Aspects seen in my dreams

[freedomlover]

Hello all!

I need some interpretation help. As some of you know, I have been at a very hard, very "stuck" place in my life for a very long time. Needless to say I've been praying and asking for direction and understanding. Often I am shown sections of astrological charts in my dreams as a way of being shown the way out of something. This happend again last night. These were the aspects I was shown:

Jupiter in Sagittarius in the 9th house, then Moon conjunct Neptune in the 7th house in Cancer, I think. (Maybe Pisces, but leaning towards Cancer. It's a little fuzzy.) There was a connection between these two things.

Then I was shown Chiron in Leo in the 1st house. It was in a duplicated 1st. Then I saw the second house, with Virgo on the cusp. There was a connection between these two things.

Can you all please help me decipher my riddles? I think the understanding of these aspects will be vital in helping me get "unstuck".

 

[freedomlover]

I decided to ask the Sabian Symbol Oracle about each of these sets of aspects.

For the 1st set (Jupiter in Sag/9th and Moon conjunct Neptune/7th/Cancer):
"A master instructing his disciple" 19* Pisces

For the 2nd set (Chiron in Leo, duplicated 1st and Virgo ruling second house):
"Three stained-glass windows in a Gothic church, one damaged by war" 1*Capricorn

 

[freedomlover]

Bumping this one up.

 

[virgo96019]

I don’t know anything about dream interpretation, but It seems to me that you may be in for some big changes within the next year, I’m sure you know Jupiter enters Sagittarius on November 26, and are the natural rulers of the 9th house, this can only be good. Perhaps an indication that you will be in a better position to help yourself to be more self sufficient. Maybe a change of residence. The Moon-Neptune conjunction may indicate that a situation could or already has occurred to make you view things in a whole new light and inspire you to take some bold action. The 7th could mean that someone you are very close with may help you or has been of help to you, maybe a business relationship? Maybe a love interest? I view Neptune in the 7th as somewhat of a warning not to jump into a friendship or relationship head over heals, and to take things slowly, and make sure that this is what is truly wanted, because you could be clouded by intense emotions. The moon here gives the ability to take care of the partners emotional needs, but it may not be reciprocated enough to give that sense of emotional security that is so needed by the individual, which may lead to moodiness and emotional outbursts. And the (moon cancer) heightened defense mechanism leads to a lot of worry, concern, and apprehension. Moon in cancer wants you to listen and trust your intuition more than you do, you won’t be let down. To me Cancer is geared more toward family than romance, but I can’t say for sure because this is a dream and not an actual chart. Neptune in Cancer…..between 1901-1915. I have no clue what this would mean, maybe past stress and strain within the family? As for Chiron I have yet to study its effects, but you have inspired me to do so. According to what I just read Chiron in Leo may mean that you need to stop or will stop dwelling on things that stand in your way and you need to figure out how to break through setbacks, so that you can make positive changes in your life. Ha, easier said than done! The fact that this was in the first house may indicate this could be a real problem for you, because it intensifies emotions. You may be way too hard on yourself. I think we “brainwash” ourselves into negative attitudes, when unfortunate things happen, it’s hard to concentrate on anything positive, and even when something positive comes about we always think of something negative to avoid any kind of potential disappointment that may take us by surprise. Therefore we are stuck, feeling like there is little hope, and always on guard. In my case it’s the hardships of my childhood at the hands of “Mommy Dearest” and I thank God I am nothing like her, if there is anything she taught me, it was NOT to be like her. And now as an adult it’s the “daily grind” never enough money, the kids, the husband, the job, my health, none are going very smoothly and haven’t been for a long time. But there is always hope….if Pluto would just get off me!!!!!! Also, do you have plans on furthering your education? Jupiter in Sagg may be telling you to go for it, now is the time!
Good luck!
Virgo
I wish I had dreams like that, mine are soo obscure! Last night I dreamt that I was shooting 2 black bears with a bow and arrow…lol must have something to do with my son and opening day this past Saturday.

 

[Lin]

Karen,
If you had to pick the one area in your life where you feel the MOST "stuck", what area would that be? I've printed out your chart and may be able to look at it in the next couple of days....
LIN

 

[laliqueviolin]

freedomlover,

I find it very interesting to have dreams where astrological aspects play a certain role-- I mean, to even dream of these things and the fact that, they make sense once you wake up and remember! I'll give my own interpretation...

Jupiter in Sagittarius in 9th house, you may want to explore, feeling free and doing as you please, you follow your own laws or truths, or take on a voyage, a journey in introspection(Moon Conj. Neptune). It will be beneficial for you, your faith and higher truths in things. Funny this, Jupiter in Sag and 9th house? Freedom loving, our freedomlover? I think this should represent or symbolise you.

Now your situation:
Moon conjunct Neptune -- interestingly enough, I take this as the subconscious dreaming realm. Being that these aspects and in Cancer or Pisces will make you very intuitive about your needs, but in 7th house... 7th houses are dealings and matters where consultants in general(including astrologers), marriage and relationships/partnerships/friendships in general play a role. So yes, you are right this dream will guide you in some way, almost like being your own therapist! Because this is the hidden side to ourselves, what we seek to attract from other people. In 7th house Cancer.. Partnership, relationship that feeds your emotional needs and security so you may feel safe from the support and resources coming from "other people" in which you cannot support yourself. Sometimes it's hard to hold onto advice, Neptune plays tricks on your emotional security, you lose the sense of security just only seconds after you've felt secured or so sure of something. Conjunction works both ways, negative or positive, so it may or may not happen to you or to other people. Possible forewarning of be a psychic drain, not being reciprocated, but from whom? Open enemy close to home. You may meet someone who will offer these things to you, or you may be disillusioned such persons/things are meant for you when clearly they are not. They do not 'feed' you well, or maybe you are "starving" in the general area of being taken care of, and are not getting the support you need. Cancer, anchor your emotional needs. Astrologically, being on 7th desc. Capricorn is on the Asc. You are seen as your own steel frame, but you have nobody at home to nurture and make you grow, there is no substance, "nobody at home", so all you really have is a steel frame that does nothing but stand around, turning rusty and old. You need substance. You need to be your own vehicle, take a note from Cancer(or Pisces), crab and fish, their home is on their back, for the fish their home is everywhere they swim-- a bit homeless actually, but not quite.

You need people to tell you day in and day out to figure out what exactly your needs are, to provide you the emotional security, maybe this confuses you greatly time to time because you're the vehicle that always changes the course and the experience can often be scary when you really want to settle, but it's not happening. Your needs are a mystery, but the more you keep asking others what the problems can be, the more understanding you become or the more lost you feel. Don't seek others, or don't rely on them so much. Another take: You realise something grants you one thing while it's exactly what you're running towards to what you're afraid of.

Maybe your solution:
Chiron in Leo, first house. Expression, ego, creativity, having fun, romance, entertainment. Healing lies in self-expression and creativity in order to heal yourself out of this stuck situation. Art therapy, indulging in films, just going out and having fun can be one thing that can heal some wounds or help you tremendously for your ego, yourself. You have to be your own Sun and your own resource center. Virgo in 2nd house, your values, your health, being important every single day of your life. What efforts do you do to make most of your day to take care of such needs?

I hope this helps in any way possible.

 

[freedomlover]

Thank you all for you generosity in answering my post! It seems to have multi-layers and meanings. In the days since the dream, I've uncovered several ways it applied to me. And, by the way, I forgot to mention, that I got a "bad" feeling with the Jupiter in Sag in 9th house, so I tend to think it has to do with the "downside" to this placement. I've been shown several ways the Moon/Neptune Conjunction in 7th has been affecting me, and you all were very accurate on the ways this played out. Basically, it had to do with decption in relationships - either them deceiving me, or the wrong judgments I'd made of them.(There's the Jupiter in Sag/9th!)

To: Virgo96019

You were very helpful in your interpretations. Also, you brought out Neptune in Cancer - my grandmother had this placement. I think it ties in with this aspect in the sense that my mother was very cold and distant, mostly because HER mother (Neptune in Cancer) was very cold and distant to her. I have had a hard time emotionally bonding with people because of that. Possibly this is what has me pursuing Jupiter in Sag ideals? - love of travel, knowledge, not ever letting anyong get too close? The "pursuit of education" also pleased my mother very much, and I excelled, much of that to try to make my mother pleased with me. I wouldn't say my mother was "Mommy Dearest", exactly, but very close. And her mother would have fit that category. My mother was fascinated by that book and movie, as I remember.


To : Lin

Thanks for your offer to help!!!!
I would say that the area of "stuckness" would be a combination of the following: every goal I try to pursue coming to a quick dead end, very poor health and inability to work, inability to manifest finances or obtain help from anyone. I seem to be completely ignored for the most part - quietly dying while no one seems to take notice or care .Everyone seems to have the attitude that there is nothing wrong with me, and that I should "just get up and work for a living", like everyone else. Never mind that I feel like the life is being drained from me, and sometimes my legs won't support me, and I have trouble walking, chronic fatigue, intense brain fog, and a vast array of other symptoms that I cannot seem to get any medical help for because I have no insurance or money to pay. How's that for stuck????????? I guess I could sum up by saying I really just need to RECEIVE some help out of this hole, but I can't seem to get in a position to RECEIVE. Everybody just keeps wanting me to give, and give, and give........(That's as much as I could narrow it down, when it came right down to it. sorry...)

I will say the "ahas" of the last few days may start to change the dynamics of why and what I've created in my world, as I now have somewhat of a different mindset. However, I'm still open to interpretations of my chart as to what would be a way to try to change my life for the better. I've tried so many things and failed, that I seem to be out of touch with what I really need and want, which is the metaphysical way out of this. It's everything I can do to keep holding on to a tiny string of hope. I really empathized with Yelena234!

To: SS

Yes, with the "bad" feeling I got from the Jupiter in Sag/9th, I would say it is loving my freedom just a bit too much!!! (But that was one of the "ahas" I got in the last few days.)

If you read the preceding paragraphs of answers to Lin, then I think you see that you pretty much "hit the nail on the head", describing my inability to get support from others. You also described the "psychic drain" pretty well. I'm not really sure where it's coming from, but I feel like someone is "living" off my energy, like there is a hose draining all my energy out for someone or something else to feed on.

Incidentally, the "home on my back" was another one of my "ahas". I had to come to terms with my homelessness - just accept that I was having to live with others, and quit pining away for "my own place".

As to the Chiron in 1st in Leo, and Virgo on cusp of second house..... I've not gotten as far with this set of aspects as the others. I'm still "mulling over" all of the suggestions and ideas, including some of my own. I think SS is barking up the right tree with it though. I just can't seem to move into that place where I can indulge my creativity and find my self-expression - mostly due to the previous paragraphs.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Sabian Symbols I received for these dreams?

Also, one other thing to ponder..... The evening before I had these dreams, I had agreed to take a job living in and cooking, errand-running for an elderly lady, in an effort to get out of where I'm at. It was in the area I want to live in, and I have been told I had only a few weeks to stay where I'm currently at. I jumped at the offer, but after these dreams, I'm not so sure. For the interpretations that I have realized and you all have confirmed could definitely apply to this situation: Jupiter in Sag/9th - "bad" feeling - long journey to new home? And I think it's going to be great? Then the Moon/ Neptune conjuncation in Cancer in 7th...... maybe the lady isn't as sweet as they say, or maybe she requires much more care than they let on? I really don't want to jump out of the frying pan into the fire, so to speak. I'm thinking of posting a horary question on this one.

Anyway, big hugs to all of you for your help.

 

[unukalhai]

As far as the sabians go, Jupiter sitting in its own sign, and its own house, is definitly the master instructing the disciple. Remember that Jupiter is not only considered "king" (or master!) of the solar system, but also deals heavily with religion (discipleship, etc) -- the symbol is very appropriate.

The Moon/Neptune conjunction in the Moon's sign (with a blurry burst of Neptunian Pisces, apparently!) probably shows what the master is going to lead you through (or more likely, is presently leading you through). In esoteric philosophy, Moon/Neptune represents the "Moon/Neptune Transformation", also known as the 2nd initiation, represented in religion as the baptism of Christ. It is also referenced in religion as the Gethsemane Experience. This is when the Christ faced his fears after being deserted, betrayed, and called out "Oh father, if you are willing, take this cup from me!". he was literally at the "end of his rope"... Yet after he overcame his fears, his response was "Lord, let not my will, but Thine be done" for he had overcame fear and pain by surrendering to a universal power. His Moon had been transmuted to universal consciousness (Neptune).

The 2nd initiation, at its core, is about raising the resonance of the native's lunar energy to a universal consciousness, and findind true compassion and love for all (Neptune) -- This process is acheived through experiencing both the passion and pain of love, on a very deep emotional level. Esoteric philosophy terms the experience a "mystical death" or "the dark night of the soul". It is a time of much tension, of a battle between polar oppositites. Spirit and matter, good and evil, pain and pleasure, love and hate, become hard to seperate and make clear. Both must be experienced, emotionally, as one. The experience continues until the initiate can clearly seperate the two, and integrate them as a holistic experience. What is really happening here is the maturity of the emotional self (your lunar being); The goal is to leave behind the confusion and contamination of the water element stemming from one's own selfishness, and truely open one's heart to all others and the universal itself.

Purification of the self is extremely important to handle the experience... Remember that baptism is a symbolic cleansing, the cleansing of all self-focused energy to merge with the universal.

The 2nd initiation is the gateway to the 3rd initiation, which is the final integration of the three-fold personality and the unleashing of personal willpower. The 3rd initiation is known as the Sun-Pluto transformation, or in religion, the "Transfiguration".

Google should reveal a significant number of writings on the Moon/Neptune transformation / 2nd initiation, this is a major concept of esoteric philosophy and is represented in various stories/experiences in many philisophies and religions.

The 2nd degree of Capricorn is a deep symbol relating to the three-fold personality. The three stained glass windows represent the three "filters" of the soul through which the light of life pass, as in each element of the three-fold personality. One of them has been damaged by war. War damaged compassion and love, by violence. As such, it is our part of compassion and love which has been hurt. The damage done to this "stained glass window" is repaired by restoring love and compassion to the soul. Easier said than done! On the surface, it is easy to fake compassion. Many of us do it every day. But, for those who face these lessons, it is not superficial. The work must be done on a soul level, which is much harder.

The 2nd degree of Capricorn is my ascendant. Both through the chart, and the experiences of my life, it is clear to state the repairing of this broken window is my life work, for this incarnation. I can say it is not an easy bit of work to approach, it is the sort of thing the soul recoils from due to the amount of effort as well as pain which has to be faced. You could say the broken shards of glass are deeply embedded in the soul's water element, and each one that is to be removed ensues bleeding and then healing, much as removing shrapnel from a bomb set off in a war.

Also important to note, Chiron rising in Leo speaks for a wound based on one's own pride.

Be strong,
-U

 

[Lin]

Karen,
I've sent you a personal message.
LIN

 

[freedomlover]

Unukalhai,

Thank you so much for a very enlightening post! I think this is the first time one of us has answered the other. I always enjoy reading your posts. You really helped me to shed some light and understanding on my situation. Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane is an image that has come to me often to describe where I've been.

I feel your interpretations of the Sabian Symbols I received was dead-on. It was really interesting the way you tied that in with astrological influences and the religious initiations. I'd never heard it taught that way before. Fascinating!

Thanks again!

 

[freedomlover]

To: Charmvirgo:

Thanks for all the encouragement. I'm leaning towards taking the job at this point. It was not that I "just wanted to be free". I was open to the job, but the lady's daughter (whom I spoke with) didn't give a lot of detail as to the job description. She then went on vacation for a week. In the meantime, I was having all of these worrisome thoughts about what if it's not what I think it is? what if I'm biting off more than I can chew?, etc. I didn't want to get down there and then find out that she expected breakfast on the table every morning at 8am, or something. I havee only "X" amount of energy per day. I have been very limited in what I'm physically able to do. The lady's daughter said that she needed someone to stay with her mother because she had panic attacks by herself, and in case she fell again, get her groceries and medicine and prepare some of the meals. But I was concerned there might be more of a schedule to it that I would not be physically able to keep, as the lady didn't actually spell everything out exactly. She was rather vague. Anyway, I talked with a lady who knows the situation well, and she seems to think it would be what I think it is, and would be very flexible around my own personal needs (sleep schedule, etc.). Ssooooo.... I basically wanted to know we were on the same page, etc, before I used the last of my finances to drive almost 500 miles to get there. It's a big leap of faith if I go.

Anyway, you had some good thoughts on how my dream aspects might apply to this upcoming situation. Like I said, they certainly do seem to have many layers of meaning.

I guess it is a little unusual to get astrological aspects in a dream, but then again, I was originally told in a dream that I should study astrology - that it would be very helpful to me.

 

[unukalhai]

Unukalhai,
Thank you so much for a very enlightening post!

Your very welcome, I'm glad I could offer it.

The 2nd Cap symbol is very powerful... It's also a major symbol for all of us, especially those born from around 1917 to 1989... Which is the vast majority of us!

Between these years, due to precession, this was the tropical degree of the Solar Apex.

The solar apex, or the Apex of the Sun's Way, refers to the direction that the Sun travels through space. This is not to be confused with the Sun's apparent motion through the constellations of the zodiac, which is illusory -- this supposed motion is actually caused by the Earth revolving around the Sun.

While I have not fully realized the importance of the solar apex, it seems obvious to me the degree towards which our whole solar system (since the Sun drags the planets with it) is immensely important and likely would show the overall path and direction of human consciousness, represented at its core by the Sun.

Currently, the Solar Apex has moved to the 3rd degree of Capricorn.

If anyone has any words to add on the Solar Apex, please post!

 

[Arian Maverick]

The 2nd Cap symbol is very powerful... It's also a major symbol for all of us, especially those born from around 1917 to 1989... Which is the vast majority of us!

Do you know approximately what month in 1989 the tropical degree of the Solar Apex changed from 2 Capricorn to 3 Capricorn? I wish to know if I am included in the vast majority

Arian Maverick

 

[freedomlover]

An update for all of you.....

Apparently, one definite meaning of the aspects DID have to deal with the agreement to take the job as a live-in caretaker to the old woman. I kept having a squirrely feeling about it. When I called yesterday to tell the woman I would not be able to come right away, due to my car and health reasons, she had this to tell me: She said that she had talked to her brother the night before, and they had both agreed that their mother was playing on her emotions to get out of the nursing facility. It turns out that the old woman is only halfway through her prescribed course of therapy. She has congestive heart failure, and currently is too weak to bathe herself. She was chomping at the bit to get back to her own home, which is understandable, but apparently not prudent under the circumstances. If I had gone down there, the old woman would have been released before she was ready, and I would definitely NOT have been able to care for her in that kind of shape. They kept telling me that she just needed someone to stay with her in case she fell, and to get her groceries and medications, and make a few meals - this I could have done. But it kept coming to me that she would require much more care than what they were telling me, and that they weren't telling me everything for some reason. In addition, they had found out that if she was released before she was ready, and then realized she should have stayed and gone back in, she would have to pay for everything out of pocket. Medicare would not pay if she did that, and she doesn't have any kind of insurance supplement. So, that is the reason her son and daughter finally told her she had to stay - the risk was too great that she would wind up needing to go back in and have no way to pay for it.

All that glitters is not gold.


(I'm back to square one.)

 

[unukalhai]

Maverick,

Astrolog32 claims the change occured on March 4th, 1989, 11:48AM GMT, however I am unsure exactly how accurately Astrolog32 handles precession. I don't work with the fixed stars much and have not compared it to other applications.

If accurate, that puts it within a day of the first 1989 Saturn/Neptune conjunction and puts Uranus close to the Apex (5th degree Cap). If it's precession calculations are stunningly accurate, that puts the Apex, at its change to the 3rd degree of Cap, in partile quintile to the Sun and biquintile Mars, with Sun at the Apex/Mars midpoint... But I doubt its that accurate, considering how slow precession is.

Freedomlover,

That sounds like a bad situation! I've lost a family member to CHF, its unfortunately common. Good to hear you got all the information, and aren't stuck in a bad situation... Good luck!

 

[JamesYoung]

Hello.

In order to understand a birth chart it is first neccessary to start with a 'clean' chart like the one attached. Next, it is also vital to cut through the astrobabble and mystical mumbo-jumbo and get to the essentials of Astrological interpretation, which are basicaly quite simple.

I can immediately see from your chart that you have your Sun in the 12th House squared by Saturn. This is the cause of your problem and will result in periods in which you feel restricted and unable to move forward, and I would imagine it is not easy to cope with, mainly due to the tendency of the 12th House to make situations look worse than they really are.

To find out more about your own chart I would suggest that you take up my genuinely free offer of an AstroPlan that will help guide you through the main points in your chart. It can be found at:

www.firststop-astrology.com/Freebies/Free_chart.htm

The AstroPlan also includes a free, correctly-calculated chart.

View attachment 243

 

[freedomlover]

JamesYoung,

I appreciate your kind offer to help, and I did go to your site for a chart. I received it several days later, and went over it with the help of your "walk-me-through' program. To each his own, but I had to set the chart aside because you used a system that gave me a Sagittarius AC, and shifted many of the house placements. This just brought too much confusion in trying to apply it to me. I'm sorry, but I just don't see any way tnat I DON'T have a Capricorn AC. People that know me describe me as Capricornic to the point that you could never tell I had a Sagittarius Sun (although my closest friends know different). From what I know about me and my life, and the accuracy in the past, I also believe my Sun fits better in the 11th house. I don't remember the rest of the chart, but as I recall, I had the oppositions in the 3rd/9th vs the 2nd/8th.
I can sort of see how some of your chart fits, as well, which is rather odd how both could be right. Maybe the house system you use just offers a different view of the issues - coming in from another angle.

However, for clarity's sake, I have to adopt one chart as the standard I use. I believe the house system I have always used works very well for me.

James, I respect your views as an astrologer, and I'm not saying that I found nothing helpful in the chart you prepared, because I did. However, I do not appreciate your attitude that your way is the ONLY way. There are lots of other different viewpoints that are valid, as well. That is the beauty of astrology - always more to learn - an ever-expanding vision.

I am also aware of the fact that you do not believe in using asteroids, as do several other members of this site. Again, I say, to each his own. When I went to your site, I recognized one of the situations you were talking about as coming from a thread on this forum. It was the one where you told BorX how bad his chart was, and that he shouldn't use asteroids. You basically made BorX out to be an idiot that didn't know what he was talking about. But then to post that on your site for everyone to read???? That is YOUR OPINION, James!!! Many, many people on this site, including myself, have found BorX's interprtations (including his use of asteroids) to be very helpful. But I guess, as it is YOUR site, you can say whatever you want. I just want to add MY opinion that I think it was arrogant and a dirty thing to do.

In closing, I want to restate that you have some very valuable insights, but so do the other people on this forum.

Respectfully yours,

Freedomlover

P.S. I was also at a loss to figure out how what you said tied into the topic of this thread, "Aspects Seen In My Dreams". Would you care to expound on how what you said applied to my dream aspects? I could see both Sag and Pisces brought up in what you said, but could not understand how that fit in with what I dreamed.

 

[JamesYoung]

Hello.

I am somewhat mystifed. You say you have a Capricorn Ascendant yet the birth data you supplied clearly shows Sagittarius. Not my doing - a product of chart calculation. Are you now saying that your birth time is wrong?

I should point out that your Sun is in a sensitive position in the 12th House squared by Saturn which would go a long way to accounting for your Capricorn dominance. Also, Saturn is in a sensitive Sign - Pisces- and is part of a T-square, thereby increasing its overall effect. This, together with an unaspected Jupiter, would easily mislead.

You insist that Placidus is the one for you. Out of the 40 odd quadrant sytems in existence, why did you decide on this one? Was it because most people were using it or have you checked out the other 40? The point I am trying to make is that it is easy to make a House system work if that's what you want, but the reality of the situation is that the only system that works anytime and for anywhere on the globe is Equal House. It may not be trendy, but it does work given the chance.

I am not well versed in dream interpretations; the reason I posted a reply was because you asked about being 'stuck'. I suggested this was due to your Sun Saturn square, and having looked at your chart again I can see that the dominant Saturn previously mentioned is the culprit. Notice especially that with three planets in the 12th, one of them being Neptune, you will get vivid dream like the one mentioned. This would not be a possibility using Placidus.

You accuse me of arrogance and stating that mine is the only way. I never said this nor have I ever implied it either. I simply say that unless people adopt the methodology and thinking of professional Astrologers they are likely to go off track. It is far too easy for enthusiatic believers to propose fanciful or ill-informed ideas and theories without bothering to check them out. Just because something is written in a book or believed by someone else does not mean that it is correct, and the result of this is to place highly dubious material in the mainstream which is then, in turn, adopted by others, and so on... This is regretable and I for one am trying to point out that there are well-established ways which are in danger of being buried under an avalanche of disinformation. Now unless you wish to impose some form of censorship on forums such as this, you can expect people with alternative views to pop up every so often to defend the cause of real Astrology, and if that if classified as arrogance then so be it.

The article you allude to on my web site did not include any names - unlike yourself. I spend my time trying to inform the public about Astrology and sometime I have to point out the downside. Here we had an example of a badly drawn chart, one that is regretably the norm these days, so I though it necessary to show people why this chart was of no use and what a real chart should look like. The article was in no way intended to denigrate a particular individual, but simply to make a point, which is that if people don't customise the software they are using for chart calculation then all manner of irrelevant factors are introduced, not to mention wrong orbs, incorrect Houses systems, too may aspects, spurious artifacts, resulting in an unreadable and inaccurate chart.

There is a great deal of difference between genuine 'insight' and pure speculation, but people are free to believe whatever is presented to them in whatever form by anyone skilled or unskilled, and that is the problem. How is the public to know the difference, though? Unless someone poses questions and challenges ideas, particularly the more outrageous ones, one could argue that they will never know, and that would be to everyone's detriment.

On the question of asteroids, I am of the opinon that they are purely speculative and have never been proven. Yes, it is easy to say such and such an asteroid does this or that, but does it really? If you give me an example of the effects of a specific asteroid in your chart I will show you the same effects attributed to a planet.

Regards.

James Young.

 

[freedomlover]

JamesYoung,

To answer your questions.... No, I'm not saying my birth time is wrong. I'm just saying that the house system I use gives me a Capricorn AC. As to how I began using Placidus, I guess I just kind of "fell into it", and it seemed to fit me very well. I have tried out a few other systems, including the equal house, prior to getting a chart from you. Even though some of these fit me in some ways, I did not feel they fit me as well as the Placidus. It seems to me that the other house systems I tried also gave me a Cap Ac, so I stuck with the Placidus. I have not tried the other 30-some systems, but would be open to do so. My point to you was that I HAVE tried the equal house system, and for me, I think the Placidus is better than the equal house.

In the Placidus system, I have Mercury retrograde in Sagittarius in the 12th house. I feel this is also a good placement for informative dreams. I think Neptune in the 12th would give more "motion picture" style dreams, which I've heard other people have all the time, but I rarely do. Mine are informative dreams, and usually answer the questions I've asked before going to sleep. To me, this is a very Mercury in Sag type of dreaming.

 

[freedomlover]

To finish my reply......


"""""You accuse me of arrogance and stating that mine is the only way. I never said this nor have I ever implied it either. I simply say that unless people adopt the methodology and thinking of professional Astrologers they are likely to go off track. It is far too easy for enthusiatic believers to propose fanciful or ill-informed ideas and theories without bothering to check them out. Just because something is written in a book or believed by someone else does not mean that it is correct, and the result of this is to place highly dubious material in the mainstream which is then, in turn, adopted by others, and so on... This is regretable and I for one am trying to point out that there are well-established ways which are in danger of being buried under an avalanche of disinformation. Now unless you wish to impose some form of censorship on forums such as this, you can expect people with alternative views to pop up every so often to defend the cause of real Astrology, and if that if classified as arrogance then so be it. """""(quote JamesYoung)

Hmmm.... You have never implied that your way is the only way? ""you can expect people with alternative views to pop up every so often to defend the cause of REAL astrology, and if that is classified as arrogance then so be it."" (quote, my emphasis added). Your very words imply that YOU know REAL astrology, and the rest of us wretched imbeciles don't know what we're talking about. I classify that as arrogance.

You have just as much right to be on this forum as anyone else, and there is a need for what you have to teach. But to say that all other systems are wrong???? And they should come to YOU if they want a REAL chart reading? I agree with you totally that you shouldn't believe everything you hear or read,but I believe that one should test things out for themselves. But do you realize that the way you come across is trying to make that decision FOR other people? They need to decide for themselves what works for them and what doesn't. That's the only way they will learn. The way you come across is "Don't believe everything you hear or read, BUT come to my site and believe everything I say." Do you realize that you, as an established astrologer, are bringing confusion to those who are just learning to feel things out for themselves. You are saying that they are wrong, but what if they are RIGHT, and you were a stumbling block to them? From my viewpoint, you are right about some things, and wrong about some things. (Aren't we all?)

"""The article you allude to on my web site did not include any names - unlike yourself. I spend my time trying to inform the public about Astrology and sometime I have to point out the downside. Here we had an example of a badly drawn chart, one that is regretably the norm these days, so I though it necessary to show people why this chart was of no use and what a real chart should look like. The article was in no way intended to denigrate a particular individual, but simply to make a point, which is that if people don't customise the software they are using for chart calculation then all manner of irrelevant factors are introduced, not to mention wrong orbs, incorrect Houses systems, too may aspects, spurious artifacts, resulting in an unreadable and inaccurate chart. """ (quote JamesYoung)

My case in point: BorX is a young astrologer, and a very talented one at that. You were very disrespectful to him on this site, and then continued the disrespect on your own site. Many of us on this site found no problem in reading his charts, and they apparently worked very well for him. Why does everyone have to do things the way YOU do it for them to be doing it "right"? The things that were" wrong" with his chart were only "wrong" from YOUR view point.

"""There is a great deal of difference between genuine 'insight' and pure speculation, but people are free to believe whatever is presented to them in whatever form by anyone skilled or unskilled, and that is the problem. How is the public to know the difference, though? Unless someone poses questions and challenges ideas, particularly the more outrageous ones, one could argue that they will never know, and that would be to everyone's detriment."""" (quote James Young)

"People are free to believe whatever is presented to them....... and that is the problem." ?????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I believe this is called FREE WILL, and there is NO problem with that. People ARE responsible for what they choose to believe, however, and that is why it is important to "go within", and see what works for them, instead of believing every "wind of doctrine", OR people who CALL THEMSELVES an expert.

"How is the public to know the difference, though? Unless someone poses questions and challenges ideas,particularly the more outrageous ones, one could argue that they will never know, and that would be to everyone's deteriment.""" (quote JamesYoung)

EXACTLY!!!! And that is why I decided to quit sitting on my duff and watching you run roughshod over this forum, and say something about it. However, the good people of this forum are free to believe what I say, or toss it out.

"""On the question of asteroids, I am of the opinon that they are purely speculative and have never been proven. Yes, it is easy to say such and such an asteroid does this or that, but does it really? If you give me an example of the effects of a specific asteroid in your chart I will show you the same effects attributed to a planet. """ (quote JamesYoung)

Many others on this forum don't give asteroids the time of day. That's their prerogative. However, with my personal experience on the forum, I haven't caught any of the rest of them crusading that everyone else should ditch THEIR belief in working with asteroids. Personally, I have found them EXTREMELY helpful in reading charts, even some of the lesser known ones that hardly anyone uses. It works for me, so I'm keeping it.

And if you choose to keep doing things the way you've been doing after I've said all of this... then that is YOUR prerogative. I have said my peace - what I really felt needed saying - and this is still a forum that honors freedom of speech. (and writing)

Respectfully,

Freedomlover