Why does astrology work?

krazykikikat

New member
This is a broad question, I know, and I'm not really asking you to answer it. Basically what I want is two things...

First, if a layman asked you this question (perhaps someone who was skeptical of astrology), how would you answer it simply and convincingly?

And second, if I actually wanted to gain a complete understanding of... I dunno, is it quantum physics, mixed with astronomy and some kind of particle science?
I'm not very scientifically oriented unfortunately... astrology is the only science I've consented to study on my own. Over the years I've experienced how accurate birth charts can be, and I'm finally ready to embark on the arduous journey of finding out WHY.

Another question occurs to me... does anyone even know? Is this a question we believe has been satisfactorily answered, or are there only many theories?
Either way, I'd appreciate a simple explanation and some recommendations for heavier reading. :biggrin:
 

Earth Sign

Well-known member
One of the more educational arguments I've heard:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=22706&postcount=22

One of the members here, BobZemco, also has evidence he's been toting. (I hope you don't mind the bump, Bob) Here's a quote from Bob off of one of the skeptic's threads.

BobZemco said:
From Dear Astrologers

Anyway, if you want scientific evidence, you can start here (the first is a peer-reviewed scientific journal while the second is an industry publication):

Nelson, John H. "Planetary Position Effect on Short Wave Signal Quality." Electrical Engineering 71, no. 5 ((May 1952): 421-24.

"Shortwave Radio Propagation Correlation with Planetary Positions. " RCA Review 12 (March 1951): 26-34.

To summarize briefly, the aspects formed by the original Planets (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn) have a direct affect on shortwave radio signals on Earth. When those Planets are in "hard" aspects (conjunction, square or opposition) the effects are negative, and when they are in "soft" aspects (the trine and sextile) the effects on shortwave radio signals are positive.

In other words, hard aspects degrade, hamper or block shortwave radio signals, while soft aspects do not interfere or actually enhance shortwave radio signals.

Shortwave radio signals are part of the electro-magnetic spectrum, the EM Spectrum. The human body has EM properties, in particular the brain. In fact, the human body has need of metals and minerals that conduct or enhance EM waves (as noted by Nobel Prize winners Watson and Crick who discovered DNA).

Because the interaction of the Planets does affect the EM Spectrum, it is not a "leap of faith" to suggest that the Planets also affect the human body, especially the brain, since both have EM properties.

I would point out that long wave radio communications are also impacted, but not severely affected, because the nature of long wave radio signals allows them to tolerate interference much better (which is why FM signal radio reception is always better than AM --shortwave-- radio signal reception and the UHF band at the high end has better reception that the UHF band at the low end of the spectrum and the same is true for VHF signals).

There have been quite a few threads started on this subject, I don't know how many of them are still in existence.
 

krazykikikat

New member
Thank you, Earth Sign, that's very helpful. :D I'll be sure to check out those articles too.

And Sugar, I wasn't implying that I look down on people who don't believe or anything. Astrology gets a bad rap in Western civilizations these days, I don't blame them for just believing what everyone seems to say -- that astrology is just superstition.
It's just that when people learn I study astrology, half of them scoff, and half of them are interested. In either situation, I'd like to be able to tell them about the sciences behind it, in a way that will make sense to someone who's never studied it before.
And of course I'd like to have a better understanding just for myself as well.

I have heard some things about Cayce. I definitely think I should read his works, though I may approach them with a critical eye. There's not many things I take on faith, I am a truth-seeker. ;)

Thank you both for the help. :)
 

krazykikikat

New member
And oh, I forgot...

What I (practically) tell people when this issue comes up it:

"You don't have to believe in the stars for them to believe in you - they believe in you regardless."

For some reason, this statement both throws and impresses people enough to proceed. The words are an euphemism. What the statement actually says is that a person IS AFFECTED by astrology even if they don't believe in it.

Cheers,
Sven

Hmm I might try that line. I'm afraid it might make me sound a little... crazy though. Haha. Then again, no more crazy than Christians who say the same thing about God to me...
 

cowtreat

Well-known member
That whole shortwave radio mumbo jumbo can't be it. Radio Stations all over the world pump out the stuff like crazy. The radio stations waves are much more powerful than the planets or we wouldn't hear them.
 

HoldOrFold

Well-known member
I believe astrology works through synchronicity, where the planets do not cause things to happen per say but are reflections of things going on in a deeper level of ourselves and our connection with our environment. I'm not going to claim to understand it, but I'd say that's a good place to start to understand rather than trying to find out how the physical objects affect us.

All this radio wave stuff doesn't hit it home for me. Think about it for a few moments and you can begin to grasp the level this stuff operates on. How can a Jupiter transit make you more likely to win on a lottery draw etc. with radio waves? How would these radio waves know the numbers you picked for the draw and how would it then interact with the numbers coming out of the lottery machine? This is just an example, I'm sure you can think of thousands of more examples where radio waves do not answer anything.

I suggest that if you can understand how synchronicity operates then you can begin understating how astrology works. You won't get any brownie points from scientists though :)


*edit* I recommend reading the this link: The Mystery of Chance

Here's an excerpt:

"Implicit in Jung's concept of synchronicity is the belief in the ultimate "oneness" of the universe…"
Jung discovered the synchronicity within the I Ching also extended to astrology. In a letter to Freud dated June 12, 1911, he wrote: "My evenings are taken up largely with astrology. I make horoscopic calculations in order to find a clue to the core of psychological truth. Some remarkable things have turned up which will certainly appear incredible to you...I dare say that we shall one day discover in astrology a good deal of knowledge that has been intuitively projected into the heavens."


[edited quote over 100 words against forum rules - Moderator]
 
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BobZemco

Well-known member
That whole shortwave radio mumbo jumbo can't be it. Radio Stations all over the world pump out the stuff like crazy. The radio stations waves are much more powerful than the planets or we wouldn't hear them.

[deleted attacking comment - Moderator] Nobody can hear radio waves, for the same reason no one can hear radar or colors or gamma radiation.

Radio waves are modulated, amplified and processed through a filter, and then converted into electronic pulses which drive a magnet and vibrate a fabric cone, commonly called a "speaker," and that produces sound waves, which one can hear, provided one is within range.

And if you had worked as a sound engineer at a television station as I did, or operated radio equipment to call aircraft and artillery fires on targets, you'd know that communications are sometimes severely degraded by the local environment, jamming, weather and the effects of the Planets.


All this radio wave stuff doesn't hit it home for me. Think about it for a few moments and you can begin to grasp the level this stuff operates on. How can a Jupiter transit make you more likely to win on a lottery draw etc. with radio waves?

Electromagnetic energy, not radio waves. Electromagnetic energy interferes with radio waves. Nobody said Jupiter exhibits radio waves.

How would these radio waves know the numbers you picked for the draw and how would it then interact with the numbers coming out of the lottery machine? This is just an example, I'm sure you can think of thousands of more examples where radio waves do not answer anything.

Again, it's electromagnetic energy, not radio waves. Jupiter (and the others) do not transmit radio waves, they transmit electromagnetic energy over a wide spectrum and it interferes with radio waves in a certain spectrum, and because it does we can detect the interference.

The burden of proof is on you, and you're going to need about $1 Million and 18 months of your time running the tests to disprove what has already been repeatedly proven over the last 60 years by universities, the military (in any number of countries), NASA, and corporations who are involved in communications, like Motorola, General Electric, Hughes, Siemens, Alcatel et al.

I suggest that if you can understand how synchronicity operates then you can begin understating how astrology works. You won't get any brownie points from scientists though

"Implicit in Jung's concept of synchronicity is the belief in the ultimate "oneness" of the universe. As Jung expressed it, such phenomenon betrays a "peculiar interdependence of objective elements among themselves as well as with the subjective (psychic) states of the observer or observers."

Jung and Freud didn't know their heads from a pile of dung, not that it matters, you still need a medium of transference, and electromagnetic energy cast off by certain Planets would be it.
 
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cowtreat

Well-known member
[deleted response to attacking comment - Moderator] I'm just saying that if the planets historically had any effect on us, the radio waves produced by transmitters are multiple times stronger so those would overshadow any effect the planets have.

If any wavelength had an effect on us, it would be microwave. It has the same frequency as water which is mostly what we are made of. We are being hit by the microwave light because after the big bang, when light was able to escape, it has been travelling 13.5 billion years. As we have been travelling away from it at the same time, it has been redshifted to microwaves now.

Has anyone in Astrology looked at how the Cosmic microwave background effects us?
 
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LionLady

Well-known member
[deleted response to attacking comment - Moderator] I'm just saying that if the planets historically had any effect on us, the radio waves produced by transmitters are multiple times stronger so those would overshadow any effect the planets have.

The reason you can "pick up" transmissions from radio or tv stations is because you have a piece of equipment that is "tuned in" to the particular frequency on which they are broadcasting. And because the waystations (transmitters) local to you are boosting that particular signal when they pass them on. Nothing (or very little) to do with the relative strength of the original signals.

Think about radio astronomy. If your premise was correct radio astronomy would not work.

What Bob is saying is that the electromagnetic energy from any given planet interferes with the radio waves that the tv/radio etc transmissions are also riding on and therefore it can be detected if you have a broad spectrum receiver. There are huge sections of the spectrum from infra-red to ultra-violet that we don't tune in to unless we have a specific requirement for it. So we don't see/notice the interference from any other sources.

BTW - do you remember the old style radios with dials you had to turn to tune in to the various stations? What do you think the "static" was that you got between stations?

Lionlady
:whistling:
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
Here are some of the best studies regarding the question about "how"...all are available either at Amazon books or at astroamerica.com

-Essays on Astrology: R. Hand
-Astrology as a Science, a statistical approach: Urban-Lurain
-The Spindle of Meaning: R Harvey
-The Cosmic Loom: Elwell
-Sun/Earth/Man: Landscheidt
-Matrix of Creation, sacred geometry in the realm of the planets: Richard Heath
-Sacred Number and the origins of civilization: Richard Heath
-Sun, Moon and Earth: Robin Heath
 

HoldOrFold

Well-known member
The burden of proof is on you, and you're going to need about $1 Million and 18 months of your time running the tests to disprove what has already been repeatedly proven over the last 60 years by universities, the military (in any number of countries), NASA, and corporations who are involved in communications, like Motorola, General Electric, Hughes, Siemens, Alcatel et al.

Of course I'm not doubting the existence electromagnetic energy. I don't want to take away from your theory, infact it's pretty interesting. But nobody's explaining how this interacts with events on earth to produce astrological phenomena.

Jung and Freud didn't know their heads from a pile of dung

Freud was a moron, agreed. But I respect Jung, even though his name rhymes with dung.
 

cowtreat

Well-known member
I can't believe that "Of course you can't hear light" is considered offensive. I'm really sorry if it was interpreted that way. The last thing I want to do is attack someone personally.

He just misunderstood that when I said "hear", I meant through a radio. Maybe all of the questions I ask are a bit frustrating but it's frustrating for me too. When I ask simple questions, I get answers like "read a book".
 

cowtreat

Well-known member
BTW - do you remember the old style radios with dials you had to turn to tune in to the various stations? What do you think the "static" was that you got between stations?
:whistling:

I saw a BBC show called "Everything and Nothing". It said that when you tune to a station that just gives you snowy fuzz, 1% of that is coming from the cosmic microwave background.

I meta guy who said he had a amateur radio telescope and he would listen to Jupiter and the sun. But this is also where the theory brakes down. He could only hear Jupiter in between 1 and 4am because of interference from wireless computers and all kinds of other stuff people use when they are awake.

Man that's cool. If I had a little more yard for the 5m antenna, I would totally geek out and get one.
 

HoldOrFold

Well-known member
It's all very interesting re: electromagnetic energy.

However I would love someone to explain how this could interact with humans, cities, countries etc. to the point of not only determining personality traits but also timing of events and the organization of physical situations.

For instance, think of mundane astrology and the charts of countries. The charts for these countries is for when some made made ritual declared it a country. How will the electromagnetic energy then interact with this countries chart? How does this energy discriminate when this country was born? etc.

This is what I mean by the electromagnetic energy doesn't answer it for me. I'm not doubting the planets exert electromagnetic energy.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
In my own little hypothesis (which has changed with new data, and could change again with more new data), I consider the electromagnetic component a secondary one, which (in my view) has more of a physical-level influence (probably more of an informational input rather than any kind of direct "force" or similar effect) I won't go into my "main" hypothetical ideas here because they are too extensive and require a prior understanding of things like universal cybernetics, zero point energy, so called "dark energy/dark matter", and a full philosophical grasp of the Paracelsic macrocosm/microcosm outlook, and, yes, synchronicity too, but I do believe that the electromagnetic specturm does have some "influences" relative to "astrology" (possibly via transduction to the bio-energetic field of living beings, see for instance, Robert Becker's "Cross Currents", for information about the electroamgnetic bio-energetic field of living beings, especially of humans)
 
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HoldOrFold

Well-known member
Yes, synchronicity is a reflection of the macrocosm/microcosm outlook. It really is quite profound when you plunge into subjective reality, synchronicity then is all around you and you are at the center of it. You begin to see how the outer world reflects your inner state which can be quite perplexing actually when you're immersed in it. Mastering the "Law of Attraction" is a good way to produce synchronetic phenomena.

I've read about zero point energy and dark-matter but I've never heard of universal cybernetics. Do you have any good resources on that? Sounds interesting...
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Here are a few references to the "universal cybernetics" (ie, universal informational nature of the Cosmos) concepts:

"The Intelligent Universe: a cybernetic philosophy", Foster
"Information and the Nature of Reality", Davies & Gregerson
"Cosmic Cybernetics: foundations of a modern astrology", Landscheidt (a rare but still available work, with very radical ramifications)

...these are available at Amazon Books...
 

ThunderGoddess

Well-known member
If a sceptic asks me how or whaether astrology works I tell him three things: Date, time, place of birth :D :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: It just works. That's all.
But yeah, you are right about quantum physics - I mean everything aroud us is energy flowing, changing and official science know that for a very long time. On the other hand nobody argues about wheather the Moon causes the flows of the oceans and seas on Earth and almost everyone knows that it's hard to sleep for some people at Full Moon, so it requires a little of trust to go and really try astrology. And then all people know it works. :biggrin:
 
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