Why your ascendant is probably wrong!

capuranusnep

Well-known member
I recently started an astrology blog, and thought the info in this article would be useful to you. I will copy most of it here but I suggest you read it on the blog because there are images there that won't seem to post correctly here. Also so you can see and click on other informative links with in the post. Here is the link to the post.

http://dawnknowsastrology.blogspot.com/2017/12/why-your-ascendant-is-wrong.html

WHY YOUR ASCENDANT IS WRONG!
Most people's ascendant figures are wrong. Sometimes the ascendant sign is off by couple degrees back or forward, but often enough someone is an entirely different ascendant sign, usually the most previous one.

For example, your physical birth time(the time on your birth certificate or from a family member's memory) says you a Leo ascendant and sign preceding your Leo ascendant is Cancer. You are shy, reserved, and passive. You have papery and slight coloring, your eyes are soft and sympathetic. You are ruled by your emotions. You have a soft, and some would say low voice. And some how whenever you read the ascendant sign description for Cancer you feel more connected to it, then you do Leo. Guess what? You are not Leo ascendant, you are a Cancer ascendant!

The ascendant rules the personality and physical appearance, if those do not match with your physical birth time then it is wrong. Your true birth time that should be used to draw up a natal chart is the "spiritual birth time". The term is coined by astrologer, John Willner( author of the "The Rising Sign Problem " and "The Perfect Horoscope"). The spiritual birth time is up to couple hours before the physical birth time, or up to 20 minutes after. This is not just the time you took your "first breath" or exactly when you popped out your momma! This is the time your spirit set to incarnate into the physical world.

Most people's birth times being wrong, is why many rationals dismiss astrology, because the birth chart does not match with their personality or life. But once you got the right ascendant figure, the chart will describe you "to a t". You will know the person's field of vocation. Their talents and possible faults. What their relationships will probably be like, etc. You can also predict probable times of hardship and bouts of luck.

I have a couple celebrity chart readings here on this blog that are examples of spiritual birth times. Fred Bickum the owner of the INCARN software( a software used to guide astrologers to correct spiritual birth times) has numerous examples on his own site. Another supporter of spiritual birth times is astrologer Kannon McAfee, who actually found my own spiritual birth time, You can read through Kannon's blog and you will find numerous examples and explanations of spiritual birth times. He is responsible for the majority of the rectifications on this page.



*I will be referring to dwarf planet for the rest of the post, see the delineations HERE.*

* I have not found any other astrologer that uses dwarf planets the way I do, including Kannon. He rectifed most of these charts, and I am using them as examples, but that does not mean he currently uses or plans to use the dwarf planets when reading a chart.*

EXAMPLES

Angelina Jolie is listed as having a soft, shy, and feminine Cancer ascendant conjunct Venus. She is actually Leo ascendant with multiple feminine and masculine planets aspecting the ascendant.(rectified by Kannon Mcafee)

Benedict Cumberbatch is listed as having an aggressively harmonic, pleasing, willful, resourceful/controlling/brash Libra conjunct Pluto and contraparallel Sedna, he is actually a observant/rational/intellectual/perfectionist, but ultra-brash/bossy/ Virgo ascendant with Sedna parallel. (Rectified by Kannon Mcafee)

Madonna is listed as a having a reserved and mercurial Virgo ascendant conjunct Mercury and Moon. She is actually rebellious/confident/fiery Leo ascendant conjunct/parallel Uranus and opposite 2007 OR10. (rectified by Kannon McAfee)

Katy perry is listed as having intense/deep, dark, and emotional but communicative Scorpio ascendant conjunct Mercury and Moon. I am personally in the process of rectifying Katy's chart. I am not sure of the exact degree, she is clearly not a Scorpio ascendant, but an airy Libra ascendant with Eris aspecting. Allowing her to pull of the Kitschy, pin up, cotton candy image she had so long.

Mark Ruffalo is listed as having super extroverted and expansive Sagittarius ascendant square Jupiter and conjunct Sun. He is actually a deep/willful/, nervous, intellectual/excitable/scattered, and imaginative/creative Scorpio Ascendant conjunct 2002 MS4 and Neptune. I personally rectified and intepreted Mark's chart, if you want to read more about his astrological chart click here.

If you are not sure of your ascendant, I provide rectification services and if you are interested contact me. But it might be possible to rectify your own chart, hard but possible, if you are determined enough. Pay attention to transits and progressions during certain life events. And make sure that the ascendant you are trying to confirm matches personality and appearance.

If you very extroverted and expansive thinkng, and your physical birth time shows a Capricorn ascendant(with Sagittarius as the most previous sign), you are probably actually a Sagittarius ascendant. Unless there are planets strongly aspecting the ascendant, or you have multiple planets in Sagittarius.

If you shy/idealistic/imagnitive/creative, and your physical birth time show Aries(with Pisces as the most previous sign) then you are probably actually a Pisces ascendant. Unless there are planety aspects that change this or you have multiple planets in Pisces.

This is not to say that everyone is alway the wrong sign, some people just need to adjust the same ascendant sign by some degrees. See Michael Jackson whose recorded birth ascendant is 10 Pisces but spiritual birth time is 16 Pisces. Or Zoe Saldana whose recorded ascendant is 9 Leo but is actually closer to 1 Leo.

If you would like to learn even more about spiritual birth times, I suggest the late John willner's books "The Rising Sign Problem" and "The Perfect Horoscope". I own both and they have been very helpful to me.
 
Last edited:

obsidianmineral

Well-known member
I recently started an astrology blog, and thought the info in this article would be useful to you. I will copy most of it here but I suggest you read it on the blog because there are images there that won't seem to post correctly here. Also so you can see and click on other informative links with in the post. Here is the link to the post.

https://dawnknowsastrology.blogspot.com/2017/12/why-your-ascendant-is-wrong.html

WHY YOUR ASCENDANT IS WRONG!
Most people's ascendant figures are wrong. Sometimes the ascendant sign is off by couple degrees back or forward, but often enough someone is an entirely different ascendant sign, usually the most previous one.

For example, your physical birth time(the time on your birth certificate or from a family member's memory) says you a Leo ascendant and sign preceding your Leo ascendant is Cancer. You are shy, reserved, and passive. You have papery and slight coloring, your eyes are soft and sympathetic. You are ruled by your emotions. You have a soft, and some would say low voice. And some how whenever you read the ascendant sign description for Cancer you feel more connected to it, then you do Leo. Guess what? You are not Leo ascendant, you are a Cancer ascendant!

The ascendant rules the personality and physical appearance, if those do not match with your physical birth time then it is wrong. Your true birth time that should be used to draw up a natal chart is the "spiritual birth time". The term is coined by astrologer, John Willner( author of the "The Rising Sign Problem " and "The Perfect Horoscope"). The spiritual birth time is up to couple hours before the physical birth time, or up to 20 minutes after. This is not just the time you took your "first breath" or exactly when you popped out your momma! This is the time your spirit set to incarnate into the physical world.

Most people's birth times being wrong, is why many rationals dismiss astrology, because the birth chart does not match with their personality or life. But once you got the right ascendant figure, the chart will describe you "to a t". You will know the person's field of vocation. Their talents and possible faults. What their relationships will probably be like, etc. You can also predict probable times of hardship and bouts of luck.

I have a couple celebrity chart readings here on this blog that are examples of spiritual birth times. Fred Bickum the owner of the INCARN software( a software used to guide astrologers to correct spiritual birth times) has numerous examples on his own site. Another supporter of spiritual birth times is astrologer Kannon McAfee, who actually found my own spiritual birth time, You can read through Kannon's blog and you will find numerous examples and explanations of spiritual birth times. He is responsible for the majority of the rectifications on this page.



*I will be referring to dwarf planet for the rest of the post, see the delineations HERE.*

* I have not found any other astrologer that uses dwarf planets the way I do, including Kannon. He rectifed most of these charts, and I am using them as examples, but that does not mean he currently uses or plans to use the dwarf planets when reading a chart.*

EXAMPLES

Angelina Jolie is listed as having a soft, shy, and feminine Cancer ascendant conjunct Venus. She is actually Leo ascendant with multiple feminine and masculine planets aspecting the ascendant.(rectified by Kannon Mcafee)

Benedict Cumberbatch is listed as having an aggressively harmonic, pleasing, willful, resourceful/controlling/brash Libra conjunct Pluto and contraparallel Sedna, he is actually a observant/rational/intellectual/perfectionist, but ultra-brash/bossy/ Virgo ascendant with Sedna parallel. (Rectified by Kannon Mcafee)

Madonna is listed as a having a reserved and mercurial Virgo ascendant conjunct Mercury and Moon. She is actually rebellious/confident/fiery Leo ascendant conjunct/parallel Uranus and opposite 2007 OR10. (rectified by Kannon McAfee)

Katy perry is listed as having intense/deep, dark, and emotional but communicative Scorpio ascendant conjunct Mercury and Moon. I am personally in the process of rectifying Katy's chart. I am not sure of the exact degree, she is clearly not a Scorpio ascendant, but an airy Libra ascendant with Eris aspecting. Allowing her to pull of the Kitschy, pin up, cotton candy image she had so long.

Mark Ruffalo is listed as having super extroverted and expansive Sagittarius ascendant square Jupiter and conjunct Sun. He is actually a deep/willful/, nervous, intellectual/excitable/scattered, and imaginative/creative Scorpio Ascendant conjunct 2002 MS4 and Neptune. I personally rectified and intepreted Mark's chart, if you want to read more about his astrological chart click here.

If you are not sure of your ascendant, I provide rectification services and if you are interested contact me. But it might be possible to rectify your own chart, hard but possible, if you are determined enough. Pay attention to transits and progressions during certain life events. And make sure that the ascendant you are trying to confirm matches personality and appearance.

If you very extroverted and expansive thinkng, and your physical birth time shows a Capricorn ascendant(with Sagittarius as the most previous sign), you are probably actually a Sagittarius ascendant. Unless there are planets strongly aspecting the ascendant, or you have multiple planets in Sagittarius.

If you shy/idealistic/imagnitive/creative, and your physical birth time show Aries(with Pisces as the most previous sign) then you are probably actually a Pisces ascendant. Unless there are planety aspects that change this or you have multiple planets in Pisces.

This is not to say that everyone is alway the wrong sign, some people just need to adjust the same ascendant sign by some degrees. See Michael Jackson whose recorded birth ascendant is 10 Pisces but spiritual birth time is 16 Pisces. Or Zoe Saldana whose recorded ascendant is 9 Leo but is actually closer to 1 Leo.

If you would like to learn even more about spiritual birth times, I suggest the late John willner's books "The Rising Sign Problem" and "The Perfect Horoscope". I own both and they have been very helpful to me.

But is this proofable? :alien:
 

capuranusnep

Well-known member
But is this proofable? :alien:

In my post, I provide mention two books, that thoroughly prove this. Edgar Cayce actually predicted this. Also if you look up the transits and progressions to the rectified chart in the post and my blog, you will see that they work. And even without all that It is obvious some people are not the ascendant sign their physical birth time suggest. I provided examples.

Isn't this basically akin to switching from tropical to sidereal?

No, this concept is entirely different, it follows western/modern astrology. This actually explains why there is controversy over whether to use sidereal or westen zodiac. Some people look and feel like their most previous Zodiac sign, because their actual spiritual birth time is the most previous sign, not because the western zodiac is wrong.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member

I provided sources and proof. The sources I provided have much better proof.

Astrology is not a topic we should be close minded about.
You know about John Willner. Have you taken time to read any of his books?
Kannon used Incarn and claimed as follows :smile:

Drsendero,

It is revealed through the Incarn software available from Fred Bickum: sbastro.com ...

If you'd like more on this approach you can read the books by John Willner, Astrological Revelations, and The Perfect Horoscope. His book The Rising Sign Problem is also very informative.

I also have a page that explains this in more detail:
https://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/incarnation-process/


I agree. Trump would seem to fit Mars/Leo very well. And there is no doubt this factor exists in his chart. And there is no doubt the recent transit of Jupiter across this Mars point has inflamed and featured this part of his personality.

However, the declinations as you have seen here, tell a story that allows for a different Asc because of the weight of factors in parallel, like a stellium of declination: Sun [23N15] Parallel Uranus [22N57], Pluto [23N50], and Venus [22N51]. It is this Parallel of Sun between Uranus-Pluto that should not be underestimated. Such 3-4 planet parallels act as strongly a set of conjunctions in longitude that can effectively alter the personality typical for the person's correct rising sign. In other words, there is a different anchoring point in the chart that effectively becomes as strong as, if not stronger than the Asc itself.

However, further observation of Trump can also point to his Saturnine nature, Saturn [21N30] being the closest aspect to his Asc [20N37]. Consider his long criticism of President Obama and portrayal of him as "foreign born" in spite of all evidence to the contrary. This reveals a degree of xenophobia, which when considered along with his profound streak of conservatism, points well to Saturn.

Consider how Trump also rarely seems to have criticism for everyone but himself.

He ladels criticism upon all his GOP competitors and Democrats alike, but never leaves room for any aimed at him.
This is a pretty good picture of the worst traits of Saturn/Cancer.
In many ways he's the perfect Scrooge persona, but with more self-aggrandizement.




In pure mathematical terms of Incarn,
there is no possible Asc in the sign of Leo for Trump's date/location of birth
.




This is one of the hardest things for many astrologers to grasp, that one cannot be birthed (enter this dimemsion) just any ole time.
There is a membrane between dimensions that keeps order in the universe, and an inter-dimensional opening must occur for a soul to transfer.
That moment of 'spiritual birth', as it was termed by Edgar Cayce, is the moment of truth --
the decision moment, the real birth -- and cannot be discerned consistently without a psychic or mathematical basis.
This means we use the recorded time as a starting place and find the correct Asc once there is enough evidence to point to it.
Sometimes the difference is very little and the rising sign is unchanged.
Other times the difference is wider, changing the sign on the Asc, but always to match the personality, biography, and precise timing of life events.

This is an advancement in modern astrology.
We don't expect mainstream astrologers who are satisfied with their work to appreciate it or follow.
It is more for those who observe inconsistencies and inaccuracies with the conventional approach.


I'm sure Astro-Intuitive can answer any other questions you might have. He's been with this approach longer than I have, and knew John Willner.
And yet
AFTER SAYING
NO POSSIBLE LEO ASCENDANT FOR TRUMP AS HIGHLIGHTED ABOVE
ON ANOTHER THREAD
KANNON SAID
TRUMP IS LEO ASCENDANT thread at
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24814

i.e.
Here is the widely circulated chart for Donald Trump, empire builder.

picture.php






Here is my proposed adjusted chart for him
(not yet validated by life events).



picture.php





Questions, comments...
.


these natal charts Kannon posted for TRUMP
BOTH HAVE A LEO ASCENDANT
:smile:
yet Kannon practitioner of Incarn
claimed





In pure mathematical terms of Incarn,
there is no possible Asc in the sign of Leo for Trump's date/location of birth
.


This is one of the hardest things for many astrologers to grasp, that one cannot be birthed (enter this dimemsion) just any ole time.
There is a membrane between dimensions that keeps order in the universe, and an inter-dimensional opening must occur for a soul to transfer.
That moment of 'spiritual birth', as it was termed by Edgar Cayce, is the moment of truth --
the decision moment, the real birth -- and cannot be discerned consistently without a psychic or mathematical basis.
This means we use the recorded time as a starting place and find the correct Asc once there is enough evidence to point to it.
Sometimes the difference is very little and the rising sign is unchanged.
Other times the difference is wider, changing the sign on the Asc, but always to match the personality, biography, and precise timing of life events.

This is an advancement in modern astrology.
We don't expect mainstream astrologers who are satisfied with their work to appreciate it or follow.
It is more for those who observe inconsistencies and inaccuracies with the conventional approach.


I'm sure Astro-Intuitive can answer any other questions you might have. He's been with this approach longer than I have, and knew John Willner.
 

capuranusnep

Well-known member
Kannon used Incarn and claimed as follows :smile:


And yet
AFTER SAYING
NO POSSIBLE LEO ASCENDANT FOR TRUMP AS HIGHLIGHTED ABOVE
ON ANOTHER THREAD
KANNON SAID
TRUMP IS LEO ASCENDANT thread at
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24814

i.e.



these natal charts Kannon posted for TRUMP
BOTH HAVE A LEO ASCENDANT
:smile:
yet Kannon practitioner of Incarn
claimed

You are framing it as if Kannon contradicted himself by first saying that Leo ascendant was not possible and then later posting a a rectified Leo ascendant chart for him. When the opposite is true.

I also wanted to note that in both threads linked below you pulled the same thing.

He posted that Leo ascendant on 5-17-2010
when he recently discovered Incarn, and most likely did not have the software that he had at a later date. Not only that, he mentioned that he had not yet verified the ascendant. So in no way did he say that was the right chart, just the chart he was speculating then.

Here:https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24814

he later recanted that Leo ascendant 09-07-2015, at a time he most likely had the software. In the same thread the chart was verified.

Here: https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86544

You are focused on making sure he seems wrong, to the point where you are willing to bend the truth, even lie.

For now that is all I have to say to you. It is a forum continue posting as you please, but don't expect a reply.

Edit: I also wanted to note that when the astrologer that used the incarn birth time for Donald Trump, they said that is was more likely Trump would win over Clinton. You can see the post in the second link I posted.

You can also see another Astrologer(using a spiritual birth time) say the same thing. Here: http://www.sbastro.com/Examples/who2016.htm
 
Last edited:

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
You are framing it as if Kannon contradicted himself by first saying that Leo ascendant was not possible and then later posting a a rectified Leo ascendant chart for him. When the opposite is true.

I also wanted to note that in both threads linked below you pulled the same thing.

He posted that Leo ascendant on 5-17-2010
when he recently discovered Incarn, and most likely did not have the software that he had at a later date. Not only that, he mentioned that he had not yet verified the ascendant. So in no way did he say that was the right chart, just the chart he was speculating then.

Here:https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24814

he later recanted that Leo ascendant 09-07-2015, at a time he most likely had the software. In the same thread the chart was verified.

Here: https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86544

You are focused on making sure he seems wrong, to the point where you are willing to bend the truth, even lie.

For now that is all I have to say to you. It is a forum continue posting as you please, but don't expect a reply.

Edit: I also wanted to note that when the astrologer that used the incarn birth time for Donald Trump, they said that is was more likely Trump would win over Clinton. You can see the post in the second link I posted.

You can also see another Astrologer(using a spiritual birth time) say the same thing. Here: http://www.sbastro.com/Examples/who2016.htm
You are so focused on selling Incarn
that you are willing to make false accusations of lying :smile:
when all that was done
was post quotes of actual comments on Incarn
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Edit: I also wanted to note that
when the astrologer that used the incarn birth time for Donald Trump
they said that is was more likely Trump would win over Clinton.
You can see the post in the second link I posted.
"More likely" is weak, not a direct prediction
whereas
here's a link to a SIDEREAL astrologer NOT USING INCARN who predicted a Trump win :smile:
online on their website on 16 MAY 2016

https://www.facebook.com/notes/kenn...es-trump-have-a-winning-hand/682821141855808/
 

capuranusnep

Well-known member
all you are giving is opinions of opinions and trying to promote your "astrological awakening". why does Kannon merit any consideration about anything. I correctly predicted trump would win but I am not out touting my "miraculous technique." you are simply spewing out suppositions about you statically vapid belief ,everyone has it wrong and you have it right. the only thing you have convinced me of is not waste my time on your blog or whatever it is you are pushing. any astrologer that has to criticize other astrologgers to enhance their "credibility " is a fraud.
for that matter you haven't even delineated a chart here so your standing as a astrologer is bogus to begin with
as for kannon. he is of the mind that david Wilcox is the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce, which is such a wild speculation as to be totally untenable with the facts surrounding Edgar Cayce's life and death.
rahu

Why so rude? Why so agressive about something you do not believe, especially since the majority agree with you. I do not criticize others to enhance my own or others ability, and if it came across that way I apologize.

Did not say anything about a miraculous technique. I also did not say Kannon was the one who predicted trump would win. If you read it, you would know those were different people.

I am not being subjective or just giving "opinions", I have done actual charts. And I wanted to share what I have learned since it has been very helpful to me. Please do not make inflammatory claims just because you disagree with me.

I don't know where you got that info about cayce and wilcox, or how it relates to Kannon, I only brought him up because another user tried to twist the truth about something.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Why so rude? Why so agressive about something you do not believe, especially since the majority agree with you. I do not criticize others to enhance my own or others ability, and if it came across that way I apologize.

Did not say anything about a miraculous technique. I also did not say Kannon was the one who predicted trump would win. If you read it, you would know those were different people.

I am not being subjective or just giving "opinions",
I have done actual charts. And I wanted to share what I have learned since it has been very helpful to me. Please do not make inflammatory claims just because you disagree with me.

I don't know where you got that info about cayce and wilcox, or how it relates to Kannon, I only brought him up because another user tried to twist the truth about something.
fact is you are giving opinions as well as simply advertising :smile:
you are entitled to your opinion
just as we all are entitled to our opinions
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
In my post, I provide mention two books, that thoroughly prove this. Edgar Cayce actually predicted this. Also if you look up the transits and progressions to the rectified chart in the post and my blog, you will see that they work. And even without all that It is obvious some people are not the ascendant sign their physical birth time suggest. I provided examples.



No, this concept is entirely different, it follows western/modern astrology. This actually explains why there is controversy over whether to use sidereal or westen zodiac.

Some people look and feel like their most previous Zodiac sign
because their actual spiritual birth time is the most previous sign
not because the western zodiac is wrong.
the following comment :smile:
i.e.

While I understand that you believe you’re coming from a helpful position
and I understand you are entitled to your own opinion
this information is absolutely false.

Astrology is already hard enough.
If you’re going to do spiritual stuff, look to the 9th, and 3rd house
— but that is it.

Remember, OBJECTIVE, EMPIRICAL data.
When you take your first breath, you are born.
Can’t hamster your way out of thatnobody can.
 

sibylline

Well-known member
I like and get what you're saying here and it's worth looking into for those who don't relate to their Ascendant, especially when it's close to an adjacent sign. On the other hand, it is pushing the idea that the Ascendant operates on its own and overrides other factors when it comes to personality.

For example, a Leo Ascendant could very well be shy and reserved, if say, their Sun is conjunct Saturn in the 4th house. The Sun, and the chart as a whole, will determine whether a Leo Ascendant is outgoing or soft, etc or not. Similarly, Jolie could be Cancer Ascendant (I don't have an opinion on whether she is or not) and still be masculine and tough because of the predominance of masculine signs and her ruler Moon conjunct Mars and Jupiter in Aries at the highest point in the chart.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Cap, I'm skeptical of placing too much emphasis on the rising sign on its own. Sibylline makes some good points.

First-house planets and aspects from other planets to the ascendant can really alter the ascendant sign's expression.

For example, I have Virgo rising. Neat and tidy I am not. My hair has never behaved nicely in my life. It sticks out, a lot. Guess why? Uranus in a close square to my ascendant degree.

Then the other planets count for something. If the sun is one's identity, if the moon is one's emotional nature, and so on; these will normally express themselves as the person becomes more self-actualizing. Also, as other people become acquainted with the individual behind the outward appearances.

Too often, our ideas about signs are based upon popular sun-sign delineations. These take us only so far.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Cap, I'm skeptical of placing too much emphasis on the rising sign on its own. Sibylline makes some good points.

First-house planets and aspects from other planets to the ascendant can really alter the ascendant sign's expression.

For example, I have Virgo rising. Neat and tidy I am not. My hair has never behaved nicely in my life. It sticks out, a lot. Guess why? Uranus in a close square to my ascendant degree.

Then the other planets count for something. If the sun is one's identity, if the moon is one's emotional nature, and so on; these will normally express themselves as the person becomes more self-actualizing. Also, as other people become acquainted with the individual behind the outward appearances.

Too often, our ideas about signs are based upon popular sun-sign delineations. These take us only so far.

Since Virgo is the materialistic (Earth)-sign of Air, having your Ascendant there means it's your "Thought-Palace" that's neatly organized (including much respect for materialistic science)--ESPECIALLY because your Sun is in the Air-sign, Aquarius. [IMO]
 
Last edited:

waybread

Well-known member
Thanks, David-- Your post makes me think of another problem with thinking of the ascendant as fitting what amounts to a popular sun-sign delineation.

I work with house cusp rulers (lords) a lot. I've come across two ways to look at them.

1. "The house over which a planet rules serves the purposes of the house in which that planet stands." (Karen Hamaker-Zondag, The House Connection.)

2. The house cusp ruler would like to help out the affairs of the house it rules. Whether it can do so strongly and favourably or poorly depends upon its own situation in the horoscope. (Demetra George)

So with Virgo rising, it is ruled by my 5th house Aquarian Mercury (retrograde.) In addition to the square from Uranus, essentially my ascendant is "Aquarian-ized" or "Uranian-ized."

Other people will have their own planetary rulers of the ascendant/first house cusp, and these are always worth considering before deciding that a birth time must be off.
 

muchacho

Well-known member
No, this concept is entirely different, it follows western/modern astrology. This actually explains why there is controversy over whether to use sidereal or westen zodiac. Some people look and feel like their most previous Zodiac sign, because their actual spiritual birth time is the most previous sign, not because the western zodiac is wrong.
I know it's a different concept, but in practical terms, same result.
 

capuranusnep

Well-known member
I like and get what you're saying here and it's worth looking into for those who don't relate to their Ascendant, especially when it's close to an adjacent sign. On the other hand, it is pushing the idea that the Ascendant operates on its own and overrides other factors when it comes to personality.

For example, a Leo Ascendant could very well be shy and reserved, if say, their Sun is conjunct Saturn in the 4th house. The Sun, and the chart as a whole, will determine whether a Leo Ascendant is outgoing or soft, etc or not. Similarly, Jolie could be Cancer Ascendant (I don't have an opinion on whether she is or not) and still be masculine and tough because of the predominance of masculine signs and her ruler Moon conjunct Mars and Jupiter in Aries at the highest point in the chart.

I consider the whole chart and how it can change the physical looks, personality, and demeanor. Including the luminaries, and rulerships, and aspects.

Cap, I'm skeptical of placing too much emphasis on the rising sign on its own. Sibylline makes some good points.

First-house planets and aspects from other planets to the ascendant can really alter the ascendant sign's expression.

For example, I have Virgo rising. Neat and tidy I am not. My hair has never behaved nicely in my life. It sticks out, a lot. Guess why? Uranus in a close square to my ascendant degree.

Then the other planets count for something. If the sun is one's identity, if the moon is one's emotional nature, and so on; these will normally express themselves as the person becomes more self-actualizing. Also, as other people become acquainted with the individual behind the outward appearances.

Too often, our ideas about signs are based upon popular sun-sign delineations. These take us only so far.

I understand being skeptical, but I place importance on the "proper" birth time so then we have all the correct angle and house cusps positions(to the exact degree). Also so that we have the correct aspects to the angles. I don't generalize, especially since I think generalizing has tarnished the pratice of astrology.
 

Whoam1

Well-known member
Ok so random though I was born 7:23 am7 degrees saggitarius rising in my preferred chart. I act like a saggitarius rising mixed with a Scorpio rising. Would you attribute this to an earlier spiritual birthtime or my stellium in the previous sign of Scorpio. (The stellium already accounts for why I act like a Scorpio sun). I look like a Capricorn Scorpio Aries mix. My Jupiter is in Aries. Mars in Capricorn. Pluto in Scorpio.
 
Top