What to do with considerations before judgement?

tripleooo

Well-known member
The list of considerations before judgement is well-known, but in case someone forgot, here it is:

Less than 3 degrees rising
More than 27 degree rising
Moon in Via Combusta (15° Libra - 15° Scorpio), unless conjunct Spica (?)
Moon Void of Course, unless in Taurus, Cancer, Sagittarius or Pisces
Moon in a late degree, especially in Gemini, Scorpio or Capricorn
Saturn in the 1st or 7th house (especially if retrograde)
7th house ruler afflicted (unless the question concerns the 7th house)
Lord of the ascendant combust
Lord of the 7th house unfortunate

But here is the question: if I find one (or more) of these considerations in a chart, what should I do with this? Should I turn down reading the chart or read it nonetheless?

My question concerns the Moon Void of Course in particular. Lilly writes “All manner of matters go hardly on when the Moon is void of course”, so apparently Lilly still judges the chart and not just rejects reading it. But what should I do when I see it in a horary chart?

As an example, I attached the chart below where the Moon is Void of Course. The original question is “Will I marry next year?” (asked not by me, by the way). Overall I don’t see many positive factors here so I would say “No, you will not”, but here the Moon comes into play. Maybe it is better to reply with “I can’t judge your chart right now”? There obviously is a difference between saying “no” and “I can’t answer your question”.

But then, if I say that it’s not the right time for the question and the person still wants to find out the answer, for how long can he wait until he asks it again? Are there any rules regarding the time that has to pass?

I’d be very glad if someone clarified it for me. :happy:
 

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Dirius

Well-known member
The Moon represents in a way the flow of time, and how things develop. Being void usually implies that not really much happens.

They key is understanding that the Moon in an horary chart, is also a co-signifier of the querent. Thus the void Moon, in many cases, represents the querents own lack of effort to bring a resolution to the chart.

- As in, if a querent asks: “Will I marry next year?”, one could ask if the querent is doing his/her part into meeting someone that shares his/her desire to get married. In most cases I've seen regarding this question, the querent is never doing that (they date the wrong person that doesn't wish to get married).

- Another example: "Will I get a job?", and the moon is void. Is the querent putting effort into getting one? is he sending out hundreds of job applications every day?or is he sitting at home waiting for the bell to ring?

Regarding the general considerations before judgement, you need to take them for what they are: things to consider, because they may influence the outcome of the judgement. Usually they do deny a favourable judgement, but it is important to understand why.

If a querent asks:"will my ex-girlfriend and I get back together?", and you see an aspect between the significators, reception between them, the Moon void of course, and the querents significator Combust then the answer is quite simple:

"You could get back together, but you are not doing anything about it (represented by Moon voc), probably because of some problem you are having (represented by being combusted)".

Thus the outcome is not favourable, but there is a reason for this.


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In the case of more general questions, in which the querent has no power to bring the outcome to resolution, the Moon merely represents the flow of things.

Also remember the chart is telling a story. It isn't about the happy or sad ending, but how you get there :joyful:
 
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tripleooo

Well-known member
@Dirius,

Thanks a lot! Very helpful reply. :joyful: So as far as I can understand, you don't recommend refusing to read charts because of any of these considerations? I've turned down a couple of questions when the ascendant was in an early degree and when the Moon was in via combusta... Did I do the wrong thing?
 
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Dirius

Well-known member
@Dirius,

Thanks a lot! Very helpful reply. :joyful: So as far as I can understand, you don't recommend refusing to read charts because of any of these considerations? I've turned down a couple of questions when the ascendant was in an early degree and when the Moon was via combusta... Did I do the wrong thing?

Well you shouldn't really turn them down if you are able to understand what the consideration is saying. In some cases the consideration is saying minor things, in other major things. Lets review your list, adding a quick explanation to what the considerations are really saying:

*** anyone is welcome to add here, given that I'm merely writting those that are on top of my mind, and I might be forgetting things, or adding some wrong ***

1) Early Ascendant:Situation is too new to predict an outcome. It Usually implies the querent is going ahead in asking something deep in the future.
-Example: "I talked with this guy on tinder yesterday, is he my future husband?"

2) Late Ascendant:
Situation is too far gone to change the outcome. Usually implies the querent already knows the answer to what will happen, and is asking as a last resort to check if there is a slight chance things will go diferent.
-Example: "My ex-gf dumped me 2 years ago, she hasn't talked to me since then and she made it clear she does not want me, and I heard through a friend she is getting married tomorrow and is very much in love. Will she and I get back together some day?"

3)Moon Via Combusta:It is a debility for the Moon. Given that the Moon usually represents the querents feelings is taken as any other accidental debility. It may imply that the querent's feelings are in a bad place and thus can't act in a logical way. You can generally find the Moon here for a person that is going through some sort of emotional problem.

4) Moon Void of course: I explained this one already, but, it usully signifies nothing will come from the situation, most likely, because of the querent's own lack of effort to make it happen, thus in a way, it sometimes denies a favourable outcome.

5) Moon in a late degree: Given the Moon is about to change signs, it implies that whatever is in the querent's mind, mostly what bothers him/her, is soon to change, so querent may not even care for the final answer. Changing signs means either the situation or what interests you changes as well.

6) Saturn on Asc/Desc/Ic/Mc/etc: Saturn is the great malefic, and whatever house you find him it represents some sort of debility. It is usually not favourable for any outcome to find Saturn at an angle, or in the quesited's house. Take it as a general debility. ---- There are also other implications for Saturn on the ASC for specific questions ----

7) 7th house ruler afflicted, Lord of the ascendant combust, Lord of the 7th house unfortunate: Depends on the actual question, but any kind of afflicted planets, if related by house rulership to the question implies something, and is part of the problem. The ruler of the 1st being Combusted, does signify the querent is having a problem, represented by the Sun, and thus should be treated as such.

And finally the most important one of all (which wasn't listed):

8) No hour agreement between Ascending sign and hour ruler: The querent is most likely asking this question for the sake of asking the question, or has asked the question repeatedly and is asking again just cause he/she knows is possible. it can mean that while the question may be important, the querent is not being serious about the answers he/she has gotten in the past.

PS: considerations are not my strong suit, this is just my interpretation of what they usually mean. In particular cases there might be different meanings, or I might have gotten some wrong. This is, in my view, what they usually mean in most charts I've seen. I wrote the meanings according to what I believe they are. But anyone is welcome to correct me if they disagree/find a mistake!
 
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tripleooo

Well-known member
@Dirius,

Wow, thanks for such an amazing reply! I couldn't have asked for more. What you've written makes a lot of sense to me! :happy:

By the way, the person who asked this question really doesn't make any effort to get married soon. I can understand what the Moon signifies in this situation.
 
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Dirius

Well-known member
@Dirius,

Wow, thanks for such an amazing reply! I couldn't have asked for more. What you've written makes a lot of sense to me! :happy:

By the way, the person who asked this question really doesn't make any effort to get married soon. I can understand what the Moon signifies in this situation.

More often than not they only date people that want short term things, or while in a relationship, they don't "influence" the partner to get married. It is as if they simply wait for it to happen out of thin air. In most cases, it doesn't.

Even if u get a chart with favourbale testimonies, sometimes, what the considerations represent may be enough to disable the chart from having a favourable outcome. In some cases, it prevents a negative outcome from happening.

However it is important to understand that this does not mean that the chart "can't be read".
 

Vyri

Banned
Thanks Dirius:wink: I appreciate your insightful perspective on considerations.
One consideration I have read about is when the Moon is within 5 degrees of making a conjunction with a planet in another sign, should Moon be considered void, yet, she really is not. In that type of a situation, her message is quite simply; a different turn of events, or viewpoint will come into play that her meaning represents in consideration to the house/sign she presently tenants-transferred over to another sign/house interpretation (in lieu of the fact if she will indeed cross over into another house physically, as lets say on a cusp of another house, not withstanding that there must be the awareness that the sign she moves into owns rule over a specific house meaning that relates or bears some testimony to the relevancy of the querants question, lets say, for instance you are looking for a testimony by the Moon to Mars, in a Marriage question, translating the light from Venus to Mars in one degree of the next sign Moon must pass into, within orb of, lets say 1-3 degrees? The Moon going from Venus to Mars, from an angle=elongated orb consideration, would agree to answer the question cinching the two together=conj. yes sought.)

The querent is usually subconsciously aware of her forthcoming influence, the energy representing an activity to accomplish an event that must play an important role to accomplishing the Moon's role to the successful outcome to the question. So something most definitely will transpire, but not as expected. In other words the Moon's present placement must take on a new expression or cloche of colouring to complete her purpose, the events or activities she represented in the house/sign she is considered void in-will take on a new perspective or consideration as she moves into another sign/house engaging the planet she is within 5 degrees orb of.
 
All the best
Vyri
 
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Dirius

Well-known member
Thanks Dirius:wink: I appreciate your insightful perspective on considerations.
One consideration I have read about is when the Moon is within 5 degrees of making a conjunction with a planet in another sign, should Moon be considered void, yet, she really is not. In that type of a situation, her message is quite simply; a different turn of events, or viewpoint will come into play that her meaning represents in consideration to the house/sign she presently tenants-transferred over to another sign/house interpretation (in lieu of the fact if she will indeed cross over into another house physically, as lets say on a cusp of another house, not withstanding that there must be the awareness that the sign she moves into owns rule over a specific house meaning.)

The querent is usually subconsciously aware of her forthcoming influence, the energy representing an activity to accomplish an event that must play an important role to accomplishing the Moon's role to the successful outcome to the question. So something most definitely will transpire, but not as expected. In other words the Moon's present placement must take on a new expression or cloche of colouring to complete her purpose, the events or activities she represented in the house/sign she is considered void in-will take on a new perspective or consideration as she moves into another sign/house engaging the planet she is within 5 degrees orb of.
 
All the best
Vyri

In my opinion, she is void for the purposes of an horary chart, regardless of the fact that the next aspect does occur within 12-13 degrees of distance.

This is because in (most) horary charts the position of the Moon by sign marks the querent's interest, worries, objectives, etc that relate to the question that was asked. If you factor in the Moon's movement to a diferent sign, all of this factors would change and relate to the new sign instead, and the representation the Moon has would be different than before.

In most of these cases, I personally would still classify the Moon as "void". However, there is a large difference of opinion from astrologer to astrologer, and I accept the different interpretations for it.

To clarify though, in birth charts, it wouldn't be considered void. But it should be noted that the interpretation of a void Moon in birth charts is much different than one in an horary chart.
 
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