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spacecadet 02-16-2008 01:31 AM

Venus square Saturn
hi I have just joined this site and have spent the evening avidly reading through many of the wonderful threads on the site. I wonder if I could reopen the discussion about Venus square Saturn. After many years of self analysis and healing I have returned to this placement with an awareness that it is at the crux of every problem I have. I am interested to hear how others with this placement have worked through it or transformed its action in their lives.
My Saturn is in Leo 2nd square Venus Scorpio end of 4th (I interpret as 5th).
ultimately my astrological map, my childhood and the life I have since created have held an ongoing theme of lonliness, sadness and that I am never going to be good enough or lovable. In relationships thisbrings out a needy, mistrustful, over defensive streak. There are positive aspects to my self and my life but this underlying theme has devastated my intimate relationships and interferes with my ability to consciously create the life I desire. Neptune is currently squaring my Venus and opposing my Saturn, activating the placement in my awareness but also confusing me. I know this issue is about self worth but I was raised within a family that was disfunctional, touch was near enough banned, i was a lonely only child, dad left one day and never heard from him again, i never felt loved and the message I got was 'do better'. The message i took from all this wss 'i'm not good enough'. If i have never perceived that i am truly loved (lovable) how can I ever truly know what it is to love myself? I thought I did love myself but my previous relationships have shown me that I'm still amillion miles of target. My esteem crashes in a relationship because i dont belive they love me. I compare myself to everyone around and feel inferior next to them, then i mistrust him thinking he is after every other woman. Its so unhealthy I know but there seems to be nothing I can do about it save taking my boyfriend to an island uninhabited by other women!!
This isn't a 'therapy' website but I would really appreciate hearing positive ways of coping with this extremly difficult aspect. How many of you are in loving healthy relationships? If you felt like this before, what did you do to improve your selfesteem? (PLs excuse any poor readability as I have typed this MSG on my phone and can't see what I'm writing!)

sallyd 02-16-2008 02:08 AM

Re: Venus square Saturn
Some old philosopher said 'the stars incline, they do not compel' or some such thing....

You make your own life - irrespective of astrology - don't look at your star chart (or indeed your upbringing) to set the course of your future.

Astrology should give you positive guidance, not set limits on you.


spacecadet 02-17-2008 08:29 PM

Re: Venus square Saturn
Venus square saturn along with a couple other aspects which also work on the self-esteem theme) are reflective of a conflict I experience and I am seeking ways to deal with the energies in a healthier way.

Whilst astrology is an incredible way of seeing how our energies are working and for identifying particular issues, it isn't always easy to see objectiively what we can do to bring disharmonious energies into balance because these things operate at such a fundamental level that we may not see or know another way. Whilst time and experience may be the only way of working things out, I like to think that there are things we can do to make the best of these energies. I may be very wrong. Perhaps it is simply about accepting what we are - accepting our shadow.
I was hoping to explore how the aspect (or similar aspects) have manifested in the lives of other people here and it would be great to hear positive stories of people who have come to integrate the energies in a positive way.

Returning to the previous thread which has now been closed on this site, I have quoted below a post from Shining Ray and their quote from Liz Greenes, Saturn a new look at an old devil, because it very much resonates with the experience I have of the aspect.

Re: Venus and Saturn
I have had two partners who both had the Venus/Saturn aspect one had Venus in Aries in opposition to Saturn in Libra. My current partner has Venus in Libra square Saturn in Cancer. I have a minor aspect, I have Venus in Capricorn semi-square Saturn in Virgo on my Asc. The low self worth is present in both of them, they find it difficult to see what is lovable about themselves. Whatever Saturn touches in the chart does take a longer time to grow and develop and for Venus/Saturn sometimes love comes later on in life, it doesn't have to mean death of a partner it can mean a seperation but who hasn't suffered one broken relationship at least.

With Venus/Saturn, it depends on your experiences from a young age, on how the aspect will manifest obviously if you grew up in a very unloving background, by having Venus in aspect to Saturn you will feel very unloved, as their is an expectation from birth that you will be rejected or unwanted. Another child with the same aspect can grow up in a more stable background, who will still have feelings of low self worth but it is not compounded by a completely cold childhood. Aspects are dimensional, and depending on the chart as a whole the experience of this aspect can be felt at different levels. A Water chart person who needs close bonds, and emotional relationships will have more of a difficult time with this aspect, but maybe it helps to ground the emotions and therefore a more cautious, careful, and mature response to love is helpful to a person whose emotions could overwhelm them too much, only the owner of the aspect can describe it from their own experience. As has been said the whole chart needs to be examined, some charts support Venus/Saturn aspects better than others.

Here is Liz Greene's interpretation of the aspect, although I might have posted this before. :rolleyes: Here is again anyway. :)

~ Saturn in aspect to Venus ~

" A New Look At An Old Devil " .. by Liz Greene

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Saturn-A New Look at an Old Devil by Liz Greene -

Saturnian contacts to Venus, when they occur in the charts of those who are not predisposed towards introspection or self-understanding, are some of the most painful contacts to deal with. This is particularly true for the charts of women. In both men's and women's charts one of the traditional interpretations , which seems to be accurate enough, is that of failure or sorrow in marriage and in love with a subsequent residue of disillusionment, bitterness, fear, and a great sensitivity to rejection which colours all successive romantic encounters with a certain aloofness and mistrust.

[copyright/plagiarism. Parts deleted and replaced by link. Moderator.]

Last edited by Shining Ray : 11-04-2007 at 05:15 PM.

Arian Maverick 02-17-2008 09:02 PM

Re: Venus square Saturn
I know this is not the topic of this thread, but what signs are your natal Sun and Ascendants located in?

I ask because I tend to associate issues with self-esteem and self-love to the first house as well as the Sun, and I was wondering if Venus is the ruler of your Ascendant, the dispositor of your Sun, or forms a tight aspect with the Sun.

I too possess the Venus square Saturn aspect natally, and Venus is sandwiched between my natal Sun and Mercury within a degree; my natal Saturn-Neptune conjunction, which also has an orb of slightly more than a degree, squares this triple conjunction, which is located in my first house in Aries. Therefore, I understand the difficulties you have expressed in your first message about not feeling "good enough" or "worthy enough" of another's love and affection, but you must remember that true, healthy love--the kind of love you are seeking--cannot be earned or won, but is freely given. Additionally, one of the main lessons I have learned with this aspect and others related to it is that one must first love oneself before one can possess the ability to love others.

You may have heard of the Law of Attraction, more popularly known as the Secret in the bestselling book, and may already know that the energies you send out into the universe are precisely the energies you will receive. This can be either a joyous or an excruciatingly difficult lesson to learn, yet Saturn is a difficult teacher who is unsympathetic to excuses although he truly has your best intentions at heart. I have read that Saturn cannot affect "you" because "you" are not bound to the physical plane which Saturn rules; however, Saturn certainly can and does damage the mask you have created for yourself, the web of lies you may have been told about yourself throughout your life that you are limited, that this life is the only one that exists, that you are the victim of a cruel and hapless fate. You have the free choice to believe in this if you choose, but I can tell you from experience that this path only leads to sorrow.

It is easy to believe, especially when one possesses difficult aspects between Venus and Saturn, that you can only be fulfilled by the love of another individual. Unfortunately, women in particular have been conditioned in western society to believe in this fantasy, in this lie. The truth is that you do not need anyone and you certainly cannot depend upon anyone but yourself to create your own happiness. Don't misinterpret me here; I am not saying that you should completely forgo relationships and accept that you must live your life alone. This is not true at all, for for all my cynicism I still believe that one can share and receive happiness from another and a healthy relationship has the potential to expound upon the happiness that either one can create alone. However, you must first be in possession of this happiness in order to attract another of like energy, for this is the basis of the Law of Attraction. If you continually wait for another to create happiness for you, you will have a long wait indeed because this is impossible; only you can create your own happiness, although it is possible to create your own happiness in the presence of another while he or she is doing the same. There is a fine line, however, between creating your own happinesses with another and depending upon him or her to create your happiness for you.

As difficult as it is, you must abandon self-pity because it cannot serve you in attaining what you seek. I am not talking down to you or admonishing you; I am not "holier than thou" in my advice because I am still in the process of overcoming pity myself. It's just that I could feel my own energy and consciousness in your words, and I do not want to you experience the path I chose for myself, which sounds quite similar to your own. As others have mentioned here, you are not your natal chart; your natal chart indicates potentials, but it does not demand that you think in behave in a certain matter, although if you do not take conscious direction of your life, you will reenact the energies of your natal chart in your life through your own experiences or that of others. Goodness, I feel like I'm almost embodying the energy of Saturn here; I am not usually so forthright and direct in my posts, although again, the potential exists in my natal chart. Remember, though, that it is possible to transcend the energies of your natal chart through one's will.

Arian Maverick

spacecadet 02-17-2008 10:31 PM

Re: Venus square Saturn
1 Attachment(s)
Thank you Arian. I agree entirely with what you say. I don't mean to sound at all 'self-pitiful'. This is just one aspect of the great walking talking bundle of consciousness that I am! Because I am focusing in on this one issue, for the purposes of discussion it can appear as though that is all I see. However it is only because I have just come out of a relationship which brought all these issues to my awareness that they are at the forefront of my mind. Previously I had been single for some time and so was not really confronted by some of the difficult emotions that can arise. I was in a very good place prior to the relationship, I thought I had made developments in my self-esteem and had, as a result of this, attracted a positive relationship into my life. But as the relationship progressed, my self-esteem gradually declined and next thing I know I'm in a pretty rubbish place and have to start all over again to raise my confidence and faith in myself. It seems this happens in all my relationships and it completely baffles me how quickly I can fall apart! It seems I am better on my own yet I can't eliminate the natural human urge to want someone special to love and to share life with. I don't want to overcompensate or to deny relationships in my life so I need to do something about this awful tendency I have! As Coffee said, there may not be much more that astrology can do here, I may need to explore this issue further with counselling or something.


Originally Posted by Arian Maverick
As others have mentioned here, you are not your natal chart; your natal chart indicates potentials, but it does not demand that you think in behave in a certain matter, although if you do not take conscious direction of your life, you will reenact the energies of your natal chart in your life through your own experiences or that of others.

Can you clarify what you mean by conscious direction please Arian?
Back to your first question, yes the dispositor of my sun is venus. I have attached my chart for your info. ther conributers I would say are my cancer ascendant (which can make me ultra sensitive/defensive sometimes), Pluto conjuunct Sun and mercury and off course transiting neptune (sq venus, opp sat). I would be glad for any input that could help me explore this further.
many thanks

autumnleaf 02-17-2008 10:42 PM

Re: Venus square Saturn
AM, it seems there are several of us with Venus-Saturn H1 aspects here lately. You're helping more of us than you know.

Arian Maverick 02-17-2008 10:42 PM

Re: Venus square Saturn

Can you clarify what you mean by conscious direction please Arian?
Sure thing ;)

I'm not sure if you are familiar with the Abraham teachings, but I was borrowing an idea expressed in several of Abrahams books discussing the Law of Attraction that human beings can create in one of two ways: consciously or subconsciously. I don't want to derail this thread too much with talk about conscious manifestation and such, but what I meant by this statement was that we are all creating all of the time, so it's never a matter of not knowing how. Rather, conscious manifestation is a matter of taking ownership of one's life and steering the ship rather than allowing the ship to steer you, using the metaphor of a ship on the ocean. Of course, you can either steer with or against the current, but this is another discussion.


I have attached my chart for your info. ther conributers I would say are my cancer ascendant (which can make me ultra sensitive/defensive sometimes)
Another amazing thing I have found about the forums and about life in general is how members are often attracted to those members and threads they most resonate with. Again, I don't want to derail this thread too much, but I can relate to the sensitivity of your Cancer Ascendant even though I possess a different Ascendant sign; my natal Moon is in my first house conjunct my Ascendant within four degrees or so.

I will look at your natal chart and see what else it may reveal.


AM, it seems there are several of us with Venus-Saturn H1 aspects here lately. You're helping more of us than you know.
I had submitted this post before I read your reply, and your encouragement has only strengthened my belief that this forum is highly karmic. Thank you, autumnleaf; we all help each other by sharing our personal experiences :)

Arian Maverick

gaer 02-18-2008 01:58 AM

Re: Venus square Saturn
I don't have the square. I have the conjunction, out of sign.

But many of the comments I've seen here could have been things I wrote myself, about myself. I was about 40 or so before I met my wife, so Saturn also delays. This does not mean that if you have the square, you can't find love or you can't find it early or that a long-lasting relationship won't work out. But I do think it's harder, because so much depends on self-confidence, and this is a classic aspect that shows the lack of it.

When I was young, I was an outsider, a misfit, and I truly did not fit in. Other people who have a "maverick" streak don't worry a bit about this, or very little, but I felt it so keenly, it stamped me for decades. People didn't like me. I didn't like myself.

Those two things are directly related, although it is very complicated.

Astrology was a HUGE help in showing me where this was coming from.

Notice Greene talked about what this aspect does in the charts of people who are not introspective. That's where astrology was so important. It allowed me to see what I was projecting, and that has made all the difference in the world.

Now, when most people DO like me, when I can walk into a room full of people and socialize very successfuly, I STILL feel anxiety, although it is much better than it used to be. But I can make an adjustment, remind myself that *I* put out this energy!

I think that any difficult aspect between Venus and Saturnóconjunction, square, opposition, inconjunct, even semi-sextile, touches on the issues raisedóloneliness, a feeling of inferiority, etc.

Of course, one aspect by itself is not enough to draw huge conclusions from. But I think in general difficult Venus/Saturn aspects tend to make us self-critical. It extends far beyond romance/love.


autumnleaf 02-18-2008 09:51 AM

Re: Venus square Saturn
gaer, everything written here I could have written as well. I just never realized the "root" of my problems. Seeing the focus on my 1st and 7th houses has opened my eyes to my issues of self and why I seem to keep choosing men who have Saturn conj one of my personal planets.
No, it doesn't solve anything. I have lots of work to do. We all do. It does give me an idea of where to look and start: inside myself. My fascination with astrology has always been about how accurately it can describe a person and their idiosyncrasies if one knows how to look. That's where all our great astrologers, and budding astrologers here help us on our journey. People like AM sharing their personal stories and experiences with the same or similar issues helps us all realize things can be overcome and, most importantly, that we are not alone or wierd.


Angel of Light 05-25-2008 11:01 PM

Re: Venus square Saturn
I found this thread as I was browsing--personally, as far as Venus/Saturn aspects are concern the natives are really beautiful--really beautiful bone structure and a grace and dignity that is amazing to watch in action. The challenge with Venus/Saturn(especially the square and conjunction) is that these native do not find themselves lovable or beautiful--(I know how it feels I have Venus square Saturn)--so we Venus/Saturn people have to just learn to be comfortable in our skins without worrying too much about what others almost have to have the attitude of if they don't love me so what. ;)

Hey 05-26-2008 02:24 AM

Re: Venus square Saturn
I always say, look at other aspects in your chart to boost you. This doesn't kill everything, and it doesn't confirm that you'll be a cold, loveless woman for the rest of your life. But if you expect that, and you don't reach out to others because you're too busy in defense of yourself, you won't get the love you desperately want. Remember, other people are struggling, too. Focus on comforting them.
Saturn is hard work. Expect it in the love area. Believe me. I have PLENTY of experience myself. Saturn rules me to the bone. You might wish you had those easy trines or sextiles, but they're no struggle. Struggle builds character, and character is fascinating.

Angel of Light 05-26-2008 02:44 AM

Re: Venus square Saturn
Well said Hey!!!

Hey 05-26-2008 02:57 AM

Re: Venus square Saturn
Thank you. Thank you.

autumnleaf 05-27-2008 11:47 AM

Re: Venus square Saturn
I would like to thank both Angel of Light and Hey had to say. Sums it up quite nicely. I personally struggle with being nice and loving to myself and accepting who I am and not worrying so much what others think.
Work on that self-worth because YOU are worth it!!! ;)

Arianedreams 05-28-2008 01:19 AM

Re: Venus square Saturn
SpaceCadet I wish I could give you a big hug. You have almost quoted word for word the kind of things my best friend (who doesn't practise astrology) says, she has this aspect and had struggled with this for years.

She has been in therapy for a long time, been signed off work with clinical depression at one point too but took up painting again which seems to help foster a little happiness. Ofcourse she fights not to let the critical little voice in her head nag about how the painting is perfect enough etc... but from what she tells me she works on ignoring it over and over and focus on joy of creating.

I know it is a zillion times so easy to say but please please don't compare yourself to other people. Smack yourself in the head with a sock or something when you catch yourself doing it!! I am sure you are a lovely person, it is often the sweetest people with tough aspects. Warm thoughts and wishes.

spacecadet 06-02-2008 10:17 PM

Re: Venus square Saturn
Thankyou for that virtual hug Arianedreams. Most of the time this is a background issue that I just get on with (well, it can take me an unreasonable time to get ready to go out on a saturday night etc!! but i can live with it), its only in an intimate relationship that it really bites my head of and I can fall down hard. Until then, I am ok so don't you worry! I will remember your and Angel of Lights words next time I start comparing myself and give myself a good boot in the teeth.

And Hey, I really agree. I read a channelled writing a few weeks ago and they said (not in exact words)...'if you feel that no-one loves you in your life, look at how giving you are with your own love'. This struck a chord in me and I realised that, just as you said, my defenses have restricted my ability to share love and affection openly. I am going to work on being more affectionate whilst still maintaining boundaries.

Arianedreams, I hope your friend finds a way to raise her self esteem. I have to recommend EFT as a tool for dealing with issues of self-esteem - or others too (see if you want more info). I use it extensively and its been an incredible help. Its very easy to learn and apply at home. (I should probably post this somewhere else on the site so that everyone can learn about it.) Ultimately though we all find out own route to healing - but the journey is so much easier when you have others from your tribe who give you that little extra kick or hug when you need it. Thanks all. xx

Astrodawn 06-03-2008 12:06 AM

Re: Venus square Saturn
I have read liz greens saturn/venus with my eyes wide.
She described my childhood and relationship problems with so much accuracy it was like she knew me!

Ive got a t square of

7H saturn square 4H venus square 1H moon

I used to wish i was adopted when i was about 10 because i could have understood why they didnt like me?
I get into relationships with all sorts of waifs and strays and most turn out to be abnormal in some way .... you only have to read my previous posts.
I dont actually feel as though ive ever loved anyone properly and I dont think anyones loved me. ( although I always fall madly in love with new beaus's for about 6 weeks then it just stops) <---if you know what i mean?

A fascinating read on this subject, thanks for explaining my lifes trials in such a readable way :)

think I will have to give up on men, and be an old spinster


Neptune Rising 06-03-2008 12:25 AM

Re: Venus square Saturn

But if you expect that, and you don't reach out to others because you're too busy in defense of yourself, you won't get the love you desperately want. Remember, other people are struggling, too. Focus on comforting them.
Saturn is hard work. Expect it in the love area.
This is so true. I've got Saturn inconjunct Venus, and progressed Saturn exactly inconjunct Venus, I'm trying to get to grips with this lesson. Its true, the media ect protrays an image of an ideal - partner/relationship, and through not accepting that relationships can be hard work and are not fuzzy and romantic, I've had many bitter disapointments in love. Maybe Saturn/Venus shows how to be realistic in love, this is what I'm finding in my early 30s. Reaching out and giving out positivity is so important too, I am doing this more.:)


spacecadet 06-03-2008 09:30 PM

Re: Venus square Saturn
Isn't it amazing how much we can share about just this one aspect, and how deeply it has affected us all. Do we know of anyone with this aspect that isn't affected by it in a such a painful way? It would be interesting to see what makes them respond differently.

astrodawn dont forget Liz's words:
In fine balance to the great unhappiness and isolation which often accompany Venus-Saturn aspects, there is also as great potential for a deep and meaningful and permanent relationship based on complete understanding and on free choice rather than mutual need. The mysteries of union are within the grasp of the person with this contact for although he stands to lose much - and usually must spend a good portion of his life without a companion or without true companionship - he also holds the key to a relationship which is lasting and real.
- so don't give up. The lonliness is all part of the journey.

My Saturn is trine neptune so my feelingas about myself are greatly healed though all things spiritual and creative (meditation, healing etc). Unfortunately though I have a tendency to not keep up my practice until I'm desperate.
Look to the harmonious aspects for the most effective ways to improve your feelings/conflict. Its all there in the chart.

Its not the same as I dont have the moon involved in a Tsquare, but I always wished to get away from my family too. I ranaway from home just before 15 and have stayed away ever since (I'm 31 now). I am much closer to my mum now but I in short I never felt loved at home (though they do off course love me, just their own history prevents them from expressing that in a healthy way). Even before I ranaway from home I hung around with homeless people, punks and strays. I spent many years hanging around with the wrong people, and even still I am learning to discriminate.

As part of that story I also went through the teenage female dellusion that if you share yourself sexually, you will be loved. Off course this only makes everything worse. It's very very important to maintain your boundaries and choose your company carefully -people can sense our low self esteem and take advantage - rather than support and strengthen us - as the right company would do.

Something I heard recently was this: It is a fallacy to think we can receive love from another. We can only share love just as a two fish share the water between them.

Bear this in mind all of you (and myself!) because the more we can nurture the love within our own hearts, and learn to be open with that love (with discrimination!!), the more love we will feel in our lives. Then we may realise that actually we don't need anyone anyway. And then we may open up to relationships based on sharing.. just as Liz said.

emotional sniff sniff x

2stepbay 06-04-2008 06:56 PM

Re: Venus square Saturn
Tough aspect, however Saturn is actually quite helpful. Think of Saturn as you would a "stop sign" or the "bouncer at the door". Saturn says if you comply with the rules, I cooperate with you. Otherwise Saturn makes your life miserable.

Saturn's Leo rules as they relate to Scorpio are pretty simple: "stay out of drama"; channel your life force through physical exercise - "thinking" is not your ally. If you find yourself "over thinking" it's a clear sign there's too much heat in your body systems, and you need to exercise to move it. Follow your bliss/heart, rather than sinking in the realm of family (4th h) family drama.

People with strong developed Scorpio (Moon, Venus) usually struggle with persecution issues from past lives. Again, best way to work with Scorpio is to exercise, plus receive nurturing body care such as massage, bodywork (acupuncture, craniosacral etc.). Opportunity is to manage your body energy so it feeds your heart in a healthy way.

spacecadet 06-04-2008 08:31 PM

Re: Venus square Saturn
wow 2stepbay thats a really interesting interpretation - one that I had never seen previously - though the need for excersize figures strongly in other ways through my 'no earth' chart. I'm definately going to take that on board. The art of astrology really is in seeing beyond the basic keyword interpretations. Thanks.

Astrodawn 06-04-2008 08:33 PM

Re: Venus square Saturn

Originally Posted by 2stepbay
Saturn's Leo rules as they relate to Scorpio are pretty simple: "stay out of drama"; channel your life force through physical exercise - "thinking" is not your ally. If you find yourself "over thinking" it's a clear sign there's too much heat in your body systems, and you need to exercise to move it. Follow your bliss/heart, rather than sinking in the realm of family (4th h) family drama.

Thanks 2step bay
Unfortunatly drama follows me around :(
However its interesting about doing exercise to remove the heat from my system. I am involved with exercise everyday, I am an aerobic instructor and personal trainer...these led to me becoming a fitness lecturer a few years ago!

The only time I have family drama if someone lives with me. I have no real family at all...well I do but I havent spoke to my brother for 8 years and mum or dad for about a year, the reason being that I have to ring or visit them if I want to speak to them, they never come and visit me or call even though they only live 10 minutes away in a car. It doesnt bother me that this happens although what does bother me greatly is im used to being treated like this by them but i get upset they dont bother to see how my son is??? that upsets me a lot, especially as my brother who has children the same age, are constantly being fussed over by my parents.
Last time I decided not to ring them and wait to see how long it would be before they rang was 5 years. (and then I rang them) anyway we're back into a year of no contact. I dont have any other aunties or cousins I truely am on my own, I dont just think I am!

Saying that I do have a female friend who I met about 5 years ago who is the best friend Ive ever had. I feel she is the only person that accepts me unconditionally and she is always there. I am very lucky to have a friend I would trust with my life. Incidentally I met her on an exercise course.

My heart breaks only when I think of my son having no one apart from me. His real dad (another drama at the time) hung himself about a month ago. But he didnt know him and we left him and have had no contact for 10 years.

Anyway im waffling and upsetting myself now I better go


spacecadet 06-04-2008 08:53 PM

Re: Venus square Saturn
Astrodawn, I read your other posts last night and saw whats been going on for you. I hope you are okay and that the out of control Mars-Pluto-venus guy hasn't revisited you. It can't be easy living in unease in case of his return.

Your son has a mother that loves him very much and that is the main thing. The other is that you work on healing the resentment or other emotions you hold for the family you feel abandoned by so that you can move on and start attracting more positive people into your life. You have done it with this friend of yours. more will come. This feeling of 'unloved' 'unlovable' 'unloving' just seems to attract more of the same from others until we deal with the core issue within us.
I have been truly alone. Many times when I have had an urgent need for assistance, I only had a neighbour or a work colleague to call on for help. I often used to wonder how long it would take anyone to notice I was gone if somethign happened to me. Even now when I have lots of people around me in comparison to those times, I still occassionally fall down and feel alone (see start of thread!), but not as frequently as I did then because i'm learning slowly to watch myself - watch when i fall into a cycle of negative, restrictive, self critical, other blaming, world blaming depressed state of mind, watch when I start losing perspective, or forgeting that there is a higher dimension to all my daily realities I can pick myself up before I hit bottom. I'm learning to take my power back and I feel this is something in need for you to. It all takes time though and you will in your own time.

Anyway, i keep going of track from astrology so i apologise to everyone for not keeping to theme. My interpretations are so basic still that I cannot really contribute a great deal - I'm learning so much from you all though.

2stepbay 06-04-2008 10:19 PM

Re: Venus square Saturn
Astrodawn - wow...quite a chart. mid-60's children have the Pluto/Uranus conjunction in Virgo. Born during a period of revolution. Now, as Uranus transits Pisces it is an amazing time/opportunity for you to re-calibrate your life.

Given you have a strong T square with Neptune in Sco in the 4th opposing Jupiter in Taurus in the 10th - both squaring your Leo Ascendant, there is a strong tendency to attract friends who run drama. Your North Lunar Node in Gemini in the 11th says be playful, choose friends who feel light and supportive in a healthy way. Seems like it's time to close doors on old relationships. If "friends" seem to take more than give, then I'd say the relationship does not serve you. May be time to close some doors here.

Saturn in the 7th and Chiron in the 8th, both in Pisces points to early challenges in childhood around your sensitivity. Add a Pluto/Uranus conjunction opposing Chiron and you add a lot of intensity to the mix.

Receiving bodywork (massage, craniosacral etc) can be very supportive in helping you to reestablish a healthy sense/relationship with your sensitive, psychic channels. Seems quite important for learning how to navigate in a different way, especially as transiting Chiron in Aquarius strongly aspects your T-square through the Fall. Let the healing continue. :) Answer lies in your heart - just ask your Leo ascendant.

Current strong transiting Saturn cycle (conjoins the Moon/squares Venus) says it's time to clear house (if you haven't done so recently, start by discarding items you no longer use, making space for new gifts.). Add to this the Uranus cycle opposing your Mars and Pluto conjoining your Sun and you have a major period of recalibration/transformation on the front burner.

Glad to see you are active with exercise - certainly good for your 10th house Taurus/Jupiter . Only suggestion - during personal exercise time don't think or distract yourself with outside stimulation (music/talk etc) Rather, simply quiet yourself so you can "feel" without judgement your life force. Connect to your heart in new and innovative ways. Oh...if you use coffee and or chocolate, know they are not your friends - they overstimulate the nervous system, acting as a magnet for drama, while making it challenging to use your sensitivity gifts in a healthy way.

Lastly, Venus in Sag. loves to read/get information. Square with Virgo Moon encourages you to trust your gut instincts (if it's not a "yes", then it's always a "no") rather than using your mental channels. Moon opposes Saturn in Pisces. Important you feel "safe" to explore your sensitive/vulnerable nature. Otherwise, there is a tendency to "armor yourself" via exercise.

rafaella 06-05-2008 12:58 PM

Re: Venus square Saturn
Hi guys,

I've been reading on this difficult aspect, its very interesting and has helped me understand why I can't seem to get through to someone who I hope to have a relationship with in the future. This person has Venus Conjunct Saturn in Virgo. He also has Sun conjunct Saturn in Virgo. Stellium in Virgo (4 planets).

A bit of history:
He was once one of my bosses, not anymore, I've moved to another department. I caught him watching me several times, he starred at me, maintained eye contacts and made excuses to talk to me in relation to work. I felt very attracted to him, but hardly showed my interest, I also felt very shy so I tried not to show too much. The complication at the time was that He was married and I was in a relationship. We didn't communicate about matters of attraction verbally, all our communication has been mostly eye contact and body language. Then I didn't see him for a long time and when I saw him again, the wedding ring was gone! Obviously, I wondered had it something to do with me? As I still was confused about my strong attraction towards him, I couldn't really show anything. I mentioned in one of my emails to him that I had a partner but I wanted to talk to him about his attraction towards me. He didn't answer back. I felt like he probably thought that I wasn't interested in him so I wrote again and I told him that I felt something for him too. But I also apologised if I hurt his feelings somehow and I said that lets just concentrate on work, and leave this behind us.

He knew how terrible I felt for my first email, so when I saw him again after that, he would give me quick glances as if waiting for me to come out my shell. I had gone back to thinking that this person was not the right person for me and I should concentrate on my relationship.

After that he continued giving me these intense eye contacts and I opened up a little, again just eye contact body language. But then I moved away from his department and months passed by, he didn't contact me. And I was going crazy. I wrote to him and I said I liked him, etc He didn't say anything. I wrote several emails, saying similar things, I also talked about me being in relationship and how I was a bit hesitant to take further step to meet him and talk to him. And then when I didn't receive any replies, I asked him if he could please send me an empty email if he wasn't interested, and he did.

So knowing about this aspect, I wrote an emotional email again. And I said that I was prepared to see if things between me and him could be developed. I told him I was prepared to end my relationship if things came to that. I had my doubts and fears, but ultimately I said I wanted him in my life. I asked him whether he had a fear of rejection? Why did he show me so much interest before and now nothing, I asked him to think about why he was so afraid to get hurt that he wouldn't even give this a chance. I told him happiness doesn't come to those who can't see past their own fears.

Something in my email must have got to him as I at last received an answer. Very cold tone. He, as I understand this now, is questioning my feelings for him. Whether they're true. He also asked why if he never expressed anything, talked to me about any of this, why then all these emotions, where all these feelings and emotions come from? He's making this so hard for me. Such a challenge. I feel like I've opened up so much, and yet he's still resisting. Hesitating. Questioning me. I do believe he has a low self esteem and everything that has been described previously in regards to this difficult aspect, I can see here too. I'm trying hard not to let his coldness get to me.

Does anyone have an advice that they can give to me? I feel like I'll have to keep giving him reassurances that I do feel this way and that my feelings are real and that he doesn't have to be a certain way for me to like him. I want him in my life and I know I will succeed, I hope. My Solar return for this year has a stellium -4 planets in 8th house,house of transformation and change. For next year I have pluto, sun and mars in 5th house and moon square pluto. This indicates some emotional transformation, strong emotions in a relationship. That I could only have if I were with him.

My birthdata are here:

4 january, 1979, 10:30 am, New Delhi, India.
Current location: Melbourne, Australia.

His I'm not quite sure about, I think he is born between 1-10 sep 1979, maybe with capricorn ascendant, don't know.
I use these data for him: 6 Septemeber, 1979, Melbourne, Australia, 12:30 pm.

Please please please, help me make sense of this person. I don't want him to push me away, I'm going to reach to him and get to his heart through all that coldness. I haven't seen him for 5 months so I miss him greatly. Most of what I know about him I've learned via astrology, so it scares me that I feel so strongly for him and yet I don't know very well. Our composite chart is strong too, venus conjunct pluto, mars conjunct pluto, mars conjunct pluto. In synastry, my north node is conjunct his sun, his venus, saturn all in my 7th house. His north node I believe is conjunct my saturn in vigrgo.
what can you tell me about all of this?

Thank you

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