Winged, Licentious, Amphibious, Broken signs & the rest

Dima Gur

Well-known member
Hi everyone,

I’m trying to delve deeper into the secondary traits of the signs (or classifications of zodiac signs).
I think that most people are familiar with the following categories:
Fertile, barren, bestial, feral, humane, double bodied and mute signs.
But there are other zodiac signs traits which are also mentioned in the tradition, and are less often discussed.
I think there were more classifications in the Hellenistic tradition, and some of them fell off by medieval/renaissance times.
This post is my thoughts on the subject, trying to provoke you into an active discussion on these more or less esoteric categories/classifications :)

***

I’m talking about the following categories:
The list below uses Demetra George’s introduction to Hellenistic astrology book, Volume 1, chapter 10, pages 145-6.

-- Winged signs - Gemini, Virgo, Aquarius, Sagittarius.
I wonder, why not Libra, which is also an air sign. Virgo as the depiction of the virgo is often with wings, or as a double bodied sign it’s a maiden and a bird.
Also, am struggling in translating this category into ‘real world traits’ or horary applications.

-- Licentious signs - Aries, Taurus, Capricorn, Pisces, and Libra in part.
Aries, Taurus and Capricorn as they are Bestial probably, but why Pisces and part of Libra? Maybe because of the Venus association.
I suppose these signs are desirous of sex / high libido.

-- Lecherous or Lewd: Aries, Taurus, Leo, Capricorn in part [probably the first part, the goat], Pisces, and Libra (because the constellation of the Goat rises with it [Demetra’s words])
This list includes only Leo as an addition, in addition to the Licentious signs list.

-- Amphibious signs – Cancer and Capricorn
I think it’s clear why with Cancer and the goat being a sea-goat.
But how would we translate this category, or apply it, in practical astrology form? In our astrology practice, that is.

-- Broken, imperfect or mutilated (distortions of body and limbs): Taurus, Leo, Scorpio, Pisces, Capricorn, Cancer.
I think Lilly also used these as well. It has the bestial signs minus Aries and the Water signs.
Do you ever use that category? How did Lilly used it? I suppose he used it to diagnose physical blemishes.

-- Rough skinned, leprous, mangy or scurvy: Aries, Taurus, Cancer, Scorpio, Capricorn, Pisces
Same signs as above, only this time with Aries included.
Apparently, the air signs were considered ‘whole’ or ‘perfect’, in comparison.

-- Servile (sitting fatigued, slouched, and weariness of mind): Taurus, Libra, Capricorn, Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces.
Seems to be the water signs (cold blooded), plus Capricorn which is half fish, Taurus which is slow moving unless annoyed and Libra which is an inanimate object.
This category is interesting as it implies servitude, or laziness, or going with the flow, or all of these things.
Never saw a single astrologer using this classification.

-- Single form (keeping to an unshared estate): Aries, Taurus, Cancer, Leo, Libra, Scorpio, Aquarius.
This is in contrast to double bodied signs, but how should we approach it in interpretation? Maybe as just symbolizing one thing, in contrast to symbolizing two things.

-- Moderately fruitful: Taurus, Capricorn
-- Moderately Barren: Sagittarius, Aquarius
-- Unprolific (having few children): Aries, Taurus, Libra, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius
We know that the fruitful signs / fertile, are the water signs.
We also know that the barren signs are the Mercury ruled signs and Leo.
But we have these signs, in between.
The moderately fertile signs are Taurus which is Venus ruled (why not Libra, then), and Capricorn which is half aquatic (so fertility - water). My thoughts.
The moderately barren signs are Aquarius as it’s ruled by barren Saturn (cold & dry), and Sagittarius which is mildly surprising. Sag is ruled by Jupiter which is hot and wet, but maybe this is the case as Sag is a half breed (half man and half horse). What do you think?
The unprolific category is also a puzzle to me. It contains the bestial signs, the Saturn ruled signs, and Libra for some reason (maybe because it’s an inanimate object).

There are some additional categories, but this list is long enough and it contains most of the classifications already.

***

Some additional thoughts:
Would you consider Capricorn as a double bodied sign? This category seems to be all about the mutable signs, but Capricorn is half goat and half fish.
Would you consider the First part of Sagittarius to be humane/rational? If yes, then the contrast would be great between the first humane half and the second feral half.

Demetra George seems to be basing the list on different Hellenistic authors such as Valens, Rhetorius and Antiochus of Athens.

Cheers,
Dima.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Hi everyone,

I’m trying to delve deeper into the secondary traits of the signs (or classifications of zodiac signs).
I think that most people are familiar with the following categories:
Fertile, barren, bestial, feral, humane, double bodied and mute signs.
But there are other zodiac signs traits which are also mentioned in the tradition, and are less often discussed.
I think there were more classifications in the Hellenistic tradition, and some of them fell off by medieval/renaissance times.

:)I’m talking about the following categories:
The list below uses Demetra George’s introduction to Hellenistic astrology book, Volume 1, chapter 10, pages 145-6.
-- Winged signs - Gemini, Virgo, Aquarius, Sagittarius. I wonder, why not Libra, which is also an air sign. Virgo as the depiction of the virgo is often with wings, or as a double bodied sign it’s a maiden and a bird.

The image of the Water-Pourer is masculine, diurnal, solid, watery, human, servile, eloquent, semi-infertile.
The image of the Maiden is feminine, nocturnal, double-bodied, human, winged, common, eloquent, infertile, incomplete.
The image of the Archer is masculine, diurnal, double-bodied, terrestrial, human, quadrupedal, infertile, enigmatic, incomplete, with many limbs
The image of the Twins is masculine, diurnal, double-bodied, human, common, eloquent, semi-fertile


-- Licentious signs - Aries, Taurus, Capricorn, Pisces, and Libra in part.
Aries, Taurus and Capricorn as they are Bestial probably, but why Pisces and part of Libra? Maybe because of the Venus association.
I suppose these signs are desirous of sex / high libido.

The image of the Ram is masculine, diurnal, changeable, terrestrial, quadrupedal, vocal, semi-infertile, passionate, intimidating

-- Lecherous or Lewd: Aries, Taurus, Leo, Capricorn in part [probably the first part, the goat], Pisces, and Libra (because the constellation of the Goat rises with it [Demetra’s words]) This list includes only Leo as an addition, in addition to the Licentious signs list.

-- Amphibious signs – Cancer and Capricorn
I think it’s clear why with Cancer and the goat being a sea-goat.
But how would we translate this category, or apply it, in practical astrology form? In our astrology practice, that is.

The zodiac completes a sidereal cycle in 23.93446 hours.
The twelvefold circle has no beginning, but it is so-held to begin with Cancer :)


The image of the Crab is feminine, nocturnal, changeable, watery, amphibian, notable, silent, fertile, digging, with many limbs, two-coloured, rising backwards.

-- Broken, imperfect or mutilated (distortions of body and limbs): Taurus, Leo, Scorpio, Pisces, Capricorn, Cancer.
I think Lilly also used these as well. It has the bestial signs minus Aries and the Water signs.
Do you ever use that category? How did Lilly used it? I suppose he used it to diagnose physical blemishes.

The image of the Fishes is feminine, nocturnal, double-bodied, watery, oceanic, notable, silent, fertile, passionate, missing limbs

-- Rough skinned, leprous, mangy or scurvy: Aries, Taurus, Cancer, Scorpio, Capricorn, Pisces
Same signs as above, only this time with Aries included.
Apparently, the air signs were considered ‘whole’ or ‘perfect’, in comparison.

The image of the Goat-Horned One is feminine, nocturnal, changeable, watery, amphibian, servile, vocal, infertile, enigmatic, passionate, thievish, incomplete, missing limbs, two-natured

-- Servile (sitting fatigued, slouched, and weariness of mind): Taurus, Libra, Capricorn, Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces.
Seems to be the water signs (cold blooded), plus Capricorn which is half fish, Taurus which is slow moving unless annoyed and Libra which is an inanimate object.This category is interesting as it implies servitude, or laziness, or going with the flow, or all of these things.
Never saw a single astrologer using this classification.

The image of the Scorpion is feminine, nocturnal, solid, terrestrial, creeping, servile
silent, fertile, poisonous, unchangeable, fierce, thievish, with many limbs.

The image of the Bull is feminine, nocturnal, solid, terrestrial, quadrupedal, notable, vocal, semi-fertile, passionate, incomplete, missing limbs


-- Single form (keeping to an unshared estate): Aries, Taurus, Cancer, Leo, Libra, Scorpio, Aquarius.
This is in contrast to double bodied signs, but how should we approach it in interpretation? Maybe as just symbolizing one thing, in contrast to symbolizing two things.

The image of the Lion is masculine, diurnal, solid, terrestrial, quadrupedal, feral
vocal, semi-infertile, passionate, fierce

-- Moderately fruitful: Taurus, Capricorn
-- Moderately Barren: Sagittarius, Aquarius
-- Unprolific (having few children): Aries, Taurus, Libra, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius
We know that the fruitful signs / fertile, are the water signs.
We also know that the barren signs are the Mercury ruled signs and Leo.
But we have these signs, in between.

The image of the Scorpion is feminine, nocturnal, solid, terrestrial, creeping, servile
silent, fertile, poisonous, unchangeable, fierce, thievish, with many limbs.


The moderately fertile signs are Taurus which is Venus ruled (why not Libra, then), and Capricorn which is half aquatic (so fertility - water). My thoughts.
The moderately barren signs are Aquarius as it’s ruled by barren Saturn (cold & dry), and Sagittarius which is mildly surprising. Sag is ruled by Jupiter which is hot and wet, but maybe this is the case as Sag is a half breed (half man and half horse). What do you think?
The unprolific category is also a puzzle to me. It contains the bestial signs, the Saturn ruled signs, and Libra for some reason (maybe because it’s an inanimate object).
There are some additional categories, but this list is long enough and it contains most of the classifications already.


Some additional thoughts:
Would you consider Capricorn as a double bodied sign? This category seems to be all about the mutable signs, but Capricorn is half goat and half fish.

The image of the Goat-Horned One is feminine, nocturnal, changeable, watery
amphibian, servile, vocal, infertile, enigmatic, passionate, thievish, incomplete
missing limbs, two-natured.
Would you consider the First part of Sagittarius to be humane/rational? If yes, then the contrast would be great between the first humane half and the second feral half. Demetra George seems to be basing the list on different Hellenistic authors such as Valens, Rhetorius and Antiochus of Athens. Cheers,
Bibliography:
Ludwich, A. (Ed.). (1877). Maximi et Ammonis carminum De actionum auspiciis reliquiae: accedunt Anecdota astrologica. BG Teubneri. Retrieved from
https://archive.org/details/maximietammonisc00ludw/page/n3
Manilius, & Goold, G. P. (1985). Astronomica. BG Teubner.
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London.
Retrieved from
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/home.html
Schmidt, R. The Astrological Record of the Early Greek Sages. Project Hindsight.
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley.
Retrieved from
https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf


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JUPITERASC

Well-known member

SUMMARY :)
The zodiac completes a sidereal cycle in 23.93446 hours. The twelvefold circle has no beginning
but it is so-held to begin with Cancer.
The image of the Crab is feminine, nocturnal, changeable, watery, amphibian
notable, silent, fertile, digging, with many limbs, two-coloured, rising backwards.

The image of the Lion is masculine, diurnal, solid, terrestrial, quadrupedal, feral

vocal, semi-infertile, passionate, fierce.

The image of the Maiden is feminine, nocturnal, double-bodied, human, winged, common, eloquent, infertile, incomplete.

The image of the Scales is masculine, diurnal, changeable, human, semi-fertile.

The image of the Scorpion is feminine, nocturnal, solid, terrestrial, creeping, servile
silent, fertile, poisonous, unchangeable, fierce, thievish, with many limbs.

The image of the Archer is masculine, diurnal, double-bodied, terrestrial, human, quadrupedal, infertile, enigmatic, incomplete, with many limbs.

The image of the Goat-Horned One is feminine, nocturnal, changeable, watery
amphibian, servile, vocal, infertile, enigmatic, passionate, thievish, incomplete

missing limbs, two-natured.

The image of the Water-Pourer is masculine, diurnal, solid, watery, human, servile, eloquent, semi-infertile.

The image of the Fishes is feminine, nocturnal, double-bodied, watery, oceanic, notable, silent, fertile, passionate, missing limbs.

The image of the Ram is masculine, diurnal, changeable, terrestrial, quadrupedal, vocal, semi-infertile, passionate, intimidating.

The image of the Bull is feminine, nocturnal, solid, terrestrial, quadrupedal, notable, vocal, semi-fertile, passionate, incomplete, missing limbs.


The image of the Twins is masculine, diurnal, double-bodied, human, common, eloquent, semi-fertile.

Such, then, are the observations
of the effects of the stars as made by our predecessors


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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I accept them.
I'm just wondering, once you have these all down, how do you apply them to any readings? On a practical level.
Not questioning or doubting here.
there are multiple threads on this board with all the info :)
if really interested - two useful video on HELLENISTIC ASTROLOGY
for a Modernist guest requesting basic info :)







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