what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?
 

What's an indicator of low intelligence in a birth chart?

Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?
 

Define low intelligence.


Forgive me if I sound offended, but as someone who has had to live with the "low intelligence" label for years, there is no such thing as stupidity, only different kind of intelligence. That said, I seem to notice that the people who are labeled "low intelligence" take more time to think, which isn't always a bad thing. Thinking slowly means more refined thought.


I can think of a couple of placements for that:

• Mercury retrograde
• Mercury square Saturn
• Mercury in signs like Taurus or Capricorn
• Mercury forming an aspect to Neptune (causing seemingly spacy thought. In my case Neptune quintile Mercury)

I have my chart here for reference.

Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?
 

Your mercury is in gemini? I'm talking about lower iq. Which in my humble opinion and knowledge is being able to reason properly, think abstractly, connect the dots, and a decent memory.

Quintiles don't count. You're not dumb. Neptune can create spaciness but can also cause someone to think abstractly. But Yes I do think it might create a little slowness.

Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?
 

It's really complicated. A birth chart merely shows a potential at birth. Many factors influence where a child gets a chance to develop intellectual capabilities. You might see an intelligent-looking natal chart, only to learn that the person got a head-injury as a young person, that seriously affects his ability to think clearly.

What is behind your question?

[Gemini888, I have Mercury retrograde. I disagree.]

Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?
 

I am not sure that I agree with the placements you have used as examples above.

In my experience,Mercury retro does not usually signify low intelligence.
I think it often indicates someone who thinks in a different way than the 'norm' and may look at things very deeply.

My husband has Merc Retro in Aries in the 12th. He is an award winning writer and travels around the world speaking and teaching about writing and literature and film and TV.

Prince had Merc retro. He had a very high IQ. Same with Buckminster Fuller, the famous inventor, who created the geodesic dome.

Mercury in Taurus:

As a mom, I have to stand up for my 2 kids, both with Merc in Taurus. Neither have low intelligence. They were both in the gifted program in school.

My son reads one or two novels a week and has for many years. My daughter is a writer like her father and has been very successful.

So I disagree that Mercury in Taurus signifies a low IQ. It can signify someone who processes data slower than the average bear. But if someone is an Aries or Gemini with their Merc in Taurus, they are not going to be slow witted, necessarily.

Mercury in Taurus can be stubborn and resistant to change, but not necessarily dumb.

Mercury in Taurus natives: Emma Watson, Sigmund freud, George Clooney, Bono, Gigi Hadid

Mercury square Saturn:

Some very intelligent natives have Merc/Saturn squares. Saturn can hone ones perceptions and thoughts and stir ambition and accomplishments.

Hilary Clinton----Salvador Dali---Sir Isaac Newton---Woody Allen---Johnny Depp---Maya Angelou---Warren Buffett....

These^^^ are not stupid, low IQ people...:cool:

Looks like you failed to understand my point. My point is that the people with those placements think differently, so as a result being LABELED "low intelligence" by the masses. And I can attest to that, having Mercury retrograde in 2H square Saturn and being called stupid.

I'm in NO way saying that those placements make people stupid.

Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?
 

Sorry. I did miss your point.:sideways:
I skimmed the first paragraph too fast and skipped to the numbered parts below. :happy:

Must be my Mercury opposed Jupiter, exact. :innocent:

Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?
 

In my chart you can see I have Mercury/Jupiter opposition too. And I jump the gun sometimes :biggrin:

Mercury in Aries/Pisces/Leo
Mercury in hard aspect to Neptune

Mercury-Saturn can make someone really slow but not having low intelligence per se.
The native can literally speak slowly for example.

I have a difficult time deciding about Mercury in Sag because I've seen both intelligent and the complete opposite of intelligent people with it. The intelligent ones had lots of other aspects to their Mercury while the not intelligent ones had their Mercury almost unaspected or just a few sextiles and stuff like that. (I'm talking about Sag Mercury).
I have 2 cousins with Sag Mercury and all people comment on how low intelligent they are. I mean it's very obvious.
However with my cousin it's beyond creepy.
It's like she has an empty head which is filled and replaus whatever she listens and sees from others. I find this the most creepy thing and it's also very common with Neptunian Mercuries. It comes to a point that they would drive me crazy because they forget and get confused about whatever they've said in the past.. I've come to a piint that I would record them in order to prove it to them and to save my sanity. They don't have the slightest idea but their environment seems to realise it.

With my cousin though I don't see her having friends. No one wants her and everyone calls her stupid. It makes me sad and I've been talking to her for years but honestly I knew it was completely pointless since the beginning because she's actually a repeater. I don't know how to explain it otherwise, but it's like her brain doesn't work in a sense.
Also she lies a lot for no reason. The lies she tells are lies that wouldn't do her any favor. It's very weird actually.

Her parents and her brother are normal people on the most than average intelligence side.

Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?
 

Does she have high functioning autism or ADD?

Mercury really does get a bad rep. But some people may have anxiety disorders and other mental health issues and excel at other stages or domains in life.

It breaks my heart really. I kind of regret starting this thread.

Even if you didn't start the thread nothing would change practically.
I find this things informative
Andsince that is reality I would like to see each ones observations.

Not only she doesn't have any problem
but she's lucky enough to have been raised in a very good environment (both emotionally and financially).
She talks non stop and it's like she doesm't know what she says, she just tlks for the sake of talking.
I think that I found the right way to describe it.
Have you ever learnt a lesson without actually giving it a thought, you just memorised it in order to get a good grade next day without really understand it.
It's like she's been in that kind of mode non stop in her real life. She doesn't really understands meaning, she just repeats. It feels to me like her brain doesn't actually process things if that makes sense. But to be honest it seems like she's too lazy to do that, she's too superficial generally.
I can't blame others for not standing her. I have difficulty myself.
But I think it's her fault actually. She may not naturally process things but she can try a bit harder since it's needed to.
It's like a poor person who desperately want money and he is offered a few decent jobs but he doesn't want to work.
She has what you would call a perfect life otherwise honestly, I've tried to help her for years and teach her how to go deeper but it's like she agrees but her mind isn't there.

The other cousin has some kind of problem but he is actually smart. His speech though is seriously slowed down. (Sag Mercury square Saturn) Also he is HILARIOUS his humor is so good that I cry because of too much laughter.
My best friend had also great sense of humor and he was very smart Sag Mercury too without any problem actually. If I remmber correctly his Jupiter was aspecting his Mercury so it may play a positive role.

Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?
 

That girl reminds me of a friend I have. Extremely forgetful. Unless it's of utmost importance, nothing ever stays in her brain for more than a day. She can't comprehend abstract concept either, and she is sometimes too casual over serious things. It's like she can only scrap the surface of everything and then move on. She also has a perfect family. Supposedly, she has Mercury in Cancer in 9H.



But why do I keep her as a friend?


Because she has tons of other redeeming quality. If you avoid discussing work with her, she's a great asset at parties. She can keep the gathering entertaining with her random humor. She also knows a lot of games to suggest everyone to play together. And she has a knack of connecting to other fun-loving people. Through her I get to know some great people who turn out to not only be good at partying but also great for other serious things.


If you look for the positive in people and know how to bring out the positive, chances are they aren't as bad as you think.

Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?
 

Gemini888
I honestly can't find anything positive about my cousin and I'm not the only one. I know her well since she was born. You have no idea how hard I've tried over the years with her. I tried to find something good too so that she could develop that more or somehow use it to her advantage (mentally). Anyway, it's pointless.
Her chart is full of Libra btw except of her mecury..
Others often use her for her money unfortunately.
I've read that Mercury in Cancer along with Mercury in Aqua are two of the best Mercury signs after Virgo and Gemini. I mean Mercury in Aqua it's kind of obvious but I was surprised for Mercury in V
Cancer.
However you say that her Mercury us in 9th H of Sag.

Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?
 

I really don't think intelligence can be seen in a chart. Perhaps the types of potential intelligence a person might have can be.

I say this because I too have Mercury conjunct Saturn, but I had the opposite experience. I was in all the gifted classes and scored high on tests. I had straight As and participated in quick recall and problem-solving competitions, and other nerdy endeavors. It was assumed I'd grow up and do something really amazing and genius.

Oops.

Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?
 

Any superior intelligence related to Uranus imo. Especially, highly tight conjunction with lightbringer for diurnal nativities aka the Sun. :biggrin:
Opposite and square to Uranus is the trouble.

Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?
 

Well, okay. I do have sun trine Uranus...not that tight, though. A 4 or 5 degree orb if I recall.

But the oops was because I haven't done anything particularly amazing or genius.

Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?
 

Pluto and Uranus sitting together in your chart. Uranus naturally didn't like Pluto. :whistling:

Hhmm... Pluto's light reflections should be bother Uranus a lot. :devil:

Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?
 

Hmm? I have sun trine Uranus. I looked, and it's actually 3 degree orb. Pluto and Uranus are in the same sign, but not very close together. Have you been digging up my chart and looking at it?

Oh, I get it. This is just some Pluto shade. Sneaky. :bandit:

I agree with waybread. Many low-iq people have "normal" charts, but they went through some disgraceful events like an accident or disease that makes them lose a lot of their neurons so their mental capabilities are diminished. Traumatic birth or oxygen deprivation also lead to this.

It also seems that people who go through very stressful and traumatic situations in their early years, and those who didn't have enough iron in their diets when growing up have more chances of having a low IQ.

Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?
 

Imo the natal shart says more about how we think than about actual intelligence level. The charts shows our predispositions as far as thought processes go... if we are analytical or intuitive thinkers; quick witted or slower, more deliberate; inventive or traditional; linguistic, logical, spatial... The rest, our actual level of intelligence / IQ or whatever... depends on how we work with what we've got. Some people will be more versatile, some will show a major predisposition for one specific type of intelligence... Some people have easy aspects between planets that help them utilize them without struggle, other people will have more to overcome. But I do believe that everyone has the potential to excel in at least some intellectual area.

- Uranus/Aquarius might be the classical high IQ, analytical, inventive type intelligence.
- Mercury/Gemini/3rd: liguistic, interpersonal, quick wit, curiosity.
- Mars/Aries: kinestetic, driven.
- Virgo: logical, spatial, detail-oriented.
- Moon/Cancer: interpersonal, intuitive.
- Neptune/Pisces/12th: intuitive, musical, artistic, imaginative.
...and so on, just some speculation.

My own intelligence is linguistic, interpersonal and intuitive, with a bit of well-organized Virgo thrown in. I have Mercury in Cancer in the 9th, tightly conjunct Mars and Midheaven, opposite Neptune in the 3rd. Gemini Sun in the 9th, square to Virgo Moon in the 12th. Uranus in Sagittarius 3rd, fairly isolated. Despite some harsh aspects and inopportune placements I've always been considered intellectually gifted... I think my multitude of Mercury/Gemini/3rd house energy makes me innately curious about everything (add in a strong Pluto, trine to Mercury, and you'll get obsessive curiosity). An innate curiosity is probably a great advantage when it comes to intellectual development.

Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?
 

Intelligence is about deep knowlegde in subjects, smart is knowning shortcuts of solving problems. They are not the same.

Inteligent people are definitely not too emotional. They need stability so when problems come they can stop and think about the solution. They will think of ways of solving, so they will remember by experience of studies so they can solve it. First thing to remember is Saturn. Saturn is the planet of cold, age wisdom and work through time. Mercury is rational and cold. Cold because emotions are not rational. Saturn is cold. So there you go, a very nice combo.

So to a classical intelligence aspect is Saturn connetions

Mercury in Aqua
Mercury in Cap
Mercury aspect Saturn(all aspects)

These people get respect(Saturn) for their knowlegde(Mercury)
These people work(Saturn) to understand things, so they know what they talk about properly(Mercury)
These people get more knowlegde(Mercury) with time(Saturn)
These people stop and think(Saturn) before they speak(Mercury)
These people have a pattern/stability(Saturn) in their speaking(Mercury)
These people have pessimistic thoughts( Saturn) due too much intelligence(Mercury)

The second place of inteligence is Sun conjunct Mercury in the same sign.

Their ego goes together with their mind. They are good speakers because of it. Intelligent people, again, have stability. If you are not confident(Sun) with your speaking/inteligence(Mercury), you will not get to show to other people.
Showing inteligence is to use it. Does not matter if you have a 200 IQ if nobody had the chance to see it or you had nothing productive about it.


3rd place of inteligence goes to Mercury/Mars connections.

Mars is about active and drive. Mercury is mind/speaking.

The drive goes to the mind, to the knowledge. and it is voracious.
This has an active mind, and to have an active mind, you should use it.
Their energy goes to the knowledge
so

Mercury in Aries
Mercury in Scorpio*** (this mercury goes deep with they liked subjects, but neglect others.)
Mercury/Mars connections(Conjunctions and easy aspects prefered)

Eistein has Mercury in Aries conjunct SATURN






To low RATIONALITY, LOGICAL thinking, you have to be more emotional. Check too much water in chart. Katy Perry is dominated by Scorpio and water. Watch her interviews.

Being more emotional means MORE ARTISTICAL, it is classified by Emotional Intelligence and it goes to art, we cannot live without art.

Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?
 

I was gonna say all the planets except for the Earth

Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?
 

There is this guy I know he has mercury retrograde in capricorn conjunct jupiter(debilitated), and neptune all in cap. I made his personality. I teach him something, and he'll flaunt it and incorporate it into his own personality and knowledge and when I ask what else did you learn about it, absolutely nothing. He has no sense of logic, doesn't want to learn new things or broaden his horizon in what I call 'original' ways. He likes wishy washy talk, cheesiness is like a delight to his ears and he thinks it's pure wisdom and I have taught him how to study, practice for one of his college entrance tests and more. He's so bad socially that he has zero friends. The level of stupidity made me originally think the had to be very manipulative and cunning to play victim to this level but the truth is he's a simpleton. His face exhibits sadness and will bring a sense of empathy from whoever sees it. He thinks negatively of everyone he meets, is suspicious toward them and eventually loses them. He can get along with teenagers at best, and continuously gets taken advantage by much older women whom he seeks a mommy figure in most of his life. And he's ungrateful, not because he's doing it on purpose but because he can't understand the value of what you provide or give him or how amazing his life would be if he were to treat others accordingly to what they deserve. He can't understand people nor emotions. And he continuously rubs people off the wrong way, and pisses off his external environment. However, you just want to protect him lol.


I wish we lived in a world where everyone was equally rich, beautiful and intelligent. But we don't lol. Your cousin sounds like a handful but she isn't the only person that exhibits traits such as these. Thanks for your input.

Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?
 

I'm one point above being legally mentally retarded. Here's my chart for reference

I think it's the Neptune-Mercury conjunction and probably Jupiter makes it worse by magnifying what Neptune already does to his poor Mercury.

Mercury-Neptune in hard aspect is so problemantic. It creeps me out how they do exactly what you said, incorporating whatever is said in their environment, even if they don't flaunt it they kind of treat it like it was something they always thought/believed etc.

I don't care if someone isn't curious to learn about a variety of things, isn't a good student etc. I consider that mechanical intelligent. Someone like them can acquire that kind of intelligent because of their ability to absorb whatever they hear. I know a lot of people like that, but that doesn't make someone intelligent for me, it's their logic, their ability to use their brain.
You know what I mean?

Your comment made me realise how Neptune-Mercury people have the same things going on (I don't remember if I already mentioned it but I know a lot of Mercury in Pisces and Mercury in hard aspect to Neptune). So because my cousin has the same traits but no Mercury-Neptune aspects in her chart, I checked her chart again just to see if I failed to remember any of her Sag Mercury aspects. It turns out that her Mercury is in her 12th H!


An example of an aunt of mine is when she ate with as with her one leg on the chair. My grandma was like "why do you have your leg like that?" she answered "I was always eating like that" all the family in the table (her parents have been with her her whole life) told her that she never ate like that. I then said "I'm sure someone does it, probably her boyfriend so she does it too" and then her sister told me "indeed it's her boyfriend, I've seen him eating like that".

Now that is not something huge, it can happen to anyone but the fact that she does that with everything (she will change everything according to her environment) and she thinks she was always like that. She isn't even aware of how she was and her memory ***** big time.

What creeps me out is the fact that they have nothing theirs. Whatever opinion/idea/belief I hear from them I know it's someone's else.
They do like cheezy talk too. You can persuade them do whatever you want them by giving them compliments even if it's obvious to the whole world that they are fake it will work with them.