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-   -   Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart (https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123493)

Cary2 04-03-2019 08:49 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
I have limited knowledge about Kepler. I think you must speak archaic German if you want to research the topic. I only know that he had his doubts about houses, and he wasn't much more confident about signs. He had a dim view of most of the astrologers known to him.

He was loathe to do predictions, but he was in considerable demand, and he could not refuse the income. He accepted positions as court astrologer because they were lucrative. He was personally fascinated with his preferred research which included weather forecasting.

He was a brilliant scientist, and modern scientists love to praise his brilliance, but they disingenuously describe him as foe of astrology which is a manifestly untrue. He was blisteringly critical of his contemporaries, but he was an enthusiastic astrologer his whole life.

conspiracy theorist 04-03-2019 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cary2 (Post 961948)
I'm sorry; speculation like that out of context is something I try to avoid. Orbs are so important. The rest of the chart is so important.

I said earlier that angular Pluto and Moon/Mars are often found in charts of bullies, but it is the height of folly to say that everyone with with such aspects is a bully. Forums are full acrimonious disputes because hostile people love to jump to such conclusions. They are looking for something in one of your statements to use against you with the most dishonest motives imaginable.

I know of a seasoned astrologer with an exalted sense of self-importance who condemned Robert Pellitier and his fine book "Planets in Aspect" because he said something unflattering about an aspect in her chart. She probably persecuted me because I unknowingly did something similar. I swear, you find little else in a forum, and you enter at your own risk.

When you go to a forum, you are in the presence of many people like that, and the fact that they identify as astrologers does not matter. Its just one of the many claims they will make that you should reconsider often.

That is why you might see me withdraw from certain things.

The orb for each planetary midpoint is a single degree. And I mean, if you want to get technical/be consistent, you've already indulged in speculation of that kind by sharing views on these aspects without a look at any charts. But, I understand that "once bitten, twice shy" and I will respect that.

Cary2 04-04-2019 01:10 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist (Post 962069)
views on these aspects .

When you say "these aspects" I don't know what you mean. If I speculate what you mean then I think you are wrong.

Are "these aspects" Moon/Mars and angular Pluto?

conspiracy theorist 04-04-2019 01:32 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
"These aspects" are Mars/Pluto and Mars/Uranus in general, and not in the context of a chart. What I asked of you (and which you have every right in not complying) is not anything different in kind to what you've already stated, just different in complexity since I asked you about a 4 planet combination, with a follow up question about examples so I could see the combo working "in reality".

Also, I could've taken your general statement about the combination and applied it to my situation; I wasn't asking for a chart read nor would I attack you if you happened to say something "offensive" about my supposed aspects. I've been in many discussions where aspects I have had been tarred and feathered; I'm not bothered by negative opinions about "my astrology" and I am not going to close my ears to someone who happens to say something bad about an aspect or configuration that happens to be in my chart.

I don't see how right and wrong has got anything to do with this, and I would like to reiterate that I respect your desire not to share.

Whoam1 04-04-2019 05:04 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Just a study that I've seen one of the highest aspect common in killers/murders is Mars-Venus.(crimes of passion)

Mars-Uranus is one of the other highest ones. (Low frustration tolerance)

Mars-Pluto isnt high In murder rates, however is high in suicides.

I have Mars square Venus (and 9th harmonic Uranus conj Venus). Venus/Uranus midpoint sits partile on my sun. Mars/Uranus midpoint 45 from my sun as well.
Uranus+Mars is very Scorpio like. (My Venus in all of this is in Scorpio so it doesn't help balance anything).

I can say that people with the Mars/Uranus energy are probably more what I would consider dangerous to others verus Pluto-Mars which tend to be more inwardly destructive. [Venus and Uranus are social add that with physical and angry Mars, its Pluto is anti-social added with Mars].

david starling 04-04-2019 05:52 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Spotlight on Mars! For some reason, possibly feeling its effects when it transited Taurus, I've been way more focused on it than usual. C.t. has always given it a great deal of attention, as I recall.

Cary2 04-04-2019 11:35 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Whoam1 (Post 962113)
Just a study that I've seen one of the highest aspect common in killers/murders is Mars-Venus.(crimes of passion)

Mars-Uranus is one of the other highest ones. (Low frustration tolerance)

Mars-Pluto isnt high In murder rates, however is high in suicides.

I have Mars square Venus (and 9th harmonic Uranus conj Venus). Venus/Uranus midpoint sits partile on my sun. Mars/Uranus midpoint 45 from my sun as well.
Uranus+Mars is very Scorpio like. (My Venus in all of this is in Scorpio so it doesn't help balance anything).

I can say that people with the Mars/Uranus energy are probably more what I would consider dangerous to others verus Pluto-Mars which tend to be more inwardly destructive. [Venus and Uranus are social add that with physical and angry Mars, its Pluto is anti-social added with Mars].

I think if you conduct such a survey using the midpoint patterns of Cosmobiogists, you will come to a different conclusion. I have experience with murder charts, and midpoints are key. I think neglecting them is more dangerous than ignoring a family of aspects. Most of the astrologers I've known, by far, really don't care about midpoints.

The process of synthesis is important to judging such a case. Synthesis reveals why Mars/Pluto, for instance, is more consequential in one chart than another.

Cary2 04-04-2019 12:07 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by david starling (Post 961998)
Standard-modern is strict about a Trine, even one with a geometrically tight , 2 or 3 degree Orb, being within Signs of the same Element. I read that the ancient astrologers were less strict about it.
This applies to placements in the 1-2 degree part of one Sign, and the 28-29 degree part of another.

I understand. For me, the signs affected by any aspect are helpful in interpreting the aspect, but an out-of-sign aspect is still judged by me based on orb. Being out of sign does not contradict its orb and geometry.

I think some of the aspect theory of Ptolemy verges on the perverse.

conspiracy theorist 04-06-2019 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by david starling (Post 962121)
Spotlight on Mars! For some reason, possibly feeling its effects when it transited Taurus, I've been way more focused on it than usual. C.t. has always given it a great deal of attention, as I recall.

Speaking of, I've noticed a curiosity since Mars ingressed into Gemini. There's been an increase in sprained hands with the guys I work with, especially those who have more hands on jobs. In my own case, my left hand looks like a chew toy, but my injuries came at the end of Mars in Taurus.

david starling 04-06-2019 05:09 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist (Post 962601)
Speaking of, I've noticed a curiosity since Mars ingressed into Gemini. There's been an increase in sprained hands with the guys I work with, especially those who have more hands on jobs. In my own case, my left hand looks like a chew toy, but my injuries came at the end of Mars in Taurus.

Thanks! I'll watch out for my hands.

Lykanized 04-06-2019 05:19 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cary2 (Post 961793)
Those are the instances when Mars is at his worst. Mars is the lesser malefic and really does not cause much trouble until he is aspect to one of the three outer planets. Mars with Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto is at his most dangerous.

Are you considering easy aspects in this theory? Perhaps if someone has easy aspects to all three of those outers?

Cary2 04-06-2019 01:45 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Of course, it is widely known that easy aspects have less challenge and less trouble. But the entire chart connects together in intricate ways, so that is the ultimate index.

When easy aspects contain factors that are hostile to each other, some of that challenge and turmoil remains even though the aspect is easy. But I can't deny that having an easy connection between a troublesome pair can make them much less likely to cause trouble. It depends on the synthesis of the entire chart.

It is so often a matter of energy. A chart with hard aspects is a more energetic chart. The Mars/Pluto square is found in champions which shows the benefits of challenge and energy.

Mars/Pluto often describes a workaholic or someone who works two jobs or works very long hours. That reveals something about the drive in the planetary pair. I think the easy aspects are more likely to show as a workaholic or someone who thrives on vigorous expenditures of energy.

Mars/Pluto carries much of the heights and depths belonging to Scorpio and Pluto. This complicates life for chart interpreters, since the contrast of heights and depths makes interpretation precarious. Some folks with Mars/Pluto aspects are very enthusiastic about metaphysics and the occult.

I do think the sextile is less easy than is often reported. I know the sextile of Mars/Saturn can be brilliantly helpful or downright deadly.

Cary2 04-07-2019 11:37 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
I have noticed something you might find bizarre. Sometimes easy aspects between a dangerous pair shows that you escape danger, but someone close to you does not.

david starling 04-07-2019 11:56 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Cary, what's your maximum Orb for a Grand Trine?

Lykanized 04-08-2019 05:18 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cary2 (Post 962758)
Of course, it is widely known that easy aspects have less challenge and less trouble. But the entire chart connects together in intricate ways, so that is the ultimate index.

When easy aspects contain factors that are hostile to each other, some of that challenge and turmoil remains even though the aspect is easy. But I can't deny that having an easy connection between a troublesome pair can make them much less likely to cause trouble. It depends on the synthesis of the entire chart.

It is so often a matter of energy. A chart with hard aspects is a more energetic chart. The Mars/Pluto square is found in champions which shows the benefits of challenge and energy.

Mars/Pluto often describes a workaholic or someone who works two jobs or works very long hours. That reveals something about the drive in the planetary pair. I think the easy aspects are more likely to show as a workaholic or someone who thrives on vigorous expenditures of energy.

Mars/Pluto carries much of the heights and depths belonging to Scorpio and Pluto. This complicates life for chart interpreters, since the contrast of heights and depths makes interpretation precarious. Some folks with Mars/Pluto aspects are very enthusiastic about metaphysics and the occult.

I do think the sextile is less easy than is often reported. I know the sextile of Mars/Saturn can be brilliantly helpful or downright deadly.

The sextile happens to be how my Mars and Pluto meet, but it also has trines to Neptune and Uranus and I do feel the trine is a lot easier since they're in the same element. It just feels like they understand each other on a deep level so it just flows. Sextiles don't have that so I can see what you're saying. My Mars ruler is trine Pluto and opposite Uranus/Neptune but I definitely feel the hit from Uranus/Neptune A LOT more


Most sources describe the trine as a slightly harder aspect tho. I wonder why

Cary2 04-08-2019 04:17 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lykanized (Post 963185)
The sextile happens to be how my Mars and Pluto meet, but it also has trines to Neptune and Uranus and I do feel the trine is a lot easier since they're in the same element. It just feels like they understand each other on a deep level so it just flows. Sextiles don't have that so I can see what you're saying. My Mars ruler is trine Pluto and opposite Uranus/Neptune but I definitely feel the hit from Uranus/Neptune A LOT more


Most sources describe the trine as a slightly harder aspect tho. I wonder why

Harder than the sextile? Not me. The only thing softer than a trine is a novile.

That doesn't mean I think the trine is weak. The squares become less troublesome in your 40's as you become seasoned and mature and familiar with the hurdles, but trines just persist.

I use a smaller orb for the sextile than most people. The orb I use for quintile and biquintile is larger than the sextile.

A close Grand Trine with small orbs all the way around is usually an affliction. The midpoints locked into such a configuration are the drivers, I think. I don't think it is due to the trine's normal qualities. I don't recall seeing a Minor Grand trine that was an affliction, though. Wide, skew Grand Trines are probably not an affliction. Or so I think.

Come to think of it. The sextiles in a Minor Grand trine may benefit from the involvement, or so I am inclined to think now.

conspiracy theorist 04-08-2019 04:34 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
That view of grand trines reminds me of the specific case of Jordan Belfort, who has a water grand trine of Cancer Sun - Scorpio Neptune - Pisces Jupiter. You could see how that played out in the movie "Wolf of Wall Street" which is said to be based on actual events in his life. As well as the many cases of serial killers and "bad" people who have little to no discordant aspects in their chart.

Cary2 04-08-2019 04:43 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by david starling (Post 963166)
Cary, what's your maximum Orb for a Grand Trine?

I use a very wide orb for Grand Trines because experience proves to me that is justified. I am amazed how often a skew Grand Trine is instrumental to chart interpretation.

Look at Mercury/Jupiter/Netpune in the charts, Marlon Brando, Jack Nicholson, and Meryl Streep. The two planetary pairs that most reliably describe an actor are Mars/Neptune and Mercury/Neptune. Mercury/Neptune/Jupiter often describes a successful actor. It can also describe a fine sense of humor. I have a friend born on Streep's birthday who is not an actor, but he has the best sense of humor of anyone I ever met. Mercury/Neptune "joker". My friend is known throughout our circles as a successful joker.

Cary2 04-08-2019 04:55 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist (Post 963303)
That view of grand trines reminds me of the specific case of Jordan Belfort, who has a water grand trine of Cancer Sun - Scorpio Neptune - Pisces Jupiter. You could see how that played out in the movie "Wolf of Wall Street" which is said to be based on actual events in his life. As well as the many cases of serial killers and "bad" people who have little to no discordant aspects in their chart.

Yeah. Sun/Jupiter/Neptune "gambler"


Jerry Sandusky has Sun/Mars/Neptune and the widest orb in the bunch is 2.4 degrees or so. This looks like an afliction to me.

Cary2 04-08-2019 09:00 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by david starling (Post 961886)
Cary, what's your take on Yods--meaningful or not important? I mean, do you consider them significant?

I'm sorry. You asked a question about Yods, but I answered with quincunxes.

I can skirt the many finicky rules about configurations because I have found that the chief property of a configuration is its meaningful connection of three or more factors. Whether I interpret a Yod or a Grand Trine, it is the three factors combined in meaning that I concentrate on. The fact that a Yod has a sextile and two quincunxes is secondary. I certainly do not view it as "Finger of God" whatever that means.

Notice how many astrologers try to esconce themselves in mystery. They have dreams of students at their feet while they evoke astrological confections. Finger of God indeed.

A proper Yod has one planet opposed the midpoint of the other two. That would be meaningful to Ebertin and his school without any consideration of the aspects involved. The addition of aspects, two quincunxes and one sexitle, is further refinement that expands the orbs a little. When midpoint pictures are combined with aspects, the orbs and the significance increases.

My interpretation will consist mainly of the three planet combination and the specific meaning implied by that. Oh, yes, and a Yod has strain and opportunity.

david starling 04-09-2019 01:20 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cary2 (Post 963367)
I'm sorry. You asked a question about Yods, but I answered with quincunxes.

I can skirt the many finicky rules about configurations because I have found that the chief property of a configuration is its meaningful connection of three or more factors. Whether I interpret a Yod or a Grand Trine, it is the three factors combined in meaning that I concentrate on. The fact that a Yod has a sextile and two quincunxes is secondary. I certainly do not view it as "Finger of God" whatever that means.

Notice how many astrologers try to esconce themselves in mystery. They have dreams of students at their feet while they evoke astrological confections. Finger of God indeed.

A proper Yod has one planet opposed the midpoint of the other two. That would be meaningful to Ebertin and his school without any consideration of the aspects involved. The addition of aspects, two quincunxes and one sexitle, is further refinement that expands the orbs a little. When midpoint pictures are combined with aspects, the orbs and the significance increases.

My interpretation will consist mainly of the three planet combination and the specific meaning implied by that. Oh, yes, and a Yod has strain and opportunity.

"Strain and opportunity"! Excellent description. Opportunity knocks, but it's a strain to open the door. Requires a reason for motivation, besides just the Yod alone.

Here's a heavy one--total Solar eclipse on one's SR Day. I know someone who's going to have that, Sun in :cancer:. Not sure how to explain what it portends.

ElviraM 04-09-2019 02:17 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
My sons have an almost exact Pluto Mars opposition. it seems to play out as ability to achieve their goals despite difficult situations occurring. Its an inner personal power thing too they have an inner resource which they can call on.
When doing a project they will stick at it till its done exactly perfectly. They like to do something 100% eg if they are making something they will attend to every exactly detail until they are satisfied it is the best.
They don't have any other Pluto aspects.

david starling 04-09-2019 02:24 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ElviraM (Post 963443)
My sons have an almost exact Pluto Mars opposition. it seems to play out as ability to achieve their goals despite difficult situations occurring. Its an inner personal power thing too they have an inner resource which they can call on.
When doing a project they will stick at it till its done exactly perfectly. They like to do something 100% eg if they are making something they will attend to every exactly detail until they are satisfied it is the best.
They don't have any other Pluto aspects.

What Signs are they in?

Cary2 04-09-2019 02:36 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ElviraM (Post 963443)
My sons have an almost exact Pluto Mars opposition. it seems to play out as ability to achieve their goals despite difficult situations occurring. Its an inner personal power thing too they have an inner resource which they can call on.
When doing a project they will stick at it till its done exactly perfectly. They like to do something 100% eg if they are making something they will attend to every exactly detail until they are satisfied it is the best.
They don't have any other Pluto aspects.

Yes, Mars/Pluto loves a challenge, and they invest themselves "whole hog".

Cary2 04-09-2019 04:04 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
You may know who Lindsey Buckingham is, he was the lead guitarist, male singer, and contributing songwriter for the band Fleetwood Mac. His relationship with the others in the band, especially his ex-lover Stevie Nicks, is very rocky. In fact, he was recently fired from the band as they prepared for a new world tour.

Buckingham has a close Mars/Pluto conjunction closely conjunct his Ascendant squared to Venus. This is not a simple Mars/Pluto issue since Mars/Asc and Pluto/Asc are very important contributors. The band reveal only that he is difficult without getting specific. Buckingham and Nicks parted as lovers near the height of the band's success, but they continued to be coworkers in the band.

Buckingham is a musical genius, and Brian Wilson is another genius from the Beach Boys. Wilson admires Buckingham, and he was excited to work with him in the studio, but said that he was more intense than anyone he had ever known. Wilson said he was actually "scared" a few times because of Buckingham's "intensity".

david starling 04-09-2019 06:00 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Why a career in music?
Another musical genius, Neil Young, has Pluto in Leo Sq. Asc in Scorpio.

Cary2 04-09-2019 06:20 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by david starling (Post 963561)
Why a career in music?

.

When I learned astrology, I went the usual contemporary astrology route. I followed the rules even if the rules changed from one astrologer to the next. I continued to have just enough astrological epiphanies that I stayed interested and motivated, but I was not happy with the astrological advice that I was getting. I could see that many of the standard methods weren't working nearly well enough for me. The dispositor method was particularly unreliable.

I found a book (I was buying many books) called "Synthesis" by Tracy Marks. That book kicked me in the butt, and my accuracy and skill jumped up a half dozen notches. It opened my eyes, and I began to explore further. Now, I don't use her method today because I have refined my own, but her method helped me in my path.

Most people declare the chart ruler by the planet ruling the Ascendant unless there is something conjunct the Ascendant, then it becomes the ruler. What I say is, there is a better way, and you will find NOT just one ruler but a pecking order of rulers that leads you through synthesis.

What planets are closest to the four angles, As, Mc, Ds, Ic? Those are the rulers. Often the closest is the chief. You may find aspects this way, and it is great if you discover that there is a ruling aspect rather than a ruling planet because an aspect is more focused and specific.

For Buckingham, It is Mars/Pluto/Venus. Rock (Mars) Music (Venus). The Mars/Venus square is the ruler of his chart. It is more reliable than the sign on the Mc or most of the other guides that you are given.

Cary2 04-09-2019 06:26 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Moon is also a ruler, but it doesn't contradict the music career tilt.

david starling 04-09-2019 06:30 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Neil Young has a tight Mars/Venus Sq. in Fire and Water (0 degrees :leo:/ 0 degrees :scorpio:), and a Grand Trine in Air, including :uranus: in Gemini.

Cary2 04-09-2019 06:37 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by david starling (Post 963561)
Why a career in music?
Another musical genius, Neil Young, has Pluto in Leo Sq. Asc in Scorpio.

Well theres not much confidence in data, and finding rulers relies on reliable data. But he does have Venus-square-Mars.

david starling 04-09-2019 06:46 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
How many musicians have you checked? It's such an expressive group. What about Bob Dylan?

david starling 04-09-2019 06:57 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cary2 (Post 963576)
Well theres not much confidence in data, and finding rulers relies on reliable data. But he does have Venus-square-Mars.

Yeah, a Ridden rating of 3. A lot could change.

Cary2 04-09-2019 08:06 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by david starling (Post 963580)
How many musicians have you checked? It's such an expressive group. What about Bob Dylan?

Do you know your planetary pairs? Do you have Ebertin's guide, Seymour-Smith's guide, Martin Freedman's guide, Rob Hand's guide? Mercury/Venus is one of the guides to music and art. Venus/Neptune is. Venus/Mars is. Of course there is Venus.

Bob Dylan's chart has Mercury/Venus as the closest factors to his angles. Furthermore, Venus trines his MC. Mercury squares his Neptune. "Boy, that guy is hard to understand. What does he mean, 'the vandals took the handles'"?

Cary2 04-09-2019 08:14 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Song (Venus) writer (Mercury)

Cary2 04-09-2019 09:36 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Let's say Lindsey Buckingham comes to you for a natal chart reading. You see that Pluto, Mars, Venus, and Moon rule his chart, and Mars squares Venus.

See here, young man, your life will be dominated significantly by a passionate relationship with a lover (Mars/Pluto/Venus), but it is a very difficult relationship, your lover may become frightened of your intensity. She may grow weary of the strife. Your reaction of intense emotionalism is tiring.

But you might take a path in art or music. Maybe Rock (Mars) Music (Venus). You may find fame (Pluto/Ascendant).

This is what you do with rulers.

david starling 04-10-2019 04:52 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cary2 (Post 963602)
Do you know your planetary pairs? Do you have Ebertin's guide, Seymour-Smith's guide, Martin Freedman's guide, Rob Hand's guide? Mercury/Venus is one of the guides to music and art. Venus/Neptune is. Venus/Mars is. Of course there is Venus.

Bob Dylan's chart has Mercury/Venus as the closest factors to his angles. Furthermore, Venus trines his MC. Mercury squares his Neptune. "Boy, that guy is hard to understand. What does he mean, 'the vandals took the handles'"?

"God knows when, but he's doin' it again!" -{B.D.}. :lol:

conspiracy theorist 04-11-2019 08:13 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Hi Cary, I have a question on midpoints. Do you count as significant the converging of many midpoints at one location? Do they constitute a legitimate planetary bend? Say the Mars/Pluto and Moon/Jupiter midpoint both fell on 12 Scorpio, would you count this as a Mars-Pluto-Moon-Jupiter blend to be interpreted as if they were all in aspect? (I don't have this in my chart)

Cary2 04-11-2019 08:27 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist (Post 963952)
Hi Cary, I have a question on midpoints. Do you count as significant the converging of many midpoints at one location? Do they constitute a legitimate planetary bend? Say the Mars/Pluto and Moon/Jupiter midpoint both fell on 12 Scorpio, would you count this as a Mars-Pluto-Moon-Jupiter blend to be interpreted as if they were all in aspect? (I don't have this in my chart)


I believe the Cosmobiologists use such techniques as valid, and I believe Martin Seymour-Smith did, but I rarely need to dig that deeply. I think it matters when you want to solve a puzzle about a chart, but I usually don't find myself resorting to it.

david starling 04-12-2019 05:38 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Cary, would mind weighing in on my new thread concerning Parallels in the Aspects and Configurations forum?

Cary2 04-12-2019 06:03 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by david starling (Post 964207)
Cary, would mind weighing in on my new thread concerning Parallels in the Aspects and Configurations forum?

I don't use parallels in my work. I have not seen enough evidence that it is worth the trouble.

david starling 04-12-2019 05:46 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
The transiting Moon is currently opposition the transiting Saturn close-conjunct Pluto midpoint. If this were in a Natal-chart, how important would the midpoint be, compared to just the two oppositions?

Cary2 04-12-2019 06:05 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by david starling (Post 964322)
The transiting Moon is currently opposition the transiting Saturn close-conjunct Pluto midpoint. If this were in a Natal-chart, how important would the midpoint be, compared to just the two oppositions?

"Close conjunct " what X/Pluto midpoint? Pluto and what has a midpoint?

david starling 04-12-2019 06:18 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Saturn 20 degrees :capricorn:/Pluto 23 degrees :capricorn:.
Moon about 22 degrees :cancer:.

Cary2 04-12-2019 06:31 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by david starling (Post 964327)
Saturn 20 degrees :capricorn:/Pluto 23 degrees :capricorn:.
Moon about 22 degrees :cancer:.

That in a natal chart would indicate a very difficult relationship with the mother. One's background may include cruelty that might also be expressed by the native. There is probably an occult aptitude. One may need therapy but resist the need, or encounter a difficult experience with therapy.

More: A brutal suppression of feelings.

Not all the suggestions need apply. We judge which by conformation with the rest of the chart.

david starling 04-12-2019 06:34 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cary2 (Post 964331)
That in a natal chart would indicate a very difficult relationship with the mother. One's background may include cruelty that might also be expressed by the native. There is probably an occult aptitude. One may need therapy but resist the need, or encounter a difficult experience with therapy.

Not all the suggestions need apply. We judge which by conformation with the rest of the chart.

Do Saturn and Pluto combine their natures at the midpoint?
Both the Moon and Saturn are in Domicle, which ups the stakes.

Cary2 04-12-2019 06:37 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
You could have expressed that as Moon = Saturn/Pluto or Moon oppose Saturn/Pluto. In your example with signs, the background and parental issues are accentuated.

Cary2 04-12-2019 06:40 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by david starling (Post 964333)
Do Saturn and Pluto combine their natures at the midpoint?
Both the Moon and Saturn are in Domicle, which ups the stakes.

I see it that way. It would call attention to the matter most emphatically. I feel that way because I find the signs involved help interpret the connections, not because I follow the elaborate rulership scheme of traditional astrology. I have seen how important Moon is in its own sign and Saturn in his.

david starling 04-12-2019 06:42 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
I'm trying (ineptly) to ask if you would consider the Saturn/Pluto midpoint as an important consideration, apart from the two separate oppositions. I'm not well-defined in midpoint astrology.

david starling 04-12-2019 06:44 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Would Saturn represent father-issues?

Cary2 04-12-2019 06:48 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by david starling (Post 964339)
I'm trying (ineptly) to ask if you would consider the Saturn/Pluto midpoint as an important consideration, apart from the two separate oppositions. I'm not well-defined in midpoint astrology.

That's a good question but a tough question. If there were merely the aspectual connection but not in orb of a midpoint, it is still the same theme. If there is a midpoint connection and a a dual oppostion, that would be extra emphasis, the kind of extra emphasis that might apply with smaller, more exact orbs.

It is only a difference of emphasis. The three planets in combination retain the same theme due to the blend Moon/Saturn/Pluto.


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