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-   -   Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart (https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123493)

david starling 03-31-2019 07:29 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Saggie87RN (Post 961265)
I was unable to offer a more in-depth answer at the time, because I was busy. Issues revolving around power, authority, and intensity has been a dominant theme in my life. People usually have very strong reactions to me. If I really want something, I’m going to obtain. It has (this aspect) given me incredible willpower at times and obsessive tendencies. I don’t surrender easily and can hold grudges. I can be extremely strategic. I possess these traits even with a stellium in Sagittarius (sun, Saturn, Uranus, and possibly Mercury). While Sagittarius has a tendency to have “foot-in-mouth disease,” that is not always the case when Sag Suns have this aspect. The ability to hurt people with our words might be, how should I say, quite intentional. I recommend people with this aspect to not internalize your feelings and find positive physical activities to engage in. A interesting note: me, my brother (mars conjunct Pluto in Scorpio), and my mother (Mars conjunct Pluto in Virgo) all have this aspect! Funny huh?

Do you hide your interest in astrology to avoid criticism by skeptics?

Saggie87RN 03-31-2019 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by david starling (Post 961282)
Do you hide your interest in astrology to avoid criticism by skeptics?

Good question. No, I do not hide my interest in astrology. Also, let me add that I am a good hearted person that likes people. Lol. Also, there there can be positives to the Mars-Pluto aspects such as great willpower, determination, discipline, and the ability to overcome great obstacles just to name a few. The power of Mars-Pluto energy can be harnessed for good.

cindah 03-31-2019 11:02 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Interesting post on the Mars/Pluto aspect. When I saw this in my son's chart, it terrified me at first sight...in the 4th house 4 degress apart and the south node right on Pluto (and this is all in Scorpio). It still scares me but I think the effect of this on him is extreme endurance. He works hard, he works out. He will be 34 in December (a stellum in Sag that includes his sun). Now he's going through a bad divorce with a soon to be 3-yr old. Pluto is transiting through his 7th and boy did he step in it...deep and he's suffering now but I think he will come out good b/cause he loves his little girl and makes sure hes in her life.


He's a really honest and great person...I think all that sagg helps.


What makes it more interesting is that I have the Mars/Pluto opp ... 8 degrees approaching Pluto (M-12/P-6) and his father has this opposition as well...only 1 degree apart (P-2/M-8).



Also, and I have to mention this...I noticed some of my ancestors has Pluto/Mars connections...some were oppositions, some were conjunctions but I need to verify and look into this. I want to use this in a positive way.

Somna7H 04-01-2019 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saggie87RN (Post 961315)
Mars-Pluto aspects such as great willpower

What is Max Orb you consider for above quality ?

Saggie87RN 04-01-2019 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somna7H (Post 961397)
What is Max Orb you consider for above quality ?

To be honest, I don’t know anything about orbs. I was speaking about the general and potential positive traits of this aspect.

Lykanized 04-01-2019 02:06 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cindah (Post 961336)
Interesting post on the Mars/Pluto aspect. When I saw this in my son's chart, it terrified me at first sight...in the 4th house 4 degress apart and the south node right on Pluto (and this is all in Scorpio). It still scares me but I think the effect of this on him is extreme endurance. He works hard, he works out. He will be 34 in December (a stellum in Sag that includes his sun). Now he's going through a bad divorce with a soon to be 3-yr old. Pluto is transiting through his 7th and boy did he step in it...deep and he's suffering now but I think he will come out good b/cause he loves his little girl and makes sure hes in her life.




He's a really honest and great person...I think all that sagg helps.




What makes it more interesting is that I have the Mars/Pluto opp ... 8 degrees approaching Pluto (M-12/P-6) and his father has this opposition as well...only 1 degree apart (P-2/M-8).



Also, and I have to mention this...I noticed some of my ancestors has Pluto/Mars connections...some were oppositions, some were conjunctions but I need to verify and look into this. I want to use this in a positive way.

I think it's more destructive to look at anyone's chart(but probably especially our childrens') and think they're gonna be a certain way because of those charts. I think we'll find greater truths if we explore them as people and instead come to understand various aspects of their charts through understanding them which may result in even drastic reframe. But I do understand... I mean certainly we can potentially use our childrens' charts to help us gain some insight into how to raise them and what to look out for

But I want to give you a positive case study even tho I know your son is much older now. Maybe this can help some others

I think anything related to Pluto and Scorpio tends to be blown all the way out of proportion to where it's not even rooted in truth anymore. It happens for a variety of reasons, but I'll focus on the positive case study instead

My sister has this square along with being very Scorpionic(5 planets in her 10th house in Scorpio, 6 counting her north node) and she's one of the most peaceful and loving people I know to the point these are defining traits of hers. She's not even notably sexual. She doesn't have a horrible temper either. She's very moody, but that's about it. She feels bad when people receive her moodiness as hatred. She's not dark and twisted with any potential at all for abusiveness or manipulation. In fact, she has such a developed and firm ethical system.. I actually think she might be the most ethically driven person I've ever known even aside her being such a genuinely loving, patient, and understanding individual

Her Pluto is also on an angle(10th house) and her Mars very very close to the 8th house(2 degrees away, but in the 7th)

I think that endurance thing is probably gonna be more of a defining characteristic of this aspect than any of the horrifying stereotype ********. My sister's like that as well. The fixed-water comes in and makes these people adaptable and moldable like water, but stubborn as all hell. Nothing can stop these people unless they want it to. And it doesn't necessarily manifest as this fiery, destructive, ruthless energy that will devour anyone in its path like the stereotypes would have us think. It's much slower and more Earthy given that this endurance stems from the fixed nature. It even seems to me to be strangely peaceful. I imagine it like a stream of water flowing across the land and it's not fast nor does it find itself flowing into the rapids. It just flows and flows. And when it approaches a dam, it will follow the process of breaking the dam in its own time, not through exorbitant force or impatience, but a kind of patience that is unbreakable in itself

It's steady and even when in despair, I think these natives might tend to hold that suffering in which can result in suppression which is something I think CAN be destructive if not taken care of
I do have a Mars-Pluto aspect myself, but it's just a milquetoast sextile lmfao



I can see that honesty in my sister too. It's a kind of honesty that can take others by surprise, but it's not driven by illwill, simply the value of honesty and truth. Not to say that I don't think there's potential for unhealthy individuals to be manipulative, but people just tend to blow the destructive traits completely out of proportion where Pluto and Scorpio are concerned


I find that note about the aspect running in your family extremely intriguing. I don't know why it is, but it really seems to me like signs, planetary influence, and aspects can run in families. Mine happens to be extremely Scorpionic. I also looked at my late grandpa's chart and he had the same exact Venus and Mars as mine
I'd love to do an in depth study of this
On a spiritual level, I feel like themes run in families, karmic lessons, but the fact that this can possibly be seen on an astrological level is just..WOW!!


Anyway, I want to add that I'm sending my love to your son. As you've observed, there's this incredible endurance with this aspect. My sister's been through a lot of tough **** in her life and she just keeps pushing and pushing. Nothing gets her down for too long and your son's probably the same way. I think Pluto is imbued with the wisdom to understand why things happen or to at least come to understand it...to understand how to use what's happened to grow and to not let these things hold it back
-So just..I'm sending my love to your son that he finds the meaning in what's happened to him , the 'reason' why it happened and how it's not gonna keep him down

Somna7H 04-02-2019 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saggie87RN (Post 961434)
To be honest, I don’t know anything about orbs. I was speaking about the general and potential positive traits of this aspect.

Thanks!
To be honest but I don't feel any Will Power. Orb under 3° in my case.

david starling 04-02-2019 04:37 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
I attribute willpower to Saturn. Pluto's more "other-worldly" [IMO].

Somna7H 04-02-2019 11:50 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Forget to mention I have Exalted Saturn Conjunct Mars Conjunct Pluto in Libra 5th/6th House.

david starling 04-02-2019 04:34 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Okay, I see I was looking at Saturn from my own viewpoint. I have it in Leo, all by itself.
Must be hard balancing those 3 out!

conspiracy theorist 04-02-2019 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cary2 (Post 961232)
"Potentially dangerous" could be said about any malefic, but here they are. They are in every chart. It is important to avoid seeing Mars/Pluto as some kind of stain or pathology.

No doubt about it, there is danger in the aspect, and the native who sports such an aspect rather likes danger in some way. This pair shows up in many murders and in many cases of revenge.

The Mars/Pluto square is very common in champions. Mohammed Ali, Bruce Lee, and many hard-hitting football players.

The person will display a power or a prowess of some kind. The important thing is to avoid trifling with them. They really hate that. Don't tease them because you are curious about their bad temper. Unh-unh. Especially avoid your passive-aggressive games. They know that you are really being aggressive, but you don't have the honesty or courage to commit to it in an open way. If you are aggressive, then they think you are fair game. They get to the bottom of things rather quickly.

In your opinion, what would a Mars that is influenced by the three outers look like?

Cary2 04-02-2019 07:22 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Those are the instances when Mars is at his worst. Mars is the lesser malefic and really does not cause much trouble until he is aspect to one of the three outer planets. Mars with Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto is at his most dangerous.

david starling 04-02-2019 07:40 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cary2 (Post 961793)
Those are the instances when Mars is at his worst. Mars is the lesser malefic and really does not cause much trouble until he is aspect to one of the three outer planets. Mars with Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto is at his most dangerous.

Any opinion about Yods, as important Aspects?

conspiracy theorist 04-02-2019 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cary2 (Post 961793)
Those are the instances when Mars is at his worst. Mars is the lesser malefic and really does not cause much trouble until he is aspect to one of the three outer planets. Mars with Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto is at his most dangerous.

Do you have concrete examples in mind or in your files?

Somna7H 04-03-2019 01:31 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by david starling (Post 961745)
Okay, I see I was looking at Saturn from my own viewpoint. I have it in Leo, all by itself.
Must be hard balancing those 3 out!

Yes very hard.
According to Western Astrology POV if I able to overcome/balance this then I will become one of the toughest Soul. :D

Cary2 04-03-2019 02:18 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
CP,

I'm sorry; you'll have to find them on your own.

conspiracy theorist 04-03-2019 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cary2 (Post 961864)
CP,

I'm sorry; you'll have to find them on your own.

It's no trouble. I like to pick the brains of experienced practitioners and I appreciate any response I can get from them.

There's a personal component, since I have Ur/Pl=Ma and Ne/Pl= Ma in my chart, and I wanted to compare with people you might have happened to know. I'll take up the investigation independently.

david starling 04-03-2019 05:10 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Cary, what's your take on Yods--meaningful or not important? I mean, do you consider them significant?

ForestFairy 04-03-2019 11:16 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
I do have pluto square mars.
And have lived with a feeling of being 'bad' person, especially when i don't feel well people seem to feel it.

I also have venus moon and mercury at my MC. When i just feel good, people approach me very lovingly.

This contrast made me isolate myself, to hide from people, because i don't want to have bad influence.

Cary2 04-03-2019 02:46 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist (Post 961873)
It's no trouble. I like to pick the brains of experienced practitioners and I appreciate any response I can get from them.

There's a personal component, since I have Ur/Pl=Ma and Ne/Pl= Ma in my chart, and I wanted to compare with people you might have happened to know. I'll take up the investigation independently.

I'm sorry; speculation like that out of context is something I try to avoid. Orbs are so important. The rest of the chart is so important.

I said earlier that angular Pluto and Moon/Mars are often found in charts of bullies, but it is the height of folly to say that everyone with with such aspects is a bully. Forums are full acrimonious disputes because hostile people love to jump to such conclusions. They are looking for something in one of your statements to use against you with the most dishonest motives imaginable.

I know of a seasoned astrologer with an exalted sense of self-importance who condemned Robert Pellitier and his fine book "Planets in Aspect" because he said something unflattering about an aspect in her chart. She probably persecuted me because I unknowingly did something similar. I swear, you find little else in a forum, and you enter at your own risk.

When you go to a forum, you are in the presence of many people like that, and the fact that they identify as astrologers does not matter. Its just one of the many claims they will make that you should reconsider often.

That is why you might see me withdraw from certain things.

Cary2 04-03-2019 03:08 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by david starling (Post 961886)
Cary, what's your take on Yods--meaningful or not important? I mean, do you consider them significant?

Of course that is something that changes from astrologer to astrologer, and astrologers like to defend their pet doctrines.

My opinion is that aspects are harmonics, and there are no minor aspects, except the more "minor" the aspect, the less the orb allowed. Minor aspects near to exact can dominate a chart if most aspects have a wide orb.

I use the quincunx because it belongs to the Twelfth Harmonic, but since 12 is much removed from 1, it deserves only a small orb. A quincunx is usually not very strong if the orb is greater than one-degree, but it is not insignificant if the orb is less than two degrees. If there is a significant aspect to the midpoint of a quincunx, that is a justification for allowing a much wider orb for the quincunx.

Some astrologers attribute the quincunx to death and dying because the angle between 0-deg Scorpio and 0-deg Aries, the zodiac inception, is 150-deg. I do not. I find such reasoning spurious. Some people attribute sickness to the quincunx because 0-deg Virgo is 150-deg from the 0-deg Aries point. I don't use that reasoning, but sickness is often involved because the quincunx usually signifies strain, so does the semi-sextile. This I base on harmonic research. Strain is a good keyword for the quincunx.

I think "mildly beneficial" is a bad interpretation of the semi-sextile.

david starling 04-03-2019 04:46 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
What about out-of-sign Aspects?

Cary2 04-03-2019 04:48 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
I don't understand that question.

david starling 04-03-2019 05:35 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cary2 (Post 961984)
I don't understand that question.

Standard-modern is strict about a Trine, even one with a geometrically tight , 2 or 3 degree Orb, being within Signs of the same Element. I read that the ancient astrologers were less strict about it.
This applies to placements in the 1-2 degree part of one Sign, and the 28-29 degree part of another.

david starling 04-03-2019 08:05 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Cary, as far as you know, did Kepler abandon the Signs, with their Modalities and Elements, and go with Aspects only?


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