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-   -   Is Neptune a Malefic? (https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13105)

The_Sundance_Kid 11-30-2008 03:23 PM

Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
I have never seen a chart where Neptune really manifests itself positively.

It always seems to confuse, alienate, isolate, and scandalise things. People turn to escapism, do not achieve their potential etc. Forget artistic inspiration. People who really seem talented in the arts all seem to have Jupiter, Venus or Pluto issues, and Pluto is the planet that sees the truth and touches the universal consciousness. I would think that these are the qualities of good art. Forget spiritualism. I have only seen Neptune manifest itself in pointless martyrdom and self loathing. Real spiritualism I have seen in Jupiter with its compassion, or Uranus with its humanitarianism. Spiritualism is not completely passive as Neptune seems to suggest.

So I think Neptune is a false prophet. From an age that thought it had mastered the world and science, only to be dumbfounded by Pluto and the Bomb.

Anyone with me?

archergirl 11-30-2008 04:35 PM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
Unequivocally, yes.

I have Neptune on the 10th in my chart. Whilst some tomes suggest that I need a career that involves serving the higher good or sacrifice (or perhaps even a career in film), all I have had from Neptune is a lifetime of 'what do I want to be when I grow up?' I hover around the medical/counselling fields; I work in health and social care, but getting me to decide and commit to a career 'path', as it were, is an exercise in futility.

Neptune placements are very challenging; and from what I have seen in and amongst all the charts I've read, it causes the individual nothing but confusion.

AG:)

tootsie 11-30-2008 05:05 PM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
I'll agree Neptune brings confusion and is a challenge. What would you say about neptune conj the ac in a natal chart?
Cheers!

Vista 11-30-2008 05:17 PM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
Moved to another post.

Vista 11-30-2008 05:20 PM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tootsie
I'll agree Neptune brings confusion and is a challenge. What would you say about neptune conj the ac in a natal chart?
Cheers!

From what i have seen from my friends who have Neptune Conjunct their ASC is that they can be very alluring, sympathetic, intuitive(and sometimes physic) people who don't see themselves clearly. In other words, how people view them and their personality traits are completely different than how they view themselves. A tendency to play the martyr can be there too.
Vista

aquarius7000 11-30-2008 05:51 PM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
Like everything in life and every planet in Astrology, Neptune has its goods and bads, too. So does Jupiter, the great benefic could propel cancerous 'growth' in the body like nobody's business on the downside.

I have Neptune in the 4th house of home and family, and, I have a very compassionate and kind family; and no, there is nothing hidden or foggy about it. Each one of us is also spiritual in some way or the other. Parents are and grandparents were always involved in some kind of social care and/or community betterment projects, even if only on the side (besides their main job/business. Just some examples, and my thoughts and experiences.

:)aquarius7000

ALST123 11-30-2008 05:58 PM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
I agree, Neptune does seem to have malefic qualities (confusion, deceit, betrayal even). But it also seems to have benefic qualities, too (dreams, psychic ability, idolisation). Perhaps the key to Neptune is to remember that the nature of the planet itself is hard to pin down, it is by definition enigmatic, and perhaps we are meant to be confused about what it represents.

Just my thoughts,
Ax.

Shining Ray 11-30-2008 06:17 PM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
All the outers can be considered malefic in the natal chart. Neptune is not focused on outer success. Saturn cares more about what it achieves and about "status" than Neptune. Neptune is the ruler of the intangible side of life, it can tap into a wealth of collective inspiration and if the individuals chart has additional aspects which help motivate the Neptunian than these individuals can achieve artistic success. However if overall the chart really isn't that concerned with outer realisation of it's talents than the individual will be happy to just be in their own melancholic world of sadness, ecstasy and a range of emotions which they will just keep contained within. You can't really take Neptune in isolation and talk about achievements as this is not the planets domain, and so placed in the 10th is a difficult placement for this planet to be. I have Neptune in 4th house where being a watery house concerned with the inner world it can be more comfortable, mine is challenged so it is difficult for me to be fully satisfied.

Inside Out Orange 12-02-2008 01:23 PM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
I'm kind of very interested by this with some big Neptune transits occurring in 2009-10.

While other outer planets like Saturn and Pluto appear rather malefic, it's possible to see that they have longterm benefits in terms of creating achievement and transformation; even if the native finds them difficult at the time of transit or placement.

Neptune seems harder to spot the benefits especially in today's me-first society. I guess as other posters have said Neptune provides better empathy and compassion, a willingness to remove suffering and transcend one's personal ego and needs.

astrologer50 12-02-2008 02:05 PM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Sundance_Kid
I have never seen a chart where Neptune really manifests itself positively.

It always seems to confuse, alienate, isolate, and scandalise things. People turn to escapism, do not achieve their potential etc. Forget artistic inspiration. People who really seem talented in the arts all seem to have Jupiter, Venus or Pluto issues, and Pluto is the planet that sees the truth and touches the universal consciousness. I would think that these are the qualities of good art. Forget spiritualism. I have only seen Neptune manifest itself in pointless martyrdom and self loathing. Real spiritualism I have seen in Jupiter with its compassion, or Uranus with its humanitarianism. Spiritualism is not completely passive as Neptune seems to suggest.

So I think Neptune is a false prophet. From an age that thought it had mastered the world and science, only to be dumbfounded by Pluto and the Bomb.

Anyone with me?

Of course cos Jupiter rules 9th house of Sagg wherein lies Religion and spiritualism is a religion hon.

Neptune works by persuasion, never pressure. There is a secret hidden in sacrifice. The more you give yourself away the more you have to give.

Asc, Sun and/or MC in Pisces or Neptune in 1st house – rules pituitary gland, feet and sleeping rhythms. Bad aspects cause sleep disorders like insomnia.

Wherever your Neptune is, "IS WHERE YOU CARRY YOUR CROSS AND WHERE YOU WILL BE CALLED UPON TO MAKE A SACRIFICE!".

TRUE SACRIFICES ARE NEVER USUALLY RECOGNISED, OR ELSE THEY COULD TURN INTO MARTYRDOM!

Neptune Rules Drugs of all types , alcohol, tobacco, heroin, ether & anaesthetic, Gas lighting. Anything elusive, water has to be put in pipes.


Awakened_Pisces 12-02-2008 02:58 PM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
One Astro program said that my Neptune was in the element of Martyrdom, which made no sense whatsoever since I really am not a high religious person. However, as I think about it. I wanna be a politician. Hence sacrificing my own personal private life and to an extent even risking it for the betterment of the people. Is that an example of Neptune's energies?

astrologer50 12-02-2008 03:26 PM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Confusedpisces
One Astro program said that my Neptune was in the element of Martyrdom, which made no sense whatsoever since I really am not a high religious person. However, as I think about it. I wanna be a politician. Hence sacrificing my own personal private life and to an extent even risking it for the betterment of the people. Is that an example of Neptune's energies?

did you read my earlier post hon? martyrdom doesnt always have to be connected to religion and your interpretation would fit neptune, cos neptune is all about "Sacrifices" but something you would and are doing willingly. If you do this but say, "hey, look what sacrifices i'm doing for you all!" then this is martyrdom......

The_Sundance_Kid 12-04-2008 02:07 AM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
"Hence sacrificing my own personal private life and to an extent even risking it for the betterment of the people. "

That is not the CV of a politician, LOL. Or maybe I'm too much of an English cynic.

I'm interested that some have had good Neptunes, but I get the impression a good Neptune is simply a weak Neptune, although the 4th house one described doesn't seem half bad.

I'm not sure if all the outer planets can be seen as malefics as they are not focused on outward success. Firstly I thought the outer planets were all about outward success when related to social development. Unless that's not what outward success means. Even if the first point is erred, I've always thought Uranus and Pluto can be strong driving forces behind all sorts of personal achievements, or can pretty much lead to something.

I guess the thing that annoys me is that Neptune has always been a disappointment in every chart I've seen, which is a shame. Maybe it is by nature diffuse and doesn't lend itself to study in the same way as other planets, but maybe that in itself is a bad thing as it is too uncertain? It tends to lead to the opposite of catharsis, it just leads to nothing really.

MarieCamery 12-04-2008 03:05 AM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
In my chart, I would not say so, I have (like archergirl) the Neptune in the tenth house which is not bad at all. I am in the medical field and yes this is where the self goes out the window and you are just there to be for others besides yourself. It can be possible to take this to an unhealthy extreme and neglect your own needs, yet- Yes the more you give yourself away the more you have to give that has its truths. Neptune in my chart is a savior from a certain living hell.

Marie

lalalaheidi87 12-04-2008 03:13 AM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
Neptune truely does defines one generation from another... i always read about neptune being "spiritual" and "mystical" ... but i think it just sheds a becoming light on whichever sign its in, making that sign the into the "values" of the time


20s (roaring 20s) neptune in leo
30s-mid 40s (great depression, wwII, time of rationing and scarcity) neptune in virgo
mid 40s-50s (time of social balance, suburbian same-ness) neptune in libra
60's (probing the inner depths through drugs, sex, freudian psychology, new darkness in music) neptune in scoripo
70's (time of philosophical and psychological expansion continued from the 60s but on a ligher and more jovial note) neptune in saggitarius
80's (age of materialism/ commericialism/ yuppies) neptune in capricorn
late 90s-present (information/communication age, "save the envrionment" themes, music suddenly became "poppy" after period of earthy rock) neptune in aquarius



i think how neptune is aspected in the birth chart tells how the individual meshes and reacts to the generational values they are surrounded by.

astrologer50 12-04-2008 11:49 AM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Sundance_Kid
"Hence sacrificing my own personal private life and to an extent even risking it for the betterment of the people. "

That is not the CV of a politician, LOL. Or maybe I'm too much of an English cynic.

I'm interested that some have had good Neptunes, but I get the impression a good Neptune is simply a weak Neptune, although the 4th house one described doesn't seem half bad.

I'm not sure if all the outer planets can be seen as malefics as they are not focused on outward success. Firstly I thought the outer planets were all about outward success when related to social development. Unless that's not what outward success means. Even if the first point is erred, I've always thought Uranus and Pluto can be strong driving forces behind all sorts of personal achievements, or can pretty much lead to something.

I guess the thing that annoys me is that Neptune has always been a disappointment in every chart I've seen, which is a shame. Maybe it is by nature diffuse and doesn't lend itself to study in the same way as other planets, but maybe that in itself is a bad thing as it is too uncertain? It tends to lead to the opposite of catharsis, it just leads to nothing really.

Well perhaps youve simply not seen enough charts to see the positive, inspirational, psychic, intuitive nature. Idealism, self sacrifice. Of course most of these will be indicated by trines, sextiles and aspects, plus lots more..

Again, without some kind of disappointments in life, what would make your want to change things??? without having your thoughts and mind confused, lied to or misinterpretted things, how will you know how to gather your thoughts and put them into order (saturns domain....) All depends on the aspects and house positions...........doesnt it?

cassanra 12-04-2008 12:55 PM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
I too am curious about Neptunes effect. It seems to play a significant role in my chart being also anguler and connected to personal planets. It is in scorpio and in the 7th house and squares venus and mars in the 5th. Does this imply sacrifice for children and partnerships/marriage?Dissillusionment in that area? How would you tell what kind of negativity might be expected from that?
Neptune sextiles saturn, sextiles pluto...but it does sextile mercury..since saturn and Pluto are generational planets would I ignore those or focus more on house rulership? The trine to mercury could be interpreted more with positive imagination? or inspiration. Neptune rules an intercpted pisces in the 12th....

Neptune Rising 12-04-2008 01:09 PM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
I guess it can be difficult to fathom when there is a prominent Neptune. I have Neptune conjunct North Node in Sagitaruis conjunct Ascendant (12th house side). My life path doesn't seem as clear as other people I know, but I am drawn to yoga/healing/massage/spirituality very much. I think it gives psychic or sensitiveness which can get too much if not grounded. Things like meditation and other inner work help balance the more uncomfortable aspects of Neptune. A goal though for me with N Node/Neptune/Asc conjunct is to teach about the spirituality that I have learned. I have also had direct experience with the more addictive/illusionary/escapist dark side of Neptune, as well as experience through people that I know. So maybe the experience with Neptune's dark side can help to grow and add to the 'light' side...

NR

astrologer50 12-04-2008 02:01 PM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cassanra
I too am curious about Neptunes effect. It seems to play a significant role in my chart being also anguler and connected to personal planets. It is in scorpio and in the 7th house and squares venus and mars in the 5th. Does this imply sacrifice for children and partnerships/marriage?Dissillusionment in that area? How would you tell what kind of negativity might be expected from that?
Neptune sextiles saturn, sextiles pluto...but it does sextile mercury..since saturn and Pluto are generational planets would I ignore those or focus more on house rulership? The trine to mercury could be interpreted more with positive imagination? or inspiration. Neptune rules an intercpted pisces in the 12th....

physically Neptune cannot square venus/mars in 5th cos they are 2signs/houses away ie;60' sounds like venus/mars is in 4th (Equal house).

No substitute for research and study, explore both house systems and see for yourself which fits your life most appropriately.....

Sounds like you have good aspects to Neptune, but square to Venus suggests romantic disillusionment, poss involving finances at some time, with family members. I have Venus in 4th, i call this bake a cake syndrome cos it likes entertaining in the home and gets and gives pleasure from home and family matters.

Inside Out Orange 12-04-2008 04:48 PM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by astrologer50
physically Neptune cannot square venus/mars in 5th cos they are 2signs/houses away ie;60' sounds like venus/mars is in 4th (Equal house).

Neptune at end of 7th would square venus/mars at the beginning of the 5th ...

cassanra 12-04-2008 07:20 PM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
Yes, that is what it is...neptune is at the end of the sign.If I use the equal house system Neptune is with in 1 degree of the cusp of the 8th but still in the 7th...I will have to think about it? I am not sure how Neptune would manifest as being in the 8th ...will explore. thanks

The_Sundance_Kid 12-08-2008 12:37 AM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lalalaheidi87
Neptune truely does defines one generation from another... i always read about neptune being "spiritual" and "mystical" ... but i think it just sheds a becoming light on whichever sign its in, making that sign the into the "values" of the time


20s (roaring 20s) neptune in leo
30s-mid 40s (great depression, wwII, time of rationing and scarcity) neptune in virgo
mid 40s-50s (time of social balance, suburbian same-ness) neptune in libra
60's (probing the inner depths through drugs, sex, freudian psychology, new darkness in music) neptune in scoripo
70's (time of philosophical and psychological expansion continued from the 60s but on a ligher and more jovial note) neptune in saggitarius
80's (age of materialism/ commericialism/ yuppies) neptune in capricorn
late 90s-present (information/communication age, "save the envrionment" themes, music suddenly became "poppy" after period of earthy rock) neptune in aquarius



i think how neptune is aspected in the birth chart tells how the individual meshes and reacts to the generational values they are surrounded by.

I agree that Neptune might influence generation patterns and values, but so does Pluto and Uranus. The description above just doesn't fit with the decades- for instance in the UK the 60's was all about peace and opportunity, and the new liberal attitude. The darkness came in the 70's with depression and social and civil unrest, and dark gothic rock and rebellious punk. Contrast the Beatles to the Sex Pistols (are the Sex Pistols 70s?).

I can see there are some links, but on the whole it is very difficult to fit the transits of Neptune with mini 'eras'. I think it is because of the influence of other planets, and because often it is the generation's birth charts that become prominent, and not the transits.

The_Sundance_Kid 12-08-2008 12:43 AM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
Hey Neptune Rising, I was wondering if you think that people with prominent Neptunes have a slowness to them: they spend more time doing nothing compared to others. They seem to need more time just to take in and process things that happen to them.

Whereas other people seem to live life quite fast and in the moment, Neptunians are quite exhausted if they do this for too long, as their psyche needs to catch up and process all of their new experiences. I think this is a good thing, as often ignoring this need to process can wear people down and make them stressed.

Polo 12-09-2008 06:41 PM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
I think Neptune can be very good for compassion. I know a man who has this magic ability to heal animals. He could go near a dog known for its violence and turn it into the sweetest pup around. He had a strong Neptune, with Venus trine Neptune for one.
Neptune's abilities can be very hard to manifest here on Earth, but when brought out, they can bring miracles.

Jenna Jupiter 12-09-2008 08:32 PM

Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Sundance_Kid
I have never seen a chart where Neptune really manifests itself positively.

It always seems to confuse, alienate, isolate, and scandalise things. People turn to escapism, do not achieve their potential etc. Forget artistic inspiration. People who really seem talented in the arts all seem to have Jupiter, Venus or Pluto issues, and Pluto is the planet that sees the truth and touches the universal consciousness. I would think that these are the qualities of good art. Forget spiritualism. I have only seen Neptune manifest itself in pointless martyrdom and self loathing. Real spiritualism I have seen in Jupiter with its compassion, or Uranus with its humanitarianism. Spiritualism is not completely passive as Neptune seems to suggest.

So I think Neptune is a false prophet. From an age that thought it had mastered the world and science, only to be dumbfounded by Pluto and the Bomb.

Anyone with me?

I get your point.
The self loathing part was spot on!:eek:

There is however good parts with the planet....(I just dont't use them).
The artistic part however, don't agree. People with Neptune can be very artistic.


/JJ


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