When love is a threat: Saturn opposition Venus

midnight sun

Well-known member
I’ve been searching and trying to understand the situation of Saturn opp Venus, or in general hard aspects of Saturn and Venus because it has a very bad fame for causing curse in love. And it does.

But the planets’ positions are not the reasons, they are just indicators of real life situations.

After a long time, I understood the psychological dynamics lying under this aspect.

It’s about losing connection with people and then not being able to form it again. Usually losing connection is about losing trust and security and it happens during childhood times. So it works quite unconscious in the adulthood, it’s a defense system coming from childhood and sabotages our life in the future. What I found very difficult is to regenerate the security I needed in the past and also in present. I don’t know how to create it really. It’s not simple as telling myself that I’m in safety.

As a child, I was always afraid of something, especially at nights. I never feel secure even if there are many people (parents&relatives) around me, in the house. I got frightened in any house I slept in. I held my legs tight to my chest while I was sleeping till I’m 12. I was afraid that something will pull my legs. I was always told that I have a good and happy childhood but in my late twenties I realized that this is not the truth at all. I realized that my parents show interest to me and love me mostly phsycially but didn’t understand my emotional needs and never paid attention to them. So they never thought my fears are serious or why I’m feeling so alone.

I went on analysing of my childhood feelings. I found out that I don’t really know what it means to be loved. Because my parents were showing me love and interest (not my father much), but I always feel abondaned and unloved. My main issue is the big gap between my feelings and the image of my family life. I couldn’t understand what is real actually. One more thing, I learned that I can be loved when I behave like other people wants. And this pattern goes on all my life with my friends or boys I feel in love with. But I never won, at the end I was always alone, by myself.

The main friendship pattern I always live is that I join a friend group and be very close to them. Then after a time, they stop calling me or pay attention to me and I’m left alone. The main love pattern I always live is that I fall in love with impossible men or sometimes abusive ones.

I’m 30 and I still don’t understand if a person love me or not. Because I don’t understand people’s messages. There were so many people seem to be very close to me and left me suddenly. I really don’t understand what is real or not. So finally I decided to be alone and never get close to anyone. At this time I found out that I’ve been sexually abused in my childhood and my real feelings about men rise in me(I mean they are not unconscious anymore). I decide I don’t to be a pleasure object for any men or give any men pleasure. I don’t want to get married with someone or be a lover of someone. Because I’m more peaceful now. I was always having depression attacks when I fell in love with someone. The most funny parts of relationship like flirting are usually nightmares for me. I quickly want to understand if he’ll be my boyfriend or not. My psychology gets upside down if there is an uncertainity.

So finally I understand the dynamics of Saturn opp Venus. Yes it’s about fear, not being able to feel secure, not being able to trust people, in some cases hating yourself or punishing yourself, actually love is dangerous for your mental health in this position. Love takes away your defense, and you can’t protect yourself and no it’s not fun for you like other people feel. It’s a threat, you feel your being is under threat and this is not a simple thing. Even psychologists can’t see this pattern easily.

At this time, it’s hard to offer a solution. Going to psychologist couldn’t help me(I went to so many). Because they can’t understand the issue right. For example I was working on relationships for one year but at one point I couldn’t go far because it’s a threat. I mean it’s like I have to go into a burning house to save someone…And the doctor couldn’t see it. First this fear have to go for starting to work on relationships and all those learning processes of them. And don’t forget that for the person to leave the fear behind, she/he has to believe that she/he will be able to protect herself/himself.

Another detail which I’m sure is about Saturn opp. or my other aspects is that I feel I’m isolated from all the people, like I’m outside of them(including my family and all my relatives). And again this is a “feeling”, not something I live physically. I mean this when I told about “not being able to connect”. But I feel connected to humanity in general and mostly animals and nature. And I also feel very mıuch love for animals and nature. I guess I only feel love for them. My future dream is to live with some animals and plants together.
 

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Krewster

Well-known member
At 6-ish degrees loose, that Ven 180 Sat is more likely non-existent or at least too weak-influenced to serve as a sole indicator of such a major facet of your behavior/experiences.

Instead, how about your average 20-ish min orbed Octo-Zoid (i.e., the trapezoid shaped config composed because your Sun 180 Nept is so parallel to your Ven 90 Jup that semi-squares sew up the ends and a pair of 135's serve as crossbraces).

More if you're interested...
 

ashriia

Well-known member
Hi midnightsun, thank you for sharing your experiences here. You've helped me understand saturn/venus issues with more clarity. I don't have this aspect personally but my ex has the quincunx, and also venus in the 8th. And much of what you shared is very similar to issues my ex has. I disagree in the orb being too loose. Especially since venus is your chart ruler and capricorn rules your IC. IMO a wide orb still can be dominant. But I do see some other aspects in your chart which may be responsible for some of what you have mentioned as well. Is your birth time correct or is it off slightly?
 
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midnight sun

Well-known member
Thank you ashriia for replying me.

Other problematic in my chart is Neptune effect of course. Especially it's very involved with my identity crisis and reality problems. During this months, I think I'm having my Saturn Return and I'm very depressed.

Other interesting transit will be Pluto trine my Venus, I wonder what it will bring to me. I hope no more pain there will be.
 

ashriia

Well-known member
During this months, I think I'm having my Saturn Return and I'm very depressed.

Saturn return would have been exact in october of 2014. Pluto will conjunct your Nadir soon.. which can be extremely intense psychologically and emotionally, especially when it is on the periphery of an angle or 2 degrees before and after a house cusp. I like to think of pluto as giving you wings you never realized you had. however, all obstructions to your growth must be removed before the pluto's gifts can really be seen. A good book specifically on Pluto, might be worthwhile reading IMO. If your TOB is correct, then you have some very nice pluto aspects natally which you can if you haven't already; tap into and which you may be able to utilize to help you to get out of your saturnian funky moods.

all the best:smile:
 

Lin

Well-known member
As you said, the planets positions don't CAUSE the problems.

The natal chart is a symbolic map of the psyche that represents THE WAY you are GOING TO EXPERIENCE YOUR LIFE.

You are going to experience this opposition and ...also...which you left out....the opposition to your Moon and Mars by NEPTUNE.
This means there is something you are not remembering that is part of this issue. Maybe something that would help you let some of that Saturn "go." OR...at least explain part of it.

Saturn represents "power" in the childhood...so any person who had power made you feel vulnerable or "less." Also, not individual....but an object. Like a posession.

If your parents and others in the family saw children as possessions and not cherished individuals you could be treated as an object and not lovingly.

YOu assume all authority figures (mostly men) will make you feel the way you felt then.

I hope you no longer live near your original family. Distance is often one of the cures.
Being around people in different cultures might help also.
However, you do bring your issues with you wherever you go; but.....sometimes it IS a perspective you need to find.

BTW, you ALSO have Venus and Jupiter exactly square. So you also distrust "love" because Jupiter is found in the 5th house of romance and love and children....which you also may be wary about bearing.
YOu may have been in therapy, but you may not be talking about the right things: the things that are at the core of your fears, anxieties and inhibitions.
LIN
 
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SunW

Well-known member
Thank you ashriia for replying me.

Other problematic in my chart is Neptune effect of course. Especially it's very involved with my identity crisis and reality problems. During this months, I think I'm having my Saturn Return and I'm very depressed.

Other interesting transit will be Pluto trine my Venus, I wonder what it will bring to me. I hope no more pain there will be.

Most of the things that you describe are connected to your Neptune-Sun opposition. It is the thing that gives you illusions, your connection to humanity in general, animals and plants, the inability to get involved, the feeling of isolation.
Neptune has an aspect to both - the Sun and the Moon that are one's parents.

Your Venus has another problem - it's in the 8th house which is not a good position in general. But it is in Taurus and it rules your ascendant which makes it stong. And it is in conjunction with the North Lunar Node - your task in life will be to develop your Venusian qualities.

Venus in the 8th house might show Venusian problems that the women in your family had - it might go generations back in time. What could they be! Venus in square to Jupiter - a divorce? Jupiter in the 4th house, the father's house, these women might be from your father's family. Abuse on these women - 8th house?
 

masteroid

Member
Hi. When you said you found out about early abuse when you were in your twenties I am assuming the abuse must have started or occurred when you were quite young. Transiting Pluto was opposing your Venus when you were only 5 so this is a time when issues of trust, betrayal, physical and emotional security were being activated. Pluto's association with the dark, secret hidden powerful destroyer may have enhanced Saturn,s influence. The fear of the dark and of commitment and intimacy are all put into play. I agree with a previous post that the Venus connection to the Nodes is very important. Having recently read Steven Forrester's books including "Yesterdays Skies" (significance of Moons Nodes with past lives), the opposition of an 8th house Venus to the South Node could be indicative of relationships, intimacy being tied in to money power and control. The Saturn contact adds to the picture of enslavement and being restricted and confined in some way. That all sounds very morose and dark but Venus conjunct the North Node and opposing Saturn may speak of a drive towards a new experience of deep committed intimacy and mutual harmonious sharing. I feel that an opposition of Venus to Saturn could mean that this type of relationship would most likely be experienced after the Saturn return. Saturn does not like to rush things does it! and likes to do things the hard way and experience the harsh knocks first. The Sun Neptune opposition could have left things behind an illusiory veil for a while before events or knowledge sacrificed those illusions. It does support what you said about feeling connected to all around you ie animals and nature but not on a personal identity or ego level. So perhaps Pluto trine the Venus will help things in the long run and with transiting Chiron sextiling Venus an Uranus about to pass over the Descendent (depending on accuraracy oif birth time), is there a potential and maybe a surprising one to change your perspective on friends and relationships.
 

midnight sun

Well-known member
Most of the things that you describe are connected to your Neptune-Sun opposition. It is the thing that gives you illusions, your connection to humanity in general, animals and plants, the inability to get involved, the feeling of isolation.
Neptune has an aspect to both - the Sun and the Moon that are one's parents.

Your Venus has another problem - it's in the 8th house which is not a good position in general. But it is in Taurus and it rules your ascendant which makes it stong. And it is in conjunction with the North Lunar Node - your task in life will be to develop your Venusian qualities.

Venus in the 8th house might show Venusian problems that the women in your family had - it might go generations back in time. What could they be! Venus in square to Jupiter - a divorce? Jupiter in the 4th house, the father's house, these women might be from your father's family. Abuse on these women - 8th house?

Thank you for your comment, it is interesting.

This Neptune effect about nature and animals, I realize I have it frm childhood. I listen to my own voice, telling a tale when I was 1.5 years old and it was about me, putting wheels under our house and all the animals in the house(not humans) and then went on journey. Also I'm very into the story of Noah. I feel same and one with animals and other being except humans. (Maybe because Neptune is ruling my 6th house-animals)

Your other comment is very very interesting. My mental disorder is called atypical depression which means being too vulnerable in case of rejection and abandonment. I'm living crisis in situations like that. My father's father died when he was 6. (and my father is very close emotionally) And his mother's(my granma) mother is divorced and his mother is rejected by his father. So yes, there is a pattern generational. And I prefer to be alone also because I fear of divorce so much. Also my mother's mother was married at the age of 13(in the eastern part of Turkey, childhood marriages are a problem, especially in the past, it seems normal)

There is also a migration and denial of ethnicity story in mother's side.

So the situation is really completed. But I mostly feel the father issues rising from me. And I really don't know what to do about it. But my Mercury is very powerful, thanks God. It helps my Venus a lot, these days I'm working on having more confidence about my creativity and I have more motivation about it. Art makes me feel good a lot.
 

midnight sun

Well-known member
Hi. When you said you found out about early abuse when you were in your twenties I am assuming the abuse must have started or occurred when you were quite young. Transiting Pluto was opposing your Venus when you were only 5 so this is a time when issues of trust, betrayal, physical and emotional security were being activated. Pluto's association with the dark, secret hidden powerful destroyer may have enhanced Saturn,s influence. The fear of the dark and of commitment and intimacy are all put into play. I agree with a previous post that the Venus connection to the Nodes is very important. Having recently read Steven Forrester's books including "Yesterdays Skies" (significance of Moons Nodes with past lives), the opposition of an 8th house Venus to the South Node could be indicative of relationships, intimacy being tied in to money power and control. The Saturn contact adds to the picture of enslavement and being restricted and confined in some way. That all sounds very morose and dark but Venus conjunct the North Node and opposing Saturn may speak of a drive towards a new experience of deep committed intimacy and mutual harmonious sharing. I feel that an opposition of Venus to Saturn could mean that this type of relationship would most likely be experienced after the Saturn return. Saturn does not like to rush things does it! and likes to do things the hard way and experience the harsh knocks first. The Sun Neptune opposition could have left things behind an illusiory veil for a while before events or knowledge sacrificed those illusions. It does support what you said about feeling connected to all around you ie animals and nature but not on a personal identity or ego level. So perhaps Pluto trine the Venus will help things in the long run and with transiting Chiron sextiling Venus an Uranus about to pass over the Descendent (depending on accuraracy oif birth time), is there a potential and maybe a surprising one to change your perspective on friends and relationships.

Thanks for your reply. Yes I checked my childhood transits and you're right. I don't remember my abuses but I find painting in a book from my childhood and that's my only proof. I did the drawings when I was 5, 1990. The second event I saw mostly in my dreams, happened in 1992. I also saw these years in my dream, too. Also not remembering many things from past is very depressing, I guess it's about Neptune in 3rd house.

Well I need a sudden change because I really know believe in healing. After so many efforts, I don't believe it anymore. and I'm tired. So I need a sudden change or a sudden enlightment in my mind and feelings. Saturn Return causes me to withdrawl to my shell more than before.

But before this Return, I tried so many different activities. I was into Sharing Economy for example, went to meetings, I also went to women circles, family constellations etc. But I didn't feel good at the end. So I stopped joining them. I didn't feel good with other people.
 

masteroid

Member
Hi.
One area of astrology I am looking at in more detail are solar arcs where the whole chart progresses a day for a year depending on the movement of the sun. Each major contact (conjunction, square, opposition) between planets and points becomes a once in a lifetime contact as the maximum movement by solar arc is about 90 degrees (90 days = 90 years).
In 1992/3 your solar arc Sun reaches your 8th house Mars therefore your solar Neptune is opposing Mars also. It must have been a very confusing time and distorted your need for a natural expression for your physical and emotional needs and wants for intimacy and sharing. Somehow you would have been able to make yourself invisible or felt invisible and not surprising your recollection is with dreams. You say you believe in healing and it is interesting that the solar arc Chiron has moved to this Mars point as this is where the healing is needed now.
Although many years apart I also have an early Cancer Sun in the 9th, Libra rising and an 8th house Taurus Venus so i feel some affinity with your chart. With solar arcs attention is paid to planets (particularly the Sun changes sign) Your solar arc sun is at the entrance to Leo. I can equate this as a time when you have an urge to be more expressive and true to your nature or at least to do what you really want to do, what you would enjoy. Incidentally as you have the Moon at one degree also, the solar arc Moon has moved in to Libra (more a need to relate, harmonise, find equality than to dissect and analize. What with Uranus transiting over your Descendant (sudden unexpected change in relationship) and Pluto squaring the ASC/DES axis, perhaps there is going to be the opportunity to experience a transformation and real healing by engaging in a real meaningful relationship.
Michael
 

midnight sun

Well-known member
Hi.
One area of astrology I am looking at in more detail are solar arcs where the whole chart progresses a day for a year depending on the movement of the sun. Each major contact (conjunction, square, opposition) between planets and points becomes a once in a lifetime contact as the maximum movement by solar arc is about 90 degrees (90 days = 90 years).
In 1992/3 your solar arc Sun reaches your 8th house Mars therefore your solar Neptune is opposing Mars also. It must have been a very confusing time and distorted your need for a natural expression for your physical and emotional needs and wants for intimacy and sharing. Somehow you would have been able to make yourself invisible or felt invisible and not surprising your recollection is with dreams. You say you believe in healing and it is interesting that the solar arc Chiron has moved to this Mars point as this is where the healing is needed now.
Although many years apart I also have an early Cancer Sun in the 9th, Libra rising and an 8th house Taurus Venus so i feel some affinity with your chart. With solar arcs attention is paid to planets (particularly the Sun changes sign) Your solar arc sun is at the entrance to Leo. I can equate this as a time when you have an urge to be more expressive and true to your nature or at least to do what you really want to do, what you would enjoy. Incidentally as you have the Moon at one degree also, the solar arc Moon has moved in to Libra (more a need to relate, harmonise, find equality than to dissect and analize. What with Uranus transiting over your Descendant (sudden unexpected change in relationship) and Pluto squaring the ASC/DES axis, perhaps there is going to be the opportunity to experience a transformation and real healing by engaging in a real meaningful relationship.
Michael

Actually, I wrote wrong. I don't believe in healing anymore because I tried so much but I still have the same problems.

After you mentioned about Solar Arc, I looked at my Solar Return chart and my Sun and Mars seems in 7th house. It means that my focus will be on relationships this year, I guess.

But all I want is to be happy and peaceful with my own. I don't want to work on relationships. I want to be able to stay with myself without being depressed. I think being powerful is something like that.

Astrology shows the upcoming patterns and I sense this kind of unconscious intervention and affect as a threat. I mean God or any other power controlling our lives seems to me negative, not loving. I always felt I'm being punished. Or those unconscious forces are authorities, like a dominant, repressive, unloving teachers.

For example, Pluto will trine my Venus which is a good aspect and maybe bring me a partner. But I think that is an evil plan for me. They(unconscious powers) will cause me to believe that I'll have a good relationship, I'll live it but at the end of the transit, I'll be abondoned and left alone. So I always look for a secret plan which will cause me to suffer. I don't trust any unconscious power. I don't believe they want my goodness. Probably that's a Neptune effect, too. :sideways:
 
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