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Boston Guy 01-29-2018 01:16 AM

Alcohol and Our Charts
 
Greetings!

I looked for a thread on this subject, but I couldn't find one that was terribly recent, so I figured I'd make one.

For many, alcohol is seen as a nice way to relax and socialize. Be it at a wedding, on a date, or watching your favorite sport, You can always have your friend Bud or your best girl Ms. Miller there to cheer you on. For others, however, alcohol can certainly be classified as an addiction and a crutch.

Personally, I find myself in the latter category some times. W.C. Fields once said, If God had wanted us to drink beer, He would have given us stomachs! That describes my day pretty well. I normally have some Irish Creme in my coffee when I wake up, a couple cocktails at lunch, some wine after dinner, and a nightcap shot before I retire. For many, especially my age, this would be considered completely impossible while functioning; but not for me.

When I started my dabbling in astrology, I wasn't exactly sure how it would suit me. I didn't see a lot of things in astrology that I could relate with. So, I decided to pick your expertise and ask some questions and discuss the relationship between alcohol and our aspects, signs, and charts.

Which signs are better off not drinking, for example? In my naivety, I figured water signs were more equipped to partake in the juice. But then, is it wise for someone so emotional to make themselves so vulnerable to alcoholic influences?

What effects does alcohol have on certain signs? How do these people react when under the influence? Feel free to share your own experiences, I'm genuinely curious; as a drinker, as a former bartender, and now as someone keen to astrology, I'm interested.

Can alcohol serve as a betterment or a hindrance to certain signs manifesting?

And perhaps most importantly, what's your favorite drink? Mine would have to be a sweet Rob Roy (Scotch Manhatten), straight up with dirty rocks to the side, and two cherries.

Cheers! :wink:

!4C 01-29-2018 01:22 AM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
Some think the sign on the 12th house cusp indicates how we behave when intoxicated. It works for me. I have Gemini on the 12th. I tend to be more chatty.

waybread 01-29-2018 04:28 AM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
Boston Guy, I drink my share. So this post is not coming from a teetotaler.

I also know what it is like to live with a normally wonderful guy who can turn into a horrifying binge-drinker.

Do you want to post your chart?

It looks like you have an alcohol dependency, if not alcoholism. There are ways to determine this. Namely, could you dry up for a month? A week? Without insatiable cravings for a drink? Just to show you could do it and are not an alcoholic? Has your drinking affected a close relationship with someone you love? Have you ever had black-out spells, where you don't remember the next day what happened the night before?

I won't get into the health issues: if people who care about you know about your habits, they've told you already.

There are no 100% hard-and-fast astrological signatures, but generally, people who develop alcohol dependency will have:

1. Neptune in a hard aspect (usually a square) to a personal planet (sun, moon, Mercury, Mars.) There is a sense of self-annihilation here. When it's "tough to be you," drinking smooths the hard edges. (Venus square Neptune is more the unrealistic idealist.)

2. Neptune in a hard aspect to Jupiter. This isn't quite so personal, but more the energy of, "If a little is good, a lot is better." Let's party.

3. More generally, a tough chart (probably Plutonian) that shows that someone's life journey is really through the sub-basement of life. Not pretty, but this is how some people incarnate. Drink or drugs provide a quick trip into the dark side that they feel compelled to experience.

4. Note that some people will not have these aspects in their horoscopes natally, but can develop them later in life through progressions and transits. (For example, my mother didn't drink much at all when I was growing up, but my sister and I are pretty convinced that she died an alcoholic.)

5. Pisces has a reputation for hitting the sauce, probably due to Neptune as the modern ruler of Pisces. I'm not sure this is accurate. It might be. Scorpio normally prizes its self-control, and Cancer really longs to merge with another person-- not live in Margaritaville.

To answer your questions:

Anyone who is susceptible to influences 1-4 should lay off the sauce. Such people, incidentally, are also vulnerable to drugs. Moreover, Neptune has some positive uses, like a rich imagination, that they won't develop so long as the Big Buzz is their default position.

I just cringe at the pop-schlock sun-sign astrology that imagines people's lives can be reduced to a sun-sign. Once you get into astrology, you see how complex a horoscope can be. As is every human life.

I can't imagine any sun-sign or horoscope getting better under heavy drinking. But that's the myth, isn't it?? Under the influence, women are less inhibited, men are more courageous, parties are more fun, and so on. Well, maybe. If you've never loved a binge drinker screaming at you about how you've ruined his life and he's going to drive the car off the bridge, count yourself lucky.

My favourite drinks? Oh, lordy. It depends on the food, the occasion, who I'm with, and so on.

1. First night out on a camping trip: dry champagne surrogates: cava or sekt.

2. Wine: probably an old vine Zinfandel or a New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc, depending on the food. A GewŁrztraminer or Riesling with Thanksgiving turkey or German-type food. Decant the reds for a few hours. Any wine is better in crystal glasses, but inexpensive crystal stemware is fine.

3. Beer. Actually I'd prefer a natural (not nasty-sweetend) cider without additives. I'm OK with most beer types except IPA. Too bitter. Would normally ask what's local, or for an amber.

4. Cocktails: all are mightily chilled in a cocktail shaker, taken off the ice ASAP. Depending on the weather:

a. classic dry vodka Martini, straight up, with a green pimento-stuffed olive.

b. Manhattan: rye or mid-grade bourbon like Jack Daniels, sweet vermouth straight up, preferably with a "natural" (undyed) maraschino cherry.

c. Bronx: gin, dry and sweet vermouth, freshly squeezed OJ, orange twist, dash of orange bitters.

d. Cin-Cin: equal parts of dry and sweet vermouth, slice of lemon. (This one on the rocks, normally.)

waybread 01-29-2018 04:33 AM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
If you prefer a sweet drink, I'd suggest an Old Fashioned or Negroni, but you know booze better than I do.

JUPITERASC 01-29-2018 10:55 AM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston Guy (Post 858607)
Greetings!

I looked for a thread on this subject, but I couldn't find one that was terribly recent, so I figured I'd make one.

For many, alcohol is seen as a nice way to relax and socialize. Be it at a wedding, on a date, or watching your favorite sport, You can always have your friend Bud or your best girl Ms. Miller there to cheer you on. For others, however, alcohol can certainly be classified as an addiction and a crutch.

Personally, I find myself in the latter category some times. W.C. Fields once said, If God had wanted us to drink beer, He would have given us stomachs! That describes my day pretty well. I normally have some Irish Creme in my coffee when I wake up, a couple cocktails at lunch, some wine after dinner, and a nightcap shot before I retire. For many, especially my age, this would be considered completely impossible while functioning; but not for me.

When I started my dabbling in astrology, I wasn't exactly sure how it would suit me. I didn't see a lot of things in astrology that I could relate with. So, I decided to pick your expertise and ask some questions and discuss the relationship between alcohol and our aspects, signs, and charts.

Which signs are better off not drinking, for example? In my naivety, I figured water signs were more equipped to partake in the juice. But then, is it wise for someone so emotional to make themselves so vulnerable to alcoholic influences?

What effects does alcohol have on certain signs? How do these people react when under the influence? Feel free to share your own experiences, I'm genuinely curious; as a drinker, as a former bartender, and now as someone keen to astrology, I'm interested.

Can alcohol serve as a betterment or a hindrance to certain signs manifesting?

And perhaps most importantly, what's your favorite drink? Mine would have to be a sweet Rob Roy (Scotch Manhatten), straight up with dirty rocks to the side, and two cherries.

Cheers! :wink:

Quote:

Originally Posted by waybread (Post 858735)
Boston Guy, I drink my share. So this post is not coming from a teetotaler.

I also know what it is like to live with a normally wonderful guy who can turn into a horrifying binge-drinker.

Do you want to post your chart?

It looks like you have an alcohol dependency, if not alcoholism. There are ways to determine this. Namely, could you dry up for a month? A week? Without insatiable cravings for a drink? Just to show you could do it and are not an alcoholic? Has your drinking affected a close relationship with someone you love? Have you ever had black-out spells, where you don't remember the next day what happened the night before?

I won't get into the health issues: if people who care about you know about your habits, they've told you already.

There are no 100% hard-and-fast astrological signatures, but generally, people who develop alcohol dependency will have:

1. Neptune in a hard aspect (usually a square) to a personal planet (sun, moon, Mercury, Mars.) There is a sense of self-annihilation here. When it's "tough to be you," drinking smooths the hard edges. (Venus square Neptune is more the unrealistic idealist.)

2. Neptune in a hard aspect to Jupiter. This isn't quite so personal, but more the energy of, "If a little is good, a lot is better." Let's party.

3. More generally, a tough chart (probably Plutonian) that shows that someone's life journey is really through the sub-basement of life. Not pretty, but this is how some people incarnate. Drink or drugs provide a quick trip into the dark side that they feel compelled to experience.

4. Note that some people will not have these aspects in their horoscopes natally, but can develop them later in life through progressions and transits. (For example, my mother didn't drink much at all when I was growing up, but my sister and I are pretty convinced that she died an alcoholic.)

5. Pisces has a reputation for hitting the sauce, probably due to Neptune as the modern ruler of Pisces. I'm not sure this is accurate. It might be. Scorpio normally prizes its self-control, and Cancer really longs to merge with another person-- not live in Margaritaville.

To answer your questions:

Anyone who is susceptible to influences 1-4 should lay off the sauce. Such people, incidentally, are also vulnerable to drugs. Moreover, Neptune has some positive uses, like a rich imagination, that they won't develop so long as the Big Buzz is their default position.

I just cringe at the pop-schlock sun-sign astrology that imagines people's lives can be reduced to a sun-sign. Once you get into astrology, you see how complex a horoscope can be. As is every human life.

I can't imagine any sun-sign or horoscope getting better under heavy drinking. But that's the myth, isn't it?? Under the influence, women are less inhibited, men are more courageous, parties are more fun, and so on. Well, maybe. If you've never loved a binge drinker screaming at you about how you've ruined his life and he's going to drive the car off the bridge, count yourself lucky.

My favourite drinks? Oh, lordy. It depends on the food, the occasion, who I'm with, and so on.

1. First night out on a camping trip: dry champagne surrogates: cava or sekt.

2. Wine: probably an old vine Zinfandel or a New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc, depending on the food. A GewŁrztraminer or Riesling with Thanksgiving turkey or German-type food. Decant the reds for a few hours. Any wine is better in crystal glasses, but inexpensive crystal stemware is fine.

3. Beer. Actually I'd prefer a natural (not nasty-sweetend) cider without additives. I'm OK with most beer types except IPA. Too bitter. Would normally ask what's local, or for an amber.

4. Cocktails: all are mightily chilled in a cocktail shaker, taken off the ice ASAP. Depending on the weather:

a. classic dry vodka Martini, straight up, with a green pimento-stuffed olive.

b. Manhattan: rye or mid-grade bourbon like Jack Daniels, sweet vermouth straight up, preferably with a "natural" (undyed) maraschino cherry.

c. Bronx: gin, dry and sweet vermouth, freshly squeezed OJ, orange twist, dash of orange bitters.

d. Cin-Cin: equal parts of dry and sweet vermouth, slice of lemon. (This one on the rocks, normally.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by waybread (Post 858736)

If you prefer a sweet drink, I'd suggest an Old Fashioned or Negroni, but you know booze better than I do.

Ascendant ruler in 8th
may be associated :smile:
with self destructive behavior
self-destructive behavior includes alcoholism.
clearly however
not all alcoholics/self destructive people have ascendant ruler in 8th

Culpeper 01-29-2018 03:07 PM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
Jupiter rules grapes, wine and alcohol in general. The position of Jupiter in the natal chart can indicate if the native will be a drinker or alcoholic. We always have to have the chart. If Jupiter is strong by house and sign but seriously afflicted by Saturn and under the beams of the Sun, the native may have an alcohol addiction problem. However, other aspects can mitigate this.

The local culture has to be considered. Back in the day when I was studying in the far east, I learned the safety of alcohol. The water could kill you or make you very ill. It was always advisable to drink something alcoholic with anything. In Japan alcohol was subsidized and very inexpensive, and the Japanese were heavy drinkers in general and live longer than Americans. But be careful, in the U.S. quite a few of my friends and acquaintances have died in alcohol related accidents.

Boston Guy 01-29-2018 03:14 PM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by waybread (Post 858735)
Boston Guy, I drink my share. So this post is not coming from a teetotaler.

I also know what it is like to live with a normally wonderful guy who can turn into a horrifying binge-drinker.

Do you want to post your chart?

Sure thing! See it below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by waybread (Post 858735)
It looks like you have an alcohol dependency, if not alcoholism. There are ways to determine this. Namely, could you dry up for a month? A week? Without insatiable cravings for a drink? Just to show you could do it and are not an alcoholic? Has your drinking affected a close relationship with someone you love? Have you ever had black-out spells, where you don't remember the next day what happened the night before?

I've gone weeks without drinking, sure, though I can't recall going for months without a drink since I started. I've said it on a different thread but I'm in the Army National Guard; naturally, with this obligation I can't stick to my regimen of creature comfort all the time. The last time I took a prolonged period of sobriety was when I did a 2 month stint in a different state. Still, I was able to bar crawl every now and then with the guys but that was seldom found.

My drinking hasn't really affected my relationships, of course I've lashed out a couple times, and when I do that I tend to punish myself with alcohol deprivation for a few days. Regarding blackouts, sure, I've had them. Though they mostly happened in the beginning. Since I started to leave the beer alone and stick with the hard stuff, measuring it out throughout the day, I've been okay. I drink just enough to get me feeling alright, and then one more.

The worst part about my drinking is my aversion to sleep, food, and water. I hate going to sleep. Since I started drinking regularly, which was when I was about 18 (I hid it pretty well, my parents didn't really catch on), I typically only sleep for about five hours each night. Breakfast is a dirty word in my mind. And water is just an ingredient of beer to me. Very complicated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by waybread (Post 858735)
I won't get into the health issues: if people who care about you know about your habits, they've told you already.

That's just the thing. They don't seem to notice all the time. I keep a pretty good wrap on it. I get good marks in college, make decent money, they figure How could an alcoholic be able to do that? Guess he isn't one. But not all alcoholics are found in the gutter in the morning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by waybread (Post 858735)
To answer your questions:

Anyone who is susceptible to influences 1-4 should lay off the sauce. Such people, incidentally, are also vulnerable to drugs. Moreover, Neptune has some positive uses, like a rich imagination, that they won't develop so long as the Big Buzz is their default position.

I just cringe at the pop-schlock sun-sign astrology that imagines people's lives can be reduced to a sun-sign. Once you get into astrology, you see how complex a horoscope can be. As is every human life.

I can't imagine any sun-sign or horoscope getting better under heavy drinking. But that's the myth, isn't it?? Under the influence, women are less inhibited, men are more courageous, parties are more fun, and so on. Well, maybe. If you've never loved a binge drinker screaming at you about how you've ruined his life and he's going to drive the car off the bridge, count yourself lucky.

That last part hit me a bit hard, I must say. If I ever turned into such a thing I'd hate myself too. In my mind, since I'm successful when I drink, I might be doing something right, you know? I am not only successful, but I'm able to enjoy my success even better! Great! But the people I love know by now, whether drinking or not, when to test me and when not to. I can be your best friend, or the worst thing in your life, with me there isn't often a middle ground. Thankfully that darker side keeps itself away usually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by waybread (Post 858735)
-snip-

Excellent taste all the way around! I actually just polished off a bottle of Sauvignon Blanc from New Zealand last night, it was excellent, it was called Sunday Bay, I recommend.

I thank you for your response. Reading it was really insightful and a bit poignant. I don't regret my drinking, but I'm certainly cautious, if not a bit nervous, of how I might handle it in the future. I'm sure I'll manage.

Cheers!

Love2Know 01-29-2018 03:46 PM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
Probably a large bucket of margaritas. Also, I donít think itís good to drink everyday.

Boston Guy 01-29-2018 03:53 PM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Love2Know (Post 858883)
Probably a large bucket of margaritas. Also, I donít think itís good to drink everyday.

http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFile...5/85285080.jpg

GentlyJohnny 01-29-2018 05:24 PM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
It is an interesting topic as a few things in my chart indicate I am susceptible to addiction, since this thread is about alcohol I will focus on that. I am Pisces rising with my Sun (Libra) squared by Neptune, Jupiter (Pisces) in 12th (Aquarius cusp) squared by Uranus; I am also an escapist in nature, always bury my head into the sand.

Yet for some reasons me and alcohol just don't get along (apart from it gives me rashes) and no one can say I didn't give it a try. My family introduced me to wine when I was a child and the taste of it literally reminded me of gasoline, and it's not only wine, it's all kinds of alcohol. The first time I drank vodka (around 12 in a friend's home), the moment it hit my tastebuds I almost spit it right out, while that girlfriend told me "It tastes like water". During teenage, due to peer pressure I was forced to drink a lot (tequila, gin and tonic, whiskey, vodka with redbull, rum and coke etc), we drank for a hard breakup, for finishing an exma, failing an exam, passing an exam, for parties, for birthdays, for holidays, for hookups etc, and the more I drank the more it became repulsive, literally. My body just seemed to know its limits, before I got a chance to get really drank, I threw up, and just like that I was back to sober with a bad taste in my mouth. Anyway I never got drank mentally, sure I might walk funny but I always knew what I was doing and remembered everything. Then for a long time alcohol didn't cross my mind until I was going through a dark period. The funny thing is my aim was to be addicted, I wanted to let go of myself so much that I fully expected alcohol to waste my life away, but it just didn't work. There was a lack of attraction for me to pick the bottle up and if I did the process wasn't enjoyable and more often than not it nauseated me. You would think me joking but looking back it was akin to killing myself by eating parsley (or whatever food you hate).

My favourite drink is sprinking water :w00t: (okay I will see myself out). No for real it would probably be guinness (half pint).

waybread 01-30-2018 02:52 AM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
Boston Guy, I just saw your chart on Aquarius7000's thread about ascendants. As per my post, above, you do have a moon-Neptune square; and darn near a Thor's hammer involving Neptune-Uranus, Mercury-Venus, and Mars.

Please look after your health, hey?

Boston Guy 01-30-2018 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waybread (Post 859109)
Boston Guy, I just saw your chart on Aquarius7000's thread about ascendants. As per my post, above, you do have a moon-Neptune square; and darn near a Thor's hammer involving Neptune-Uranus, Mercury-Venus, and Mars.

Please look after your health, hey?

You don't need to worry about me. I'll make out alright! Thanks for the concern, but fortune favors the bold!

Cheers!

waybread 01-31-2018 01:42 AM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
It also favours people who get their liver and pancreas functions checked out periodically.

BTW, my toast to my husband is, "To your happiness." And to yours

turkish girl 05-13-2018 05:43 PM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
1 Attachment(s)
I just saw the topic,but anyway wanted to write here.Even though Waybread explain it very good in details,i wanted to share an example by sending a chart here(asked the permission of this individual :) )

As she mentioned above,plutonian,neptunian people are tend to be addictive more than others.This guy has a good family,has a good job.But even though he had several heart attacks he can not stop drinking and smoking.

He has a stellium in scorpio..and neptune conjuncts to his sun and moon.Plus there is a prominent jupiter opposition to these stellium which is a great indicator.

All signs and planets are such good and bad sides...those energies gives him addiction well but he is one of the generous and understanding person i have ever met.When he tells me something,it comes always so right.He is very sensitive to his loved ones.

You can take a look into his chart :)

Osamenor 05-13-2018 08:49 PM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by waybread (Post 858735)
1. Neptune in a hard aspect (usually a square) to a personal planet (sun, moon, Mercury, Mars.) There is a sense of self-annihilation here. When it's "tough to be you," drinking smooths the hard edges. (Venus square Neptune is more the unrealistic idealist.)

2. Neptune in a hard aspect to Jupiter. This isn't quite so personal, but more the energy of, "If a little is good, a lot is better." Let's party.

3. More generally, a tough chart (probably Plutonian) that shows that someone's life journey is really through the sub-basement of life. Not pretty, but this is how some people incarnate. Drink or drugs provide a quick trip into the dark side that they feel compelled to experience.

I have factors 1 and 3: Neptune in a tight square to Venus and less tight (3 degrees orb) square to Mercury. And the eighth, fourth, and twelfth house emphasized, through sun and greatest planetary placement in the eighth, and a grand trine involving sun (H8), moon (H12, loosely conjunct Neptune) and Jupiter/Chiron (on the IC). Probably enough to count as the sub-basement of life, especially with Jupiter also being involved in a tight, angular t-square of slow moving planets, which won't resolve by progression in my lifetime.

However, I am a light to moderate drinker, and never did more than dip a toe into drug experimentation. I have found that I'm more likely to drink if I'm socializing with people who drink more, or if I'm feeling uncomfortable with myself. If I were going to develop alcohol dependence, discomfort with self would be behind it.

I have, on a couple of occasions in my life, decided to abstain from alcohol for a month or two in order to ensure that I didn't develop dependence, but that's not the same thing as actually being alcohol dependent. I've never wanted to drink early in the day or on an empty stomach--I have reactive hypoglycemia, and that would really mess me up.

Perhaps because my chart is lighter on the alcohol dependence risk factors, I've managed not to go down that road. And, perhaps because I've done some serious healing work around sense of self.

Osamenor 05-13-2018 09:01 PM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by turkish girl (Post 887078)
As she mentioned above,plutonian,neptunian people are tend to be addictive more than others.This guy has a good family,has a good job.But even though he had several heart attacks he can not stop drinking and smoking.

How do you know he has a good family? Based on his chart, I suspect family is the root of the problem.

In general, when people develop addictions, they're responding to family issues. Maybe there are other addicts in the family. Maybe this individual is the only one--or the only one acknowledged--and they're acting out family issues through their addiction, while other family members get to sit back and be self righteous because black sheep alcoholic brother is the drunk and see, I'm not like him.

That is psychology. Astrology, though, is also telling that tale. This guy's Scorpio stellium is in his fourth house--family, roots, skeletons in the closet--and secretive Scorpio. Even if he weren't an addict, I would suspect a lot of family secrets, which directly affect him but which he himself might not even know about.

Saturn squaring it from the eighth adds the suggestion of dark secrets. And, his Saturn/Mars second/eighth house opposition, as part of the grand cross, suggests some big issues around family resources and personal resources, inheritance (could mean physical inheritance like money or property, or emotional inheritance, how his family has affected him emotionally) and self image. This opposition trines and sextiles his north and south nodes, indicating that it's something he's more likely to be inclined to just go along with, than to resist. He is probably using his addiction to blot out the family-related issues rather than confront them head on.

Osamenor 05-13-2018 09:15 PM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston Guy (Post 858864)
The worst part about my drinking is my aversion to sleep, food, and water. I hate going to sleep. Since I started drinking regularly, which was when I was about 18 (I hid it pretty well, my parents didn't really catch on), I typically only sleep for about five hours each night. Breakfast is a dirty word in my mind. And water is just an ingredient of beer to me. Very complicated.

Before you started drinking regularly, did you hate going to sleep? Did you not feel hungry for breakfast? Or is that something that drinking regularly has changed?

What has your family life been like? Are you aware of drinking in response to something going on in your family? Does anyone else in your family drink heavily?

I also suspect family issues in your case. First of all, because they're always present when people develop addictions, though not always known. Second, because of how you have your twelfth house emphasized, and where your Chiron is. Chiron at the IC suggests some deep wound related to family/identity/home. The IC is also indicative of skeletons in the closet--the kind that are really open secrets, would tumble right out if you opened the proverbial closet door. The twelfth house indicates even deeper secrets--the kind that went to the grave with ancestors who died before you were born, but still affect you and the whole family unconsciously.

It's also possible to get an addiction story out of your south node (I just looked at its placement, its ruler, and sketched out a basic story with some creative license). We could say that a past life version of you, or perhaps an ancestor of yours, developed an addiction (SN ruler, Venus, in the twelfth and opposed by Jupiter) in response to a very heavy and difficult situation. So, now, here you are living that out in your present life. Doesn't mean you have to stay that way, but it's a big, lifelong challenge for you to change that pattern, if you choose to change it.

CapAquaPis 05-13-2018 09:31 PM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
My family history is evenly split on how they view, perceive and did alcohol: father's side from a culture like France where he was exposes to wine and beer as early as age 4. and mother's side from the USA who were Baptists don't like to drink anything alcoholic. There is a pattern of alcohol abuse and alcoholism in my father's side, while my mother's Cherokee Indian relatives preferably stayed away from booze. I will have an occasional beer and rarely had wine, but I take anti-depressant/anti-anxiety medications and this regulates my ability to drink or handle heavy volume liquors. I'm an Aquarius sun/moon and Cancer rising, with Neptune in Sagittarius square Mercury in Pisces, this is an indication I should stay clear and far away from most alcoholic beverages.

turkish girl 05-16-2018 01:32 PM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Osamenor (Post 887093)
How do you know he has a good family? Based on his chart, I suspect family is the root of the problem.

In general, when people develop addictions, they're responding to family issues. Maybe there are other addicts in the family. Maybe this individual is the only one--or the only one acknowledged--and they're acting out family issues through their addiction, while other family members get to sit back and be self righteous because black sheep alcoholic brother is the drunk and see, I'm not like him.

That is psychology. Astrology, though, is also telling that tale. This guy's Scorpio stellium is in his fourth house--family, roots, skeletons in the closet--and secretive Scorpio. Even if he weren't an addict, I would suspect a lot of family secrets, which directly affect him but which he himself might not even know about.

Saturn squaring it from the eighth adds the suggestion of dark secrets. And, his Saturn/Mars second/eighth house opposition, as part of the grand cross, suggests some big issues around family resources and personal resources, inheritance (could mean physical inheritance like money or property, or emotional inheritance, how his family has affected him emotionally) and self image. This opposition trines and sextiles his north and south nodes, indicating that it's something he's more likely to be inclined to just go along with, than to resist. He is probably using his addiction to blot out the family-related issues rather than confront them head on.

Why are astrologers are soo good at this site ? lol...nothing catches from their eyes..

Well it was the thread of boston guy so i did not want to change the topic and go into details much.While i was saying good family i was mentioning his sons and his own relation with his parents etc.Definitely he has not a good marriage,they are married for 25+ years i think ,i know that they do not have a strong bond...but i also know he respects and love his wife.Here love is more likely a friendly type of love.I think they have never had passion though.And this ''skeletons in closet'' part actually describes his marriage and some others things related to this which i should not go into details i guess.

Osamenor 05-16-2018 03:57 PM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by turkish girl (Post 887916)
Why are astrologers are soo good at this site ? lol...nothing catches from their eyes..

Well it was the thread of boston guy so i did not want to change the topic and go into details much.While i was saying good family i was mentioning his sons and his own relation with his parents etc.Definitely he has not a good marriage,they are married for 25+ years i think ,i know that they do not have a strong bond...but i also know he respects and love his wife.Here love is more likely a friendly type of love.I think they have never had passion though.And this ''skeletons in closet'' part actually describes his marriage and some others things related to this which i should not go into details i guess.

The skeletons in the closet related to his marriage could be indicated by the eighth house involvement in the grand cross. Eighth house being the spouse's resources, shared resources, and emotional undercurrents of the relationship. If either he or his wife inherited money or property, or inherited debt, or brought a knotty in-law situation into the marriage, that would also be indicated in the sense of inheritance.

But with so much fourth house involved, there's no way his family of origin isn't part of the problem. Doesn't necessarily mean they're bad people or abusive or anything like that. It could simply be that whatever problems the family has had over the generations are manifesting in his addictions. There might be several generations of trauma that no one talks about.

turkish girl 05-16-2018 06:54 PM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Osamenor (Post 887946)
The skeletons in the closet related to his marriage could be indicated by the eighth house involvement in the grand cross. Eighth house being the spouse's resources, shared resources, and emotional undercurrents of the relationship. If either he or his wife inherited money or property, or inherited debt, or brought a knotty in-law situation into the marriage, that would also be indicated in the sense of inheritance.

But with so much fourth house involved, there's no way his family of origin isn't part of the problem. Doesn't necessarily mean they're bad people or abusive or anything like that. It could simply be that whatever problems the family has had over the generations are manifesting in his addictions. There might be several generations of trauma that no one talks about.

Oh maybe,actually now i realised i have not talked much about his father with him because he passed away lots of years ago.I know he loves his mother and bro but his father is a closed box...I usually ask his opinions about guys and he gives me some suggestions about love and relationship stuff and also shared some problems about his married life with me.So i thought main cause is marriage and he diverting his mind away while smoking and drinking.

Lin 05-16-2018 10:48 PM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
"You don't need to worry about me. I'll make out alright! Thanks for the concern, but fortune favors the bold!"

But it doesn't favor the alcoholic. Drinking may not affect you right now, (tho I think you are in denial about this....Neptunianism, by definition, is very much about denial,)
but it WILL - it definitely WILL - and it will affect you mentally, socially AND physically. Physically, by the time you notice a problem, it's usually too late to reverse the problem.

The issue is Neptune. And your inability to overcome the denial about being in control (some sort of self-defining control).

The stronger Neptune IS, the less honest your will be with yourself and others. And because Neptune is the great deceiver, you won't even know what the effect is that you have on yourself and others....until someone is brave enough to let you know.

The first step in AA is, "admit that we are powerless over alcohol." You can substitute "alcohol" for any number of addictions. They are all basically the same. Spending, sexing, hand washing, shopping, eating, serial dating, job changing, drugs......whether behaviors or substances, the slow slide down into the darkness is the same.
LIN

Abby83 05-17-2018 02:09 PM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
This is a good question.

Iím allergic to alcohol. I repeat. Iím allergic to alcohol.

When I was 17 I started drinking alcohol with school friends when going out. What a shame, every single time I drank I ended up spending the night vomiting. I did this at least 6 months and then I gave up and became a health freak. Occasionally (as in once in a few years) I would try alcohol again. Iíd have half a glass of wine and have a one week hangover. If I had a martini or slivovica it burnt and damaged an entire lining of my throat. Couldnít speak for 3 weeks until the new lining has been produced.

Astrologically, 12th house and 6th house mostly shows if you can tolerate alcohol. Mine are both in Virgo, the weakest most sensitive sign when it comes to health. The 12th house is to do with the lymphatic system and how it rids waste. My 12th ruler is venus in detriment. 6th house is to do with the intestines and how it deals with absorption, how tough it is or how sensitive. 6th ruler is mars in Virgo, so itís also sensitive.

Abby83 05-17-2018 02:10 PM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
I don’t think that Neptune and Jupiter is enough to show how you can tolerate alcohol. I mean my asc ruler aspects Neptune and Pluto harmoniously and I’m allergic to alcohol. And my jupiter is in rulership in the first conjunct moon.

Osamenor 05-17-2018 03:18 PM

Re: Alcohol and Our Charts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Abby83 (Post 888263)
Astrologically, 12th house and 6th house mostly shows if you can tolerate alcohol. Mine are both in Virgo, the weakest most sensitive sign when it comes to health. The 12th house is to do with the lymphatic system and how it rids waste. My 12th ruler is venus in detriment. 6th house is to do with the intestines and how it deals with absorption, how tough it is or how sensitive. 6th ruler is mars in Virgo, so itís also sensitive.

My first thought when I read this paragraph was, how can you have the sixth and twelfth houses in the same sign? Presumably you mean their rulers?


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