Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

obsidianmineral

Well-known member
I mean, just recently I understood the energy of Jupiter and therefore why Jupiter rules Pisces and Sagittarius, but what about Saturn?


Jupiter is like someone that wants to be optimistic and be generous. Jupiter believes that everyone should grow, that everyone should be rich and happy. This is why it's also related to justice, since Jupiter thinks that's justice. And it is. Everyone should be respected and everyone should have the same rights. Jupiter is a very progressive planet. This humanitarian side of Jupiter is related more to the Pisces energy, since Pisces is feels pity for the poverty of the world and feels compassion for everyone. So to be brief, Jupiter has two sides: Optimism and justice/being humanitarian. Optimism --> Sagittarius. Humanitarian and pity --> Pisces.

Buuut, isn't Aquarius also humanitarian? Shouldn't Jupiter rule that sign? Exactly why is Saturn in rulership when in Aquarius? Maybe it's related to the fact that Saturn wants to get to work on things and wants to slowly build its way toward high positions and therefore is serving society? I don't know... Maybe Jupiter isn't aloof like Aquarius and that's why it doesn't rule that sign.



Honestly, Uranus and Neptune seem to fit better as Aquarius and Pisces' rulers
 

AppLeo

Well-known member
Well obviously back then Neptune and Uranus didn't exist, so Aquarius had to be given some planet for it to be ruled by. Now that we live in the modern age I think it totally makes sense that Uranus now rules over Aquarius.

I think Saturn rules over Aquarius because, like you said, Aquarius is a detached and aloof sign. Saturn is a cold planet so it only makes sense.

I also think Saturn rules over Aquarius because Saturn is like the opposite of the Sun. The Sun rules over Leo. What's the opposite sign of Leo? Aquarius. So it only makes sense that Aquarius would be ruled by Saturn.
 

obsidianmineral

Well-known member
Well obviously back then Neptune and Uranus didn't exist, so Aquarius had to be given some planet for it to be ruled by. Now that we live in the modern age I think it totally makes sense that Uranus now rules over Aquarius.

I think Saturn rules over Aquarius because, like you said, Aquarius is a detached and aloof sign. Saturn is a cold planet so it only makes sense.

I also think Saturn rules over Aquarius because Saturn is like the opposite of the Sun. The Sun rules over Leo. What's the opposite sign of Leo? Aquarius. So it only makes sense that Aquarius would be ruled by Saturn.

I get that it's related to the fact that Aquarius happens at probably one of the coldest times of the year, therefore it has to be a cool sign, and therefore, it's aloof and dettached, and therefore some cold planet has to rule it... buuuuuut, that really doesn't explain exactly how Saturn is related to Aquarius. Isn't Aquarius supposed to be communicative? I don't exaclty imagine Saturn being communicative at all, actually. I think Saturn is a planet that could be represented by a quiet, bitter old man that only cares about working and following a routine that tries to teach their grandchildren the hard lessons of life or something along those lines.
 

Freya39

Well-known member
I mean, just recently I understood the energy of Jupiter and therefore why Jupiter rules Pisces and Sagittarius, but what about Saturn?


Jupiter is like someone that wants to be optimistic and be generous. Jupiter believes that everyone should grow, that everyone should be rich and happy. This is why it's also related to justice, since Jupiter thinks that's justice. And it is. Everyone should be respected and everyone should have the same rights. Jupiter is a very progressive planet. This humanitarian side of Jupiter is related more to the Pisces energy, since Pisces is feels pity for the poverty of the world and feels compassion for everyone. So to be brief, Jupiter has two sides: Optimism and justice/being humanitarian. Optimism --> Sagittarius. Humanitarian and pity --> Pisces.

Buuut, isn't Aquarius also humanitarian? Shouldn't Jupiter rule that sign? Exactly why is Saturn in rulership when in Aquarius? Maybe it's related to the fact that Saturn wants to get to work on things and wants to slowly build its way toward high positions and therefore is serving society? I don't know... Maybe Jupiter isn't aloof like Aquarius and that's why it doesn't rule that sign.




Love the way you described Jupiter!
Saturn rules Aquarius. Symbolically, I think Saturn lessons put us in a higher position. We can achieve things if we will organize our life, if we will put effort and time. Then, Aquarius is a sign of individuality, allowing us to work individually for society. But in order to do this we need discipline, and nevertheless we need separation. Therefore, there is a transitions from Saturn to Uranus.
Moreover, if we want to extend the limits, and not accumulate our saturnine lessons, then we may become rebels. On the other hand, if we will do our duties, then we may become unique, original, extravagant, abstract.

Additionally under Saturn stage, we are already mature. (the zone/ the house which Saturn rules). Here we learn how to have disruption and connect at a group level, where personal things and social relationship serve us as tools, only to progress our level of evolution. Even if things will change, close people will disappear from our lives, we still have to keep going and understand our real meaning in life. We need to acknowledge the new changes, to accept and to learn how to live with them.
If we fail to make or to accept new changes, they will be forced upon us under the influence of Uranus, the next level. We need to share our knowledge and love others free of benefits. Our energy and impulse should be for the group not for personal growth, only. We need to appreciate our blessings and willingly share them with other people. In other words we are supposed to be more altruistic, more considerate and to show compassion toward others. Uranus changes our self-meaning, force us to leave behind all life tools, making us rebels, with new life ways, as not all of us willingly make changes. We stay under Uranus influence until our mind can connect to a higher intelligence.
 

AppLeo

Well-known member
I see what you mean.

Aquarius energy isn't easy though. They're the sign that is rebellious because maybe they have lots of restrictions on them. They're the sign that takes the road less traveled. They're very serious and detached like Saturn. Aquarius is the 11th sign of the zodiac. 11 is a master number. To have a master number means that you need to be responsible (Saturn). Capricorn is clearly a Saturn sign. I think the difference between Capricorn and Aquarius is that Capricorn has a responsibility and duty to the self, while Aquarius has a responsibility and duty to the community. Maybe Aquarius is just the masculine energy to Saturn. Similar to how Gemini is the masculine energy to Mercury. Masculine energy is more open and communicative.

You can totally disagree with me, but that's my opinion.
 

obsidianmineral

Well-known member
Love the way you described Jupiter!
Saturn rules Aquarius. Symbolically, I think Saturn lessons put us in a higher position. We can achieve things if we will organize our life, if we will put effort and time. Then, Aquarius is a sign of individuality, allowing us to work individually for society. But in order to do this we need discipline, and nevertheless we need separation. Therefore, there is a transitions from Saturn to Uranus.
Moreover, if we want to extend the limits, and not accumulate our saturnine lessons, then we may become rebels. On the other hand, if we will do our duties, then we may become unique, original, extravagant, abstract.

Additionally under Saturn stage, we are already mature. (the zone/ the house which Saturn rules). Here we learn how to have disruption and connect at a group level, where personal things and social relationship serve us as tools, only to progress our level of evolution. Even if things will change, close people will disappear from our lives, we still have to keep going and understand our real meaning in life. We need to acknowledge the new changes, to accept and to learn how to live with them.
If we fail to make or to accept new changes, they will be forced upon us under the influence of Uranus, the next level. We need to share our knowledge and love others free of benefits. Our energy and impulse should be for the group not for personal growth, only. We need to appreciate our blessings and willingly share them with other people. In other words we are supposed to be more altruistic, more considerate and to show compassion toward others. Uranus changes our self-meaning, force us to leave behind all life tools, making us rebels, with new life ways, as not all of us willingly make changes. We stay under Uranus influence until our mind can connect to a higher intelligence.

Thank you too! I understood Jupiter the other day by trying to be more optimistic about something in my life. I ended up feeling closer to the energy of Jupiter.

Oh, and I get it now. Saturn is at its best in Aquarius since it tells us to focus on the "bigger purpose" side? It is true that if you manage to dominate your habits and you manage to be truly disciplined and responsible you start separating yourself from others and start to become unique. So it seems that Saturn takes on a more karmic and spiritual side when in Aquarius, huh?


However, I didn't get the "if we want to extend the limits, and not accumulate our saturnine lessons, then we may become rebels", could you explain that to me once more, please?
 

Oddity

Well-known member
Saturn is the furthest traditional planet from the sun. In the western astrological mythos, God put lights in the sky as signs for us. I suppose that God, being the utterly sadistic ******* that he is, might have made some of those signs invisible. Or not. So much for the outers.

But anyway. The sun rules Leo. Saturn rules Aquarius because it's furthest from the sun, and the coldest planet. Aquarius is rigid, cold, dogmatic, impersonal - that seems to fit Saturnian energy pretty well. Saturn diametrically opposes the sun, which also makes sense here.

That's the actual why in trad astrology.
 

Holist

Well-known member
Both Aquarius and Cap value structures and systems. Cap wants materialism, reputation, and wealth. Aq wants structures that are impersonal and without a profit motive. Both are into authority, but Cap authority is based on status, whose judgments are rooted in efficiency and function. Aq on the other hand judges structures based on intellect, principles and ideas. So Cap is kind of like the judge and efficiency monitor of the material world whereas Aq does it more on the conceptual plane. Caps change their judgments when better efficiency models are introduced, whereas Aq change their judgments when things fit into their mental systems.

Aq affects human systems in a more broad, diffuse way... an 11th house way. Networks, collectives, information connections. Cap is more concerned with material exchanges. A corporate exec is a good symbol for Cap, whereas the dean of a university would be a good Aq one.

In esoteric astrology, the higher purpose of Cap is to transcend personal gain and begin to transmit the Divine purpose into material systems, through their top-level access to human hierarchies. That is how Cap's Saturn remakes the world. Aq on the other hand has to transcend its mental fixations about "correct knowledge" so that human knowledge can be fairly accessed by everyone transparently. The internet is an example of an Aquarian Age technology... it has democratized all knowledge. Nobody holds all the books.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Both Aquarius and Cap value structures and systems. Cap wants materialism, reputation, and wealth. Aq wants structures that are impersonal and without a profit motive. Both are into authority, but Cap authority is based on status, whose judgments are rooted in efficiency and function. Aq on the other hand judges structures based on intellect, principles and ideas. So Cap is kind of like the judge and efficiency monitor of the material world whereas Aq does it more on the conceptual plane. Caps change their judgments when better efficiency models are introduced, whereas Aq change their judgments when things fit into their mental systems.

Aq affects human systems in a more broad, diffuse way... an 11th house way. Networks, collectives, information connections. Cap is more concerned with material exchanges. A corporate exec is a good symbol for Cap, whereas the dean of a university would be a good Aq one.

In esoteric astrology, the higher purpose of Cap is to transcend personal gain and begin to transmit the Divine purpose into material systems, through their top-level access to human hierarchies. That is how Cap's Saturn remakes the world. Aq on the other hand has to transcend its mental fixations about "correct knowledge" so that human knowledge can be fairly accessed by everyone transparently. The internet is an example of an Aquarian Age technology... it has democratized all knowledge. Nobody holds all the books.

Really sorry to have to disagree, but [IMO] the internet itself is Mercurial and Capricornian, all about communication, commerce and materialistic matters. Aquarian knowledge is of a more cosmic nature. I understand where the idea that modern technology is Aquarian is from: It's an incorrect conclusion drawn from the Sidereal Age of Aquarius concept, and very poorly thought out. [Again, IMO, and no offense meant.]
 
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Cap

Well-known member
I mean, just recently I understood the energy of Jupiter and therefore why Jupiter rules Pisces and Sagittarius, but what about Saturn?


Jupiter is like someone that wants to be optimistic and be generous. Jupiter believes that everyone should grow, that everyone should be rich and happy. This is why it's also related to justice, since Jupiter thinks that's justice. And it is. Everyone should be respected and everyone should have the same rights. Jupiter is a very progressive planet. This humanitarian side of Jupiter is related more to the Pisces energy, since Pisces is feels pity for the poverty of the world and feels compassion for everyone. So to be brief, Jupiter has two sides: Optimism and justice/being humanitarian. Optimism --> Sagittarius. Humanitarian and pity --> Pisces.

Buuut, isn't Aquarius also humanitarian? Shouldn't Jupiter rule that sign? Exactly why is Saturn in rulership when in Aquarius? Maybe it's related to the fact that Saturn wants to get to work on things and wants to slowly build its way toward high positions and therefore is serving society? I don't know... Maybe Jupiter isn't aloof like Aquarius and that's why it doesn't rule that sign.



Honestly, Uranus and Neptune seem to fit better as Aquarius and Pisces' rulers

In order to understand why, research Thema Mundi

thema_mundi.jpg


Every planet (except lights, Sun and Moon) has its active, masculine, diurnal sign and its passive, feminine, nocturnal sign. As Oddity already mentioned, order of planets is determined by distance from the Sun. This also explains the nature of aspects. Venus (lesser benefic) forms sextile with Sun and Moon, Mars (lesser malefic) forms square with Sun and Moon, Jupiter (greater benefic) forms trine with Sun and Moon and Saturn (greater malefic) forms opposition with Sun and Moon.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member

Really sorry to have to disagree, but [IMO]
No need to apologise for having your own opinion
the internet itself is Mercurial and Capricornian, all about communication, commerce and materialistic matters.
Obviously the internet relates to communication
It's a matter of opinion whether the internet is solely materialistic :smile:
Much that is non-materialistic is communicated on the internet

Aquarian knowledge is of a more cosmic nature.
I understand where the idea that modern technology is Aquarian is from:
It's an incorrect conclusion drawn from the Sidereal Age of Aquarius concept,
and very poorly thought out. [Again, IMO, and no offense meant.]
 

Frisiangal

Well-known member
Well obviously back then Neptune and Uranus didn't exist, so Aquarius had to be given some planet for it to be ruled by. Now that we live in the modern age I think it totally makes sense that Uranus now rules over Aquarius.

I think Saturn rules over Aquarius because, like you said, Aquarius is a detached and aloof sign. Saturn is a cold planet so it only makes sense.

I also think Saturn rules over Aquarius because Saturn is like the opposite of the Sun. The Sun rules over Leo. What's the opposite sign of Leo? Aquarius. So it only makes sense that Aquarius would be ruled by Saturn.

???:w00t:

You think that Uranus and Neptune are but a few hundred years old???:w00t:

You're always very quick to respond to posts, yet tend to express personal opinions that may not Always be based upon authentic astronomical/
astrological fact. Maybe a little pre-research would help?

The outer planets and those far beyond have been there since the solar system was undergoing its creation millions upon millions of years ago. They were in astrology's youth simply not visible to the naked eye; a reason that its traditional lore does not include them and is only based upon 'the big 7'.

I'm surprised that Jupiter Asc. has not offered his knowledge to the question, and no one seems to have mentioned that the big 7 get their rulerships from the traditional lore; clockwise from Moon's rulership of Cancer(tribal) and anti-clockwise from Sun's rulership of Leo(individual), in the order Mercury-Venus-Mars-Jupiter-Saturn.

To OP's query regarding Saturn's rulership of Aquarius, it does so through its 'internal' affiliation with the Moon. Aquarius is associated with so-called 'intuition'. Yet what is intuition? It's presumably knowing without knowing how and why. With Saturn as ruler Aquarius serving the Moon, all experiences that stimulate/are stimulated by others are stored away and archived for future reference in Aquarius. Ideas may arise as 'aha' moments but we may simply be recogitating what we once learned, knew, and had temporarily forgotten existed. Think of archeology....digging up and categorising past lifetimes....and ruled by Aquarius. Feelings that arise as 'intuition' may have been learned earlier through experiences that gave them un-subconscious form. (E.g. never make the same mistake twice.:wink:)

Saturn serving the Sun through Capricorn is purely egotistical of nature, seeking personal status and name. It is not governed by/through others but is strictly societal in the climb to the top.

Saturn of Moon works through the influence of feelings towards others,
Saturn of Sun works through the influence of creative Ego.

[ And I'm not even a traditionalist.:biggrin:]
 

waybread

Staff member
Folks, it works like this.

Think about planets' distance from the sun. Read down the left-hand column and up the right-hand column for traditional planetary sign rulerships. Ptolemy (ca. 150 CE) standardized the following scheme, even if he didn't invent it:

sun= Leo................moon=Cancer (summer solstice)
Mercury=Virgo........Mercury=Gemini
Venus=Libra...........Venus=Taurus
Mars=Scorpio.........Mars=Aries
Jupiter=Sagittarius..Jupiter=Pisces
Saturn=Capricorn....Saturn=Aquarius

Basically by the time you get to the signs of Capricorn and Aquarius, Saturn has to do for two. Capricorn=the sign beginning at the winter solstice.

Note also that each planet rules one feminine, nocturnal sign (water, earth; ) and one masculine diurnal sign (air, fire.)

It really doesn't have much to do with the static personality traits that modern astrology today associates with sun-signs. The system is much older.
 
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waybread

Staff member
The modern outer planets were first discovered when western astrology went through its Dark Age, in the 18th and 19th century. By 1930, when Pluto was discovered, astrology was on the rise again, but as a reformulated modern astrology that began roughly around 1900. Traditional western astrology's renaissance didn't get underway till about 1990.

There were, however, a few traditional western astrologers at work during the 18th and 19th centuries. One of the earlier ones declared Uranus to be malefic, which made it seem a lot like Saturn. He gave Uranus Saturn's essential dignities in the sign of Aquarius. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/ur_aq.html

Neptune was then assigned to the next zodiacal sign, Pisces.

When Pluto came on board, some astrologers thought that it should belong to the next sign, Aries. But modern astrologers working with Pluto thought that it fit better with Scorpio.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
In order to understand why,
research
Thema Mundi

Thanks Cap
for clarity,

the following image is THEMA MUNDI


thema_mundi.jpg



THEMA MUNDI image above ILLUSTRATES THE FOLLOWING POINTS :smile:




Every planet
(except lights, Sun and Moon)
has its active, masculine, diurnal sign
and its passive, feminine, nocturnal sign.

As Oddity already mentioned,
order of planets is determined by distance from the Sun.

This also explains the nature of aspects.
Venus (lesser benefic) forms sextile with Sun and Moon,
Mars (lesser malefic) forms square with Sun and Moon,
Jupiter (greater benefic) forms trine with Sun and Moon
and
Saturn (greater malefic) forms opposition with Sun and Moon.
 

AppLeo

Well-known member
???:w00t:

You think that Uranus and Neptune are but a few hundred years old???:w00t:

You're always very quick to respond to posts, yet tend to express personal opinions that may not Always be based upon authentic astronomical/
astrological fact. Maybe a little pre-research would help?

The outer planets and those far beyond have been there since the solar system was undergoing its creation millions upon millions of years ago. They were in astrology's youth simply not visible to the naked eye; a reason that its traditional lore does not include them and is only based upon 'the big 7'.

That's not what I meant. I meant to say that traditional astrologers didn't know that Uranus or Neptune existed, so they needed to pick another planet for Aquarius.
 

david starling

Well-known member
That's not what I meant. I meant to say that traditional astrologers didn't know that Uranus or Neptune existed, so they needed to pick another planet for Aquarius.

If a Planet orbits the Sun, and no one's there who can see it, does it have an Astrological effect?
According to a very reliably Fake News source, the outer Planets DON'T really exist--they're just holograms embedded in those fancy telescopes!
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
That's not what I meant.

I meant to say that traditional astrologers didn't know that Uranus or Neptune existed,
so they needed to pick another planet for Aquarius.
Ancient astrologers were also astronomers and mathematicians :smile:
who literally personally observed their local skies
generation after generation
for thousands of years
as a consequence
those ancient astrologers arranged planetary rulerships as illustrated by THEMA MUNDI
Cap just highlighted :smile:



THEMA MUNDI

thema_mundi.jpg
 

waybread

Staff member
The Thema Mundi was not based on observation, but on an idealized scheme of the heavens. Empirically Venus is never more than 48 degrees from the sun, but in this stylized chart it is 60 degrees away.

Even so, the odds of getting all of the planets in perfect 30-degree arcs from their neighbours at 15 degrees of their signs, and all in those house positions, is about nil.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thema_Mundi
 
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