What proof is there that pisces is co-ruled by jupiter?

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Saturn brings out only the worst qualities of Aquarius.
Uranian influence brings out both the good and the bad.
'...Saturn predominates matters related to earth,

but also to water

because the element is most abundant in cold...' :smile:
I like the word ''predomination'' because the temperament of the place
could be related to many planets
like the heat of Leo is related to both Sun and Mars, but
because Leo is moderately, not extremely dry, it is predominated by the Sun.
Similarly, the cold of Aquarius is related to both Saturn and Moon, but
because Aquarius is the coldest sign, it is predominated by Saturn
and not by the Moon.
 

petosiris

Banned
JA, earth and water share the quality of cold, the former has it moderately, the latter has it abundantly :smile:

Earth is dry and moderately cold
Water is cold and moderately moist

Saturn as cooling and moderately drying is related to both, as can be seen from his exaltation in Libra (earthy sign), but domiciles in Capricorn and Aquarius (watery signs).
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
JA, earth and water share the quality of cold,

the former has it moderately, the latter has it abundantly :smile:
Earth is dry and moderately cold
Water is cold and moderately moist
Saturn as cooling and moderately drying is related to both, as can be seen
from his exaltation in Libra (earthy sign), but domiciles in Capricorn
and Aquarius (watery signs).
good points thanks :smile:
meanwhile with reference to Jupiter and Pisces

Sagittarius and Pisces are both windy and increase moisture, in the same way
that Gemini and Virgo are both changeable and increase dryness.
In this way their temperament involve Jupiter and Mercury respectively,

although contrary to popular belief, the nature of each sign actually consists of an admixture that is similar to multiple planets - https://i.imgur.com/OJUpA8e.png
 
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petosiris

Banned
Of the two luminaries, Sun is given masculine Leo and Moon feminine Cancer and both luminaries oppose the Dark Lord Saturn who is Lord of the Planets. Light opposing Dark. Saturn's in the deep cold, while Sun is warm and toasty and certain Moon phases are warm and toasty.

Why is Saturn lord of the planets? Moon warm and toasty? Why is Mars exalted in deep cold, but depressed in warm and toasty sign? Well check out my explanation of the house of the Moon inspired by Ptolemy's explanations of Jupiter and Mars' exaltations and falls.

Cancer, by reason of being the most northern place receives an admixture of extreme northern winds that are cold and moist, so it is constituted the house of the Moon.
Capricorn is southern elevation of Mars, because this place receives an admixture of extreme southern that which are burning, drying and destructive, by reason of being the most southern place.
Cancer is northern depression of Mars, because this place receives an admixture of extreme northern winds which are moist and fecund.

I present the first consistent explanation of houses and exaltations, no geometrical or figurative language is being used, for that can only be a result and not a cause in astrology:
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=130894
 
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Kite

Well-known member
The domiciles (houses) deal with the matters of our day to day reality. The kind of reality that Saturn puts limits on. The 7 planets have to with the 7 rays of creation referenced in ancient texts. There is a cosmology behind this arrangement. You can see it in the Kabbalistic Tree of Life where the dualities of rulerships of the domiciles can easily be seen. Since we are talking about the reality under the dictate of Saturn, the outer planets deal with transcendent issues. They cannot rule the domiciles though they can find affinity with the houses and signs. They also have correspondences in the upper parts of the Tree of Life --Beyond the Sefirah called Binah which is associated with Saturn, the Elohim and means Understanding. I could get into a whole riff on Kabbalah but it's suffice to say that this is not a case of the ancients not knowing of planets beyond Saturn. We know from our cosmology of the Chaos (Uranus), the Waters (Neptune) and the Darkness (Pluto), that there has always been the transcendent and the descendant. Assigning transcendent rulers to descendant houses interferes with the traditional ecosystem.
 

AJ Astrology

Well-known member
Why is Saturn lord of the planets?

Hi petosiris,

You'd have to go back to the very beginning when the names of Jupiter and Saturn were ki.shar (lord of the Earth) and an.shar (lord of the Heavens).

Moon warm and toasty?
It is when it's waxing.

Why is Mars exalted in deep cold, but depressed in warm and toasty sign?
Mars is nocturnal.

Well check out my explanation of the house of the Moon inspired by Ptolemy's explanations of Jupiter and Mars' exaltations and falls.
Ptolemy made things up as he went along. Valens doesn't say anything about it and neither do others, because it's nonsense.
 

AJ Astrology

Well-known member
What was Disney thinking? :unsure:

Anyway, there's an ancient religious connection involved with a planet named P!uto and the Sign called Scorpio. The ancient Babylonians pictured the constellation of the Scorpion with ancient Egypt in mind. And, the most important god of Egypt was Osirus, transformed by the Hellenists into their god of the Underworld, Pluto.
The Romans originally had their own name for the god, "Dis Pater", but later changed it to Pluto. Pluto and Apollo are the only Greek deities I know of with the same exact name in Latin as in the Greek. Ouranos, Greek god of the Heavens, was known as "Caelus" in Latin.

Hi david starling,

What kind of nonsense is that?

First, it's not "Dis Pater" it's Dyas-piter. There's a difference.

Dyas-piter is Hindi, as in Indian.

Familiar with the Hungarian town Gyula? Google.

Gyula and Dyas have something in common linguistically. The "gy" in Magyar and the "dy" in Hindi are the same sound phonetically as "dj" in Slavic languages.

The "dj" and "gy" and "dy" sounds are the same phonetically as the pronunciation of "j" in English "judges" or "Jupiter."

Get it?

Dyas-piter equates to Jupiter. The word "Dis Pater" is a very good example of a poor and disturbingly bad transliteration (which is why there is more than 100 spellings of the name of the former Libyan head-of-State Ghaddafi by stupid idiotic journalists who are clueless about transliteration).

Roman Jupiter equates to Greek Zeus.

You're pronouncing "Zeus" wrong.

The "z" in ancient Greek is equivalent to "dj" in Slavic and "gy" in Magyar and "dy" in Hindi and the "j" in English "judges" and "Jupiter."

Thus....the correct English transliteration of the ancient Greek Zeus is Jeus. It's called a "fricative shift." See Grimm's Law.

To which "Babylonians" are you referring?

There are three totally different "Babylonians."

The, um, "Babylonians" who gained power circa 1830 BCE were Amorites. I assure you they knew nothing of Magan (Egypt).

About 3 centuries later circa 1530 BCE they were overthrown by the Cassites (the biblical "Kush" in Genesis).

Some "Babylonians" regained control circa 1125 BCE. They weren't exactly Amorites. Well, some of them were. Some of them were Akkadian, and Sumerian, some Elamites from Elam, Mari, Nuzi, Mitanni, some Hurrians. Suffice to say they were a cosmopolitan group linked only by the Aramaic language.

They certainly knew where Egypt was, but not much else about Egypt.

They got overthrown by the Assyrians in 729 BCE, and then some of the remnants of old Babylon tossed the Assyrians in 612 BCE, and Chaldean would be more historically accurate than Babylonian (and then the Chaldeans were tossed by the Medo-Persians in 529 BCE).

In any event, none of those "Babylonians" would have had Osiris and ancient Egypt in mind, especially since the zodiac existed before they existed and was handed down to them.

Your claim that Osiris was "the most important god" is highly subjective, baseless and without merit.

Name one pharaoh who took the name Osiris?

I can name dozens and dozens of pharaohs who took the names of Ra, On/An/Amen, Ptah, Thoth, Ankh, Horus, Seth, Dedi and others.

For example, Dedumoses means "emanating from Dedi."

If, as you claim, Osiris is "the most important god" then why didn't any pharaohs take the name of Osiris?

Only a non-Egyptian bereft of any knowledge of Egypt would claim Osiris was "the most important god."

The Greek god of the underworld was Hades, not Osiris and certainly not Pluto.

Pluto was the Roman/Latin name for Hades.

Neptune is the Latin name for the Greek Poseidon.

Your attempt to rewrite history is not going very well.
 

AJ Astrology

Well-known member
Here's my reason for the Sun and Moon having being given rulership of only one Sign apiece, and the planets each ruling two: The Sun and Moon move in only one direction, and the planets have both Direct and Retrograde movement.

Hi david starling,

The luminaries are, well, luminaries and not planets. The ancients understood that, and because they are luminaries and not planets, they have one sign each.

For example, the fast-transiting planet Mercury, as "the messenger of the gods".

Yes, his name was originally mum.mu "the messenger."

In my Modernistic opinion, the ONLY reason Jupiter was given rulership of both Sagittarius and Pisces, is the limited combination of 7 Rulers and 12 Signs.

No, that is not why.

This graphic is very instructive:


attachment.php



See?


Sun is day sect ruler.


Moon is night sect ruler.


It's all very logical and orderly and understanding sect is really important. Of course, I'm assuming people want to interpret charts accurately.
 

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david starling

Well-known member
Hi david starling,

The luminaries are, well, luminaries and not planets. The ancients understood that, and because they are luminaries and not planets, they have one sign each.



Yes, his name was originally mum.mu "the messenger."



No, that is not why.

This graphic is very instructive:


attachment.php



See?


Sun is day sect ruler.


Moon is night sect ruler.


It's all very logical and orderly and understanding sect is really important. Of course, I'm assuming people want to interpret charts accurately.

No reason why a luminary couldn't rule two signs, unless you accept Ptolemy's opinion that the Sun is too masculine to rule a "feminine" sign, and vice versa for the Moon.

Also the very neat and tidy diagram you posted is disrupted by the addition of another ruling planet. How can sect be applied regarding the additional rulers?
 

petosiris

Banned
Hi petosiris,

You'd have to go back to the very beginning when the names of Jupiter and Saturn were ki.shar (lord of the Earth) and an.shar (lord of the Heavens).

???

It is when it's waxing.

But it is cold when it is waning in your estimation? Why does it rule Cancer when it is waning then?

Mars is nocturnal.

So what? There are 6 nocturnal signs where his exaltation could be placed in?

Jupiter is diurnal, yet his exaltation is in Cancer.

Ptolemy made things up as he went along. Valens doesn't say anything about it and neither do others, because it's nonsense.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Read Manilius' mythological explanation of Mars' exaltation in Capricorn. It does not differ from Ptolemy in reasoning.

According to Ptolemy, ''Mars, which by nature is fiery and becomes all the more so in Capricorn because in it he is farthest south, naturally received Capricorn as his exaltation, in contrast to Jupiter, and Cancer as his depression.'' - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/1B*.html#19 Ptolemy associates south with the warm winds. The rationale behind Mars being strengthened in Capricorn is confirmed by Manilius, who associates it with a goddess of a hearth.

''In her shrine Vesta tends your fires, Capricorn : and from her you derive your skills and callings. For whatever needs fire to function and demands a renewal of flame for its work must be counted as of your domain. To pry for hidden metals, to smelt out riches deposited in the veins of the earth, to fold sure-handed the malleable mass— these skills will come from you, as will aught which is fashioned of silver or gold. That hot furnaces melt iron and bronze, and ovens give to the wheat its final form, will come as gifts from you. You also give a fondness for clothes and wares which dispel the cold, since your lot falls for all time in winter’s season, wherein you shorten the nights you have brought to their greatest length and give birth to a new year by enlarging the daylight hours.'' - Goold, G. P. (Ed.). (1977). The Loeb Classical Library.: Manilius, Astronomica. Harvard University Press.

I wonder who is giving me made up nonsense explanations - Manilius, Ptolemy or you?
 
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petosiris

Banned
No reason why a luminary couldn't rule two signs, unless you accept Ptolemy's opinion that the Sun is too masculine to rule a "feminine" sign, and vice versa for the Moon.

Also the very neat and tidy diagram you posted is disrupted by the addition of another ruling planet. How can sect be applied regarding the additional rulers?

Ptolemy's explanation is simply inadequate unless you take into account the chapter on the exaltations. Then you have close to correct admixtures of the signs in relation to the seasons.

The solar and lunar halves are a thing, and were often used in Hellenistic and Arabic astrology. Personally, I prefer the more common differentiation by the triangles/alternation, where Aries, Gemini and Aquarius are diurnal, and Virgo, Scorpio and Capricorn are nocturnal. Manilius mentions two alternative systems involving the Aries and Cancer triangles as diurnal and ''spring-summer' semicircle Aries-Virgo as diurnal, while the ''autumn-winter'' semicircle as nocturnal. In any case, the differentiation by triangles (Aries and Libra as diurnal, Cancer and Capricorn as nocturnal) was most common and is used by Ptolemy, Valens, Dorotheus amongst others. Hephaistio of Thebes favoured the solar and lunar halves for the sect of the signs actually. This one looks to be the second most popular, though it seems to contradict the masculine triangles of the equinoxes. So there are 4 differentiations of the sect of the signs in Hellenistic astrology, though 2 appear only in Manilius (he doesn't endorse them, but reports on the systems in usage at the time that he knows of).
 
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Bunraku

Well-known member
Neptune ruling Pisces plays such an important and crucial role in modern astrology because modern astrology places a heavy emphasis on the usage of dignities. You can see this is extremely important in this thread and discussion. This is fundamentally the most important aspect, and without this distinction that Neptune belongs in Pisces, the very foundations of astrology falls apart and natal delineations cease to become coherent.
 

petosiris

Banned
Neptune ruling Pisces plays such an important and crucial role in modern astrology because modern astrology places a heavy emphasis on the usage of dignities. You can see this is extremely important in this thread and discussion. This is fundamentally the most important aspect, and without this distinction that Neptune belongs in Pisces, the very foundations of astrology falls apart and natal delineations cease to become coherent.

boTh nEptUnE aNd jUpiTer aRe sPiriTUaL pLaNetS, BUt nEptUnE aNd tHE tWelvTh aRe mOrE sO tHaN jUpiTer aNd tHE nInTH
 
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