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YonyGursho 06-10-2019 09:37 PM

Which is the sign of faith
 
Would Pisces or saggitarius be the sign of faith?

Both are lazy and unorganized personalities, whom prefer to sit back and let things unfold (although this is only the case with saggitarius a little bit of the time, whereas with pisces this is always the case).

Jupiter represents religion, knowledge, philosophy, and beliefs. Jupiter = saggitarius. But pisces is fatalistic, to the point where it sounds like it could be some sort of philosophical sign as well.

Any thoughts?

JUPITERASC 06-10-2019 09:51 PM

Re: Which is the sign of faith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YonyGursho (Post 977673)

Would Pisces or saggitarius be the sign of faith?

neither :smile:

Quote:

Originally Posted by YonyGursho (Post 977673)

Both are lazy and unorganized personalities, whom prefer to sit back
and let things unfold
(although this is only the case with saggitarius a little bit of the time,
whereas with pisces this is always the case).

those ludicrous generalisations
although fun
are unreliable

Quote:

Originally Posted by YonyGursho (Post 977673)

Jupiter represents religion, knowledge, philosophy, and beliefs. Jupiter = saggitarius.
But pisces is fatalistic, to the point where it sounds like it

could be some sort of philosophical sign as well.

Any thoughts?

ours is an astrological learning forum

some significations of Jupiter are as follows:
Quote:

Originally Posted by petosiris (Post 920697)

Jupiter completes 6 sidereal cycles and 65 synodic cycles with 71 years.
It has retreating arcs of 10 degrees for 120 days.

Jupiter is heating and moderately moistening, benefic, masculine and diurnal. Phaethon makes those born under him light, of good colour, moderately curling hair, large eyes, tall, commanding respect, having excess of hot and moist when morning rising, and light, with lank hair, bald in the front and on the crown, with average stature, having excess of moist when evening rising, and in general, cooperating, distinguished, advising, truthful, beneficent, efficient and outgoing. Jupiter controls begetting of children, childbirth, faith, love, desire, alliance, knowledge, justice, friendship with great men, prosperity, payments, large gifts, abundance of profits, governments, honours, authority over temples, arbitration of disputes, brotherhood, fellowship, inheritances, adoption, fidelity, the livelihood of the father, confirmation of good things, deliverance from bad things, freedom, entrustments, treasures, stewardship, athleticism and zealotry, the reproductive system, the digestive system, the integumentary system, sacred objects, tin, brilliant colours and sweet tastes. It is chronocrator over early old age up to the 68th year.


Bibliography:
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...blos/home.html
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf


YonyGursho 06-10-2019 10:21 PM

Re: Which is the sign of faith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JUPITERASC (Post 977683)
neither :smile:


those ludicrous generalisations
although fun
are unreliable


ours is an astrological learning forum

some significations of Jupiter are as follows:

So you think that each zodiac sign doesnt have certain weaknesses and strengths?

greybeard 06-10-2019 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YonyGursho (Post 977697)
So you think that each zodiac sign doesnt have certain weaknesses and strengths?

Read Machiavelli. You will find answers to your questions in this thin volume.

And yes, I must confess. I advocate use of the dictionary as an astrological text. The old-time astrologers were very careful in their choice of descriptive words. You can learn a great deal about astrology from the dictionary.

JUPITERASC 06-10-2019 10:58 PM

Re: Which is the sign of faith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YonyGursho (Post 977697)


So you think that each zodiac sign

doesnt have certain weaknesses and strengths?

SIGNS are neither Strong Nor Weak :smile:

PLANETS may have Weak or Strong PLACEMENTS
Quote:

Originally Posted by waybread (Post 662530)


No sign is intrinsically strong or weak.
It is made so by the planets in it (or the lack thereof,)
and by its position amidst the house cusps.


Just for example, as the mutable water sign, we might see Pisces as "weak"
but if someone has Pisces in the 10th house with the MC, sun and Jupiter (domiciled) there
with Jupiter trining the (domiciled) moon in Cancer,
Mr. Pisces has a lot of strength in this situation.
Much more so than the sun intercepted in Scorpio (fixed water) in the 12th house.

You get the picture.


Quote:

Originally Posted by tsmall (Post 663390)


There is no such thing as a weak sign.

There are weak placements, but no weak signs.

Signs are neutral.
They have descriptions, sure, like human, mute, violent, bestial, fertile, barren, crooked, long ascending, and on and on,
but at the end of the day, the signs are neutral.

It's the planets both in and that rule them that bring them to life.


Quote:

Originally Posted by luckyoctober (Post 662849)


Hi

There are No weak sun signs.

To say there is, it is belittling astrology.


There are natal charts that indicate a weak personality.
Charts lack of hard aspects,
(especially from saturn to personal planets)
with full of trines and sextiles may point to a weak person.
when there are tough transits, they easily feel depressed and they become paralyzed and Can't cope with problems.
Because,they are not familiar to that kind of stressful energy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitchy (Post 663048)


"there is no such thing as a weak sign"



YonyGursho 06-11-2019 02:57 AM

Re: Which is the sign of faith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greybeard (Post 977711)
Read Machiavelli. You will find answers to your questions in this thin volume.

And yes, I must confess. I advocate use of the dictionary as an astrological text. The old-time astrologers were very careful in their choice of descriptive words. You can learn a great deal about astrology from the dictionary.

In our cruel day-to-day world, which zodiac sign would you say would prosper most efficiently? (If the zodiac signs were just characters in our world).

Which zodiac signs would you say are best built for this world and which signs would you say arent?

Which zodiac signs would you say would be the ones to suffer, which would do just okay, which would be the ones to prosper?

CapAquaPis 06-11-2019 03:56 AM

Re: Which is the sign of faith
 
Signs of religion: Sagittarius and Pisces (ruled by Jupiter). Dogmatism: Aries and Leo (both fire and masculine). Reformation: Capricorn and Aquarius (ruled by Saturn). Schisms: Gemini and Libra (Air and masculine). The loss of beliefs: Scorpio. The Liberal sign Taurus (ruled by Venus) is symbolic of agnosticism. The more conservative sign Virgo emphasize traditional versions of religions. And Cancer describes the feminine nature of deities and spirituality.

YonyGursho 06-14-2019 02:21 AM

Re: Which is the sign of faith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CapAquaPis (Post 977778)
Signs of religion: Sagittarius and Pisces (ruled by Jupiter). Dogmatism: Aries and Leo (both fire and masculine). Reformation: Capricorn and Aquarius (ruled by Saturn). Schisms: Gemini and Libra (Air and masculine). The loss of beliefs: Scorpio. The Liberal sign Taurus (ruled by Venus) is symbolic of agnosticism. The more conservative sign Virgo emphasize traditional versions of religions. And Cancer describes the feminine nature of deities and spirituality.

Theres no proof pisces is ruled by Jupiter.

CapAquaPis 06-14-2019 04:59 AM

Re: Which is the sign of faith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YonyGursho (Post 978440)
Theres no proof pisces is ruled by Jupiter.

In traditional astrology, Jupiter is the ruler planet of Pisces, but you're going by modern astrology which declares Neptune to rule Pisces. In sidereal astrology, an annular solar eclipse on this Christmas day (December 25-26) combined with a Jupiter conjunction: a heavy Sagittarius influence. There is significance for people born on Christmas day, for example, Canadian PM Justin Trudeau (b. 1971) and French pres. Emmanuel Macron (b. 1977), tropical Capricorn and sidereal Sagittarius, but it's more natural for Capricorns to get into politics.

ardentika 06-14-2019 10:27 AM

Re: Which is the sign of faith
 
I would say mutable signs deal with perspective hence belief. Belief doesn't always has to be religious or spiritual, however mutables tend to be very spiritual sometimes even in a scientific way.

I think that 3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th somehow deal with our destiny . Whatever you believe is whatever you get. Hence why Sag is know to be a lucky sign, and Jupiter a lucky planet because it truly and deeply believes in goodness. I've seen so many heavy mutable people just get thisngs easily. Things just fall into place for them because they believe that. I myself can relate to that.

And yes Pisces is lazy, let's not sugar coat it. But their laziness comes more from old age. I've done this before so can't be bothered haha.

And I definitely don't agree that Scorpio is about loss of belief. Scorpio transmuted so whatever belief was lost it was just not serving the higher good. Many Scorpionic people I know are believers and very faithfully people .

petosiris 06-14-2019 11:40 AM

Re: Which is the sign of faith
 
''Further, the equinoctial signs have significance for sacred rites and the worship of the gods; the solstitial signs, for changes in the air and in political customs.'' - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...los/2B*.html#7

He says that Aries and Libra influence religions because they have a changeable, but balancing role like the equinoctial months.

moonkat235 06-14-2019 01:53 PM

Re: Which is the sign of faith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ardentika (Post 978483)
I would say mutable signs deal with perspective hence belief. Belief doesn't always has to be religious or spiritual, however mutables tend to be very spiritual sometimes even in a scientific way.

I think that 3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th somehow deal with our destiny . Whatever you believe is whatever you get. Hence why Sag is know to be a lucky sign, and Jupiter a lucky planet because it truly and deeply believes in goodness. I've seen so many heavy mutable people just get thisngs easily. Things just fall into place for them because they believe that. I myself can relate to that.

And yes Pisces is lazy, let's not sugar coat it. But their laziness comes more from old age. I've done this before so can't be bothered haha.

And I definitely don't agree that Scorpio is about loss of belief. Scorpio transmuted so whatever belief was lost it was just not serving the higher good. Many Scorpionic people I know are believers and very faithfully people .

@ardentika

I was just wondering when you say 'Sag is known to be a lucky sign and Jupiter a lucky planet, because it truly and deeply believes in goodness', were you meaning the sign and the planet in a vacuum has these traits? Or do you mean specific placements or people with stelliums have these traits? Same question on the Pisces being lazy. Just curious!

ardentika 06-14-2019 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonkat235 (Post 978540)
@ardentika

I was just wondering when you say 'Sag is known to be a lucky sign and Jupiter a lucky planet, because it truly and deeply believes in goodness', were you meaning the sign and the planet in a vacuum has these traits? Or do you mean specific placements or people with stelliums have these traits? Same question on the Pisces being lazy. Just curious!

I'd say major placements. Sun, moon, asc, stelliums or Jupiter on Asc,Mc maybe even IC but not DC lol.

As for Pisces being lazy I'd say the same placements . I know someone with Jupiter I'm Pisces conjunct ascendant and it's the most deeply unmotivated person I know lol. But it's almost like... In early age they space out too much. I speak for myself too cos I'm pisces rising as well.

It's too much mental focus inside and other worldly things wether it's movies and books, or magic and spirituality or science and discovering the mysteries of the world. However I think with age they get more grounded in this reality however their "laziness" also homes from just wanting a simple life with little to no strife. Laziness is perspective after all. Not everyone can be highly ambitious and goal driven haha.

CapAquaPis 06-15-2019 12:54 AM

Re: Which is the sign of faith
 
In tropical astrology, Jesus Christ was born on Jan 6th 1 AD (Dec 25th 1 BC) in the zodiac season of Capricorn, the sun enters this sign around Dec 21st. But in sidereal astrology, the sun enters Sagittarius on Dec 16-17 to place him in this religiously oriented sign. About 2,020 years ago, astrologers would use earlier dates from 2000 BC on when the sun entered Aquarius around...December 25 in the old calendar, we use the Gregorian one adopted by the Roman Catholic and all other Christian churches in 1582, when they moved the year 11 days ahead to fit correct astronomical placements to keep time (Leap year on Feb 29 every 4 years, as well the years 1600 and 1900, but not 1700, 1800 and 1900).

moonkat235 06-15-2019 02:25 PM

Re: Which is the sign of faith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ardentika (Post 978615)
I'd say major placements. Sun, moon, asc, stelliums or Jupiter on Asc,Mc maybe even IC but not DC lol.

As for Pisces being lazy I'd say the same placements . I know someone with Jupiter I'm Pisces conjunct ascendant and it's the most deeply unmotivated person I know lol. But it's almost like... In early age they space out too much. I speak for myself too cos I'm pisces rising as well.

It's too much mental focus inside and other worldly things wether it's movies and books, or magic and spirituality or science and discovering the mysteries of the world. However I think with age they get more grounded in this reality however their "laziness" also homes from just wanting a simple life with little to no strife. Laziness is perspective after all. Not everyone can be highly ambitious and goal driven haha.

That's a very curious analysis.

I have my Moon in Pisces, along with 3 other planets in Pisces, including my chart ruler (idk if you count that in your analysis?). Jupiter is angular, partile conjunction to my MC, so by your perspective, I should be very lazy and unmotivated! haha

I've never been described that way though. I tend to work so hard I burn out. For instance, all of my college career, I've worked around 30-60 hours a week while going to school full time. I burned myself out though and had a series of unfortunate events (3 major deaths of 2 family members and 1 roommate, psychiatric hospitalization, etc.).

I'll say though, I like your thoughts on the internal focus. I really do have a rich inner world that I engage with more than the external, perhaps to my own detriment by society's standards. I have never wished for a simple life with little to no strife. I mean, no one particularly wants strife in their life, but I view it positively, as a means of growth, evolution, the sloughing off of stagnation, etc.

I have trouble learning astrology. The more I learn about it, the more I realize that one aspect, placement, etc. doesn't really mean much without a holistic, almost intuitive understanding of the greater picture of the natal chart.

For instance, I'm not completely sold on your belief that these major placements can be equated with laziness and desire for a simple life, but I suppose if they were taken in a vacuum that might be the case? I just don't know. Perhaps though, there are many other factors in my chart that contribute to my behavioral presentation and internal processes.

Edit: As to the OP, I'm not sure such a question is useful or can be answered, because of the whole issue of signs in vacuums that I brought up in another thread of his. I do wonder if the combination of my personal chart factors contributes to my overall sense that I can do anything I desire to put my effort into, so I have 'faith' by some definitions. (It's an interesting dichotomy to my low self-esteem issues) I've never hit a wall that I can't eventually jump over. The challenges I meet seem rather impermanent.

One could isolate several of my chart factors I think as the culprit for why I have this sort of 'faith', but I believe it's all the factors together, ya feel?

ardentika 06-15-2019 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonkat235 (Post 978812)
That's a very curious analysis.

I have my Moon in Pisces, along with 3 other planets in Pisces, including my chart ruler (idk if you count that in your analysis?). Jupiter is angular, partile conjunction to my MC, so by your perspective, I should be very lazy and unmotivated! haha

I've never been described that way though. I tend to work so hard I burn out. For instance, all of my college career, I've worked around 30-60 hours a week while going to school full time. I burned myself out though and had a series of unfortunate events (3 major deaths of 2 family members and 1 roommate, psychiatric hospitalization, etc.).

I'll say though, I like your thoughts on the internal focus. I really do have a rich inner world that I engage with more than the external, perhaps to my own detriment by society's standards. I have never wished for a simple life with little to no strife. I mean, no one particularly wants strife in their life, but I view it positively, as a means of growth, evolution, the sloughing off of stagnation, etc.

I have trouble learning astrology. The more I learn about it, the more I realize that one aspect, placement, etc. doesn't really mean much without a holistic, almost intuitive understanding of the greater picture of the natal chart.

For instance, I'm not completely sold on your belief that these major placements can be equated with laziness and desire for a simple life, but I suppose if they were taken in a vacuum that might be the case? I just don't know. Perhaps though, there are many other factors in my chart that contribute to my behavioral presentation and internal processes.

Edit: As to the OP, I'm not sure such a question is useful or can be answered, because of the whole issue of signs in vacuums that I brought up in another thread of his. I do wonder if the combination of my personal chart factors contributes to my overall sense that I can do anything I desire to put my effort into, so I have 'faith' by some definitions. (It's an interesting dichotomy to my low self-esteem issues) I've never hit a wall that I can't eventually jump over. The challenges I meet seem rather impermanent.

One could isolate several of my chart factors I think as the culprit for why I have this sort of 'faith', but I believe it's all the factors together, ya feel?

I'm actually very happy to hear that you are so hard working with so many Piscwan and Jupiterian influence . Is it majorly squares tho? Is it in a cardinal house ? Just curious. You are right tho. Nothing is set in stone with astrology , awareness is above all.

moonkat235 06-15-2019 03:12 PM

Re: Which is the sign of faith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ardentika (Post 978825)
I'm actually very happy to hear that you are so hard working with so many Piscwan and Jupiterian influence . Is it majorly squares tho? Is it in a cardinal house ? Just curious. You are right tho. Nothing is set in stone with astrology , awareness is above all.

I have very few harsh aspects actually. My Sun squares my AC-Neptune-Uranus conjunction in Capricorn and my Jupiter is opposite my Venus. Those are the only harsh aspects I can think of in my chart. I have a lot of conjunctions though. lol

Pisces is 2H cusp in Placidus and 3H in whole signs. My Pisces planets just make trines, sextiles and conjunctions. lol

I have a former friend with more water and more Pisces than me. She's very hard-working as well, for the record. Works like 60 hours a week and is seen as a leader in the workplace. She has Pisces AC, all angles at 29 degrees. She has 4 planets in Pisces as well and actually 5 planets in the 12H under Placidus. Moon in Cancer 4H, Jupiter and Pluto-NN in Scorpio 8H. She's very hard-working. I would never describe her as lazy.

She also has no concrete belief system, or 'faith' in the sense of higher belief or religion, for the record. She likes astrology in a very nominal sense.

ardentika 06-15-2019 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonkat235 (Post 978829)
I have very few harsh aspects actually. My Sun squares my AC-Neptune-Uranus conjunction in Capricorn and my Jupiter is opposite my Venus. Those are the only harsh aspects I can think of in my chart. I have a lot of conjunctions though. lol

Pisces is 2H cusp in Placidus and 3H in whole signs. My Pisces planets just make trines, sextiles and conjunctions. lol

I have a former friend with more water and more Pisces than me. She's very hard-working as well, for the record. Works like 60 hours a week and is seen as a leader in the workplace. She has Pisces AC, all angles at 29 degrees. She has 4 planets in Pisces as well and actually 5 planets in the 12H under Placidus. Moon in Cancer 4H, Jupiter and Pluto-NN in Scorpio 8H. She's very hard-working. I would never describe her as lazy.

She also has no concrete belief system, or 'faith' in the sense of higher belief or religion, for the record. She likes astrology in a very nominal sense.

Usually a lot of conjunctions create a lot of drive and motivation, is what I've read. Squares create tension that can only be released with action.thats very interesting to hear!

moonkat235 06-15-2019 05:01 PM

Re: Which is the sign of faith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ardentika (Post 978833)
Usually a lot of conjunctions create a lot of drive and motivation, is what I've read. Squares create tension that can only be released with action.thats very interesting to hear!

That's interesting to hear... So do you generally focus on a couple placements or aspects when interpreting a natal chart?

The reason I feel I'm rather rudimentary and lacking in astrological abilities is because I get sensory overload looking at charts. I just think people are so complex and continually defy labels. Can a person really be so consistent as to fit one aspect or placement perfectly to the exclusion of all else in your opinion?

There's also an issue when I look at charts, because there can be a lot of contradictory information. How does it all fit together into one 3-dimensional real as can be human being?

I struggle a lot with it all. I understand the desire to break something so complex as a human into little isolated parts, but that doesn't paint the picture of the whole imo. So, asking whether someone has 'faith' because of one sign or assuming someone is 'lazy' due to one placement seems like an injustice to a person. There's a way, I'm sure, to fit all the pieces of the puzzle together into a cohesive whole. I just don't know how to do it.

Do you?

ardentika 06-15-2019 06:06 PM

Re: Which is the sign of faith
 
I wouldn't judge a person by a chart ever. People are truly unique . If I'd read a chart I'd get a basic feeling most of it using intuition. I think people are indeed too complex to be read. I'd first hear out the person and their problem and try to offer solution using the chart. But I wouldn't go far with detirmjns unless it's positive. :)

moonkat235 06-15-2019 06:08 PM

Re: Which is the sign of faith
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ardentika (Post 978858)
I wouldn't judge a person by a chart ever. People are truly unique . If I'd read a chart I'd get a basic feeling most of it using intuition. I think people are indeed too complex to be read. I'd first hear out the person and their problem and try to offer solution using the chart. But I wouldn't go far with detirmjns unless it's positive. :)

That makes sense. I feel rather contrite for my post actually. Have a nice day, ardentika!

ardentika 06-15-2019 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonkat235 (Post 978859)
That makes sense. I feel rather contrite for my post actually. Have a nice day, ardentika!

Why contrite ?


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