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BaoSanniang 01-05-2019 01:39 AM

Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
A pattern I've noticed is I tend to be wary and sort of repulsed by people who have multiple aspects between their natal planets and Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto, or when at least one of the 3 outer planets aspects their ascendant or falls in an angular house. It's like they possess a kind of energy I can't understand or harness.

One of my least favorite aspects in someone else's natal chart, and one I've noticed in the charts of a few people I deem to be crazy / unstable in some way, is a connection between Mars and Pluto. This is adding to the list that contains aspects such as Sun / Moon-Uranus, Sun / Moon-Neptune, and Mercury-Uranus / Neptune. While those aspects can make someone very unusual / eccentric, whether they're smooth or challenging, I noticed this aspect has the potential to make someone extremely dangerous and volatile unless there are key mitigating factors and / or if the Mars-Pluto have enough distance between each other.

I've read it's one of the aspects most commonly found in the charts of career criminals including some of the most infamous serial killers in modern times. Mars-Pluto represents the convergence of two potentially malefic energies, one that I feel many people do not know how to channel. Mars alone is impulsive, driven, and combative, but Pluto adds darkness, secrecy, lust for power and control, and the desire to destroy / transform with an almost inhuman strength and a ruthless desire to survive and get by at all costs. A very dangerous combination indeed.

Now you may wonder, does a Mars-Pluto connection simply point to a Scorpio-like energy? I think while it does highlight many of Scorpio's negative traits, it's a more raw and darker expression of that energy compared to someone who's simply a Scorpio. Regardless of someone's sun sign, it seems like this aspect gives them a side to their personality that's Machiavellian at the least, and utterly manipulative and destructive at most.

Mars-Pluto gives someone a raging fire deep within their souls and psyches. A need to transform both their inner landscape and the world around them into both a metaphorical and literal battlefield of some sort. It's like these people find it almost impossible to truly be at peace with either themselves or others, because Pluto means regeneration and transformation. They may show you glimpses of their anger through outbursts and heated words, but you're only scratching their surface. I highly doubt these people will reveal the full extent, or even a large extent of their true feelings. You can never quite figure them out as they both consciously and subconsciously feel the need to maintain a degree of separation from everyone.

Intimate relationships with these people can be very challenging, because they give off a kind of energy that makes you never quite able to feel at ease with them, yet when you try to close the distance and really try to understand them they fight back and shut themselves. I think this is especially the case if they also have prominent Uranus / Neptune. You feel like you can never really get to know them. They tend to be domineering and manipulative, never at peace with themselves, and feel a need to control and change people around them into people they're not. When people resist, they feel a deep sense of resentment that has the potential to drive them into taking extreme actions. To have Mars-Pluto and to feel at ease with yourself and with others are inherently contradictory states of being, unless there are several mitigating factors or unless the individual possesses an extremely high degree of self-awareness.

Mars-Pluto fuses an infantile force with one that's dark and scheming. As a Cancer, I feel as if my nurturing sensitivity can't tame the beast in these people, because they'll feel something's missing in their lives if they can't fight, if they can't control, if they can't transform. If I get too close to them, their flames of darkness will repel me. If I get too close to these people, sometimes I feel their energy also affects me negatively. The fighter / killer instinct in them also rouses mine in a strange way that makes me want to kill them because I also start to feel a kind of seething rage towards them. It's like I consider them trash that the world would be better off without.

These people have such a strong survival instinct even in the face of seemingly insurmountable crises. They'll do just about anything to survive, to get by. They also have a frightening ability to control themselves and suppress emotions, yet it's all to conceal the dark, raging fire underneath. They seem to never show any fear, and may even welcome situations (consciously and / or subconsciously) that bring others lots of fear and uneasiness. They'll never quite be happy with themselves or the people in close relationships with them unless they're mature and self-aware to the point where they can channel these two energies effectively and efficiently.

Someone I know with Mars-Pluto in opposition (less than 2 degrees apart) treats people with a utilitarian attitude, though she'll rarely admit it. Her 'me, me, me' (Mars) combined with Pluto's desire to control, manipulate, and destroy gives her great difficulty in all of her relationships, but at the same time people can never quite figure her out because she maintains emotional distance from everyone in her life. She went through a troubled marriage and divorce and deeply resents her ex-husband even after almost 20 years, but still keeps him on social media and refuses to delete him. I asked her why, and she said "you should always keep people around when they may be of use to you. Even if you hate them, you can just ignore them whenever you wish, but if they're of use to you in some way you must not outright cut ties with them." She also desires to see her ex-husband miserable, although she'll never admit it. If someone asked her she'll say "I wish the best for him." I have absolutely no clue how her ex-husband may still be "of use" to her considering the fact they've been divorced for so long and he has remarried, and I guess I'll never find out what she truly thinks and why she does the things the does on just about everything, and in my opinion, such people will be determined to take their secrets to the grave. She also has Mars in Pisces (28.59 degrees) in the 8th house.

I believe that Mars-Pluto people, unless they put great effort into being aware of this energy and working to overcome it, will find it nearly impossible to bond with others in a way that's healthy and productive for both sides. They need to realize that their relationship with themselves, with others, and with life in general does not need to be a constant state of war and tension. To find the peace and tranquility that will benefit both themselves and others, they need to let go and move on from their "default" state of mind / being which dictates to them that there must always be something going on, something that keeps them on their feet and / or occupied in their minds. In terms of their expectations, they need to be aware of their desire to constantly manipulate and transform both themselves and those around them. If they can channel the volatile energy into a way that allows for its effective release without harming themselves or others, then that would be best. They need to set realistic expectations for themselves and for others, accepting that peace and stability are not only equally valid ways of being, but ultimately higher and more positive ways of being. Until they learn to extinguish these dark flames within themselves, they will project their darkness onto others, and any perceived undesirable aspects in others will be viewed beyond mere annoyances and things to accept / work with, but things that need to be destroyed so that they can remake the other person but only in their image and on their terms. When that fails due to the other person's unwillingness, Mars-Pluto people often hit a dead end and they fall even deeper into their emotional black hole. Sadly, most people never know how to handle

I've also read natal planet-Pluto can mean dark family secrets that have a significant influence on one's personality and life course. From your experience, is that true?

For those of you here who know people with a Mars-Pluto aspect, or if you have one yourself, what are your feelings and experiences with it? Do you feel it's something that can potentially make someone, or yourself, very volatile?


it.

Starsareround 01-05-2019 02:29 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Great question. I can say that in my family, both my late father and I have the wide square (about 7 degrees out), and neither of us are/were violent people. My dad did get heavily involved in karate when he was younger, and was generally pretty athletically fearless. He used to cycle everyday to and from work (10 miles each way) in all weather by choice. I guess I take after him in that I will run/hike miles in all weather, and I NEED to excersize in nature in order to feel grounded. I do feel that that drive may be connected to Pluto, as it feels pretty primal and uncivilized. I do have a temper, but I do not stay angry and cannot recall harboring anger against anyone for any length of time. It may be that my square is too wide to really put me in danger, I have heard a lot about the negative results of this aspect and Iím curious to read others experience...

StelliumNoise 01-05-2019 03:56 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
I have Mars (11th) trine Pluto (3rd). I have every reason to be rude/nasty/hateful/revengeful...these are typical symptoms of dysfunction, that's the only reason I say "every reason to be"...but I don't have the urge to hate or be calculated in negativity.

I've also read natal planet-Pluto can mean dark family secrets that have a significant influence on one's personality and life course. From your experience, is that true?

True for me


They may show you glimpses of their anger through outbursts and heated words, but you're only scratching their surface. I highly doubt these people will reveal the full extent, or even a large extent of their true feelings. You can never quite figure them out as they both consciously and subconsciously feel the need to maintain a degree of separation from everyone.

As someone who has been through quite a lot of traumatic experiences, I find that its not really about maintaining a degree of separation - I am separated. I am different.

Until they learn to extinguish these dark flames within themselves, they will project their darkness onto others, and any perceived undesirable aspects in others will be viewed beyond mere annoyances and things to accept / work with, but things that need to be destroyed so that they can remake the other person but only in their image and on their terms. When that fails due to the other person's unwillingness, Mars-Pluto people often hit a dead end and they fall even deeper into their emotional black hole. Sadly, most people never know how to handle

I agree with this as a principle it makes sense

Oddity 01-05-2019 04:05 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
This may be part of the reason why I gave up using outer planets in my own practice more than 20 years ago.

I've got all of them. Moon-Mars-Pluto, Sun-Pluto, Sun-Neptune, Sun-Uranus, I could go on. The outers are all very prominent in my chart and most of my planets connect in a very tight pattern.

Bad childhood, that I'll attest to. For the rest - not a violent guy, possibly crazy because who devotes this much time to astrology and isn't?

It got tiring reading about it, tiring when other astrologers looked at my chart and started in about it, and as far as I can tell, there really isn't much basis to these interpretations.

I have occasional lost it with a bit of obstinate machinery, but not with people. Not seething trying to hold back stuff, but just - not something I want to do.

Lykanized 01-05-2019 07:05 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Hmm, I'm a Cancer, but from your description, I would probably be very offputting to you. Most of my Pluto aspects are easy save for the generational square to Saturn, but I have a lot of them, to almost every planet. Uranus and Neptune are both heavily present in my inner planets too, including oppositions to my sun and to Mercury and trines to my moon and Mars

As for Mars-Pluto... I have a sextile, but it's not too tight. Mars is in my 1st house, Pluto in my 3rd. Would you think me to fit into the category of people you're talking about? The aspect for me is 5* so that might save me, yet I still feel the beast within and I have to tame her. It may be because the beast itself is so magnetic to those who feel it in them it's so easy to let out

And as for family secrets...My family happens to be quite Scorpionic and for that reason, I think there are many anger issues, manipulation, power struggles, but also dealings with spirits of a dark nature. I've been attacked by demons and so has my mother and I know they've been very active in our lives before being expelled. My family isn't very close to external relatives even first cousins and aunts and uncles and the such, we're quite isolated. Lot's of resentment has run through but I believe it's gone cold by now thankfully
--Anger. Rage. My mom had rage issues as I was growing up that did leave a mark on me, it was a demon she picked up from her own family. but she's put in heavy spiritual work over the years
-Because of the mark it's left on me, I have trouble trusting people to some extent so I can be very guarded but then become manipulative if they seem like they're betraying my trust they never asked for. I certainly have my own issues with people I need to work out and I've thankfully put in a lot of work already that I don't think this is so much an issue anymore

Because my Mars is in Virgo and Pluto/Scorpio is in my 3rd house, it's my mind that's most dangerous. Granted, I'm a very carnal person by nature and I love the raw energy of fighting, sex, anything intense and the more intense the better. I'm highly attracted to darkness and tend to favor it over light, but my whole philosophy is to find the light in the darkness. I deal in opposing forces

I consider myself a goodwilled person, but I cannot deny there is something dark in me I often have to quell and at times has taken root in me. I've had power fantasies and I don't feel I should delve into those. There's a part of me that can be so no nonsense, so no ******** that I lose patience with people who can't keep up with my pace before I correct myself

I sometimes, when I feel I've been hurt, have trouble controlling my anger. It takes me a lot to get to this point, but when it happens, I hit right where it hurts. I use words. I can be volatile, but usually against my own self. I can be highly unpredictable but it's probably the Uranus aspects

I've had many issues with people in the past, but I'm very selfaware and I've put a lot of work into myself. Ultimately Pluto dominates because it fears being dominated. It is quite primal, I think, especially when you add in Mars. So I think tapping into what we fear is the key to relieving Plutonian issues lest we live a life continuously externalizing our fears, seeking to change and manipulate the external rather than our own selves

BaoSanniang 01-05-2019 07:50 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
@Lykanized:

No, I don' think you'd fall into the category of people whom I find curious yet repulsed by. The fact that you're aware of where the energy comes from and what it has done to you / could do to you, is something I feel already puts you at a higher level than most. I believe the kind of people I'm talking about mostly have the challenging aspects (conjunction, square, opposition), and I think the challenging aspects between Mars and Pluto, especially the square and opposition, cause the most harm for both the native themselves and those around them. Also, like I said, it depends on the distance between the two planets, I think the effects become most evident when both planets are less than 2-3 degrees apart because then it would be so integrated into their personalities but not in a good way.

Since Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are generational planets representing universal forces beyond one's control, do people whose natal planets aspect one or more of the three feel a sense that some inexplicable happenings come knocking at their door, bringing certain situations into their life whether they want them or not?

Since Mars represents a natal / personal energy that can shape how we respond to situations, while Pluto represents a more impersonal energy, do you feel that in your life you've often found yourself in heated, even dangerous situations that you feel were beyond any measure of control or anticipation? How do you feel if you keep getting into these situations?

To me, perhaps the negative effects of aspects between Mars and Pluto are most pronounced and noticeable with the negative aspects and when the planets are close to each other. I'll elaborate more on the woman I used as an example in my post and how I believe she demonstrates a very typical Mars-Pluto hard aspect when personified:

She has a very black-and-white world view not in the sense we typically understand it, which is right versus wrong or good versus evil. She is, to be honest, quite morally gray when it comes to many things, but what I mean by her black-and-white world view is that she believes in strength versus weakness, might makes right. She's a very troubled, even tortured person on the inside, I can feel she has lots of pain and anger that's yet to be released, but she distrusts emotion and keeps pressuring herself to not be in touch with her emotions (Aquarius sun, Mercury in Capricorn, Venus in Aquarius). What few glimpses people close to her get into her inner life come out as very unusual, eccentric, and dysfunctional to people who are sensitive (Moon Sextile Uranus, Mercury Square Uranus). The way she presents herself and deals with people involves an element of deception (Sun-Neptune, Mars-Neptune, Venus-Neptune). It's very hard for people to believe that she has so much capacity for being cold-bloodedand storing up so much rage when people interact with her on a shallow level. Her Moon in XII adds another veil of secrecy to her inner life though both her Moon and Ascendant are in Leo.

She always keeps a large part of her to herself, even from people close to her. Nobody really knows who she is, because even her interactions with other people are highly purposeful and controlled. She always wants to dictate the terms of her interactions with other people (Pluto), and she often does so in a very uncomfortable and domineering manner (Mars). Her life seems to be a never-ending cycle of manipulation and power-plays. It has colored her psyche so much that I don't believe she's still capable of having a healthy relationship with anyone unless she can really use that Pluto energy to not try to destroy others, but to channel it in a positive way towards self-awareness and to really look into her relationship with power and manipulation and why she needs so much of it. I feel she also needs to work on her Uranus and Neptune so she can get back in touch with both herself and with others.

I've never really understood the effects of the 3 outer planets on one's life until quite recently, and from what I have seen, they really affect, even override other factors. The woman in question also has Venus Square Jupiter and Venus Opposition Saturn, as well as Mars Trine Neptune and Mars Opposition Uranus (albeit a very wide conjunction). She's a very paranoid person who has done bad things in the past but never confronts them. She tries to rationalize them. She believes the worst in people, and she is always afraid that someone's going to harm her. I don't know if it's enough to be described as hyper-vigilance, but it sure feels like a very high degree of vigilance at all times that she can't seem to shake off even in her intimate relationships. In fact, I sometimes have doubts whether she actually wants intimacy, or if she's still capable of intimacy. She also refuses to speak much about her past, and me being one of her relatives I know virtually nothing about her life before the age of 22-24, and I have doubts over how much of what she's told me is true or if it's all just what she wants me to believe.

She gets very defensive when people get close to her and try to make her see herself for who she really is. By making her see herself for who she really is, I'm talking about some very dark and secretive things. I'm also starting to wonder whether her conscious and unconscious distance from others is, oddly enough, functioning as a line of defense for the other person because somewhere deep in her she knows she is too damaged and that she's capable of devastating someone who gets too close, yet a lot of times she just can't help but let out some of the beast in her because it's as if these forces control her rather than her being in control of them. I feel I've yet to see the full extent of her madness, but I'm a bit curious to see what it's like. She's darn protective of her privacy in everything she says and everything she does.

She's NOT aware of any of this, as far as I can see. I wonder what would ultimately save her and give her peace and make her more "real." As I am typing I am imagining a literal dark, primal, raging beast with human skin as its disguise, a beast that needs to be chained to the bottom of the darkest hell.

I don't have Virgo in my chart but my Venus and Mars are in the 6th house and my Mercury, which is also the ruler of my 7th house (Gemini), is in Cancer, so I feel like I relate more to descriptions of Venus / Mars in Cancer and Venus / Mars in Virgo. I'm not one to pick fights or arguments, I react very passively in response to someone else but when I do I can be quite sharp-tongued and I like to go for the other person's emotional jugulars, if you know what I mean. When I really get into a conflict with someone it's anything but shallow or merely intellectual. I also look out for what makes people tick emotionally, rather than intellectually.


In my opinion, I don't think very difficult aspects such as a difficult one between Mars and Pluto is something that simple Cancer or Pisces or Scorpio energy will be able to handle. I don't know if any of you agree or disagree, but here's what I think:

While both Mars / Pluto and water energies are deeply emotional and can be very intense, water wants to feel safe and secure. Mars / Pluto finds it difficult to cope with too much safety and security, they're always looking for something, fighting something that water alone will not be able to provide and tranquilize.

Water is emotional, it's about moods and feelings. Mars / Pluto is also about moods and emotions, but what's more dangerous about it is the fire within that most seem unable to control, and that translates into actions that could be destructive on noticeable scales.

Somna7H 01-05-2019 09:51 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Though in Reality not even s little Kitty afraid of me instead they love me. Only human being did bad with me so I hate them but rage ? I never used it at 100% cos there is always Saturn behind me.

Have Mars Conjunct Pluto in Libra 6th House. Thank you OP!

love-thinking 01-06-2019 08:03 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BaoSanniang (Post 939527)
A pattern I've noticed is I tend to be wary and sort of repulsed by people who have multiple aspects between their natal planets and Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto, or when at least one of the 3 outer planets aspects their ascendant or falls in an angular house. It's like they possess a kind of energy I can't understand or harness.

One of my least favorite aspects in someone else's natal chart, and one I've noticed in the charts of a few people I deem to be crazy / unstable in some way, is a connection between Mars and Pluto. This is adding to the list that contains aspects such as Sun / Moon-Uranus, Sun / Moon-Neptune, and Mercury-Uranus / Neptune. While those aspects can make someone very unusual / eccentric, whether they're smooth or challenging, I noticed this aspect has the potential to make someone extremely dangerous and volatile unless there are key mitigating factors and / or if the Mars-Pluto have enough distance between each other.

I've read it's one of the aspects most commonly found in the charts of career criminals including some of the most infamous serial killers in modern times. Mars-Pluto represents the convergence of two potentially malefic energies, one that I feel many people do not know how to channel. Mars alone is impulsive, driven, and combative, but Pluto adds darkness, secrecy, lust for power and control, and the desire to destroy / transform with an almost inhuman strength and a ruthless desire to survive and get by at all costs. A very dangerous combination indeed.

Now you may wonder, does a Mars-Pluto connection simply point to a Scorpio-like energy? I think while it does highlight many of Scorpio's negative traits, it's a more raw and darker expression of that energy compared to someone who's simply a Scorpio. Regardless of someone's sun sign, it seems like this aspect gives them a side to their personality that's Machiavellian at the least, and utterly manipulative and destructive at most.

Mars-Pluto gives someone a raging fire deep within their souls and psyches. A need to transform both their inner landscape and the world around them into both a metaphorical and literal battlefield of some sort. It's like these people find it almost impossible to truly be at peace with either themselves or others, because Pluto means regeneration and transformation. They may show you glimpses of their anger through outbursts and heated words, but you're only scratching their surface. I highly doubt these people will reveal the full extent, or even a large extent of their true feelings. You can never quite figure them out as they both consciously and subconsciously feel the need to maintain a degree of separation from everyone.

Intimate relationships with these people can be very challenging, because they give off a kind of energy that makes you never quite able to feel at ease with them, yet when you try to close the distance and really try to understand them they fight back and shut themselves. I think this is especially the case if they also have prominent Uranus / Neptune. You feel like you can never really get to know them. They tend to be domineering and manipulative, never at peace with themselves, and feel a need to control and change people around them into people they're not. When people resist, they feel a deep sense of resentment that has the potential to drive them into taking extreme actions. To have Mars-Pluto and to feel at ease with yourself and with others are inherently contradictory states of being, unless there are several mitigating factors or unless the individual possesses an extremely high degree of self-awareness.

Mars-Pluto fuses an infantile force with one that's dark and scheming. As a Cancer, I feel as if my nurturing sensitivity can't tame the beast in these people, because they'll feel something's missing in their lives if they can't fight, if they can't control, if they can't transform. If I get too close to them, their flames of darkness will repel me. If I get too close to these people, sometimes I feel their energy also affects me negatively. The fighter / killer instinct in them also rouses mine in a strange way that makes me want to kill them because I also start to feel a kind of seething rage towards them. It's like I consider them trash that the world would be better off without.

These people have such a strong survival instinct even in the face of seemingly insurmountable crises. They'll do just about anything to survive, to get by. They also have a frightening ability to control themselves and suppress emotions, yet it's all to conceal the dark, raging fire underneath. They seem to never show any fear, and may even welcome situations (consciously and / or subconsciously) that bring others lots of fear and uneasiness. They'll never quite be happy with themselves or the people in close relationships with them unless they're mature and self-aware to the point where they can channel these two energies effectively and efficiently.

Someone I know with Mars-Pluto in opposition (less than 2 degrees apart) treats people with a utilitarian attitude, though she'll rarely admit it. Her 'me, me, me' (Mars) combined with Pluto's desire to control, manipulate, and destroy gives her great difficulty in all of her relationships, but at the same time people can never quite figure her out because she maintains emotional distance from everyone in her life. She went through a troubled marriage and divorce and deeply resents her ex-husband even after almost 20 years, but still keeps him on social media and refuses to delete him. I asked her why, and she said "you should always keep people around when they may be of use to you. Even if you hate them, you can just ignore them whenever you wish, but if they're of use to you in some way you must not outright cut ties with them." She also desires to see her ex-husband miserable, although she'll never admit it. If someone asked her she'll say "I wish the best for him." I have absolutely no clue how her ex-husband may still be "of use" to her considering the fact they've been divorced for so long and he has remarried, and I guess I'll never find out what she truly thinks and why she does the things the does on just about everything, and in my opinion, such people will be determined to take their secrets to the grave. She also has Mars in Pisces (28.59 degrees) in the 8th house.

I believe that Mars-Pluto people, unless they put great effort into being aware of this energy and working to overcome it, will find it nearly impossible to bond with others in a way that's healthy and productive for both sides. They need to realize that their relationship with themselves, with others, and with life in general does not need to be a constant state of war and tension. To find the peace and tranquility that will benefit both themselves and others, they need to let go and move on from their "default" state of mind / being which dictates to them that there must always be something going on, something that keeps them on their feet and / or occupied in their minds. In terms of their expectations, they need to be aware of their desire to constantly manipulate and transform both themselves and those around them. If they can channel the volatile energy into a way that allows for its effective release without harming themselves or others, then that would be best. They need to set realistic expectations for themselves and for others, accepting that peace and stability are not only equally valid ways of being, but ultimately higher and more positive ways of being. Until they learn to extinguish these dark flames within themselves, they will project their darkness onto others, and any perceived undesirable aspects in others will be viewed beyond mere annoyances and things to accept / work with, but things that need to be destroyed so that they can remake the other person but only in their image and on their terms. When that fails due to the other person's unwillingness, Mars-Pluto people often hit a dead end and they fall even deeper into their emotional black hole. Sadly, most people never know how to handle

I've also read natal planet-Pluto can mean dark family secrets that have a significant influence on one's personality and life course. From your experience, is that true?

For those of you here who know people with a Mars-Pluto aspect, or if you have one yourself, what are your feelings and experiences with it? Do you feel it's something that can potentially make someone, or yourself, very volatile?


it.


I have sun in a larger orb to neptune and mars, moon trine mars, neptune and uranus, and moon opposite pluto. Mercury conjunct uranus and neptune in aquarius. Moon in the 8th house.

Mars and neptune are at an angle in my chart.

About mars-pluto, all I gotta say is that mars-pluto is not really personal to the native per se, and not as much a part of their character as it is their conditioning.

It's possible mars-pluto had an awful time at some point in their life that caused them to have machiavellian traits.

I am currently going through the transit and I am literally kept on my toes.

Mars in the 8th house is supposed to attract sexual abuse of some sort so you can only imagine what mars-pluto is like.

I don't blame you for not liking transpersonal planet people, I believe they're the least likely to abide to social conventions. Neptune and pluto are all about feelings, bonding and intimacy. Neither like small talk. Uranus is about the exchange of ideas and so they can come off as very strong, and out there.

I feel like people are attracted to me because I am different; perhaps magnetic. But they drop me the moment I fail to meet an expectation or get disappointed even harder when I do something minor. People expect more than I can give them sometime, and they love my energy. Sometimes I see people gain self-esteem the moment they are around me or leave me.

With boys, I'm usually very magnetic, and they obsess with me for a while until they realize I am not what they are looking for or sometimes it's as petty as me not meeting a social convention.

I had a guy who literally used to call me for weeks, stop being interested solely because I said I found astrology interesting.

I'm not society's standard; nor am I society's recommended sweetheart. I don't fit in anywhere nor will I ever will.

I think transpersonal planets to personal planets/strong in one's chart denotes a very strong mental/emotional/sexual-pluto fixation throughout one's life almost to a point where they may even slightly neglect other parts of their life.

That's why they often don't meet all of society's standards unless you know pluto has ambition.

There's a purpose for that like there is a purpose to every archetype.

yuriv 01-07-2019 12:01 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
It's a well written post. I think I can understand where you are coming from albeit I don't agree with it all. Recently my siblings mentioned how much I have changed and even going as far as to say they miss when I was more quiet and was quite a mystery to them. Reason being that I am more goofy now and these days they just want me to shut up. The way i work with intimacy is such that it's really hard to really figure me out. This is because I am still figuring myself out. I am like my own psychologist.I seem to have that knack of just keeping myself out. It's neccessary for me because I am quite self-aware and so familiar with the moody dark symbols of life. It's a very interesting aspect, I like it. I subscribe to the desire or love of endurance spots or pushing limits too. Fun fact : I also feel as threatened as people who feel threatened by my presence. It's a interesting conundrum cause I am really easy going after but yeah survival themes really going almost every day.
I don't know if this aspect is magnetic or if it's another aspect but I am aware of that energy in relationships. My usual life routine is watching someone attracted disengage after they can't get through.
Thanks for the post, it made me think about these things and more :)

yuriv 01-07-2019 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuriv (Post 940350)
It's a well written post. I think I can understand where you are coming from albeit I don't agree with it all. Recently my siblings mentioned how much I have changed and even going as far as to say they miss when I was more quiet and was quite a mystery to them. Reason being that I am more goofy now and these days they just want me to shut up. The way i work with intimacy is such that it's really hard to really figure me out. This is because I am still figuring myself out. I am like my own psychologist.I seem to have that knack of just keeping myself out. It's neccessary for me because I am quite self-aware and so familiar with the moody dark symbols of life. It's a very interesting aspect, I like it. I subscribe to the desire or love of endurance spots or pushing limits too. Fun fact : I also feel as threatened as people who feel threatened by my presence. It's a interesting conundrum cause I am really easy going after but yeah survival themes really going almost every day.
I don't know if this aspect is magnetic or if it's another aspect but I am aware of that energy in relationships. My usual life routine is watching someone attracted disengage after they can't get through.
Thanks for the post, it made me think about these things and more :)

Maybe the relationship part is an attribute of my venus-pluto.

Witchyone 01-07-2019 03:20 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
I have Mars sextile Pluto. That's supposed to make me very forceful, but I don't feel that way unless I'm very angry. It's also supposed to make me good at investigation and sensing what's up with people. I suppose that is true, but I "sense" so much the only way I can cope is to ignore most of the noise so I don't become paranoid.

I also have Sun trine Uranus and Moon trine Uranus (loosely), and Neptune square moon and Neptune trine Mars. I bet I'd give you the heebiejeebies. :lol:
I have a splash chart with lots of aspects, so it's harder than usual to decide which aspects might cause which traits and occurrences.

Domna 01-07-2019 08:19 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
I have various tight aspects to both Neptune and Pluto from Moon, Mars and Mercury. Furthermore, Neptune is conjunct IC and tightly square Ascendant.

Mars is trine Pluto.

While I'm certainly eccentric in many ways I'd still say that I'm the opposite of volatile. Maybe the trine is a mitigating factor, or maybe I just have too much Libra, Taurus and Cancer in my chart to be very explosive... In any case, I am a very grounded, even-tempered, lazy/passive, and rather too fond of status quo.

BaoSanniang 01-08-2019 04:21 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
I appreciate these insightful and well-thought out responses, though I need more time to fully digest the information. I think the general theme with people who have outer planets in aspect to their natal planets and have quite a few of these aspects tend to feel that unseen and universal forces put them into circumstances beyond their control or consciousness. In terms of Mars-Pluto, especially the negative aspects where both planets are close to each other, perhaps the native will feel quite strongly that wherever they go they just seem to attract explosive and potentially dangerous (whether physically, mentally, or emotionally, or all) situations into their life. Over time, it leads to a kind of conditioning that can lead to the native seeing the worst / the dark side of humanity (Pluto is a generational / impersonal planet) and hone a very strong, even ruthless survival instinct. It's like living on the tip of a spear and feeling like the sharp blade might stab and puncture you, whether physically / metaphorically or both.

As for my experience with Outer Planet People, I think in many ways I also don't quite fit society's standards even though I am an IPP / NPP (Inner / Natal Planet Person). I don't know if it's because water signs in general tend to be incompatible in many ways with modern / mainstream society, especially if they're people who show very typical Cancer / Scorpio / Pisces traits. I like to share my feelings and discuss deeper things, yet I feel so much of the modern world is about numbing your feelings and just plowing through. I really admire the writers, philosophers, astrologers etc. of the past, and today I felt a sense of sadness because modern society seems to be all about money and "success." People either don't dwell, or are conditioned into not dwelling in their feelings too much because they're told to just keep moving forward. I don't handle the complexities of modern life well, and things such as social networking disgust me to the core because it's **** superficial.

On the other hand, the Cancer / Capricorn and the Saturn in me gives me many needs that align with convention. I want to get married and have kids, and I know I don't have any grand plan or ambition. I'm a family man at heart but coming from a background of emotional abuse and manipulation (OK, I'll now tell the truth, that "relative" of mine with Mars-Pluto opposition is my mom) and having divorced parents (my dad's chart is predominantly earth-Taurus Sun, Moon, Venus, Aries Mercury, Mars in Virgo, but he has multiple Uranus, Neptune, and 1-2 Pluto aspects to his natal planets) makes me long for a home and a sense of security even more strongly. I try to put up a wall by seeming happy-go-lucky (Sagittarius ascendant) and being intellectual (Aquarius moon), but deep down there's this sense of loss and longing for security and finding a home in both a person and a place. I keep trying to tell myself that whatever's happened has happened, but do you know how ******* (excuse my language) ENVIOUS I am when I see people who have happy families that they can actually bond with, who really care about them and give a ****?

I know I can never be truly "Uranian" or "Neptunian" and be "in-tune" with the collective consciousness and truly forget about the "self" because there's always a point where Saturn pulls me back, and being a Cancer I'm looking for home, for roots. I can pretend I'm intellectual, but I'm a pseudo-intellectual at best. I don't actually like heavy mental activity. I can try to be Neptunian / Piscean and have religious or spiritual inclinations, I've experimented with religion but found it's not "me" / for me. For me the angular houses 1, 4, and 7 are stressed (no 10, 10th house is completely empty), I feel like my sense of purpose is small, yet significant. It is to re-define, and to establish new patterns and a new order with regards to self, to family, and to marriage and committed relationships, to end the cycle of abuse I've been subjected to and create new and true roots for myself and for my children (when I have them). The sacrifice I have to make, and what I have to accept is that I'll never be able to truly bond with my family of origin because they're of a fundamentally incompatible energy.

I'm definitely more a Water / Earth person, I don't feel that "fire" in me compared to fire signs and I'm not truly air because I realize what really guides me are emotions and I have a very hard time dealing with people who give logical and detached responses. I tend to drown myself in pity, and sometimes I can "feel" the energy a person emanates without really telling you why. Sometimes it gets to the point where I feel physical discomfort when I'm around someone I don't like. Mars-Pluto represents a dark, scheming, and unpredictable energy that is mutually destructive for both the person who has the energy (and doesn't know how to wield it) and those being exposed to the energy. Sometimes very graphic videos give me physical discomfort, it's like I can feel some of the pain, albeit just a bit of it.

I have a very indirect approach to many things, and I can get so attached so quickly that I don't even know what I'm really doing. I tend to be sympathetic, sometimes a bit too much that I overextend myself, yet I can also be very cautious and overly so. I tend to care a bit too much and assume a position of service / submissiveness by default. It's not easy for me as I am always looking to serve, even to sacrifice. Not an expressive guy, I do more than I say but I'm definitely more "Mr. Nice Guy" than not.

You know what I believe the world needs more than anything else? Simplicity and more honesty. People need to be more in tune with feelings, with simple comforts. People need to be honest about how they truly feel and to know it's OK to be in touch with their emotional side. If they hate something, to hell with it. Stop holding it back and pretending everything's OK. I feel like the whole world functions on suppression, on masks and assumed identities if you know what I mean. However, I also feel conflicted as I say this because..... I guess part of me is still conventional, and how many of us can truly be brave enough to reveal ourselves 100%, at all times?

I feel a need to care, to bond, to nurture, not in a "Neptunian" or "Plutonian" way where two merge with each other to become one (as much as I wish I could), but in a more down-to-earth way. Along with this need to care, bond, and nurture is a resistance to change. I want to be appreciated for what I do, but I don't appreciate it when people want to change me into someone I'm not and use rules, dogma, or external pressure. I tend to be attracted to people who want my presence in their life and who don't want want to change me fundamentally, but are more worldly wise, more able to cope with life, and perhaps encourage me to take some risks I normally wouldn't. I'd likely feel secure with a person like that though it still takes time for me to truly open up.

I don't want this reply to start sounding too much like a monologue, so I'll get back to the topic. There's something about the planetary energy of each of the outer planets that unsettles me, yet I find them curious. Uranus can be so innovative and unconventional that it disturbs my need for predictability and consistency. Neptune has so much love and compassion for all, yet I can't help but feel that it means a lack of compassion and warmth on a personal level. I firmly believe one should care for their own house, that the building blocks of a society should be intimate relationships, especially couples and the nuclear family unit. Pluto is about sex, death, power, survival, and transformation. Anything related to power and manipulation makes me extremely nervous. I admit there are times where I've been subtly manipulative of other people (especially a few years ago when I was emotionally much less stable than I am now), but my manipulation was for the sake of reassurance or a not-so-complex need for security, but Pluto is power and manipulation with the intent of utter destruction and transformation that can get very dark. Put Mars in the mix and you have a midnight inferno. Those of you with one of the Mars-Pluto aspects that have posted in this thread, IMO, are at a point where you're aware of how this energy affects you and those around you, but I think 99% don't and bring much suffering to both themselves and to others.

With regards to Outer Planet People, part of me is very fascinated by these trans-personal energies because they represent something greater such as possibilities, while the inner or natal planets all represent definitions and limits in one way or another. Part of me wishes I could be more in-tune with these trans-personal energies, yet part of me wants to inject a sense of "gravity" and routine into the lives of these people that I often do because I genuinely want to care about them and worry about them. It's a love-hate relationship. Not sure if this is related to OPPs, but sometimes there are individuals whom I really feel a sense of caring and responsibility towards, it's like I worry about some things in their life more than themselves do.

These people often tend to be women whom I feel a motherly / sisterly attachment to. They often aren't much, much older than me, but if I know they're struggling in some way it just heightens my desire to care for them and play a nurturing role in their life. If they're also caring towards me, as times goes on I feel a strong physical, mental, and emotional attachment that could lead to love. I just want to be there for them, I don't care if I'm not playing a traditionally masculine role, I'm a straight guy but subconsciously sometimes I feel like it's two women bonding with each other. I like being looked after, and I also feel a need to nurture and to serve but it's almost always in a more feminine way. I'm more likely to picture myself washing a woman's feet, to make sure she is fed and nourished at the end of a day (just for two examples) rather than picturing myself as the guy who goes out and makes a lot of money to buy a house and gadgets. When I'm around guys who talk a lot about patriarchal, very "man" stuff I tend to fall silent and withdraw because I know that's not who I am. I don't see what's wrong with raising children, in essence, by two mothers except one is a mother disguised as a dad. Don't like being dead weight in a relationship, I feel the need to contribute but I get uncomfortable when I'm forced / pressured to do it in a way that requires lots of exposure to different kinds of politics.

Not sure how many of you realize this but Pluto's essence is, in many ways, a very masculine one with themes that have, throughout much of history, been associated with men. It's definitely the most "worldly" out of the impersonal planets if you really think about some of the things it governs. A lot of it is Scorpio energy (and often the negative attributes), but the planetary energy by itself. I mean, it's so far from the luminaries and shrouded in secrecy. We don't know that much about it.

BaoSanniang 01-08-2019 04:49 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Domna (Post 940446)
I have various tight aspects to both Neptune and Pluto from Moon, Mars and Mercury. Furthermore, Neptune is conjunct IC and tightly square Ascendant.

Mars is trine Pluto.

While I'm certainly eccentric in many ways I'd still say that I'm the opposite of volatile. Maybe the trine is a mitigating factor, or maybe I just have too much Libra, Taurus and Cancer in my chart to be very explosive... In any case, I am a very grounded, even-tempered, lazy/passive, and rather too fond of status quo.

Eh yeah like I've said I believe the harmonious aspects between Mars and Pluto and other mitigating factors make the energy more controlled and less detrimental. I'm pretty much the same as you. Mostly grounded, even-tempered, lazy / passive, and fond of the status quo despite fantasizing a lot. I believe when the two planets aren't close enough to each other, there's that bit of energy that can manifest itself but you won't feel like it takes over you. When the two planets are tightly aspecting each other, especially the challenging aspects, I would assume a lot of times you can't help but feel like it conditions you strongly to think and feel in a certain way, to make assumptions that may even be baseless, and to feel like you can't help but attract strife wherever you go, or you're even consciously / subconsciously creating tension and strife in your life to keep you going, to have a sense of the very fact that you exist. Of course, I could be wrong.

Domna 01-08-2019 09:45 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BaoSanniang (Post 940548)
Eh yeah like I've said I believe the harmonious aspects between Mars and Pluto and other mitigating factors make the energy more controlled and less detrimental. I'm pretty much the same as you. Mostly grounded, even-tempered, lazy / passive, and fond of the status quo despite fantasizing a lot. I believe when the two planets aren't close enough to each other, there's that bit of energy that can manifest itself but you won't feel like it takes over you. When the two planets are tightly aspecting each other, especially the challenging aspects, I would assume a lot of times you can't help but feel like it conditions you strongly to think and feel in a certain way, to make assumptions that may even be baseless, and to feel like you can't help but attract strife wherever you go, or you're even consciously / subconsciously creating tension and strife in your life to keep you going, to have a sense of the very fact that you exist. Of course, I could be wrong.

Strife is something I've generally succeded in keeping as far away from myself as possible... Most of the time I feel like I attract the opposite consciously as well as unconsciously. But, as you say, while my trine is tight, it's still a trine and more tame in nature. My Pluto is in its home in Scorpio but it makes no major challenging aspects at all so overall it's a more benevolent force in my chart.

BaoSanniang 01-09-2019 04:22 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Domna (Post 940569)
Strife is something I've generally succeded in keeping as far away from myself as possible... Most of the time I feel like I attract the opposite consciously as well as unconsciously. But, as you say, while my trine is tight, it's still a trine and more tame in nature. My Pluto is in its home in Scorpio but it makes no major challenging aspects at all so overall it's a more benevolent force in my chart.

I believe if Pluto's in Scorpio or if the native's a Scorpio, the Pluto energy would be at least somewhat easier to handle. I have a friend who's Sun Conjunct Pluto in Scorpio, he definitely has very intense feelings and a high sex drive but he's overall a well-balanced person because with Scorpio as his sun sign I feel he knows how to channel and control that energy. Don't think the other two water signs come anywhere close to harnessing Pluto energy.

Domna 01-09-2019 09:50 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BaoSanniang (Post 940750)
I believe if Pluto's in Scorpio or if the native's a Scorpio, the Pluto energy would be at least somewhat easier to handle. I have a friend who's Sun Conjunct Pluto in Scorpio, he definitely has very intense feelings and a high sex drive but he's overall a well-balanced person because with Scorpio as his sun sign I feel he knows how to channel and control that energy. Don't think the other two water signs come anywhere close to harnessing Pluto energy.

That makes sense.

It might be worth noting now, since you mentioned sex drive, that I'm completely asexual. I have an extremely low sex drive and have never felt sexual attraction. I have several placements and aspects in my chart that would seem to indicate a high sex drive (aforementioned Mars-Pluto, 8th house Venus etc), but no...

Dlove2198 03-18-2019 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domna (Post 940799)
That makes sense.

It might be worth noting now, since you mentioned sex drive, that I'm completely asexual. I have an extremely low sex drive and have never felt sexual attraction. I have several placements and aspects in my chart that would seem to indicate a high sex drive (aforementioned Mars-Pluto, 8th house Venus etc), but no...

It's your 8th house Venus, plus u probably have an easy aspect between Mars and pluto

RedGarnet 03-24-2019 04:48 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
When doing readings I try not to generalize too much about a particualr aspect however there those that sort of jump out at me, namely Mars to Pluto is certainly one. Hard aspect of Mars to Pluto generally point to a person with a temper, however, many athletes have this aspect configuration which is an excellent way to work with it. Everyone has Pluto either in Leo or Virgo, so any mutable or fixed Mars within orb will negatively aspect Pluto. That's a lot of people. Also, one has to consider where they are placed. Mars/Pluto in the 4th or 12th house usually means someone who was abused in childhood. Mars in the 12th - goes with the old saying, children should be seen and not heard. It can also point to affairs as can Venus in the 12th. Sun Uranus aspect, yes a little eccentric and usually tall. Harsh aspect between Sun and Pluto typically points to someone who can be a bully and tremendous willpower. Moon in harsh aspect with Mars, problems with the mother and you will likely be a little temperamental. Sun to Neptune, usually gives people a lot of charisma. Moon to Pluto in positive aspect, this is a very deep feeling person. Moon in Harsh aspect to Pluto, someone who can be a little emotionally manipulative - like playing the victim. There can me a need for payback. Moon in harsh aspect to Uranus, my observation many of these people have bipolar. Mars in harsh aspect to Saturn, people who are workaholics/hard workers. Also can be hot and cold sexually. Venus to Saturn in harsh aspect, they are always the ones who love the other person more. They never get there emotional needs met. They can be cheap too. Mars in harsh aspect to Uranus, they can be erratic and a little vindictive similar to Mars to Pluto although Mars to Pluto in more of a deep and dark seething anger whereas Mars to Uranus is explosive then they move on. Mars in harsh aspect to Neptune, they can be cheaters and liars. They have a lot of charisma too.
*I should qualify, the above situations have been my own experience from doing astrology for over 25 years. They are in no way to insult anyone. Again, one has to look at the chart in it's entirety.
PS. I didn't read through all the replies so please excuse and redundancy.

Chrysalis 03-24-2019 04:58 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quoted from Redgarnet "Sun Uranus aspect, yest a little eccentric and usually tall."

My bf has this aspect in scorpio (3 degree orb) they're conjunct, and yes he's tall and yes eccentric, he's 6ft something, he's a foot taller than me.

Ive got mars/pluto/venus conjunction in libra, but the mars/pluto doesn't make me aggressive, its given me willpower more than anything.

RedGarnet 03-24-2019 05:14 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 959656)
"Sun Uranus aspect, yest a little eccentric and usually tall."

My bf has this aspect in scorpio (3 degree orb) they're conjunct, and yes he's tall and yes eccentric, he's 6ft something, he's a foot taller than me.

Ive got mars/pluto/venus conjunction in libra, but the mars/pluto doesn't make me aggressive, its given me willpower more than anything.

I meant to add the sign placement makes a difference too. Since Venus is strong in it's own sign and Mars is weakend in the opposite sign of Libra, it softens the mars pluto aggressive nature which is the nice willpower you spoke of. That's why it's important to look at the entire chart. Does this conjunction have other positive aspects?

Chrysalis 03-24-2019 05:24 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RedGarnet (Post 959658)
Does this conjunction have other positive aspects?

Yes they also sextile neptune and mercury.

Saggie87RN 03-28-2019 03:46 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
I have Mars conjunct Pluto in Scorpio in my natal chart... Feel free to ask questions. Lol

Cary2 03-31-2019 03:52 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
"Potentially dangerous" could be said about any malefic, but here they are. They are in every chart. It is important to avoid seeing Mars/Pluto as some kind of stain or pathology.

No doubt about it, there is danger in the aspect, and the native who sports such an aspect rather likes danger in some way. This pair shows up in many murders and in many cases of revenge.

The Mars/Pluto square is very common in champions. Mohammed Ali, Bruce Lee, and many hard-hitting football players.

The person will display a power or a prowess of some kind. The important thing is to avoid trifling with them. They really hate that. Don't tease them because you are curious about their bad temper. Unh-unh. Especially avoid your passive-aggressive games. They know that you are really being aggressive, but you don't have the honesty or courage to commit to it in an open way. If you are aggressive, then they think you are fair game. They get to the bottom of things rather quickly.

Saggie87RN 03-31-2019 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saggie87RN (Post 960626)
I have Mars conjunct Pluto in Scorpio in my natal chart... Feel free to ask questions. Lol

I was unable to offer a more in-depth answer at the time, because I was busy. Issues revolving around power, authority, and intensity has been a dominant theme in my life. People usually have very strong reactions to me. If I really want something, Iím going to obtain. It has (this aspect) given me incredible willpower at times and obsessive tendencies. I donít surrender easily and can hold grudges. I can be extremely strategic. I possess these traits even with a stellium in Sagittarius (sun, Saturn, Uranus, and possibly Mercury). While Sagittarius has a tendency to have ďfoot-in-mouth disease,Ē that is not always the case when Sag Suns have this aspect. The ability to hurt people with our words might be, how should I say, quite intentional. I recommend people with this aspect to not internalize your feelings and find positive physical activities to engage in. A interesting note: me, my brother (mars conjunct Pluto in Scorpio), and my mother (Mars conjunct Pluto in Virgo) all have this aspect! Funny huh?

david starling 03-31-2019 07:29 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Saggie87RN (Post 961265)
I was unable to offer a more in-depth answer at the time, because I was busy. Issues revolving around power, authority, and intensity has been a dominant theme in my life. People usually have very strong reactions to me. If I really want something, Iím going to obtain. It has (this aspect) given me incredible willpower at times and obsessive tendencies. I donít surrender easily and can hold grudges. I can be extremely strategic. I possess these traits even with a stellium in Sagittarius (sun, Saturn, Uranus, and possibly Mercury). While Sagittarius has a tendency to have ďfoot-in-mouth disease,Ē that is not always the case when Sag Suns have this aspect. The ability to hurt people with our words might be, how should I say, quite intentional. I recommend people with this aspect to not internalize your feelings and find positive physical activities to engage in. A interesting note: me, my brother (mars conjunct Pluto in Scorpio), and my mother (Mars conjunct Pluto in Virgo) all have this aspect! Funny huh?

Do you hide your interest in astrology to avoid criticism by skeptics?

Saggie87RN 03-31-2019 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by david starling (Post 961282)
Do you hide your interest in astrology to avoid criticism by skeptics?

Good question. No, I do not hide my interest in astrology. Also, let me add that I am a good hearted person that likes people. Lol. Also, there there can be positives to the Mars-Pluto aspects such as great willpower, determination, discipline, and the ability to overcome great obstacles just to name a few. The power of Mars-Pluto energy can be harnessed for good.

cindah 03-31-2019 11:02 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Interesting post on the Mars/Pluto aspect. When I saw this in my son's chart, it terrified me at first sight...in the 4th house 4 degress apart and the south node right on Pluto (and this is all in Scorpio). It still scares me but I think the effect of this on him is extreme endurance. He works hard, he works out. He will be 34 in December (a stellum in Sag that includes his sun). Now he's going through a bad divorce with a soon to be 3-yr old. Pluto is transiting through his 7th and boy did he step in it...deep and he's suffering now but I think he will come out good b/cause he loves his little girl and makes sure hes in her life.


He's a really honest and great person...I think all that sagg helps.


What makes it more interesting is that I have the Mars/Pluto opp ... 8 degrees approaching Pluto (M-12/P-6) and his father has this opposition as well...only 1 degree apart (P-2/M-8).



Also, and I have to mention this...I noticed some of my ancestors has Pluto/Mars connections...some were oppositions, some were conjunctions but I need to verify and look into this. I want to use this in a positive way.

Somna7H 04-01-2019 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saggie87RN (Post 961315)
Mars-Pluto aspects such as great willpower

What is Max Orb you consider for above quality ?

Saggie87RN 04-01-2019 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Somna7H (Post 961397)
What is Max Orb you consider for above quality ?

To be honest, I donít know anything about orbs. I was speaking about the general and potential positive traits of this aspect.

Lykanized 04-01-2019 02:06 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cindah (Post 961336)
Interesting post on the Mars/Pluto aspect. When I saw this in my son's chart, it terrified me at first sight...in the 4th house 4 degress apart and the south node right on Pluto (and this is all in Scorpio). It still scares me but I think the effect of this on him is extreme endurance. He works hard, he works out. He will be 34 in December (a stellum in Sag that includes his sun). Now he's going through a bad divorce with a soon to be 3-yr old. Pluto is transiting through his 7th and boy did he step in it...deep and he's suffering now but I think he will come out good b/cause he loves his little girl and makes sure hes in her life.




He's a really honest and great person...I think all that sagg helps.




What makes it more interesting is that I have the Mars/Pluto opp ... 8 degrees approaching Pluto (M-12/P-6) and his father has this opposition as well...only 1 degree apart (P-2/M-8).



Also, and I have to mention this...I noticed some of my ancestors has Pluto/Mars connections...some were oppositions, some were conjunctions but I need to verify and look into this. I want to use this in a positive way.

I think it's more destructive to look at anyone's chart(but probably especially our childrens') and think they're gonna be a certain way because of those charts. I think we'll find greater truths if we explore them as people and instead come to understand various aspects of their charts through understanding them which may result in even drastic reframe. But I do understand... I mean certainly we can potentially use our childrens' charts to help us gain some insight into how to raise them and what to look out for

But I want to give you a positive case study even tho I know your son is much older now. Maybe this can help some others

I think anything related to Pluto and Scorpio tends to be blown all the way out of proportion to where it's not even rooted in truth anymore. It happens for a variety of reasons, but I'll focus on the positive case study instead

My sister has this square along with being very Scorpionic(5 planets in her 10th house in Scorpio, 6 counting her north node) and she's one of the most peaceful and loving people I know to the point these are defining traits of hers. She's not even notably sexual. She doesn't have a horrible temper either. She's very moody, but that's about it. She feels bad when people receive her moodiness as hatred. She's not dark and twisted with any potential at all for abusiveness or manipulation. In fact, she has such a developed and firm ethical system.. I actually think she might be the most ethically driven person I've ever known even aside her being such a genuinely loving, patient, and understanding individual

Her Pluto is also on an angle(10th house) and her Mars very very close to the 8th house(2 degrees away, but in the 7th)

I think that endurance thing is probably gonna be more of a defining characteristic of this aspect than any of the horrifying stereotype ********. My sister's like that as well. The fixed-water comes in and makes these people adaptable and moldable like water, but stubborn as all hell. Nothing can stop these people unless they want it to. And it doesn't necessarily manifest as this fiery, destructive, ruthless energy that will devour anyone in its path like the stereotypes would have us think. It's much slower and more Earthy given that this endurance stems from the fixed nature. It even seems to me to be strangely peaceful. I imagine it like a stream of water flowing across the land and it's not fast nor does it find itself flowing into the rapids. It just flows and flows. And when it approaches a dam, it will follow the process of breaking the dam in its own time, not through exorbitant force or impatience, but a kind of patience that is unbreakable in itself

It's steady and even when in despair, I think these natives might tend to hold that suffering in which can result in suppression which is something I think CAN be destructive if not taken care of
I do have a Mars-Pluto aspect myself, but it's just a milquetoast sextile lmfao



I can see that honesty in my sister too. It's a kind of honesty that can take others by surprise, but it's not driven by illwill, simply the value of honesty and truth. Not to say that I don't think there's potential for unhealthy individuals to be manipulative, but people just tend to blow the destructive traits completely out of proportion where Pluto and Scorpio are concerned


I find that note about the aspect running in your family extremely intriguing. I don't know why it is, but it really seems to me like signs, planetary influence, and aspects can run in families. Mine happens to be extremely Scorpionic. I also looked at my late grandpa's chart and he had the same exact Venus and Mars as mine
I'd love to do an in depth study of this
On a spiritual level, I feel like themes run in families, karmic lessons, but the fact that this can possibly be seen on an astrological level is just..WOW!!


Anyway, I want to add that I'm sending my love to your son. As you've observed, there's this incredible endurance with this aspect. My sister's been through a lot of tough **** in her life and she just keeps pushing and pushing. Nothing gets her down for too long and your son's probably the same way. I think Pluto is imbued with the wisdom to understand why things happen or to at least come to understand it...to understand how to use what's happened to grow and to not let these things hold it back
-So just..I'm sending my love to your son that he finds the meaning in what's happened to him , the 'reason' why it happened and how it's not gonna keep him down

Somna7H 04-02-2019 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saggie87RN (Post 961434)
To be honest, I donít know anything about orbs. I was speaking about the general and potential positive traits of this aspect.

Thanks!
To be honest but I don't feel any Will Power. Orb under 3į in my case.

david starling 04-02-2019 04:37 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
I attribute willpower to Saturn. Pluto's more "other-worldly" [IMO].

Somna7H 04-02-2019 11:50 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Forget to mention I have Exalted Saturn Conjunct Mars Conjunct Pluto in Libra 5th/6th House.

david starling 04-02-2019 04:34 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Okay, I see I was looking at Saturn from my own viewpoint. I have it in Leo, all by itself.
Must be hard balancing those 3 out!

conspiracy theorist 04-02-2019 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cary2 (Post 961232)
"Potentially dangerous" could be said about any malefic, but here they are. They are in every chart. It is important to avoid seeing Mars/Pluto as some kind of stain or pathology.

No doubt about it, there is danger in the aspect, and the native who sports such an aspect rather likes danger in some way. This pair shows up in many murders and in many cases of revenge.

The Mars/Pluto square is very common in champions. Mohammed Ali, Bruce Lee, and many hard-hitting football players.

The person will display a power or a prowess of some kind. The important thing is to avoid trifling with them. They really hate that. Don't tease them because you are curious about their bad temper. Unh-unh. Especially avoid your passive-aggressive games. They know that you are really being aggressive, but you don't have the honesty or courage to commit to it in an open way. If you are aggressive, then they think you are fair game. They get to the bottom of things rather quickly.

In your opinion, what would a Mars that is influenced by the three outers look like?

Cary2 04-02-2019 07:22 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Those are the instances when Mars is at his worst. Mars is the lesser malefic and really does not cause much trouble until he is aspect to one of the three outer planets. Mars with Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto is at his most dangerous.

david starling 04-02-2019 07:40 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cary2 (Post 961793)
Those are the instances when Mars is at his worst. Mars is the lesser malefic and really does not cause much trouble until he is aspect to one of the three outer planets. Mars with Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto is at his most dangerous.

Any opinion about Yods, as important Aspects?

conspiracy theorist 04-02-2019 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cary2 (Post 961793)
Those are the instances when Mars is at his worst. Mars is the lesser malefic and really does not cause much trouble until he is aspect to one of the three outer planets. Mars with Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto is at his most dangerous.

Do you have concrete examples in mind or in your files?

Somna7H 04-03-2019 01:31 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by david starling (Post 961745)
Okay, I see I was looking at Saturn from my own viewpoint. I have it in Leo, all by itself.
Must be hard balancing those 3 out!

Yes very hard.
According to Western Astrology POV if I able to overcome/balance this then I will become one of the toughest Soul. :D

Cary2 04-03-2019 02:18 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
CP,

I'm sorry; you'll have to find them on your own.

conspiracy theorist 04-03-2019 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cary2 (Post 961864)
CP,

I'm sorry; you'll have to find them on your own.

It's no trouble. I like to pick the brains of experienced practitioners and I appreciate any response I can get from them.

There's a personal component, since I have Ur/Pl=Ma and Ne/Pl= Ma in my chart, and I wanted to compare with people you might have happened to know. I'll take up the investigation independently.

david starling 04-03-2019 05:10 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Cary, what's your take on Yods--meaningful or not important? I mean, do you consider them significant?

ForestFairy 04-03-2019 11:16 AM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
I do have pluto square mars.
And have lived with a feeling of being 'bad' person, especially when i don't feel well people seem to feel it.

I also have venus moon and mercury at my MC. When i just feel good, people approach me very lovingly.

This contrast made me isolate myself, to hide from people, because i don't want to have bad influence.

Cary2 04-03-2019 02:46 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist (Post 961873)
It's no trouble. I like to pick the brains of experienced practitioners and I appreciate any response I can get from them.

There's a personal component, since I have Ur/Pl=Ma and Ne/Pl= Ma in my chart, and I wanted to compare with people you might have happened to know. I'll take up the investigation independently.

I'm sorry; speculation like that out of context is something I try to avoid. Orbs are so important. The rest of the chart is so important.

I said earlier that angular Pluto and Moon/Mars are often found in charts of bullies, but it is the height of folly to say that everyone with with such aspects is a bully. Forums are full acrimonious disputes because hostile people love to jump to such conclusions. They are looking for something in one of your statements to use against you with the most dishonest motives imaginable.

I know of a seasoned astrologer with an exalted sense of self-importance who condemned Robert Pellitier and his fine book "Planets in Aspect" because he said something unflattering about an aspect in her chart. She probably persecuted me because I unknowingly did something similar. I swear, you find little else in a forum, and you enter at your own risk.

When you go to a forum, you are in the presence of many people like that, and the fact that they identify as astrologers does not matter. Its just one of the many claims they will make that you should reconsider often.

That is why you might see me withdraw from certain things.

Cary2 04-03-2019 03:08 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by david starling (Post 961886)
Cary, what's your take on Yods--meaningful or not important? I mean, do you consider them significant?

Of course that is something that changes from astrologer to astrologer, and astrologers like to defend their pet doctrines.

My opinion is that aspects are harmonics, and there are no minor aspects, except the more "minor" the aspect, the less the orb allowed. Minor aspects near to exact can dominate a chart if most aspects have a wide orb.

I use the quincunx because it belongs to the Twelfth Harmonic, but since 12 is much removed from 1, it deserves only a small orb. A quincunx is usually not very strong if the orb is greater than one-degree, but it is not insignificant if the orb is less than two degrees. If there is a significant aspect to the midpoint of a quincunx, that is a justification for allowing a much wider orb for the quincunx.

Some astrologers attribute the quincunx to death and dying because the angle between 0-deg Scorpio and 0-deg Aries, the zodiac inception, is 150-deg. I do not. I find such reasoning spurious. Some people attribute sickness to the quincunx because 0-deg Virgo is 150-deg from the 0-deg Aries point. I don't use that reasoning, but sickness is often involved because the quincunx usually signifies strain, so does the semi-sextile. This I base on harmonic research. Strain is a good keyword for the quincunx.

I think "mildly beneficial" is a bad interpretation of the semi-sextile.

david starling 04-03-2019 04:46 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
What about out-of-sign Aspects?

Cary2 04-03-2019 04:48 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
I don't understand that question.

david starling 04-03-2019 05:35 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cary2 (Post 961984)
I don't understand that question.

Standard-modern is strict about a Trine, even one with a geometrically tight , 2 or 3 degree Orb, being within Signs of the same Element. I read that the ancient astrologers were less strict about it.
This applies to placements in the 1-2 degree part of one Sign, and the 28-29 degree part of another.

david starling 04-03-2019 08:05 PM

Re: Mars-Pluto: A potentially dangerous aspect in someone's natal chart
 
Cary, as far as you know, did Kepler abandon the Signs, with their Modalities and Elements, and go with Aspects only?


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