squaring Mars in Sagittarius. Ceres is the nurturing asteroid. Perhaps this may indicate that she does not nurture traditional feminine roles and attitudes (for biological, sociological or personal reasons), and in turn embraces the more masculine (Mars rising in a masculine sign) side to her self-expression. Don't forget that Virgo is a feminine sign and if it is squared, that could the missing piece to the puzzle.

I think the key in the chart is the Saturn in Aries quincunx Venus closely in Virgo. Virgo is considered the "barren" sign and fertility is not well expressed there - and with the quincunx to Saturn in Aries (a poor position for Saturn), and in the 5th house too - the ultimate expression of fertility is suppressed. Her Mars is much stronger and thus she exhibits more of the male energy than the female, which she cannot relate to at all. Mars is in a male sign and the tension of the square with Pluto and Uranus find the male sexual energy much more enticing and appealing. This adds to your point about Ceres also being square Mars and in Virgo - nurturing as a mother and a woman is just not a viable expression of that energy. The Node is also quincunx Pluto/Ceres/Uranus so this is part of her life path.

Jesse Booth 02-24-2014 10:11 PM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
I haven't seen anyone mention it so far on this thread, but I came across an arabic lot called the lot of homosexuality during some of my time looking for information on arabic parts. It isn't a topic I have time to focus on right now, as I'm preoccupied with several other tasks at the moment, but if you guys want to check it out, it might be worth your time. I'll try to find the website I saw it on, but it's been a while since I've looked it up. And believe me, you won't get many useful results if you look up "lot of homosexuality" on Google. Let's just say that none of the results will be about astrology, and leave it at that.

waybread 02-24-2014 10:54 PM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
I have some trouble with this type of question: there is no fail-proof signature for anything in a horoscope. We can point to trends but that's about it.

Venus in hard aspect to Uranus is a signature that I have seen appear in charts of lesbian women (and one bi- woman); but then we don't know how many lesbians do not have this aspect, or how many straight people do.

While I might point to tianamkd's Venus conjunct Uranus, or the aunt's Ceres (another "girl" planetoid) conjunct Uranus, I wouldn't make to much of it.

Uranus involved with one of the sexy planets can indicate sexuality that is unusual in some way, meaning as the mainstream society defines it. Since this changes across cultures and time periods, it's probably best not to read too much into Uranus aspects.

dr. farr 02-25-2014 05:40 AM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
In oldtime (ie Islamic transitional era) literature, Venus and its conditions, situations and configurations, was given as prime significator for lesbianism (that term exactly used in this connection by Abu Mashar, around 850 AD) Also mentioned in this connection by Thabit ibn Qurra (around that same period of time) When we add Uranus (from Modern astrology) to this, I think we have found the 2 primary generic significators for this state (state of being re to sexuality)...

kailaniatsea 02-25-2014 05:46 AM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
For those who are interested in exploring philosophical viewpoints regarding alternative sexuality in astrology, the link below may be useful (that thread became heated at times):

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=22295

By the way, the Arabic part of homosexuality is ASC + Mars - Uranus if curious. Personally, I have never used this part and can't speak on its veracity or lack thereof. For those who do believe that astrology may unlock the keys to an individual's potential to be gay as opposed to straight, it is important to distinguish sexual fetishes predilections and from orientation. I do not say this to offend any particular group of people, but this is what I was taught in abnormal psychology. I have known what I call "part-time" gays who only use "established" gays (meaning out and comfortable with themselves) for their own sexual pleasure and in their everyday life, they repudiate them. Needless to say, people who engage in these behaviors perpetuate negative attitudes against the LGBT community. This is part of the reason why sexuality is so complicated.

However, the OP's established that this is a distinct aspect of their identity as human beings. With that being said, good luck!

dr. farr 02-25-2014 05:51 AM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
I have occasionally experimented with this part (although using the formula ascendant+ VENUS-uranus for women), and, have not obtained very reliable indications from its applications (it is a "new" part, having been introduced in the mid 20th century)-however, I hasten to add that I have only made a few experiments with it, so my results with it are by no means certain.

dr. farr 02-25-2014 06:03 AM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dr. farr (Post 539224)
In oldtime (ie Islamic transitional era) literature, Venus and its conditions, situations and configurations, was given as prime significator for lesbianism (that term exactly used in this connection by Abu Mashar, around 850 AD) Also mentioned in this connection by Thabit ibn Qurra (around that same period of time) When we add Uranus (from Modern astrology) to this, I think we have found the 2 primary generic significators for this state (state of being re to sexuality)...

One example of the above significators, currently available here on AW is the chart posted in the "Transgender" thread by member Mosnar199420: in that chart we find:

-Uranus (in the 8th whole sign house) squared by Venus (in detriment in Aries, in the 11th whole sign house)

-Moon flows toward Uranus (and is in exact trine with Neptune) applying to a trine with Uranus, at the same time seperating from a quincuncx with Venus: so, here is a Moon to Uranus/Venus connection (in this case the waxing Moon being posited in the sign of the Virgin) in addition to the Venus/Uranus connection.

Flapjacks 04-10-2014 08:58 PM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by waybread (Post 539158)

Uranus involved with one of the sexy planets can indicate sexuality that is unusual in some way, meaning as the mainstream society defines it. Since this changes across cultures and time periods, it's probably best not to read too much into Uranus aspects.

This is what I was thinking reading this thread. "Unusual" can manifest in many ways - and in astrology, there aren't any "this will be" but "this may be". Some consider that to mean it doesn't work, but really it's out of faith that people shape their destiny. I also find that astrology is more of a statistical type of science, like psychology and economics, because of a lack of complete information.

That said, I've seen charts of homosexual people with strong Uranus. I've come to the conclusion that this is describing their relationship to society and family rather than their sexual preference, where sexual preference can be the fuel.

greybeard 04-21-2014 07:27 AM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
In the OP's chart we find:

1. Moon is lord of the horoscope.
She is exactly square the horizon. She squares the massive stellium (characterized by two partile clusters within 6 degrees of each other) in Capricorn, and square her own lord Mars -- exalted but under extreme duress, and in the sign of Moon's exile -- receiving Moon; but is this a favorable reception? Moon is not only lord of the horoscope, but is also singleton in the east. Apart from the massive square she beholds a cross-sign semisquare to the final dispositor of the chart, Saturn, within degree. There is also a sesquicuadrate, slightly weaker, to Pluto. Aries is not a good placement for Moon.

Apart from its more general indications as ruler of the Ascendant -- Moon in a female chart has much to say about the native's self-concept, and her attitudes toward the feminine role. The Moon in this chart is severely afflicted. Self-expression is heavily obstructed (the squares) and subject to friction and disruption, confusion (the octile minors). Moon, heavily afflicted as described above, stands in the house of the mother, as a singleton (very powerful influence and an area of major "interest" in the chart). Cancer rises, which may suggest "issues" with mother, family, nurture, security as prominent in the life.

If we take the "Moon" out of the realm of an astrogical term or symbol, and take the trouble to carefully analyze and interpret her significance through examination of all of the conditions (sign, house, rulership, aspects, etc) as outlined in the first paragraph, we will get a good description of what Moon really means, promises in this life. With Moon so heavily afflicted, is it likely that "Womanhood is troubled"? "Reading" the Moon in depth will show the how and why of this trouble.

2. Saturn is final dispositor of the chart.
Saturn, in the final analysis, is determinant of the life, its general tone and course. Apart from his cross-sign semisquare to Moon (which requires very careful study if we are to understand the implications of this aspect between the two most dominant planets in the chart), his only major aspect is the close square to Pluto. It is not my intention to interpret this chart, but I will mention that one characteristic of Saturn square Pluto can be "feelings of persecution" often caused by or concerning somehow "being on the outside". Pluto is in Scorpio, sign of sexuality, and is intercepted. Also note that Saturn is at the bending. I do not normally use (pay much attention to) the semisextile, but with the extreme combustion of Venus in the same degree as Saturn, and in his sign, it should definitely be considered as important. This combustion shows a total consumption of Venus by Sun (the conjunction falls outside Cazimi by only 4' of arc). This may imply "an all consuming self-love" [possible narcissistic tendencies]; the combustion occurs within 4 degrees of the cusp of the 8th of sexuality -- the cusp is in Aquarius, sign of the eccentriic, the unconventional.

The exceptional emphasis on Saturn's sign Capricorn shows an exceptional concern with propriety, convention, "proper" behavior. But the fierce (and troubled) partile conjunctions (a. Sun-Venus, and b. Neptune-Mars-Uranus & New Moon before birth) show trouble.

If we read a chart... I've given an idea of how, I hope... we will see our sexuality revealed. Looking to one or another specific indicator is helpful, provides detail, but does not complete the picture. By reading the chart as a whole (a lot of work, I agree) we can see the psychology of the individual and are then prepared to apply that knowledge of the psychology to any specific question, such as "Do I have tendencies toward lesbianism?" The answer to that question is contained within this chart.

What I will say is that her very natural inclinations toward spontaneity and open expression of the self is strongly repressed, constrained, blocked...producing high tension, even anger (which is held in and can produce physical problems such as migraine).

greybeard 04-21-2014 07:27 AM

Re: Lesbian aspects
 
In the OP's chart we find:

1. Moon is lord of the horoscope.
She is exactly square the horizon. She squares the massive stellium (characterized by two partile clusters within 6 degrees of each other) in Capricorn, and square her own lord Mars -- exalted but under extreme duress, and in the sign of Moon's exile -- receiving Moon; but is this a favorable reception? Moon is not only lord of the horoscope, but is also singleton in the east. Apart from the massive square she beholds a cross-sign semisquare to the final dispositor of the chart, Saturn, within degree. There is also a sesquicuadrate, slightly weaker, to Pluto. Aries is not a good placement for Moon.

Apart from its more general indications as ruler of the Ascendant -- Moon in a female chart has much to say about the native's self-concept, and her attitudes toward the feminine role. The Moon in this chart is severely afflicted. Self-expression is heavily obstructed (the squares) and subject to friction and disruption, confusion (the octile minors). Moon, heavily afflicted as described above, stands in the house of the mother, as a singleton (very powerful influence and an area of major "interest" in the chart). Cancer rises, which may suggest "issues" with mother, family, nurture, security as prominent in the life.

If we take the "Moon" out of the realm of an astrogical term or symbol, and take the trouble to carefully analyze and interpret her significance through examination of all of the conditions (sign, house, rulership, aspects, etc) as outlined in the first paragraph, we will get a good description of what Moon really means, promises in this life. With Moon so heavily afflicted, is it likely that "Womanhood is troubled"? "Reading" the Moon in depth will show the how and why of this trouble.

2. Saturn is final dispositor of the chart.
Saturn, in the final analysis, is determinant of the life, its general tone and course. Apart from his cross-sign semisquare to Moon (which requires very careful study if we are to understand the implications of this aspect between the two most dominant planets in the chart), his only major aspect is the close square to Pluto. It is not my intention to interpret this chart, but I will mention that one characteristic of Saturn square Pluto can be "feelings of persecution" often caused by or concerning somehow "being on the outside". Pluto is in Scorpio, sign of sexuality, and is intercepted. Also note that Saturn is at the bending. I do not normally use (pay much attention to) the semisextile, but with the extreme combustion of Venus in the same degree as Saturn, and in his sign, it should definitely be considered as important. This combustion shows a total consumption of Venus by Sun (the conjunction falls outside Cazimi by only 4' of arc). This may imply "an all consuming self-love" [possible narcissistic tendencies]; the combustion occurs within 4 degrees of the cusp of the 8th of sexuality -- the cusp is in Aquarius, sign of the eccentriic, the unconventional.

The exceptional emphasis on Saturn's sign Capricorn shows an exceptional concern with propriety, convention, "proper" behavior. But the fierce (and troubled) partile conjunctions (a. Sun-Venus, and b. Neptune-Mars-Uranus & New Moon before birth) show trouble.

If we read a chart... I've given an idea of how, I hope... we will see our sexuality revealed. Looking to one or another specific indicator is helpful, provides detail, but does not complete the picture. By reading the chart as a whole (a lot of work, I agree) we can see the psychology of the individual and are then prepared to apply that knowledge of the psychology to any specific question, such as "Do I have tendencies toward lesbianism?" The answer to that question is contained within this chart.

What I will say is that her very natural inclinations toward spontaneity and open expression of the self are strongly repressed, constrained, blocked...producing high tension, even anger (which is held in, often unrecognized, and can produce physical problems such as migraine).


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