Will he give me another chance

dandelionnn

Well-known member
I'm posting a new chart instead, so don't pay attention to the question below in small text. I'm posting a different chart now though with a different question. The question is, why wont he give me my phone back? He went through it, he could at least bring it back to me. Is he just trying to give me a reason to come to him? is this because he still wants me. I don't understand.









FORMER QUESTION, DON'T ANSWER:
We got into a fight recently after we hung out. He's stubborn, being a Capricorn. So it's probably gonna take a lot of convincing and explaining on my part to get him to understand and just love instead of holding this silly grudge that started the fight. What will it take and how long until?
The only positive I see in this chart is Sun conjunct Mercury in reception (i think), does that mean he is willing to listen to me and what I have to say? Or will the following planets need to be one of our "significators" to mean something?
I'll add more of my thoughts later as I have to go to work right now.
 

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Vista

Well-known member
We got into a fight recently after we hung out. He's stubborn, being a Capricorn. So it's probably gonna take a lot of convincing and explaining on my part to get him to understand and just love instead of holding this silly grudge that started the fight. What will it take and how long until?
The only positive I see in this chart is Sun conjunct Mercury in reception (i think), does that mean he is willing to listen to me and what I have to say? Or will the following planets need to be one of our "significators" to mean something?
I'll add more of my thoughts later as I have to go to work right now.


The chart is not readable with Saturn in the 7th house. Give is some time and ask again.
 

tootsie

Well-known member
Hi, when the planet Saturn is placed in the 7th h the chart isn't readable. This is one of Lily's rules. He said even if an astrologer would delineate the chart he would probably give a wrong answer to the question.

I would ask again later after the full moon.
Cheers!
Tootsie
 

Artemia

Active member
Saturn in the 7th will not make a chart unfit to be judged, this is consideration against judgement and considerations has nothing to do with the radicallity of a chart, that is the role of the hour agreement. Considerations tells us something and also tells us proceed with caution.
 

misskitty

Well-known member
The chart isn't fit to be read. Saturn in the 7th says that the astrologer will error, or could mean that the chart is wrong, or that the querent has asked before. All of those possibilities make it dangerous for novice astrologers to proceed with reading the chart.

I would let the situation air out for a week or so and ask again.

Perhaps Artemia will read your chart since she disagrees.
 

dandelionnn

Well-known member
The chart isn't fit to be read. Saturn in the 7th says that the astrologer will error, or could mean that the chart is wrong, or that the querent has asked before. All of those possibilities make it dangerous for novice astrologers to proceed with reading the chart.

I would let the situation air out for a week or so and ask again.

Perhaps Artemia will read your chart since she disagrees.


Thank you. And I haven't asked this specific question before. I probably wont ask again, forget this guy. He disrespected me and I'm not gonna tolerate that. ON TO THE NEXT ONE.
 

misskitty

Well-known member
Good for you. Guys that make you beg for it or who try to make you "win" their love are really just losers who like to play games anyway. Good luck dandelionn.
 

Aquarius358

Well-known member
Thank you. And I haven't asked this specific question before. I probably wont ask again, forget this guy. He disrespected me and I'm not gonna tolerate that. ON TO THE NEXT ONE.

... And this chart certainly confirms this - Moon is separating from Venus ie you are separating from him. At the same time, Venus is separating from Mars - so he is separating from you.

Then there's Uranus on an angle with Moon applying to it so the chart is showing you would "change your mind."

You mentioned him as Sun - well, that's possible to use in a relationship question when Venus can be the other part of the "pair." Here, tho, Venus is the quesited's signifier and therefore can't be part of the pair of male and female. ___________
 

tootsie

Well-known member
Just for the record, Horary doesn't use the outer planets of Uranus, Neptune or Pluto. Also...here we have a moon @ 0 degrees.
Thanks for your interpretation....I wouldn't have done it with this chart.
Cheers!
T
 

Aquarius358

Well-known member
Tootsie - I know that beginner horary astrologers are not encouraged to use the outer planets and I would certainly never myself (or recommend others to) base a horary judgment on aspects that used the outer planets. It is recommended not to RELY on the outer planets. I haven't done that here.

However, I just point out that I am a well-practised and experienced horary astrologer, and I often find (like Olivia Barclay who revived Horary astrology with her book - and other really well known horary astrologer writers and practitioners) that the outer planets can and do add something to the "story" or description of a horary chart - especially and only especially - if they are on an angle. I would not use the Big Three in every interpretation - rarely using Neptune and Pluto but as an indicator of 'change of mind' and/or 'sudden change' Uranus on an angle is more often than not found to be of significance and in addition to what the chart already shows. ___________
 

Artemia

Active member
The chart isn't fit to be read. Saturn in the 7th says that the astrologer will error, or could mean that the chart is wrong, or that the querent has asked before. All of those possibilities make it dangerous for novice astrologers to proceed with reading the chart.

I would let the situation air out for a week or so and ask again.

Perhaps Artemia will read your chart since she disagrees.

That is why we call them ''cosiderations''' because you can proceed but with caution, a consideration will not make a chart unfit to be judjed but you need to becareful what you are reading and of course i wouldn't recomend a novice to read the chart with any of the coniderations.

In many astrological circles there is something called “strictures against judgement.” What this means is that certain horary charts, dependant on listed criteria, may not be judged. If we were to apply this, the majority of questions asked of the horary methodology would be deemed unfit to be judged.

It is forgotten by the astrological disciplines using these strictures that they are a modern invention, and not one handed down by the ancient authorities. The ancient authorities do list “considerations before judgement” which were developed to protect the astrologer, not the client.

Most astrologers in ancient times were advisors to men of extreme power, especially kings, and the astrologer needed a loophole if he saw something in the chart that would displease his benefactor, and thus place his own life in jeopardy. If the charts of the ancient authorities are studied instead, ignoring the considerations before judgement, it is apparent that these considerations were ignored when the client was not someone who could end the astrologer's life with one single order to his troops.

I will agree with Mr. Bob Zemco about the only reason a chart is unfit to be judge is when there is no hour agreement.
 
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tootsie

Well-known member
ok, since we are all on this subject what about the south node in the 1st h or on the ac. Any input? Of course, this chart didn't have the sn in the 1st h. But, in general from what I've seen the answer is no...don't read the chart. Dr. Far says it is a no go. So....what do you experts have to say about how to read a chart with this?
T
 
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Artemia

Active member
ok, since we are all on this subject what about the south node in the 1st h or on the ac. Any input? Of course, this chart didn't have the sn in the 1st h. But, in general from what I've seen the answer is no...don't read the chart. Dr. Far says it is a no go. So....what do you experts have to say about how to read a chart with this?
T

First of all, again it's a consideration, where it is says that considerations= chart unfit to be judged? Do not forget that the nodes is an axis, so why to take into cosnideration only the south node and not and the north? It's all analysed through the concept of the question.

Bonati never disregarded a chart as unfit when the south node was in the asc instead he would analyse from were the s impediment would come from from which area, to shed light to the nature of the obstacle. Christopher Warnock delineate a chart with south node in ascendant that means something but not unfit so is Radu and many others. Some prefer not to, but i do not consider it '''unfit''.

For example in a friend's relationship chart that south node was in the asc i considered it indication that she will be impended by her own actions, and so was true, she couldn't think straight and when teh time passed she said that if she had handle the situation differently nothing would have happened. For that chart she asked a payment reading and the astrologer told her the same thing about south node in the ascendant. Νorth Node was in 7th house and saturn was interfering in the sutuation, but the significators were applying a receiving trine by mutual application, the querent angular and quesited cadent- delays the outcome- what happened was due to her actions they broke up but they reunited 9 months after the break up. The guy said that she was giving meaning to his life ( north node).

While the south node has a quality of Saturn and Mars, that's too simplistic and not always helpful.

According to several traditional writers, the south node has the quality of decrease, and the north node has the quality of increase.

Since your question is about the south node, it tends to lessen good qualities but also lessen bad qualities. It's kind of like a black hole. If it's in the 1st, I'd consider it a debility but not necessarily a deal-breaker. It's a consideration. It's more notable when it's conjunct a planet. If it's conjunct Saturn it will make Saturn less bad, so it actually makes Saturn a bit nicer. When it's conjunct Jupiter, it tends to make Jupiter more malefic.

The nodes don't have rays so they don't cast aspects.

In your question, I'd consider the ruler of the relevant houses first and foremost. If a node is posited inside a relevant house, it's something to consider. In my experience it's more like icing on the cake rather than something that will change the entire outcome.

Quote:
Beware of men and things appertaining to that house wherein South Node is in; it seldome failes, but the Querent shall receive damage, scandall or slander from men and matter signified by the house he is in.


I often use this and have found it to be of great help..
Sometimes, of course, it happens that the house or even the ruler of the house in which the S.node is placed do not play a huge role in the chart at first sight but I have noticed that, many times when the Querent is facing different kind of obstacles or when (s)he cannot unravel the situation and find out where exactly the blockage is coming from, the position of the S.node can give some useful informations.
I believe that it is worth examining all the possible meanings of the house where it is placed and comparing them to other obvious signs of blockage/obstacle/outer influence. Assuming that the S.node has chosen to reside in a house that describes the origins of the troubles (where the damage is coming from), comparing the symbolics of that house with any other obvious sign of an obstacle or trouble shown in the chart might shed a much better light onto the whole situation. If the Moon looks "suspicious" and the S.node is placed inside the 10th, it might be suggesting that the Moon is most likely the mother because the damage is coming from the 10th (mother) . If it is the Sun that we think might be the ruler of "the troubles) and see the S.node inside the 10th- we might be taling about bosses or a boss, authorities etc. depending upon the nature of the situation of course.

'''''Or, suppose a querent or native wants to know how he or she will relate to servants or slaves or other hired help, and whether such subordinates will be useful. The Tail in the 6th house shows a scarcity of slaves, and that sorrow and discomfort will come to the native because of them. Again, this shows both a low quantity and low quality of the people signified by the house the Tail is in ''''

(as quoted by Ben Dykes, in the article above, Topic 3)

Someone that uses modern horary will delineate as thus, same for someone uses traditional or Ancara method will analyse as thus, but Ancara method is different in points from traditional and modern and traditional differs from modern etc... you can blend the methods if that fits to you after your own observations cause at the end is how it fits to you in your reading, too but as far as traditional horary concerns treats the considerations as considerations and not as a '' do not read the chart''', considerations indicate something but they are not indicate a chart that is not radical. The radicallity of a chart comes through hour agreement and mitigations of radicallity.

You can take a look at http://bendykes.com/articles/nodes.php
 
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misskitty

Well-known member
Yes Artemia, I am fully aware of the history of strictures and considerations, and I disagree with you. I will not interpret charts such as these because I don't think they are fit to be read.

[deleted, attackand pushing of the point removed - moderator]
 
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Neptune Rising

Well-known member
Can i remind everyone to get back to the topic of the thread. Also, each person has their own way of interpreting. Traditional horary doesnt use outers, while others may well do. Please accept these differences in each other and refrian from pushing one view onto another. Finally, keep the subject to astrology and steer clear from getting personal immediately.

NR
 

Artemia

Active member
Yes Artemia, I am fully aware of the history of strictures and considerations, and I disagree with you. I will not interpret charts such as these because I don't think they are fit to be read.

[deleted, attackand pushing of the point removed - moderator]

As i stated in my previous post.. someone can blend the methods if that fits to him after their own observations cause at the end is how it fits to you in your reading.
I respect your different point of view but at the end it is just different. I would diregard a chart as not radical only if it is not apply to hour agreement or it has not mitigations of radicality but i wouldn't consider a consideration = unfit, but this is my own point of view and what fits to me better.

I am not trying to push my point of view i am just stating my point of view through sources and quotations that's all, whether someone agrees or not that is respected.

I agree with NR the essense of this thread has nothing to do with the subject we are discussing,it just came up.
 
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misskitty

Well-known member
that's fine. The only way to learn is by experience, and my personal experience has taught me not to touch these types of charts (and to be very careful when I do). I would still like to hear your interpretation of the chart, and to say that is not attacking. It is how we learn from each other. If you are right in your interpretation, it will indeed be a learning tool.
 

dandelionnn

Well-known member
that's fine. The only way to learn is by experience, and my personal experience has taught me not to touch these types of charts (and to be very careful when I do). I would still like to hear your interpretation of the chart, and to say that is not attacking. It is how we learn from each other. If you are right in your interpretation, it will indeed be a learning tool.

Yes, I would like to hear Artemias interpretation on this chart, too. But I'm posting a new one instead. I'm posting a different chart now though with a different question. The question is, why wont get give me my phone back? He went through it, he could at least bring it back to me. Is he just trying to give me a reason to come to him? is this because he still wants me. I don't understand.
 

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akp124

Well-known member
Please excuse my language but, if he's not giving your phone back, then he's being a d***.

I do not know how to interpret charts very well and if I try this one, I wll surely be wrong. But, looking at the situation from a woman's POV:

You need to go and get your phone back without giving him a chance to try to talk to you. Or you could just go to the police and report your phone stolen and you know who has it.
 
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