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-   -   Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question? (https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=130087)

dd78 10-24-2019 05:17 PM

Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
Does Saturn in 1st house always destroy the question = automatically gives negative answer to any question?


Or does it make any difference if Saturn happens to be the 1st hs ruler = significator of the querent in own house and sign, Capricorn?

Does it mean the querent sets himself up for a failure = destroys the question anyway?

ElenaJ 10-24-2019 05:43 PM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
I think the restriction about Saturn in the first house is more a warning to the astrologer to be on their guard about the reading.

dd78 10-24-2019 05:51 PM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
Thank you for your reply, Elena :smile:

But isn`t 7th hs Saturn a warning that the astrologer may be wrong? :surprised:

In the case I`m asking about there`s no astrologer, because the
the querent is trying to answer own question.

ElenaJ 10-24-2019 06:36 PM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
"But isn`t 7th hs Saturn a warning that the astrologer may be wrong?"
This is true.

"In the case I`m asking about there`s no astrologer, because the
the querent is trying to answer own question."

So the querent is acting as the astrologer. It is just a "beware" and "be careful" warning.
Not sure, but possibly because it opposes the 7th.

dd78 10-24-2019 07:08 PM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ElenaJ (Post 1007520)
So the querent is acting as the astrologer. It is just a "beware" and "be careful" warning.
Not sure, but possibly because it opposes the 7th.

Thank you :)

Well, it`s hard, if not impossible, to answer this question. The querent (me) is a novice and the situation is rather complicated. I have no hope for a positive outcome right now. :sad:

Aria Venue 10-27-2019 09:28 AM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dd78 (Post 1007501)
Does Saturn in 1st house always destroy the question = automatically gives negative answer to any question?


Or does it make any difference if Saturn happens to be the 1st hs ruler = significator of the querent in own house and sign, Capricorn?

Does it mean the querent sets himself up for a failure = destroys the question anyway?

Simply no!!!! If you asked your own question then you are ruled by saturn as Lord 1.iF AGAIN YOU ASKED A THIRD PARTY QUESTION...FOR EXAMPLE ...Will my sister get that job? again saturn is relevant to the specific context...it could be your sister's turned l11..or else, depends on the specific chart ...let's say saturn rules radix 1st, 2nd, 12th...then is your sister's turned 10th, 11th, 12th..etc...for the same reason saturn is not regarded as a malefic simply because is saturn...so this doesn't mean that in a love-relationship question where l7 is ruled by saturn, l7 is a bad person.Simply in this case the other person is signified by saturn and his/her co-ruler if they are available from the context and the chart and are not already taken. Whether a person, a job , a home, an astrologer ...etc are good or bad is determined through other ways from this chart.

so forget that restriction!it's irrelevant

greybeard 10-27-2019 10:38 AM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
I doubt that it is irrelevant.

I pay attention to "Saturn in the First House damages the question; Saturn retrograde in the First House kills the question."

Illustration: I mailed an important letter. The event chart showed Saturn Rx in 1st. A few days later the post office returned the letter, undelivered. It was a Dead Letter.

It will be up to you, through experience, to determine whether or not this applies in EVERY case.

Aria Venue 10-27-2019 10:57 AM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greybeard (Post 1007903)
I doubt that it is irrelevant.

I pay attention to "Saturn in the First House damages the question; Saturn retrograde in the First House kills the question."

Illustration: I mailed an important letter. The event chart showed Saturn Rx in 1st. A few days later the post office returned the letter, undelivered. It was a Dead Letter.

It will be up to you, through experience, to determine whether or not this applies in EVERY case.

thank you waybread but again this has to do with the context...as i previously said...not with the general restriction

ElenaJ 10-27-2019 10:59 AM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aria Venue (Post 1007904)
thank you waybread but again this has to do with the context...as i previously said...not with the general restriction

Can we just say it's a warning to take note of when Saturn there is not one of the significators.

Aria Venue 10-27-2019 11:53 AM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ElenaJ (Post 1007905)
Can we just say it's a warning to take note of when Saturn there is not one of the significators.

Personally i never take notice of such restrictions...whether the question is fit to be judged, or saturn... late asc.. etc...and since that question boils down to whether a chart is valid or not...or fit to be judged....
All charts are radical if the questions are sane and grounded in reality...so its up to the specific context and background story again

greybeard 10-27-2019 03:38 PM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
The First House is "Querent"...it makes no difference if you answer your own question.

dd78 10-27-2019 05:22 PM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aria Venue (Post 1007901)
Simply no!!!! If you asked your own question then you are ruled by saturn as Lord 1.iF AGAIN YOU ASKED A THIRD PARTY QUESTION...FOR EXAMPLE ...Will my sister get that job? again saturn is relevant to the specific context...it could be your sister's turned l11..or else, depends on the specific chart ...let's say saturn rules radix 1st, 2nd, 12th...then is your sister's turned 10th, 11th, 12th..etc...for the same reason saturn is not regarded as a malefic simply because is saturn...so this doesn't mean that in a love-relationship question where l7 is ruled by saturn, l7 is a bad person.Simply in this case the other person is signified by saturn and his/her co-ruler if they are available from the context and the chart and are not already taken. Whether a person, a job , a home, an astrologer ...etc are good or bad is determined through other ways from this chart.

so forget that restriction!it's irrelevant

Thank you for clarification!!! :happy:

dd78 10-27-2019 05:44 PM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greybeard (Post 1007903)
I doubt that it is irrelevant.

I pay attention to "Saturn in the First House damages the question; Saturn retrograde in the First House kills the question."

Illustration: I mailed an important letter. The event chart showed Saturn Rx in 1st. A few days later the post office returned the letter, undelivered. It was a Dead Letter.

It will be up to you, through experience, to determine whether or not this applies in EVERY case.


Thank you, this is a very good example!

In this case, maybe Saturn rising is making the chart radical, as my natal Saturn is in my 1st house, Virgo ?

But I`m also rather negative about the results of the situation I asked about. I also may be wrong with my assumptions or may make things harder or delay matters. It`s an 8th hs matter - insurance money due to be paid to me, but the insurance company has been delaying and blocking matters for a few months. It` rather complicated and I`m not a lawyer, so they act as if they were above the law.

greybeard 10-27-2019 11:04 PM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destrothe question, I wondery the question?
 
The stricture applies to horary charts, not natal.

A chart can still be read even when it is "not fit to be read." And very often they should be read.

Let's assume that Saturn in the First, in this chart, signifies that "the question is damaged." It would be good to know what the damage consists of and where it comes from. Are you yourself causing some sort of impediment? Well, that may be under your control and can be fixed.

I wonder if you are failing to take some necesssary action, perhaps not enlisting needed assistance.


What these strictures ("considerations before judgment") mean is not to throw the chart away; they mean that you must dig down another level.

tikana 10-27-2019 11:11 PM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dd78 (Post 1007501)
Does Saturn in 1st house always destroy the question = automatically gives negative answer to any question?


Or does it make any difference if Saturn happens to be the 1st hs ruler = significator of the querent in own house and sign, Capricorn?

Does it mean the querent sets himself up for a failure = destroys the question anyway?


try looking for threads with this topic
every month or 2 there is at least 1 thread on the topic

short answer, no! saturn in 1st doesnt destroy the question

waybread 10-27-2019 11:29 PM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aria Venue (Post 1007904)
thank you waybread but again this has to do with the context...as i previously said...not with the general restriction

Hey, that was graybeard, not me!!!!!!

But just to chime in, Saturn in the first is one of those old indicators that the matter will not go well for you. For one thing, you are symbolized by the first house. It doesn't "destroy the question" so much as predict an unwanted outcome.

However, there is a view that a domiciled planet, even if Saturn, is more beneficial. Then think about whether the matter inquired about has some kind of Saturn rulership. Maybe it deals with an old person, a farmer, or a missing object in a Saturnian kind of place.

Aria Venue makes a good point that there might be a 3rd party question that doesn't directly concern you.

Aria Venue 10-28-2019 09:24 AM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by waybread (Post 1008001)
Hey, that was graybeard, not me!!!!!!

But just to chime in, Saturn in the first is one of those old indicators that the matter will not go well for you. For one thing, you are symbolized by the first house. It doesn't "destroy the question" so much as predict an unwanted outcome.

However, there is a view that a domiciled planet, even if Saturn, is more beneficial. Then think about whether the matter inquired about has some kind of Saturn rulership. Maybe it deals with an old person, a farmer, or a missing object in a Saturnian kind of place.

Aria Venue makes a good point that there might be a 3rd party question that doesn't directly concern you.

sorry, my dear waybread...of course i wasn't referring to you but to graybeard's comment.:love:

dd78 10-28-2019 05:02 PM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destrothe question, I wondery the question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greybeard (Post 1007993)
The stricture applies to horary charts, not natal.

A chart can still be read even when it is "not fit to be read." And very often they should be read.

Let's assume that Saturn in the First, in this chart, signifies that "the question is damaged." It would be good to know what the damage consists of and where it comes from. Are you yourself causing some sort of impediment? Well, that may be under your control and can be fixed.

I wonder if you are failing to take some necesssary action, perhaps not enlisting needed assistance.


What these strictures ("considerations before judgment") mean is not to throw the chart away; they mean that you must dig down another level.

Thank you :)

Yes, I agree I may be causing impediment myself. I need to consult a lawyer, because I don`t really know how to proceed.

The chart itself is also complicated and I`m not sure if I`m even assigning significators correctly.

The ascendant is 2*54 CAP and this fact alone may suggest that the situation is dynamic and it`s too early to give a definitive answer.
However, the chart may be helpful at describing the situation, I guess.

dd78 10-28-2019 05:07 PM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tikana (Post 1007995)
try looking for threads with this topic
every month or 2 there is at least 1 thread on the topic

short answer, no! saturn in 1st doesnt destroy the question

Thank you :)

I asked the question because each chart is different.

This chart shows Saturn on AC, but Saturn rules it, he is essentially and accidentally dignified, and I guess he is the strongest planet in this chart.

So I`m rather confused.

dd78 10-28-2019 05:14 PM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by waybread (Post 1008001)
Hey, that was graybeard, not me!!!!!!

But just to chime in, Saturn in the first is one of those old indicators that the matter will not go well for you. For one thing, you are symbolized by the first house. It doesn't "destroy the question" so much as predict an unwanted outcome.

However, there is a view that a domiciled planet, even if Saturn, is more beneficial. Then think about whether the matter inquired about has some kind of Saturn rulership. Maybe it deals with an old person, a farmer, or a missing object in a Saturnian kind of place.

Yes, this is why I asked, because all these strictures are a bit confusing, since they apply only in specific cases.

Saturn is also in sect in this chart, so maybe it suggests a hard earned or delayed success. Or getting less than expected, yet getting something instead of nothing. :unsure:

dd78 10-28-2019 05:15 PM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by waybread (Post 1008001)
Hey, that was graybeard, not me!!!!!!

But just to chime in, Saturn in the first is one of those old indicators that the matter will not go well for you. For one thing, you are symbolized by the first house. It doesn't "destroy the question" so much as predict an unwanted outcome.



Thank you, waybread :)

dd78 10-28-2019 06:31 PM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
here is the thread:

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...72#post1008072


Saturn is rising and very strong, Moon is applying trine with weak reception to Saturn. Moon is less than happy about it, but can`t really avoid it.
Mars is also applying to Saturn with mutual reception by exaltation, but Moon will perfect first. Mars is in detriment and out-of-sect.

Thank you for your contribution :)

I also respect your time, so you are free to decide if you want to reply to the other thread.

greybeard 10-29-2019 12:13 AM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
Early Ascendant..."Too early to tell. The situation must ripen."

Plus Saturn in First!

Are you forcing the issue? The chart is telling you..."Patience!" And telling you that you may be what's holding things up.

And you are complicating the process, the astrology. Mars is this and that...what does Mars have to do with it?

Simplify.

Ask a Yes/No question. Follow the rules. If you can't swim, don't go in over your head.

In saying "This chart is not fit to be read", the chart has spoken volumes; open your ears and listen.

waybread 10-29-2019 04:34 AM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dd78 (Post 1008074)
here is the thread:

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...72#post1008072


Saturn is rising and very strong, Moon is applying trine with weak reception to Saturn. Moon is less than happy about it, but can`t really avoid it.
Mars is also applying to Saturn with mutual reception by exaltation, but Moon will perfect first. Mars is in detriment and out-of-sect.

Thank you for your contribution :)

I also respect your time, so you are free to decide if you want to reply to the other thread.

I responded on your other thread.

dd78 10-29-2019 03:03 PM

Re: Saturn in 1st house = does he always destroy the question?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greybeard (Post 1008121)
Early Ascendant..."Too early to tell. The situation must ripen."

Plus Saturn in First!

Are you forcing the issue? The chart is telling you..."Patience!" And telling you that you may be what's holding things up.

And you are complicating the process, the astrology. Mars is this and that...what does Mars have to do with it?

Simplify.

Ask a Yes/No question. Follow the rules. If you can't swim, don't go in over your head.

In saying "This chart is not fit to be read", the chart has spoken volumes; open your ears and listen.



SO Mars is irrelevant, even though he is applying to my sig.
This is good news :w00t:

Your replies are very helpful!
Both in general and in this specific case!

Thank you, greybeard!

I`ll consult a lawyer tomorrow


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