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-   -   Ways to heal Chiron wounds (https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9786)

Radu 05-22-2008 06:50 AM

Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Hi people

As Mercury is now in trine with Chiron for quite some time, I thought it'd be a good time to ask about this topic: what do you do about the Chiron wounds, how do you go healing them, are there specific techniques, say directed prayers or meditations?

Thanks.

flea 05-22-2008 08:14 AM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Interesting Question,

Chiron wound needs to be indentified. Most people cover and hide the wound very well so they are not aware of it. My experience is that when you know the issue, and have an intennt to clear and heal it.....all done. The long road to finding that place that you dont want to touch is the hardest and needs the most compassion and security, to ensure your self entity does not splinter from hurt and realisation in the process therefore creating other wounds.

Mercury now trine would help the revelation I suppose, time to retreat and contemplate the cave of the mind.

To get to those places I use a kinesiologist and support from things like art and flower essences etc among other things as I feel I need them.

Love Light Flea

EJ53 05-22-2008 08:34 AM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Hi Radu,

Given the recentness of this planets introduction to astrology, I guess the best we can do on this at the moment is to "fly a few kites" and see where that takes us.

For me, Chiron seems to present individuals with the tasks of recognising, understanding and learning to live with/accept their own unique wound - which can never be healed completely. In general terms, each wound can be recognised by the Chiron sign and the house shows where it impacts most in life. But, that only points the individual in the direction of his/her search to discover the specific way(s) in which it affects/influences them - possibly shown in detail by other features of the birthchart. So the healing process is in the search for self-understanding (in relation to the wound) - and, through achieving the latter, we can become "Chiron healers" ourselves.

As such, this seems to be a planet that may de-skill astrology - making it relatively straightforward for the "uninitiated" to understand/work with the key psychological issue in their chart/personality. But, I'm drifting off-topic here.

EDIT

I agree with Flea's comment - posted whilst I was drafting mine.

Also, as I've pointed out in other threads, pluto has for some time now been dancing over a point that is semi-sextile/sextile the Forum Capriciorn chiron/Aquarius sun - providing opportunities for members to heal its inherent wound. So, for the benefit of anyone interested in doing that, chiron in Capricorn points to a deep-seated "fear of not being heard by those in authority" - which all members have to recognise in themselves/others and learn to live with/accept. (Preachy - but valid nevertheless.)

EJ:)

Jeremy 05-26-2008 11:50 AM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
EJ is for me the top Chironologist on this board and has motivated me to look further into the Chrion topic. I have since read Melanie Reinhart's pioneering work on the asteroid and more recently Martin Lass' work on Chiron too. I now have a copy of Barbara Hand Clow's work on the subject also which is conisidered to be the best of the three (quite possibly - I'll let you know).

EJ's remark about Chiron 'de-skilling' astrology is right on the money by the way; it's a get out of jail free card during consultations for sure :) but I would qualify that by saying it doesn't seem to work until the client has experienced their half-return.

I have been developing my own feeling about the subject of Chiron over this time; and (for what it's worth) it seems to represent an opportunity. I say this because whilst it may well be true that we cannot heal the Chiron wound directly, I think we can transmute it by learning to heal others according to the quality of the Chiron placement. I am frequently counselling those with say Chiron in Taurus who may have body-image and food issues, to think about how they might counsel others with the same problems; this appears to be an extremely effective way of bringing the Chiron wound into the light because invariably they discover that they have real wisdom on the subject which they only become aware of when they are hypothesising about how they would counsel somebody with say, an eating disorder.

This leads me to suspect that the Chiron placement is almost a directive to "heal others or require healing yourself". Logical I think you'll agree considering this insight.

I found that after EJ opened my eyes objectively to the nature of my own Chiron placement that I have been able to really help others with a failing sense of the numinous and divine (Chiron in Pisces).

As for Chiron in Capricorn, one interpretation of that particular placement according to Lass is a wound of being igonored or not taken seriously; seems pretty apt for this forum wouldn't you say? :D

flea 05-26-2008 01:57 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Jeremy,

I like what you say about the capricorn interpretation, I can see the not being taken seriously can hurt big time. I wonder if we will be seeing any stories in the media regarding such wounds.

I am not sure what EJ means by deskilling astrology... is that where the client can really see their own wound and so can counsell themselves to a degree??

Would be cool to have a thread about chiron placements. I kind of think Pisces could also be about a sense of individuality that is lost, being more aware of and part of the continuum. I always had a faith in something bigger, just not able to identify that with human organisations. I was fine when I went my own path, yet still struggle with individuality and a sense of self?

Love Light Flea

Jeremy 05-26-2008 02:44 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
My feeling is with Pisces that Chiron speaks to a loss of faith, this is usually exposed through issues with victimisation, in turn leading to a "why me?" moment which itself opens the pathway to healing through really exploring "actually, good question: why me?" We transform ourselves from being a random victim of blind happenstance into an integral part of a greater and transcendant scheme. Thus it defies logic, defies a breaking down type of understanding (as with the polarity of Virgo).

For you, there is something of that loss of faith connected with the parental axis, something to do with your father being the trigger for a spiritual crisis (maybe the mother of course, 10th/4th conundrum), possibly through being disinterested in you, possibly because he was more interested in his other children or too tied up with his career. Actually, both of these themes seem to be true. Possibly he had an extra-marital affair that was very upsetting for you and caused you to reassess your faith in the benefic nature of the Universe.

Possibly :) I hate trying to interpret things for other astrologers, because just by dint of being an astrologer, a person tends to be slightly more evolved than the run-of-the-mill type, but I am sure you understand that already.

Radu 05-26-2008 09:40 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
As EJ said, I find the process of self-understanding my personal Chiron wound quite difficult. This is because I'm constantly using an approach based on other people's patterns of dealing with that topic. I haven't found my own yet.

This is why I was particularly inspired by Jeremy's comment:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy
I am frequently counselling [...] to think about how they might counsel others with the same problems; this appears to be an extremely effective way of bringing the Chiron wound into the light because invariably they discover that they have real wisdom on the subject which they only become aware of when they are hypothesising about how they would counsel somebody

A perfect meditation topic!

Off meditating...

http://www.sufimeditationcenter.com/...meditating.jpg

Julie 05-26-2008 10:23 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
I am not sure I will ever really get the meaning of my Chiron in Taurus/9th. Although with readings I have got from different forums. Everyone thinks I would do well being a teacher to young people. I can't even teach myself never mind the little one's :rolleyes: . Probably has a lot to do with my Venus/Jupiter 5th/11th axis, yet Chiron squares my Jupiter in 11th. I think there is a wound about a lot of things in life. Chiron is often a hard won wisdom.

In Anguish the centaur seeks to pull the arrow from his thigh. But all his instinctive skill and knowledge cannot take away the pain he suffers, nor heal the wound of it's corrosive poison. Yet despite the darkness which surrounds him, the light of the Sun illuminating with merciless clarity that implacable unfairness of life which constitutes the true nature of his hurt - can draw forth wisdom and compassion to render bearable that which cannot be changed. ~ Liz Greene.

flea 05-27-2008 05:32 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Jeremy,

I know what you mean..... insights from others always help you see things from different persepctives. I am very aware of my child wounds, done heaps of family focused healing/investigation. I yes there was a huge division between me and both my parents that has closed over the last few years. I suppose astrology illustrates the gulf... they dont get it, ridicule it even or show a fear. So the lack of interest derives in part from me having different aims ideas thoughts etc that are naturally not received by them. As a child that is a hugely defeating experience just as you are starting to form your own just formed gooey perceptions of life yourself.

So mypotential gift of chiron maybe an understanding the imperceptible wounds a child experiences so deeply yet is of no concern to the parents because it is beyond their ken is some way. A child does not need to hear right or wrong, just listened to, and attended to, as the self learns in its own sweet way. It was neither strong father or mother incident, just lots of little things... and it was the littleness of the things that was significant, and deep. Career and affairs would be the obvious ones, but neither touched me, I suppose it was the ordinariness of events that made them so wounding.....

So that brings me back to the wounding of self..... At the same time I was designed to be perceptive to these occurances, other people it may not have touched at all....

Love Light Flea

tsquare 05-27-2008 06:02 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
I don't know if it's better to dig for this bugger in a chart, or through simply working with recalls of ones past, starting there instead....
If one uses the chart I have had the theory that mabie the first chiron oppositon may show some insight into the first this life moment of the deep wound that may repeat itself as it roles along the chart, showing up specifically in squares, mabie easy times durring trines.
Mabie by checking out that specific aspect, then by a loose form of date and locate through concious recall....
There is also the problem of this being a deep wound, so I imagine layers of dub in...inactual copies of the asctual incident..it is hard to get accurate copies of traumas.....at least at a first pass and it can be vey painfull....
But I would say confronting the first moment of the wound would either cool this wound off or handle it for eternity.......yet is one ready for that?
THe mind tends to block out that which one can't handle, as a form of protection, yet sometimes it does too good a job.

The thing that bothers me about chiron is that, NOBODY, can help others in an area that they canot help themselves in....it is a bit like learning from a failure...what good does it do? THere is the old saying, those that teach can't do...that isn't always true, yet it seems the true experts would rather be doing then teaching unless they feel a real need to spread information and knowledge for the pure sake of the subject matter, to make a difference....


It seems to be similar to an unconfronted personal aspect of life, in which one seeks to escape the wound and having experienced it, while extroverting it on those that have a similar, even if they may have similar, "saving" them from the trouble that "they" have had, when it is really the trouble one has had theirself.
With chiron it seems that helping others is an escape from dealing with personal issues, that were painfull enough to throw one out of ones own identity and path......


Trouble is, the word heal, it means finished, done, for eternity, cleared up....not a cover up of symptoms........We can save the world or others from things that have happened to us in the past, a survivng victim may make it their duty to save other to be victims, yet do they ever get over the wounding incident and live their lives again, without that sense of duty...? It is in a way selfish, and caused by not healing ones own wound, because it is, "unhealable"...and if so it may be very very deep wound..
Can we really learn to help ourselves, in a specific area, by first helping others, in that area, which we canot actually do very well ourselves?
Or is this simply the cause of a trama?

The above is speculation of course......and I feel a bit off of it....
Tsquare

Nexus7 05-27-2008 07:42 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
I am stilkl trying to get a sense for Chiron too, here were endless arguments on one forum I know where it was questioned whether or not it really was as much about self-wounding as has so far been claimed. It was suggested that it was more to do with where we sabotage ourselves.

It made its second and last pass to my Moon recently and not I have had the Chiron return. Good okld Liz Greene linka it to the change of life, and I hope, not just yet, anyway, it has fallen a couple of years shy of the prescribed one and fifty.

Maybe my Chironic placement does insure against follow any particualr party line 100%. That is what occurs me now, there were expereinces that look place that certainly did, well, reopne old wounds from the point of view of getting caught up in internet politics, elsewhere.

flea 05-28-2008 11:36 AM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
I think of chiron as interactive and fluid.... You work with your stuff.... or you do in my case.....experiencing self good and bad, this time and not... etc etc etc. It is not prescriptive... so as always the 100% party line obscures the details and only focuses on a particular result. It is a boundless story that we unfound ourselves, and chiron and its pattern in the chart can only guide what we are open to and ready to deal with.

Love Light Flea

EJ53 05-30-2008 05:17 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flea
I wonder if we will be seeing any stories in the media regarding such wounds.

Here in the UK, Hauliers blocked motorways last week with a mass "slow drive" to London to protest (yet again) that the government is refusing to take seriously their complaints about rising fuel prices threatening to bankrupt their businesses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flea
I am not sure what EJ means by deskilling astrology... is that where the client can really see their own wound and so can counsell themselves to a degree?

Chiron is said to be a "bridge between Saturn/Uranus/Jupiter" because of it's orbit path - but a bridge to what? I'm speculating that (using the grounded/earthed wisdom of jupiter) Chiron will bridge the restricted (saturn) view of astrology (uranus) - making it available to the masses (uranus) rather than the indoctrinated (saturn).

As an example, it took me over 15 years to learn from my chart that the source of my problems in life is a "deep-seated fear of being manipulated by others" - only to find out about six months ago that this accurately describes my Chiron placement in Scorpio/3rd house. Had I read that (and been ready to face it) 15 years ago, the underlying detailed astrological problems in my chart would have become clear to me almost immediately - because they are merely symptoms/effects of that one underlying cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flea
Would be cool to have a thread about chiron placements.

It would.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flea
I kind of think Pisces could also be about a sense of individuality that is lost, being more aware of and part of the continuum. I always had a faith in something bigger, just not able to identify that with human organisations. I was fine when I went my own path, yet still struggle with individuality and a sense of self?

This is why I think Chiron is about "individuals" working on their own unique wounds. Generally, Chiron in Pisces can be about anything associated with that sign - victimisation, fear of being hurt, loss of faith, etc. So, only the individual can know what it means for them specifically - but, astrologically, they now have fewer places to look for the root cause of their problems. And, my guess is that people will soon be discussing their respective "chiron wound" signs as readily as they now do with "sun signs".

Speculating rather than campaigning for padded walls at home.

EJ:)

tsquare 05-31-2008 02:25 AM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
If you want to teach someone a subject you do not know yourself, let him measure the length of some object unknown to you, and he will learn the measure you did not know before.- Leonardo Da iVinci

blueheron 05-31-2008 03:32 AM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Radu
As EJ said, I find the process of self-understanding my personal Chiron wound quite difficult. This is because I'm constantly using an approach based on other people's patterns of dealing with that topic. I haven't found my own yet.

This is why I was particularly inspired by Jeremy's comment:



A perfect meditation topic!

Off meditating...

http://www.sufimeditationcenter.com/...meditating.jpg




My chiron is conjunct my Jupiter in Libra (1st house.) And my relationship problems have only strengthened me. Each one seemed karmic, and though the romantic tragedy thing did occur, in some Right Action uncanny way, each one greatly illumined me further on my path.

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...ndleprayer.gif

EJ53 05-31-2008 07:54 AM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy
As for Chiron in Capricorn, one interpretation of that particular placement according to Lass is a wound of being igonored or not taken seriously

Jeremy
I'm using Lass too and suspect the semantics here may be important. He seems to invariably refer to chiron wounds as creating feelings/fears. So, the wound quoted above is one of "feeling ignored or not taken seriously."

This seems pedantic, but my view is that all psychological/chiron wounds stem not from what happens to us but from how we felt at the time or fear will happen in the future. For example, as Flea states, what "wounded" her might have gone unnoticed by a less sensitive child. So, the key to "healing" is confronting our "feelings and fears". How they originated might not even need to be addressed, thereby enabling us to avoid re-opening wounds/memories that we might never be ready to face.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Julie
I am not sure I will ever really get the meaning of my Chiron in Taurus/9th...... Probably has a lot to do with my Venus/Jupiter 5th/11th axis, yet Chiron squares my Jupiter in 11th.

Julie

You probably know this already but my view is :-

According to Lass, Chiron in Taurus/9th creates feelings of insecurity that affect how you conduct your 9th house affairs. But only you will ever know what that means (assuming you tell no-one) - because it cannot be ascertained from the chart alone (as others have pointed out).

The Venus/Jupiter/Chiron T-Square will reveal how the wound is affecting you, but not what it is. You can resolve the problems of Venus/Jupiter by changing the "undesirable" behaviour patterns - but, the Chiron wound can only be eased by confronting the hidden feelings/fears/insecurities which are the cause of those patterns.

EJ:)

EJ53 06-01-2008 11:48 AM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flea
..... insights from others always help you see things from different persepctives...so mypotential gift of chiron maybe an understanding the imperceptible wounds a child experiences so deeply yet is of no concern to the parents because it is beyond their ken is some way.....

Flea
Maybe your chiron gift is to provide the insights that help others to see things differently? Learning to do so without self-consciousness then becomes the purpose of the childhood trauma; constantly having those insights explains the pluto/uranus focus (and chiron tail) in your natal chart and relating to a wide spectum of people/others clarifies why (natally) seven of your planets contact chiron. My guess is that not confronting the chiron wound was never an option for you - it's a "calling".

And who knows what happens when progressed/transitting planets pass through 17-21 degrees of Taurus - setting off the incomplete natal hexagon formed by chiron/mars/neptune/uranus+pluto/moon?

EJ:)

Jeremy 06-01-2008 04:32 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EJ53
This seems pedantic, but my view is that all psychological/chiron wounds stem not from what happens to us but from how we felt at the time or fear will happen in the future.

Have no fear: Ur/Pl rising in Virgo; I have no fear of pedanticism :) Actually this is the great marvel of the subjectivity/objectivity paradigm of astrology and illustrates it very well.

Now speaking of Lass; I found the book to be very difficult reading; I am considered to be reasonably clever (despite my Neptune in the 3rd - I learn by absorption) but I had to really muster my focus to make sense of it. I think it was the style, rather than the content (what is that? style under content?) I also read Melanie Reinhart and found that to be (often) plain wrong. It was early for the subject though, but I really felt that she was just trying to underwrite her own erudition. Now I am onto Babara Hand-Clow and I am finding it so much easier going. I must recommend it.

I am working with a very interesting case just now of a Sa/Ch square, actually Sa is t-squared in Leo/6th from a Ur/Ch opposition. This suggests a big problem with the father which is borne out by Sun conjunct Venus. Isn't it the case that this is often found in parent-child relationships where the father turns into a big disappointment? I have seen it a few times. I have asked my client about this and she is composing her thoughts as I write this - so you can read something into that for sure :eek:

The only other Sun aspect is a tight square to Pluto which crossed natal Moon by solar arc at age 23. I am intrigued to hear the story but the point for me is the configuration of Saturn with Chiron, which indicates wounds incurred from the father, but evidently with Chiron it is just about as subjective as it gets, as you say.

I am rambling :) but I do have a point in here somewhere. Hand Clow talks about Chiron representing the alchemical transmutation of Saturn to Uranus (base metal to gold, suffering to emancipation, rigidity to freedom and so forth) and actually it is fascinating to me how important Chiron is suddenly becoming. Buzz-phrases like "paradigm-shift" are making their way into language with bizarre frequency, but it all started when I was studying Java programming at college 15 years ago and my lecturer's couldn't go a single lecture without mentioning the paradigm shift between procedural and object-oriented languages. Now paradigm shifts are everywhere and nowhere more so than in the internal debate raging in us all about the transmutation of base metal into gold (or money into true wealth, materialism to spiritualism, whatever). This is the vibration of Chirotic energy in the world surely?

I am going to digress just a second because this for me has an application to the argument between traditionalists and moderns in astrology: namely that the evolvement of consciousness shrugs off the limitations of static rulerships; we have known that Uranian forces are at work but we call them generational because it takes an improbable leap to straddle the alchemical divide, it is too far to go, so traditional rulerships are enough, but then along comes Chiron and we can bridge the gap and personalise Uranus at last.

I am growing dissatisfied with some dogma regarding Chiron; not least because it is such a new study and even the experts seem confused quite often. If Chirotic energy is so new then it is a new skill to work with it for sure, who is to say that utterly untypical responses are not possible? I am not convinced that we cannot heal Chirotic wounds, maybe it is tied up in the concept of healing because we can always heal more.

I would liken this to my understanding of solar force in the nativity: if you are a Scorpio, you can never be powerful or controlled enough. If you are Leo you cannot ever be powerful and magnanimous enough, even if you are King Arthur, you could still improve you will think, in your kingly majesty.

I think the key message of Chiron is "heal or require healing." This presents us with a stark choice to either become a healer or become ill. Actually Chiron himself did heal, by the selfless act of sacrificing his greatest gift to ease the suffering of Prometheus. Actually even this is slightly misleading because it was not actually selfless; he was miserable living in pain this way.

So we all are. We are miserable living our selfish, grasping lives, and then we make a paradigm shift and by giving up our time and energy to the objective of healing others (without thought of material reward), we realise the great leap in consciousness that bridges the yawing chasm between Saturn and Uranus (and maybe beyond).

That's my view, but I am still working on it :)

EJ53 06-01-2008 06:21 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Tsquare

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare
I don't know if it's better to dig for this bugger in a chart, or through simply working with recalls of ones past, starting there instead....

I like this very apt spelling of chiron - and agree that "healing" the wound requires recall/confrontation of the past. But, I have a feeling that "easing" the wound might be enough - by accepting/addressing its effects in the present rather than its cause(s) in the past. Maybe this is a wound that we shouldn't even try to heal - maybe the message is "you are who you are - so, live with it".

Quote:

If one uses the chart I have had the theory that mabie the first chiron oppositon may show some insight into the first this life moment of the deep wound that may repeat itself as it roles along the chart, showing up specifically in squares, mabie easy times durring trines.
Mabie by checking out that specific aspect, then by a loose form of date and locate through concious recall....
You've really hit on something with this! As suggested, I checked on my chiron half-return, and the memory bank reminded me instantly that this was the most soul-searching time of my life :-

According to Martin Lass, my Scorpio/3rd chiron wound creates a "feeling that the world is against us, that others seek to bring us down, that others may be plotting against us, and/or that others manipulate us and/or undermine us". And at the chiron return, I was threatening to become a "whistle-blower" unless a UK professional body changed the first/most important rule in their Code of Ethics. Anyone who is/has been a member of such an institution will understand just how isolated/manipulated/undermined that made me feel at the time - but, suffice to say, pray it never happens to you or anyone you care about. (The rule was changed but, in the circumstances, I could no longer remain in that profession - so "well done you then" said my wife/children.)


Quote:

There is also the problem of this being a deep wound....it can be vey painfull....But I would say confronting the first moment of the wound would either cool this wound off or handle it for eternity.......yet is one ready for that?
My wound stems from being manipulated by my mother from as far back as I can remember...........I was able to confront it only after her death, when I was 45 years old.........and it still hurts now, at the age of 60.

Quote:

....it is a bit like learning from a failure...what good does it do?
There is a rare breed that learns from the mistakes of others......and I've been an excellent source of material for some of them.

But, you're referring here to those who fail to confront rather than those who make mistakes whilst doing so..........so perhaps the lesson there is that we should confront.

Quote:

It seems to be similar to an unconfronted personal aspect of life, in which one seeks to escape the wound and having experienced it, while extroverting it on those that have a similar, even if they may have similar, "saving" them from the trouble that "they" have had, when it is really the trouble one has had theirself.
With chiron it seems that helping others is an escape from dealing with personal issues, that were painfull enough to throw one out of ones own identity and path......
Every chiron wound seems to be unique/personal and probably has to be confronted "alone" - perhaps eventually removing entirely the role of third party support mechanisms, such as astrologers and psychologists.

Quote:

Trouble is, the word heal, it means finished, done, for eternity, cleared up....not a cover up of symptoms........
I have a problem with this too - it's the wrong word (and therefore may be sending us in the wrong direction). In mythology, the pain of chiron's wound stopped only when he died/gave up his immortality - until then, he showed people that it is possible to be in great pain ourselves yet be concerned only with helping others. So, is Chiron about healing or about helping/easing the pain of others without any thought for ourselves?

Quote:

The above is speculation of course
And it may be some time before we can do anything other than that.

EJ:)

smilingsteph 06-02-2008 01:51 AM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Chiron wounds,
Hell it has been awful. I have become so verbally nasty, I am telling people off left and right- only to feel really good about giving it to them. I then feel badly after the incident and apologize, I feel better afterwards, but I know it is unhealthy.
Chiron is opposing my mars too, I have been short tempered lately and I have been releasing this energy by running, working out and remembering to take my time.

blueheron 06-02-2008 02:13 AM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Well you people finally have me looking at chiron. I guess that dates me.
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...anaar/whew.gif

It seems like everyone is snap, crackling, and popping these days. I'm wondering if this might have something to do with chiron's conjunction with Neptune in Aquarius.

Maybe the collective mind is Aquarianizing? Rebelling? Craving humanitarianism? Ovewhelmed with electronic tech? Spiritually yearning for equality? Demanding respect for human rights, and individuality? Paradigm shifting?


http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...uarius-3-1.jpg


Hmmmmm..........

EJ53 06-02-2008 08:13 AM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Nexus7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus7
.....It was suggested that it was more to do with where we sabotage ourselves.

This has been the result of my "chiron wound driven" actions, appearing in every house area but always relating to inappropriate communicating by me. So, I'd say how we sabotage ourselves rather than where - but the suggestion seems valid to me.

Quote:

....Maybe my Chironic placement does insure against follow any particualr party line 100%.
This is an astute observation, but I suspect it may turn out to be a characteristic of the planet itself rather than it's placement. Maybe that's why (everytime I/others consider the meaning/role of chiron) I find myself questioning the currently accepted texts/expert opinions on astrology generally.

Flea

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flea
....chiron and its pattern in the chart can only guide what we are open to and ready to deal with.

Agree fully. And, when we are open/ready, I suspect chiron will guide without the need for input from experts/professionals/etc. "When the student is ready, the master/chiron will appear" - delivering a message that only the specific individual concerned can hear/understand.

Tsquare

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsquare
Having computer probs, overheating.



I think you may have picked up a virus at the site protesting about Tibet.

Jeremy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy
...Lass.......Reinhart......Hand-Clow

I'm finding that timing is the key to acquiring the best publications on most astrology topics - the latest incorporates all that has proved valid in previous publications; generally adds something and often is much clearer. Or am I just being cynical here?

In reality though, my guess is that you are learning more about Chiron through your client consultations than you ever will from books.



Quote:

....this for me has an application to the argument between traditionalists and moderns in astrology....


I'm hoping the traditionalists don't know where you live.:D

Maybe the orbit is symbolic too - bridging Jupiter/traditional/pisces and Uranus/modern/aquarius and Saturn/traditional+modern/capricorn. So, I'm thinking in terms of Astrological Ages :-

"give someone a fish and feed one for a day" (pisces) - "teach someone to fish and feed one for life" (aquarius) - "organise the fishermen into an efficient unit and feed everyone for life" (capricorn).

For me, the key (I'm using that chiron word a lot these days) is that chiron merely "acknowledges" Jupiter/traditional but strongly embraces Saturn/traditional+modern on it's way to Uranus/modern - and Capricorn (not Aquarius) is the more advanced Age. So, both traditionalists and modern seem to have a definite place in the "chiron plan".


Quote:

I am growing dissatisfied with some dogma regarding Chiron...
I feel the same way about astrology generally. For me, questioning the dogma seems to be a chiron trait.


Quote:

I am not convinced that we cannot heal Chirotic wounds, maybe it is tied up in the concept of healing because we can always heal more
At present, my view is that the wound cannot be healed. In my own case, I can live with the wound and removing/healing it would destroy some of my fondest memories of my mother. Maybe it could be done - but I would not be the same person afterwards (the chiron death?), and not neccessarily a better one either.

Smilingsteph

This all seems very healthy to me - apart from the nastiness. Justifeid anger should always be expressed - otherwise how do people know they have offended you and decide whether or not they need to change anything? The problem is that we are conditioned to see anger as negative - even when used assertively and with constructive intentions.

Blueheron

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueheron
......I guess that dates me.

You "outed" yourself on another thread (to-day is my birthday) - confessing to being even older than me! Maybe the fact that we've completed a chiron cycle will prove particularly helpful on this thread though.


EJ:)

smilingsteph 06-02-2008 04:16 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Thanks EJ!!!
I feel a million times better releasing anger, pain and hatred through an activity that releases that physically rather than verbally,
My thought:
What do you do when you are hurt?
Write, yell, sing, paint, organize????
Well do that then!
I tend to yell, so this is not conducive to being around people, so I displace my anger through sports....

EJ53 06-02-2008 05:25 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smilingsteph
Thanks EJ!!!
I feel a million times better releasing anger, pain and hatred through an activity that releases that physically rather than verbally,
My thought:
What do you do when you are hurt?
Write, yell, sing, paint, organize????
Well do that then!
I tend to yell, so this is not conducive to being around people, so I displace my anger through sports....

Hi Smilingsteph,

We may be thinking slightly differently here. To me, releasing anger = letting go of the emotion - whilst expressing anger = stating how you feel (and why) to those who made you angry. We owe it to ourselves to release anger - and we owe it to others to express it (assertively).

With regard to releasing anger then, your thought seems excellent to me. But should we express it assertively; express it aggressively or not express it at all?

EJ:)

blueheron 06-02-2008 06:17 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Quote:

With regard to releasing anger then, your thought seems excellent to me. But should we express it assertively; express it aggressively or not express it at all?
Decode the anger, and find the sorrow behind it. Then you can cry it off.

EJ53 06-02-2008 07:25 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blueheron
Decode the anger, and find the sorrow behind it. Then you can cry it off.

Hi Blueheron,

Again, this is excellent advice for releasing the emotions.

But should we (unemotionally, objectively and constructively) express our anger to those who (unintentionally) caused it or not?

EJ :)

blueheron 06-02-2008 08:55 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EJ53
Hi Blueheron,

Again, this is excellent advice for releasing the emotions.

But should we (unemotionally, objectively and constructively) express our anger to those who (unintentionally) caused it or not?

EJ :)

I don't know. I try to not do this because I think it's rather like pouring gasoline on a fire. If I can get my anger decoded, there's some hurt festering deep within it. I've found that I can handle the pain of grieving much better than the pain of rage (but then my mars is in Libra.)

However, sometimes there doesn't seem to be any other option but to roar.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...6c017259-1.jpg

EJ53 06-03-2008 06:37 AM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blueheron
I don't know. I try to not do this because I think it's rather like pouring gasoline on a fire. If I can get my anger decoded, there's some hurt festering deep within it. I've found that I can handle the pain of grieving much better than the pain of rage (but then my mars is in Libra.)

However, sometimes there doesn't seem to be any other option but to roar.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...6c017259-1.jpg

Good/enlightening answer Blueheron - and superbly expressed. For me, it evokes the image of the lion roaring without malice; to avoid being aggressive and to inform others that they may have a problem - as I believe we should aim to do when/by expressing our anger.

Thanks:sunny:

starlink 06-03-2008 10:01 AM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Hi everyone, I am late coming to this thread, was one week totally occupied with family matters:
I like what Liz Green has written on the topic Chiron
Quote:

In Anguish the centaur seeks to pull the arrow from his thigh. But all his instinctive skill and knowledge cannot take away the pain he suffers, nor heal the wound of it's corrosive poison. Yet despite the darkness which surrounds him, the light of the Sun illuminating with merciless clarity that implacable unfairness of life which constitutes the true nature of his hurt - can draw forth wisdom and compassion to render bearable that which cannot be changed. ~ Liz Greene.


This is exactly how I see it as well. I dont think we can ever heal our wounds. Easy or difficult aspects to Chiron might show how easy or how difficult it is for us to help others with the same problems or how much effort (squares, conjunctions,) we are putting into "healing" others with similar wounds. Trines could show less effort put into these things. I dont know, just guessing, but really healing yourself, I dont think so. We can learn to live with it, accept it, but never get rid of it.

In my experience, whereever Chiron is found in the chart, we find the most sensitive and difficult area of our life. In the 9th, like Julie's Chiron, I have had seen several times a great disappointment in oneself, even shame, to not having been able to get a degree (university) in some subject, and especially the first time the person failed, it puts a stamp on his or her self-esteem. This "failure" goes like a red tape through their lives and influences lots of decisions and often the person decides to really start developing that area to compensate for the "wound", like doing all sorts of studies where he/she does succeed and indeed often they then also want to teach others what they have learned.
Probably the "wound" feels like that because of the reaction that person got from others at the time and which made for such a negative impression or a feeling of shame.

Chiron in the 3rd might show a lack of lower education or "only" having a basic school education which for some seems to be too little whilst for others it is OK.

In talking to clients I think we just have to make a suggestion, we have to ask them and see what the answer is. It could also be (in the 9th) a feeling of not beeing all-round, not having enough general knowledge or cultural knowledge, whatever, or it could have to do with religion (which is condemmed by others) for instance.

Cheers, Starlink

EJ53 06-03-2008 11:01 AM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by starlink
I am late coming to this thread.....

Hi Starlink,

I was wondering why you'd not commented on this thread - but now that you have, it was worth the wait.

Quote:

....really healing yourself, I dont think so. We can learn to live with it, accept it, but never get rid of it...........(it's) the most sensitive and difficult area of our life.......goes like a red tape through (the life) and influences lots of decisions and often the person decides to really start developing that area to compensate for the "wound" ......
I agree completely with this. For me, the wound is so much a part of "who I now am" that I'd choose to live with it rather than have it healed and risk the possibility of becoming a "different person" that I might not even like.

Quote:

In talking to clients I think we just have to make a suggestion, we have to ask them and see what the answer is.
This might prove to be the most important chiron lesson for astrologers. Maybe it's all we ever should do/have done anyway.

EJ:)

Julie 06-03-2008 12:35 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Thank you Ej and Starlink on your interpretations of my Chiron in 9th, I think you are both right (I won't go into details it's too painful :p ) I do genuinely think where Chiron is placed is a painful place to be, I think it is too hard for me to really analyse what it means. I do think I could have done more with my life, maybe intellectually but my confidence has always been very low. I also do try to compensate for it and will study a lot on different subjects, my bookshelf is getting crammed. Disappointments and bitterness are in the 9th house and my self worth probably does feel wounded.

Thank you both, I am a bit late getting back to the thread as I have been busy, it doesn't mean I haven't read the interpretations. I always appreciate it ;) .

autumnleaf 06-03-2008 02:10 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
What a great thread on Chiron! Many thanks to you all for showing there's more than one way to look at our personal placements and aspects. Especially where Chiron is concerned since we all have wounds to heal.

starlink 06-03-2008 04:43 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
I decided to also have a look at the midpoints of Chiron to other planets, especially Sun, Moon, Pluto,Mars (both Asc. rulers) and Venus (Sun ruler).

Natally I have Chiron in the 12th house (probably quite similar to Chiron in Pisces), in Scorpio at 4, so that pain is really deeply hidden and the three aspects it makes are a square to Saturn (yes, being ignored is a possibility. In my case I think some hurt done by the father as well). Saturn also is ruler of my 3rd. , An inconjunct to the North Node at 2 Gemini in 7th and an opposition to Mercury in the 6th.
I have , through own experience) noticed that indeed the 3rd house, elementary school experiences, have been very painful for me. So Saturn does not only show lessons, limitations and difficulties to overcome, but the house it rules becomes very important in the Chiron experiences. I had a very difficult time in school, pestered by the other children and yes, ignored as well, AND also a female (Indonesian)teacher who always made fun of me in front of the whole classroom. I will never forget that.

Mercury rules my 11th, friends. Chiron's opposition shows few friends out of fear to be hurt I guess. I am and always have been very self reliant because of that and yes, lost faith in (the goodness?) of others (inconjunct NN in 7) and the 8th, life and death situations, transformation and facing crisis and support from others. Especially this last one. I never ask. I rather do everything alone than ask for help. Chiron experiences helped (what am I saying? forced me to transform myself.

Still, there is a lot of 12th house stuff I have not yet been able to un-dig really. I know it is there, but have no idea how to get at it, unless I let myself being hypnotised and I am afraid of that to be true. I really am afraid what would come up (square to Saturn again) and rather not know.

Back to the midpoints. One immediately caught my eye, the Chiron //Sun falls at 9 Leo in my chart and what is going to happen in August on 9 Leo? Yessurree, the total Solar Eclipse!!! I will keep a good eye on this one and will let you guys know what life throws at me then (IF it does of course).

Would midpoints between Chiron and other planets be of interest you think?

Must run, cheers, Starlink

EJ53 06-03-2008 05:45 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Julie/Autumnleaf/All

I'd also like to thank everyone who has posted on this thread, which enabled me to work through what (I hope) might be the final stages of confronting/learning to live with my own Chiron wound.

Having done so, I agree with Jeremy that the wound might not be confrontable (or even apparent) before the first Saturn Return - which may explain why the input here seems to be from those who have. Certainly, my conscious confrontation did not begin until February 2008 (shortly after joining this forum) - and my astrological awareness of Chiron only began some 3 months earlier, around the time of my 59th birthday. So, I shall not be pointing fingers at anyone under 60 who chooses not to confront this planet - aptly described by Tsquare as a "little bugger".

However, for those who decide to do so in the future, I can now add the following about how the Chiron cycle appears to have worked in my life :-

1. Born with Chiron in Scorpio/3rd - "deep-seated scorpio fear of being manipulated, affecting how I communicate (3rd house).

2. First Chiron square at age 12 - death of grandmother who (with chiron hindsight) was the only "figure of authority" that never attempted to manipulate me. Also, first term in Seconday Education - when (with chiron hindsight) the main objective was to make me conform (by manipulation).

3. Chiron opposition at 35 - A time of considerable pressure by "my society" to make me conform (by manipulation), referred to elsewhere on this thread.

4. Second Chiron square at 45 - Throughout the six months prior to her death through cancer, I became aware for the first time of how my mother was manipulating me (and had always done so).

5. Chiron Return at 50 - although I did not realise why until now, this was when I began to reflect upon how my resistance to "being manipulated" by others had affected my life. (Note how that made me feel I'd displayed courage by resisting - rather than fear of something that might not actually have been happening.)

6. Currently at 59 and six months - Chiron has been setting off a tight Pluto/Mercury square in my chart. (With Chiron hindsight), that square explains the pride I have always had in being mentally strong enough to resist manipulation by others. And that pride has been the source of the "self-sabotage" to which Nexus7 refers in this thread.

Finally, I hope this helps others to confront their own Chiron wound despite the pain of doing so - because, I can confirm from experience that it is probably the underlying/hidden cause of the problems that we are consciously aware of. As Jeremy says, the Chiron message is "heal or become ill" - but it's also reminding us of the law of "cause and effect".

EJ:cheers:

EJ53 06-03-2008 07:03 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Starlink
Would midpoints between Chiron and other planets be of interest you think?

Yes - and I'm gonna ask the Mods to post you as AWOL next time you go "missing" from this forum.:D

EJ:)

starlink 06-03-2008 07:20 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Oh great EJ53!, I mean, looking at all those important Chiron hits. I will have a look at mine also and let you know (if I remember, because I seem to be good at covering up bad memories).

Quote:

I'm gonna ask the Mods to post you as AWOL next time you go "missing" from this forum.:D
Oh, that is sooo considerate of you:)! I will announce all my vacations to avoid panic stations, ha ha!!!

Ciao! Star.

smilingsteph 06-03-2008 09:53 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Chiron's lessons:
to teach
to unlock
to find what is essential
to reconcile opposites (shaman)
to heal holistically
They say they are similar to Saturns lessons, if so, how? Any input?
Can we apply the same understanding to Chiron as Saturn?
I think I am getting the two mixed up as one of the same...

Nexus7 06-03-2008 11:07 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Having just had a Chiron return after transit Chiron conjunct Moon after Neptune made similar transits, it certainly does seem to me that Chiron is not Neptune. The Neptune transit could be cathartic, inspiring (though not all Neptune transits are not like that, they can also seem to engender a sense of loss and disappointment in ways that felt pretty pointless at the time with other transits), but the Chiron transits just seemed painful without anything cathartic going on whatsoever. And if there is anythng to this wounding idea, it, for me at least, still seems to me to be linked with all kinds of group politics, the wounding happening where the hidden dynamics are least understood, that is all. In that respect, 3rd-House placements for me at least, do make sense: school. Still, I've no doubt lots of people have woundings here, apparently most people, when asked to describe a school memory, go on to describe something unpleasant, even traumatic. In other words, you don't need to have any Chiron placement in the 3rd to necessary be totally unwounded by school expereinces at a tender age.

But then again, Rob Hand declares that 'school is Saturnine.' So there is one possible Saturn comparison.

EJ53 06-04-2008 11:13 AM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Smilingsteph

Quote:

Originally Posted by smilingsteph
.....Can we apply the same understanding to Chiron as Saturn?...

Based solely upon my own experience of Chiron, I'd speculate that :-

Saturn encourages us to "know what we need to know"
Chiron encourages us to accept that "we know what we need to know"

For example, It takes me a long time to interpret and synthesise the individual components in a chart (Saturn) - yet I can "see" the result in minutes by looking at the chart (Uranus). However, having not yet "accepted" my ability to do the latter (Chiron) - I still confirm "what I know" by interpreting and synthesising the individual components. So, Chiron is the bridge between my grounded saturn knowledge of astrology and the uranus knowledge that comes from who knows where.

Nexus7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus7
And if there is anythng to this wounding idea, it, for me at least, still seems to me to be linked with all kinds of group politics, the wounding happening where the hidden dynamics are least understood, that is all.

This makes sense to me, as the wound does always seem to the individual to have been inflicted by others. And the hidden dynamics might be stated as :-

Psychological wounds come not from what happens to us, but from how the event(s) made us feel at the time.

EJ:)

starlink 06-04-2008 11:14 AM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Quote:

In that respect, 3rd-House placements for me at least, do make sense:
school. Still, I've no doubt lots of people have woundings here, apparently most people, when asked to describe a school memory, go on to describe something unpleasant, even traumatic. In other words, you don't need to have any Chiron placement in the 3rd to necessary be totally unwounded by school expereinces at a tender age
.
Hi Nexus, yes, you are right of course. School is never really a party!
I am talking about more extreme happenings. In my case it was really very abusive and not the normal bullying which always happens in school.
The fact that I can remember each instant says it all. I dont remember other things at that time so well.

EJ, I have now a case with a Chiron in the 8th in Pisces, conjunct Saturn (imagine) and opposed to a Pluto/Uranus conjunction in the 2nd. And a Sun square Mars. Sun rules Ascendant, in the 5th in Capricorn.Chart of a woman. Transiting Uranus is exactly conjunct her Chiron now! OOPS!!
Trans. Saturn cnj. her Ascendant .

I find 8th house positions always hard to explain to the client, I can feel it but have difficulty putting it into words that they understand and more important, willing to accept.

In my opinion this is a big time father issue, feeling a great loss of support from others as well (husband, financial). He has the title, she the money.
Uranus rules the 7th house.

Hope all goes well, I see her at 14.30 today. Also have to do her son's chart, so it is going to be a heavy session. transiting Moon will be going over my Uranus in Gemini, quite appropriate and entering my 8th house .

Cheers, Star.

Jeremy 06-04-2008 11:33 AM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Star, for what it is worth ;) my brother-in-law has the exact same configuration (sa/ch opp. ur/pl) so I am very familiar with it. His father (and my wife's father too of course) committed suicide when he was 16. His SA NN was square radix Sa/Ch at this time, so what can you say of that? Destiny?

There is no question that the wound and the father here are the same and they provoke some very uncomfortable control issues later on in life, with the 2nd/8th axis it is all about possession, about holding on vs. letting go, about gluttony vs. starvation, about more is more vs. less is more and about Sparta! Haha, I love the 2nd/8th axis, it rules my life :) :(

I can let you have an interp I wrote on this setup if you are at all interested. Only trying to help of course, not that you really need though :)

J

EJ53 06-04-2008 11:44 AM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Starlink
EJ, I have now a case with a Chiron in the 8th in Pisces, conjunct Saturn (imagine) and opposed to a Pluto/Uranus conjunction in the 2nd. And a Sun square Mars. Sun rules Ascendant, in the 5th in Capricorn.Chart of a woman. Transiting Uranus is exactly conjunct her Chiron now! OOPS!!
Trans. Saturn cnj. her Ascendant.

Hi Starlink,

This sounds very much like Flea's chart to me. So, looking again at her comments/responses to them here might be helpful to you.

Basically though, I'd opt for childhood problems with your client's father making her feel uncomfortable about being different/her individuality (pluto/uranus). But, if she's got over that, she might now be a never-ending source of original ideas - like Flea.

Edit - with these planets/signs involved, maybe the 2/8 axis is purely about insecurity - in everything!

EJ:)

flea 06-04-2008 12:52 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Ahh thankyou EJ, Big energies for sure but well,
Starlink, with sun squaring that little combo I had fun and games when pluto transited my sun.

I feel it more with my inner father construct, or my understanding of masculinity rather than all about the father I have in this life. Relating to men is not the easiest thing for me, I can relate as friends, but have relationship, mmmmm. Think there is a lot of past life urghhhh. It is about bringing into balance my female and male sides. And allowing my male side to be strong enough to shut up for a while so my female side can breathe and come to life in fullness.

Connecting to my feeling side, my cancer moon that had been shut up for eons that really brought me back to loving life again.

I wonder if chiron's wound is the one of being mortal, all the pain we feel just to experience mortality. Making friends with life and being in the moment, but the pain and shame of the mortal existence, how do you heal that???

Loving the thread, giving me so much to think about. And yes EJ I relate a lot to Chiron, (and Neptune, lots of contacts) and also my NN is tightly conjunct my mum's chiron and widely conjunct my Dad's, soooooo. Cant esacpe the process of healing and parents. Sometimes I think I am a medium through which they heal?? I have a lot of progressed planets in aquarius at mo, 5 I think, and with neptune and chiron hovering over my MC for quite a while, I am sensing transformations.


Love Light Flea

starlink 06-04-2008 01:01 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Hi friends, well, just 10 minutes before I leave, thanks a million for your comments!! Yes Flea, this lady is indeed a very tough cooky, told me that her husband is better with the kids than she is, businesslike, but truly kind as well and we got along well the 1st time I did one of her other sons. After that she "dared" to let me do her own chart:)

Oh my EJ, suicide, mmmm.... I wonder what happened with her. Maybe she will tell me, or just leave it at: Yes, that was difficult or something like that.
I am interested in that interpretation. You can email it to me or PM it. Thanks in advance. Well, must run now! Wish me luck!
Cheers, Star.

EJ53 06-04-2008 03:56 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by starlink
Oh my EJ, suicide, mmmm.... I wonder what happened with her. Maybe she will tell me, or just leave it at: Yes, that was difficult or something like that.
I am interested in that interpretation. You can email it to me or PM it. Thanks in advance.

Jeremy

I note Starlink is referring to you here - but, I'd also be interested in that interpretation. Any chance of a copy?

EJ:cheers:

Nexus7 06-04-2008 08:52 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
'This makes sense to me, as the wound does always seem to the individual to have been inflicted by others. And the hidden dynamics might be stated as :-

Psychological wounds come not from what happens to us, but from how the event(s) made us feel at the time.'

I don't doubt that our own interpretation of events does matter, but I cannot agree that this is just a one-way process.

Suppose you are left-handed. Well, if you are lucky, that may never be an issue within the culture you grow up.

However, in some cultures, it could mean any manner of 'wounding' coming your way if the cultural attitude that this indeed means that there is something about you that is not quite right. There are taboos in some countries about using your left hand for many things, it may mean being forced to write with the right hand or being left alone, but being labelled as behaviourally challenged or just simply being made to feel clumsy, or even of being in league with the devil in some way.

But it depends on what you meet in something that is external to you and I would imagine - luckily, this did not happen to me, but it did happen to my mother - however brave a face you may put on it, being forced to write with your righthand can lead to neurologial difficulties later on - more 'wounding.'

EJ53 06-05-2008 04:40 AM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Nexus7

This is a good way of illustrating our different views, as I use my knife/fork "left-handedly" and, at primary school, encountered the same problem as your mother - but in a minor way that left no psychological or neurological difficulties. In essence, one elderly teacher identified me as a "Devil's child" and made it her mission to get me to eat right-handedly - rapping me on the knuckles with a spoon whenever she caught me doing otherwise. However, from the outset, I (and everyone else) identified her as being the "odd" one rather than me - finding it more a source of amusement than traumatic. So, as I had no "feelings of shame", it left no psychological scar.

But, in your mother's case, the "event" was more serious/severe and may have evoked that feeling of shame - either because she felt "odd/different" or because she was unable to prevent her individuality/left-handedness being destroyed by others. And that would indeed create the kind of deep-seated psychological problem that (I believe) is indicated by the Chiron placement in our charts.

The neurological issue then does become a factor - but only if it re-inforces the sense of shame.

:sunny: (Thanks. This "event vs feeling" issue is fundamental to my views on Chiron - so having it questioned/disputed by you/others helps me enormously.)

EJ:)

EJ53 06-05-2008 05:18 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
Flea

Quote:

Originally Posted by flea
....I wonder if chiron's wound is the one of being mortal, all the pain we feel just to experience mortality. Making friends with life and being in the moment, but the pain and shame of the mortal existence, how do you heal that???

This makes sense, as giving up his life (rather than his immortality) was how Chiron got rid of his pain.

On the "shame issue" though, the myth indicates that this was felt by his parents rather than Chiron. He was born "different" because they had transformed themselves into horses to hide their affair from the wife of his father (Saturn) - so he reminded them of their "shameful behaviour" (and he was abandoned/hidden to avoid others finding out about it). So, I'm wondering if our "shame" exists at the very deepest level - put there by the soul/Father at the time of birth and merely reawakened in this lifetime to be atoned for/lived with. Thus, in my case, I feel no shame about being manipulated - it comes from allowing that to happen.

Starlink

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starlink
Would midpoints between Chiron and other planets be of interest you think?

Hope your consultation went well yesterday.

I've now looked at my own mid-points in the way you suggested and :

Natal pluto sits on chiron/south node; trines chiron/jupiter and sextiles chiron/saturn

Natal Mercury sextiles chiron/uranus

Because of the south node involvement, maybe the pluto contacts are about what I should not be doing - trying to eliminate/heal the wound by applying jupiter "wisdom" and saturn "discipline".

No ideas yet on what the Mercury contact means, but the chiron/uranus mid-point is semi-sextile pluto (which Mercury squares exactly).

All

I think I'm getting close now to a "suggested approach to the Chiron wound" - based on a sample size of one chart and one person's experience (mine). However, I have not a clue how to explain it here!

EJ:)

QuaOs 06-05-2008 05:24 PM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
I have Chiron closely conjunct Caput Algol at Yod's apex in Taurus 3rd. That has been pretty painful all the way to now. You can see from my chart right here:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...5d5ce7fd51.png

Since in the circle of childhood friends/cousins and in school I have been quite subject of mocking and bully for my weirdness/differences from others.

And until these days I still have to struggle with my speech, often frustrating myself and others who find my words hard to understand. This have to do with both physically feeling uncomfort and being full of phlegm in my throat almost all the time, and mentally when trains of my ideas often get blocked and come out from my mouth in odd rhythms that seem out of sync with other normal people. Still to be proven if it is really "unhealable" wound or not...

(But I can do far better in writing)

EJ53 06-06-2008 08:08 AM

Re: Ways to heal Chiron wounds
 
QuaOs

You seem to have a good understanding of your Chiron wound and how to "live with it" by written rather than oral communications. I do not use fixed stars, but understand that Algol can make you "lose your head and/or fail to see the obvious" - so, I can see how that would affect your trains/rythms of thought. However, the yod does point to this wound becoming a strength after some kind of self-transformation through your career and involvement in large groups. Maybe some of the comments in this thread will help you with that.

All

Using my own life/chart/wound to work through the suggestions/ideas posted on this thread, I'd now speculate that the chiron wound and it's influence might be clarified by the following process :-

Step 1
Re-draw the chart showing only Chiron, the planets within aspect orbs to it and any planets that aspect a Chiron/Planet mid-point.

Step 2

Attempt an interpretation of the planets in aspect, in the light of the text book general meaning of the Chiron placement.

Step 3

Attempt to interpret the natal planet/chiron mid-point contacts

Step 4

Identify the timing of conjunctions made by transitting Chiron to each planet aspecting natal Chiron - and the timing of squares/oppositions/return to its own natal position.

Step 5

Ascertain (from memory) what happened at the time of the Chiron transits in step 4.

Step 6

Prepare yourself for the "pain and shame" of the realisation that we are indeed the architect of our own misfortunes.

This needs an illustration so, using my chart as drawn at step 1 :-

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...8d75903290.jpg

Step 1

My natal chart above shows Chiron and the planets it aspects (in green) - with the planets that aspect Chiron/Planet mid-points (in red)

Step 2

My textbook (Chiron by Martin Lass) says that Chiron in Scorpio inflicts a "feeling that the world is against us, that others seek to bring us down, that others may be plotting against us, and/or that others manipulate us and/or undermine us." He also suggests that, in the 3rd house, this will most likely be "played out in the arena of knowledge, the mind, communications, media and siblings". So, my task is to determine which (if any) of these generalities actually applies to me - something that only I can ever have all the information to do (unless I choose to share it). The first step towards that is to attempt an interpretation of the 5 planet aspect configuration in the chart - Chiron + Sun + Jupiter + Saturn + Uranus - as follows :-

The parental 10/4 axis reveals a father who believed education and originality bring success (uranus in gemini/9th and on MC) - and a mother who feared that "rising above our station in life" brings unhappiness (Jupiter in detriment in Capricorn/4th and on IC). Both parents were highly skilled in knowing how to manipulate me through my natural desire to please them (uranus/jupiter aspects to sun/chiron) - and both considered social standing/position and "office work" as THE indicator of success (uranus/jupiter aspects to saturn in Virgo/11th).

This exactly describes the early/childhood influences on me that ultimately led to pursuing a career in accountancy (for money/status). But, as the uranus placement shows, that meant suppressing my individuality - becoming a "closet astrolger"/uranian in a very saturnian environment.

Step 3

Pluto sits on Chiron/South Node; trines Chiron/Jupiter and sextiles Chiron/Saturn. I'm hoping this indicates the wisdom (jupiter) and discipline (saturn) to understand the wound in-depth (pluto) - but, because the South Node indicates an "undesirable path", attempting to eliminate (pluto) ought not to be my objective. (That and the "inseparable closeness" of my sun/chiron may explain why I believe this wound needs to be lived with).

Neptune sits on Chiron/Saturn; sextiles Chiron/Jupiter and trines Chiron/NN - so, I'm hoping my Neptune/imagination is working correctly here.

Mercury sextiles Chiron/Uranus but squares Chiron/Nodes - and I'm guessing there is a danger here of allowing the mind to interfere with intuition.

So, the Chiron/planet mid-point contacts appear to show me how to move to an understanding of the wound - and when to stop.

Steps 4, 5 and 6

I've just lost 90 minutes of "saved" text on this to the ethers. Having that happen again would be about as welcome as a hernia to an overweight lumberjack on steroids and stilts, so I'll assume these steps need no further comment.


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