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scorpio1
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]............http://www.bemyastrologer.com/genius.html[/FONT]
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archergirl
Well-known member
Interesting topic. You might find this link interesting. Genius has been discussed on here before.
I would disagree with this, said by the author:
Although this has nothing to do with the topic, I also really object to the use of the word 'psychotics' by this particular author, in collusion with Freud. The mentally disabled are not psychotics, nor should they be confused with psychotics. Freud and his lexicon are a bit out of fashion.
As someone in that "very superior intelligence" bracket (according to the guy who invented IQ tests), I could identify with almost all of the following:
My closest and very highly intelligent friend also exhibits several of the above aspects, including the Mercury-Uranus square. No-one else understands our private humour.
The point about the 11th house was interesting although it seems to me that this speaks more about ideals than ideations (I have 11th house Sun/Venus; my friend has 11th house Mercury). My chart has five or so sextiles (if we include sextiles to the MC and ASC), as does my friend's. She has a 9th house stellium; she's finishing her PhD as we speak.
Food for thought.
AG
I would disagree with this, said by the author:
as I don't see how this has any correlation with intelligence. There are plenty of people in the low IQ bracket who have afflicted Jupiter or Venus, and ditto for sexual problems. It isn't just the smart people who have trouble with sex and money, or surf the web and play guitar! Look at Keith Richards.
Although this has nothing to do with the topic, I also really object to the use of the word 'psychotics' by this particular author, in collusion with Freud. The mentally disabled are not psychotics, nor should they be confused with psychotics. Freud and his lexicon are a bit out of fashion.
As someone in that "very superior intelligence" bracket (according to the guy who invented IQ tests
), I could identify with almost all of the following:# The chart is unbalanced.
There is a lack of planets in one element or quality YES, I have only the ASC and Uranus in an air sign.
# Overstressed or afflicted 3rd house (the mind) YES, I have Saturn conjunct Moon in 3rd
# A malefic in the 3rd (Mars, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune or Pluto): YES, Saturn
# The ruler of the 3rd is in close aspect to one or more malefic(s) YES, 3rd ruler Mars in exact sextile with Saturn
# The 10th house (career, public recognition, fame) is often afflicted YES, I have Neptune conjunct the MC and Mars squares it. although what does this have to do with intelligence?
# A close, stressful connection between the 3rd and the 10th...YES. 3rd ruler Mars square MC (and Neptune)
The way this person's mind works interferes with his or her reputation and work in the world. Ah, I see. Highly likely.
# The Ascendant is often afflicted. YES, ASC squared its own ruler, Saturn.
A malefic is rising or the chart ruler may be in close aspect to a malefic, indicating that the person has difficulty "adjusting" to society or may not be able to at all
# Connections between the Ascendant and the 3rd house
The way this person's mind works interferes with his ability to adapt to everyday life. He also has difficulty expressing his thoughts in a way that others can understand. AS ABOVE. ASC ruler in the 3rd and squared.
# Mercury is often afflicted by a malefic, especially an outer planet YES, Mercury squared Uranus
# Indications of sexual frustration, inhibition, or transference of sexual values upon other things (art, music, guitar playing, surfing the internet) Don't we all?
# Jupiter (success) or Venus (money) are often afflicted by Mars, Saturn or Uranus YES and NO, but what does this have to do with intelligence?
My closest and very highly intelligent friend also exhibits several of the above aspects, including the Mercury-Uranus square. No-one else understands our private humour.
The point about the 11th house was interesting although it seems to me that this speaks more about ideals than ideations (I have 11th house Sun/Venus; my friend has 11th house Mercury). My chart has five or so sextiles (if we include sextiles to the MC and ASC), as does my friend's. She has a 9th house stellium; she's finishing her PhD as we speak.
Food for thought.
AG
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Arian Maverick
Well-known member
Personally, I think society places too much emphasis upon "genius," and that the quality has become closely entwined with ego. For this reason, I will not rattle off my own astrological placements that match with the descriptions, although I am sorely tempted to!
This was the most significant part of the article, in my opinion:
I think we all need heal the associations of intelligence with personal worth, no matter where we may fall on the so-called intelligence scale.
In an attempt to stay on-topic, I believe the fixed star Scheat is associated with John Nash and other geniuses, that it's in paran with one of his natal planets.
Arian Maverick
This was the most significant part of the article, in my opinion:
I think we all need heal the associations of intelligence with personal worth, no matter where we may fall on the so-called intelligence scale.
In an attempt to stay on-topic, I believe the fixed star Scheat is associated with John Nash and other geniuses, that it's in paran with one of his natal planets.
Arian Maverick
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archergirl
Well-known member
So you're suggesting I have an ego, do you? Go on, AM, let yourself shine. Being brilliant isn't all it's cracked up to be; you still have to deal with the rest of the world.
I remain sceptical of 'this aspect means this', for the most part, since statistically a whole bunch of people born on my birthday will have similar aspects/placements/charts, and I'd bet my shoes that not all of them fit into the "very superior intelligence" bracket, either.
I agree about schooling, however, and feel that many 'geniuses' will go unrecognised because of it. There are different sorts of intelligence, and not all of them have to do with being able to pick out increasingly complicated patterns or solve algebra problems. Like I tell my son, taking tests only shows how good you are at taking tests.
High intelligence doesn't mean happiness, either. My dad is a Mensa member, and he's about the crankiest, most unhappy man I've met.
AG
I remain sceptical of 'this aspect means this', for the most part, since statistically a whole bunch of people born on my birthday will have similar aspects/placements/charts, and I'd bet my shoes that not all of them fit into the "very superior intelligence" bracket, either.
I agree about schooling, however, and feel that many 'geniuses' will go unrecognised because of it. There are different sorts of intelligence, and not all of them have to do with being able to pick out increasingly complicated patterns or solve algebra problems. Like I tell my son, taking tests only shows how good you are at taking tests.
High intelligence doesn't mean happiness, either. My dad is a Mensa member, and he's about the crankiest, most unhappy man I've met.
AG
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aquarius7000
Well-known member
Scorpio, whilst I myself have quite a few of those configs mentioned in the check list in your post, and am always very fascinated by threads on such topics (perhaps as an Aqua); I have come to realise that 'intelligence' or to take this a step higher (at least linguistically) 'genius' are very broad terms, which are/can be measured as per equally diversified parameters (good grades at school/a highly creative mind/abreast of current affairs, etc, etc). As hard and sometimes even a little illogical (my viewpoint) as I growingly find to pin down 'genius' on certain aspects/placements, it is nonetheless worth 'researching' this subject from an astrological point of view. Hence, I will leave you now with another topic-related thread, in case you'd like to have a peek, and thank you for sharing that interesting link with us.
AQ7
); I have come to realise that 'intelligence' or to take this a step higher (at least linguistically) 'genius' are very broad terms, which are/can be measured as per equally diversified parameters (good grades at school/a highly creative mind/abreast of current affairs, etc, etc). As hard and sometimes even a little illogical (my viewpoint) as I growingly find to pin down 'genius' on certain aspects/placements, it is nonetheless worth 'researching' this subject from an astrological point of view. Hence, I will leave you now with another topic-related thread, in case you'd like to have a peek, and thank you for sharing that interesting link with us.AQ7
Arian Maverick
Well-known member
No, I was suggesting more along the lines that I have an ego that's fallen into the trap I've described, so I wanted to warn others how declarations of genius may have unintended consequences. Think of me as the servant in Greco-Roman times who whispers in the emperor's ear, reminding him that he is not God.
I hope my words don't appear too confrontational, but what good may be gained by members clamoring that they possess these astrological characteristics of "genius"? Will we learn more about ourselves than we had previously? Will it foster increased understanding?
Please don't misunderstand; I enjoyed the article, so much so that I explored more articles on the site from which it derives. Yet I immediately recognized the inherent danger of it, how set criteria may do more harm than good--possibly lowering the confidence of intelligent individuals who don't match this criteria, and similarly lowering the confidence of those who do, since they may feel compelled to find proof of a characteristic they know they possess.
Instead of looking for indicators of "genius," I think it would be more illuminating to look for astrological factors that may indicate ambivalent feelings regarding one's intelligence, no matter how it is measured.
I've always had mixed feelings about IQ and the designations that derive from these tests because my severely autistic brother supposedly has an IQ that would make him "psychotic," in the words of the author. I don't care what score he achieved on this test; I do not doubt his intelligence one bit.
I hadn't even thought of this point.
Exactly! Not to mention the fact that many highly-intelligent individuals get lost in the public school system because it cannot meet their needs.
Thank you; that's another point I wanted to make, but I thought it was time to step down from the soapbox.
Another very good point.
I'm glad we've had this side-discussion; I feel mucher freer to contribute astrologically to this thread.
Arian Maverick
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Serendipity
Well-known member
I agree wholeheartedly. This would also fit into discussions on what in a chart would indicate someone is beautiful or funny... or a liar or serial killer. Astrology is not like math where 2+2=4.
I am pretty intelligent but I am not a genius.....but apparently I have the chart of one. My husband, who has a high IQ, doesn't fit the mold.
This thread has been interesting.
JayM
Well-known member
Well this thread is interesting. Theres a difference between intelligent and genius I think. Genius seems to be someone who sort of has flashes of insight and says AHA! when they really "get" something. I have uranus square mars and uranus conj mercury, and some books I have ready say that I have genius potential, and sometimes I do sort or suddenly get something thats hard to explain but when I explain it I understand it but no one else does.. lol
Also I do have most of the aspect that scorpio1 did point out if you look at my chart.
Serindipity, I do know that astrology is not supposed to be cut and dry with its explanations, and your not really supposed to say that "this aspect and this aspect mean this!", but scorpio1 did say she was new to astrology.
Also I do have most of the aspect that scorpio1 did point out if you look at my chart.
Serindipity, I do know that astrology is not supposed to be cut and dry with its explanations, and your not really supposed to say that "this aspect and this aspect mean this!", but scorpio1 did say she was new to astrology.
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4leafclovah
Some of the most intelligent people I have met are some of the most boring,lazy people. Intelligence is great if you are going to contribute something revolutionary or do something meaningful in the circle of life, but if all you are going to do is talk about your IQ yet have nothing to show for it then it's pretty much worthless.
Shining Ray
Banned
The funny thing with "astrological signatures" is that a lot of them can "fit" your chart. I don't fall in the high intelligence bracket. My brothers used to tease me all the time, when I said stupid things. As others were saying being intelligent isn't all it's cracked up to be, and quite often many of the most intelligent men and women all went insane, and spent a few years living locked up in an asylum, but of course there are those people who can remain in reality and have a strong container for their mental gifts. I remember watching a film on a mathematician who was driven mad in his later years, writing in notebooks all different maths equations, from morning until night. His daughter inherited his intelligence, and so was blessed and cursed at the same time, because she was terrified that she too would fall into mental illness. I don't think it's just the genius who falls into this category, as many great artists of our time have at some point gone mad.
If you are highly intelligent, there is a lot of pressure to do something with your "gift", and not to "waste" it. Perhaps being born with a normal I.Q, isn't such a bad thing. If you look at the family situation, often when a child is born gifted in the family, either through intelligence, or artistic and musical talent etc. The child is singled out as "special" and a lot of pressure is placed upon him/her to succeed. The other siblings in the family can feel ignored or second best to the "anointed" one. Yet, later down the line often the pressure has become too much to bear, and the gifted child longs to be ordinary. It sounds crazy to us because we would all love to be talented, but I think to be "ordinary" is an undervalued gift. The genius often pays a high price, more than us ordinary folk may realize. We all have unique gifts. However, I have seen some individuals value another's gifts over their own. You might have a gift you find is boring and so you think it is not worth developing, but maybe this has to do with self-value.
Arian Maverick made some excellent points on intelligence and the ego, and in the book Mythic Journey by Liz Greene, there is a myth called children of the winds, she calls "intelligence without humility". I will quote a little from the book, as it is relevant to this topic.
Basically traits such as arrogance, smugness, delusions of grandeur can lead to the abuse of innate gifts.
Astrologically the outer planets always seem to play a role in out-of-the ordinary-gifts, perhaps these planets are connected to the mental aspects of the natal chart.
If you are highly intelligent, there is a lot of pressure to do something with your "gift", and not to "waste" it. Perhaps being born with a normal I.Q, isn't such a bad thing. If you look at the family situation, often when a child is born gifted in the family, either through intelligence, or artistic and musical talent etc. The child is singled out as "special" and a lot of pressure is placed upon him/her to succeed. The other siblings in the family can feel ignored or second best to the "anointed" one. Yet, later down the line often the pressure has become too much to bear, and the gifted child longs to be ordinary. It sounds crazy to us because we would all love to be talented, but I think to be "ordinary" is an undervalued gift. The genius often pays a high price, more than us ordinary folk may realize. We all have unique gifts. However, I have seen some individuals value another's gifts over their own. You might have a gift you find is boring and so you think it is not worth developing, but maybe this has to do with self-value.
Arian Maverick made some excellent points on intelligence and the ego, and in the book Mythic Journey by Liz Greene, there is a myth called children of the winds, she calls "intelligence without humility". I will quote a little from the book, as it is relevant to this topic.
Basically traits such as arrogance, smugness, delusions of grandeur can lead to the abuse of innate gifts.
Astrologically the outer planets always seem to play a role in out-of-the ordinary-gifts, perhaps these planets are connected to the mental aspects of the natal chart.
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archergirl
Well-known member
Yes, well said.
It was worse for me because I was an only child. I had to face the frowning disapproval of my entire family if I, for example, got a B on my report card (I was an indifferent student), and those awful words, "You can do better."And some that I have met are extremely obnoxious! But I think that this doesn't have much to do with intelligence; being intelligent only allows them to argue about it more eloquently.
I don't think there is only one, is the problem. Mercury aspects are usually the most obvious, and in the other thread I pointed out we were discussing Mercury square Uranus, which seems to be fairly common amongst people who are known to be a bit too bright for their own good. Mercury rules thinking, after all; and in this culture at least, it is 'thinking' intelligence that we are mostly measured by. Thinking is not equated to common sense, which IMO is vastly underrated as a form of intelligence, simply because common sense isn't very common at all.
On the other hand, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with acknowledging one's intelligence. There seems to be an undercurrent of "Let's not brag, now" if one has a high IQ, as if having one infers that people who don't have one might be offended, or feel somehow lesser simply because they wouldn't do quite as well on a particular test. There is humility, and then there's false humility. I would be careful about this. There is nothing wrong with being intelligent, and I am comfortable admitting my intelligence. But neither is there anything wrong with NOT having an IQ in the upper brackets, because everyone has something good to contribute to the world and most often the most important contributions to humanity are made by people who are willing to roll up their sleeves and get to work, no matter how bright they are or aren't. Intelligence by itself is not the measure of a person.
AG
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EJ53
Banned
scorpio1 said:..What placement in your chart do you find to be most intelectually inclined, and how do you express it?
Hi Scorpio1.......(and a belated welcome to the forum),
I have a Pluto/Mercury square in (8th Harmonic) aspect to a Uranus/Jupiter opposition (on MC/IC)..........So, I'll intellectualise at a funeral about why everyone looks unhappy..........visibly demonstrating (by default) the value of emotional intelligence to anyone within earshot.
The Pluto/Mercury square makes me analyse things to the Nth degree; the 8th Harmonic makes me persistant and the Uranus/Jupiter makes me mentally objective...........But, that gives me only an ability/inclination to think.......The quality of my thinking; what I choose to think about and the extent to which I involve my feelings are perhaps better indicators of intelligence.........that the birthchart simply cannot indicate reliably (imo).
EJ
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R4VEN
Well-known member
Hooray! At last - an intelligent answer/post.The Pluto/Mercury square makes me analyse things to the Nth degree; the 8th Harmonic makes me persistant and the Uranus/Jupiter makes me mentally objective...........But, that gives me only an ability/inclination to think.......The quality of my thinking; what I choose to think about and the extent to which I involve my feelings are perhaps better indicators of intelligence.........that the birthchart simply cannot indicate reliably (imo).
EJ
I have highlighted the conclusion which I see (IMHO!!) as relevant.
As with many other questions on AW of the ilk: What indicators on a chart are there for genius/intelligence/good looks/small feet/musical taste.................
as I see it, and as I practise it, astrology is not necessarily about those sorts of details. One can be extremely intelligent - and complete with favourable Mercury/Uranus placements - but still be quite stupid with it. And a true genius may have intellectual gifts, but not know how to tie his own shoe-laces.
As EJ says, intelligence is about how you use what you have (rather than what you have) - and everyone has a choice with this.
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Nexus7
Well-known member
As I understood it, it has nowe been recognised that high IQ in itself means little in terms of predicting how well someone will do - now, there is a lot of talk of different kinds of intelligence other than how quickly information is processed. Now, there is talk of EQ, the ability to think laterally, verbally, spatially.
It may be difficult therefore to trace all these different kinds of intelligences in any one chart unless you are looking for something specific, though I did read that harmonic signatures, particularly in the 5th and 7th may be revealing there?
You can have child prodogies at music, but what about geniuses in football, statesmanship, painting, entrepreneurialism, literature?
What do you mean by 'genius' - the child prodigy such as Mozart, or something else? Whilst Mercury/Uranus may certainkly come up as the 'usual suspects' in the case of a gift that emerges from the age of 2 or 3 that arrives effortlessly, I would look to something like the South Node.
'Genius' - the word itself - I heard, comes from the idea of some kind of spirit - 'genii loci' is the spirit of a certain place. Maybe the 'genius' is simply more in touch with some kind of inner spirit or 'daemon' more than most people. That might or might not have something to do with having a strongly-placed transpersonal like Uranus conjunct a more personal planert - or, for that matter, Neptune.
Hermann Hesse wrote an interesting litle tale about a young prodigy who is groomed for 'greatness' - in other words, pushed by all the ignorant little people around him at school and at home, academically, till he collapsed from mental exhustion and died. Of course, they actually wanted someone who would conform to all the expectations of the world they lived in. Talent, I think the book is saying, is often more welcomed in the world than genius.
It may be difficult therefore to trace all these different kinds of intelligences in any one chart unless you are looking for something specific, though I did read that harmonic signatures, particularly in the 5th and 7th may be revealing there?
You can have child prodogies at music, but what about geniuses in football, statesmanship, painting, entrepreneurialism, literature?
What do you mean by 'genius' - the child prodigy such as Mozart, or something else? Whilst Mercury/Uranus may certainkly come up as the 'usual suspects' in the case of a gift that emerges from the age of 2 or 3 that arrives effortlessly, I would look to something like the South Node.
'Genius' - the word itself - I heard, comes from the idea of some kind of spirit - 'genii loci' is the spirit of a certain place. Maybe the 'genius' is simply more in touch with some kind of inner spirit or 'daemon' more than most people. That might or might not have something to do with having a strongly-placed transpersonal like Uranus conjunct a more personal planert - or, for that matter, Neptune.
Hermann Hesse wrote an interesting litle tale about a young prodigy who is groomed for 'greatness' - in other words, pushed by all the ignorant little people around him at school and at home, academically, till he collapsed from mental exhustion and died. Of course, they actually wanted someone who would conform to all the expectations of the world they lived in. Talent, I think the book is saying, is often more welcomed in the world than genius.
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archergirl
Well-known member
This is totally true. 'Intellect' in and of itself means very little, if one doesn't know how to incorporate it into being a decent and well-rounded human being. There is also a question of being a little too bright for one's own good; if the person is not well-integrated, they can grate on people around them by omitting the subtle niceties that make interactions run smoothly. A lot of highly intelligent people, especially those who have been groomed by their parents from a very young age, seem to lack social skills.
AG
dperez3894
Well-known member
# The chart is unbalanced.
There is a lack of planets in one element or quality
Possibly - Only one planet in Earth signs and one in Water.
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# Overstressed or afflicted 3rd house (the mind)
Neptune in 3rd house squared Mercury and Opposition Saturn
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# A malefic in the 3rd (Mars, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune or Pluto)
Neptune in the 3rd
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# The ruler of the 3rd is in close aspect to one or more malefic(s)
Jupiter(ruler of Sagittarius) my 3rd House conjunct Mars(malefic)
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# The 10th house (career, public recognition, fame) is often afflicted
No planets in 10th house.
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# The Ascendant is often afflicted.
A malefic is rising or the chart ruler may be in close aspect to a malefic, indicating that the person has difficulty "adjusting" to society or may not be able to at all
Ascendant and Pluto(malefic) opposition Sun and Venus
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# Connections between the Ascendant and the 3rd house
The way this person's mind works interferes with his ability to adapt to everyday life. He also has difficulty expressing his thoughts in a way that others can understand.
Pluto in Ascendant sextile Neptune in 3rd
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# Mercury is often afflicted by a malefic, especially an outer planet
Mercury square Neptune, Mercury square Saturn