What does it mean to grow up?

[Blaze]

Hi there. First, I don't expect a lot of replies to this topic. It's not the nature of this forum to get a lot of talking done, unless someone brings up a Pluto war, haha. Anyway, I'm not looking for any real discussion, just want to hear what "growing up" was like for [you].

This will probably be a bit of a ramble, forgive me.

See, I'm only 25 years old. 25, the age when one's Saturn return is on it's way. The age when one should be a...well, grown up. But what does that mean? I look around me and see people my age with kids or a career or some kind of time consuming commitment and they tell me that's what being a "grown up" is. But is that it? Keeping oneself so busy with mundane routine's that one doesn't realize how dull life becomes? Perhaps I'm just too immature and my view of "growing up" is flawed. Perhaps with more time I'll "wake up" and get what growing up is supposed to mean, I don't know.

Was there a moment in your life when you grew up? What does growing up mean to you?

P.S. I was tempted to not make this thread, but I'm sick of keeping thoughts locked down in my head and figured it'd be better to hear (Or read in this case) what others think on the matter.

 

[Kitchy]

Hello Blaze -

I like what you put forth - open questioning.

Personally, I felt at turning 23 the same grow-up thing - but I attribute it to my pending Jupiter return at 24 - which shortly thereafter conjuncted my natal Saturn.

For some, growing up means nothing more than surviving the years - for others it is about how we have molded, or have had molded, our place in our environment.

The first Saturn return (why be so anxious about it at age 25?) is, to me, the first phase of accepting full responsibility and mastery of what has come to know of life - and with that - discarding the wishcraft days of "One day, I'm gonna be a .........." and replaced with "If I want to be a...... I better start getting serious about it"

This is the fun part of the Saturn return - realizing that until you roll up your sleeves and dig in - you will not accomplish anything on your own, rather it will only come and happen - by providence, misery or some other fate - and even then, Saturn will nag and remind you during the following squares that you really didn't work for what you have - it simply worked for you.

The fun begins at the 1st Saturn return. I think the first 'growing up' realization comes at the first transiting square to natal Saturn return. which is about age 35.

 

[amaranthinefall]

Re: To grow up means to grow in.

Blaze: same age, similar perspective. My theory is everyone's trying to fill a hole. With whatever they can. People our age and younger having kids seem to be the least mature. The ones working nonstop seem to value themselves the least. Those in school full-time are usually less intelligent. And the most creative and special people seem to become drug addicts. It's a strange world. In my opinion, at this age, people like us are the most mature. We're finding ourselves, trying to understand the deeper rhythms and patterns of life, exploring the inner and outer, to live better. Very ninth house. Whether we travel physically or just mentally, we're on a journey, and the journey is the destination. Of course we're looked at with a head-tilt, because we're not doing what everyone else is doing. But what's that quote, in a insane world, the sane are called insane, or something like that. You get what I'm saying. I think growing up comes when you realize that nothing can fill that hole, and nothing should, because that's where God lives inside each of us. So if you're ever doubting yourself, feeling lonely, whatever the case may be, be thankful that you're not as "simple" as the rest of the flock. Because ignorance isn't bliss, it's hell. Peace be with you, my friend.

 

[waybread]

Re: To grow up means to grow in.

I don't think it's the same for each person, but at least some of the following pertain:

1. Having your own source of income sufficient to support yourself.
2. Either moving out of your parent's (parents') home or fully contributing to its upkeep, household chores, and paying rent.
3. Having and raising your own child (children.)
4. Taking responsibility for your life.
5. Doing what you say you are going to do, without keeping one foot on the exit ramp.
6. Taking responsibility for your own boredom. Finding a job, &c. that keeps you mentally and emotionally engaged; and getting the education or skills necessary to get it.

 

[Flapjacks]

I've been devoting thought to this as well, being in the middle of my Saturn return. I believe growing up means having a deeper awareness of the world, my presence in it, and the passage of time. It forces me to make decisions about my life with full responsibility for the consequences (even the unforeseen ones). The awareness can come about from several sources, from having aches a pains that weren't there before to wondering about why I haven't had children, or deciding on a trajectory for my career, figuring out how to position myself to take care of my parents when they advance in age, finding a home, fine tuning and articulating my principles, and so on. It all relates back to the new awareness.

The other day I was trying to remember when I first stopped being afraid of the dark. I believe we grow up in stages - not all at once - and no longer being afraid of the dark was one of those growing up moments that I didn't notice. I almost didn't notice when things stopped being magical; everyday things, like the rainbow light on the wall from a polished crystal, or the feeling of wind on my face while swinging on a swingset, or this poster (my dad's roommate had this poster when I was seven and I stared at it for long periods. I must have tried to draw it at least a dozen times). It seemed to happen around the time of the first tSaturn opposition to natal Saturn - at fifteen to sixteen, the same time period I began to be interested in sexual relationships.

Growing up, in part, is losing innocence. I remember mourning it in my nightmares when I was seventeen. I had the dreams I had when I was a toddler, except they were perverted with violence and vulgarity that woke me up in tears. It wasn't exposure to vulgarity that cost me innocence, but the understanding of what is sordid and what is not.

Vulgar was confusing as a kid. I heard Don Henley's "Dirty Laundry" on the radio when I was eight and thought that was vulgar, but my mother corrected me that it was not. The world "dirty" is a bad word sometimes, I knew, so dirty laundry is a euphemism for something vulgar, so isn't the song vulgar? I just didn't get it: the euphemisms make it ok. Euphemisms are evidence that we are embarrassed by our lack of innocence, so to someone who is innocent, it means nothing.

Growing up happened when I first realized that adults were imperfect. Growing up happened when I discovered I could take care of others. Growing up happened when I saw what I could accomplish tasks without extra assistance (it is weird how that lesson keeps repeating, just with higher and higher stakes). Growing up happens when I keep missing my childhood. Growing up keeps happening.

To go back to the dark and the magic: growing up means it is easy to forget that there are unknowable things because there is so much to do about what you do know. I believe that is why the magic disappears, and why I don't worry about things lurking in the dark. Wonder is no longer an easy grab for the new Earthling, I need to keep pushing boundaries to find it.

 

[Inline]

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[Flapjacks]

Growing up is taking responsibility.

During my Saturn return, i naively gave up my responsibility to an imperfect adult and paid for it.....The consequences of it i still feel today. The strange thing is, that the opportunity to give up my responsibility keeps showing up over and over again, and i still feel a pang to fall for it....and if it weren't for the horrible experience during my Saturn return, i would.

So, growing up during your Saturn return can show you where your 'weakest link' is...

And if you meet it face on, you will be stronger for it. But if you fail as i did unfortunately, it will keep coming back over and over in different places, just to check to see if you can resist, or not.

How is Saturn positioned in your chart? It seems that would show where you "fall". My Saturn is in the 6th (conjunct DSC) and rules the 8th. I am finding much of my confrontations with responsibility are happening in the work place and started two years ago; being asked to take on more responsibility than I thought was fair and didn't think I was capable of... and then realizing I was capable because backing down wasn't an option. Now that I realize I am capable, the second decision is whether I really want take the responsibility.

I end up in these roles were I need authority to get my job done, and basically demand it. The amazing thing is that I am trusted with it readily by those senior to me. I am just waiting to be knocked down any moment but it hasn't come yet. Maybe as long as I keep stepping to the plate it will all be okay.

Yet, I really want to leave and be free. I have an out, too. I could quit my job and let a husband provide for me (that age old dilemma). The temptation is there because my boyfriend has voiced opinions of wanting to do that for me (his Saturn is conjunct my ASC, and it is his chart ruler). Maybe you are right that it would just haunt me and makes things worse.


Interesting: Three separate people my age on facebook are making posts about not wanting to grow up. What transits are happening, here?

 

[waybread]

At 29 and under, do you qualify as millennials or not? Regardless, this would be the group with "helicopter moms" afraid to let their children make a mistake. Adults whose childhoods were spent largely under some form of adult supervision or other (organized sports, lessons) vs. just getting to play with other kids in the neighbourhood?

I've noticed an odd trend (if it is that) with this and some other posts I've read by 3 or 4 young adults, which seems to be an absence of feeling they can change the course of their life if it tends to be going a certain way. Life happens, feelings happen, and the person is more of an observer than an actor. Life just seems to happen external to their choices.

From the OP: "Perhaps with more time I'll "wake up" and get what growing up is supposed to mean, I don't know."

Possibly the real answer to the OP is that feeling grown up is a choice, not something external to your choice to feel grown up.

 

[amaranthinefall]

waybread: The political and economic climate probably has much to do with the trend you notice, along with the general postmodern nihilism and apathy. In addition it seems my generation is getting "parented" longer than in past. I agree completely that it is a choice. But I think as well many people make choices under the impression that they're "choosing to be grown up", when really they're just avoiding making that choice.

Blaze: The best people are usually the most childlike (not childish). Don't fret over where you're at; it's exactly where you need to be. The fact of you thinking about this and putting it out there says you're more mature than most.

 

[ashriia]

Growing up to me, real maturity comes with realizing you are in complete control over your own happiness. Your reactions, the people you surround yourself with are all part of that. I think alot of people spend so much of their lives lamenting or blaming other people for their unhappiness. Blaming everything outside of themselves ...but never taking a step back to say...Look how this person makes me feel, why don't I leave them, let go, not surround myself with them..and follow thru with it.

Or with a job... I hate my job. Why not take an active role in looking for something new..and leave it.

Additionally, and kind of an aside, but what you choose to spend your time doing/reading/watching/exposing yourself to is part of that process as well.
Taking control in that arena, is such brilliant decision and life changing!

Anyway, I think when you reach the point where you realize your happiness is in your hands, and take an active role in it. There is really no going back. Its a place of True Power. This is what growing up has meant at least to me.

Because the best job, all the money in the world, kids, a house, death, love, loss, marriage, divorce, a horse and a pony. Is never going to come near to the magnitude of being an active, cognizant participant in your own happiness IMO. Which may seem controversial of an opinion but I'm sticking to it. And I'm somewhere near middle age. So it might change, but I don't think so as I can't see how.

There was a quote I read years ago by some mystic or astrologer or someone..I forget exactly who, but it was a book from the 70s that I read once. The author said.. "if you don't like where you live, then leave" "if you don't like who you are, then change". Very simple. 100% life changing.

 

[david starling]

As a member of the "Peter Pan" generation which "came of age" in the 1960's, it looks like I'll never "grow up". But I never had even one child, much less children; and I think that may be a crucial factor. My problem is about getting in touch with my "inner adult". I relate much better to the young people than the old. And I'm very impressed with the younger generations, and can easily put myself in their place and understand what they're going through.

 

[waybread]

ashriia, I agree. Happiness is a choice. I came to that realization late in life, notwithstanding considerable participation in one of the human potential movements in the 1980s & early 90s.

Happiness can also be a state of grace. But this more typically happens to people who are open to it.

Sometimes people have strong reasons for not changing their unhappy locations, jobs, relationships, &c, but we also have the choice to change our negativity about them. And maybe that's part of maturity, too, in recognizing commitments that are higher priorities than our personal happiness.

Mind you, some children are born as wise old souls. Someone with a Virgo or Gemini sun or ascendant may be the perpetual youth. And maybe that's who they're on the planet to be.

But even they can't forestall the inevitable ageing process.

And if we're at all ambitious about our lives, at some point, we have to step into the persona that supports our goals and dreams.

 

[david starling]

The young tend to do what they want. It's the "adults" who get stuck doing what they've been taught they must, even at the expense of their own feelings (and health); and at the expense of the feelings and health of others. So maybe the young at heart are more "grown up" than those who identify themselves as adults. Being considerate of the needs of others isn't incompatible with having a young outlook. Try not to let the Saturn-Effect (which includes aging and adversity) devour your inner- Child. Easier for some than for others--it's an affair of the Chart.

 

[Flapjacks]

At 29 and under, do you qualify as millennials or not? Regardless, this would be the group with "helicopter moms" afraid to let their children make a mistake. Adults whose childhoods were spent largely under some form of adult supervision or other (organized sports, lessons) vs. just getting to play with other kids in the neighbourhood?

I've noticed an odd trend (if it is that) with this and some other posts I've read by 3 or 4 young adults, which seems to be an absence of feeling they can change the course of their life if it tends to be going a certain way. Life happens, feelings happen, and the person is more of an observer than an actor. Life just seems to happen external to their choices.

From the OP: "Perhaps with more time I'll "wake up" and get what growing up is supposed to mean, I don't know."

Possibly the real answer to the OP is that feeling grown up is a choice, not something external to your choice to feel grown up.

This is very insightful to say. I didn't have "helicopter" parenting but I think this is a cultural shift that is not particular to a generation but a time period. We're taught to assume that we aren't allowed to do most things. A common response to a problem is: "No one asked me to fix it, so I'm probably not supposed to" or "who is approved to handle this? I can't do anything until they get here." But, what if no one comes? What if the one who does comes is as clueless as you are? What if discouraging active participation in your own life is what allows others to profit off of you? Everything is proprietary, ignorance is encouraged (all the while telling people they have access to all the knowledge in the universe or some superlative), everything requires a license or permit, and heaven forbid you interact with others without going to an authority first (everyone is dangerous) - Sue first, ask questions later (or just sue).

One evening I parked my car at my apartment in the adjacent space to my spot. It was dark and I was tired, my mistake. The next morning, I found a notice on my car from the impound saying that if I didn't move it in two hours it would be towed (thankfully I left the house early enough!). It was then I realized I parked in the wrong space. The thing is, the parking spaces have our apartment numbers on them. My neighbor could have knocked on my door and asked me to move the car without immediately requesting my car get towed (I wonder if the authorities even asked her if she contacted me first). I knocked on her door but no one answered, so I wrote her a note of apology and gave her my contact info for any further problems. I saw her a couple weeks later as we were leaving the building at the same time and found out it was a girl that looked to be in her early twenties. She smiled coyly at me, so I smiled back.

How are we to find a course for our lives when we must always ask someone else to negotiate for us?

I was listening to Johnny Cash's "A Boy Named Sue" and felt really shocked with the idea that it might be okay to deal with others directly and passionately (of course, the song is a comical hyperbole, but that is the point). This song would not make it on the airwaves if it were written today.

Todays norm is a passive, self-defeating mindset that I noticed in myself years ago and have had to break. I see it in people of all ages. There are many things that go into it, but my boyfriend has a (pretty compelling) theory that this is in large part due to insurance becoming omnipresent in daily life, but that is another story.

Growing up to me, real maturity comes with realizing you are in complete control over your own happiness. Your reactions, the people you surround yourself with are all part of that. I think alot of people spend so much of their lives lamenting or blaming other people for their unhappiness. Blaming everything outside of themselves ...but never taking a step back to say...Look how this person makes me feel, why don't I leave them, let go, not surround myself with them..and follow thru with it.

Or with a job... I hate my job. Why not take an active role in looking for something new..and leave it.

Additionally, and kind of an aside, but what you choose to spend your time doing/reading/watching/exposing yourself to is part of that process as well.
Taking control in that arena, is such brilliant decision and life changing!

Anyway, I think when you reach the point where you realize your happiness is in your hands, and take an active role in it. There is really no going back. Its a place of True Power. This is what growing up has meant at least to me.

Because the best job, all the money in the world, kids, a house, death, love, loss, marriage, divorce, a horse and a pony. Is never going to come near to the magnitude of being an active, cognizant participant in your own happiness IMO. Which may seem controversial of an opinion but I'm sticking to it. And I'm somewhere near middle age. So it might change, but I don't think so as I can't see how.

There was a quote I read years ago by some mystic or astrologer or someone..I forget exactly who, but it was a book from the 70s that I read once. The author said.. "if you don't like where you live, then leave" "if you don't like who you are, then change". Very simple. 100% life changing.

The trouble is figuring out the difference between running away and making a conscious decision to change your attitude or circumstances.

 

[david starling]

If you find yourself in a really, untenable situation, a "leap in the dark" may be required, without knowing exactly where you'll land. Is that a "grown-up" ability, or is envisioning yourself as grown-up a liability? In other words, is " growing up" a process of disappointment and disillusionment resulting in a loss of hope and faith? Older, but meaner and more pessimistic? Flapjacks, I think you may be talking about "self actualization", not "growing up", and congratulations on having acheived it! As for me, "I wish I didn't know now, what I didn't know then..." Most of the "adults", the "grown-ups" can't take care of themselves, much less everyone else. We're on our own.

 

[ashriia]

Sometimes people have strong reasons for not changing their unhappy locations, jobs, relationships, &c, but we also have the choice to change our negativity about them. And maybe that's part of maturity, too, in recognizing commitments that are higher priorities than our personal happiness.

Happiness can also be a state of grace. But this more typically happens to people who are open to it.

Commitments and responsibility to children/senior parents or sick/ill family members blood related or other.. I completely understand. Definitely. That falls under emotional maturity when you are sacrificing your own desires for the sake of caring for your loved ones. But even if you cannot make a drastic change, you can make the best out of the situation by creating your happiness regardless. That is always in your own hands IMO.

But i think staying in bad situations for too long will catch up with you sooner or later, if changes aren't made. By that I mean, overall health. I strongly believe this is how illness/disease is formed. nevermind genetics.

 

[david starling]

Commitments and responsibility to children/senior parents or sick/ill family members blood related or other.. I completely understand. Definitely. That falls under emotional maturity when you are sacrificing your own desires for the sake of caring for your loved ones. But even if you cannot make a drastic change, you can make the best out of the situation by creating your happiness regardless. That is always in your own hands IMO.

But i think staying in bad situations for too long will catch up with you sooner or later, if changes aren't made. By that I mean, overall health. I strongly believe this is how illness/disease is formed. nevermind genetics.

Good advice, especially for anyone with strong Piscean influence in their natal chart.

 

[Flapjacks]

If you find yourself in a really, untenable situation, a "leap in the dark" may be required, without knowing exactly where you'll land. Is that a "grown-up" ability, or is envisioning yourself as grown-up a liability? In other words, is " growing up" a process of disappointment and disillusionment resulting in a loss of hope and faith? Older, but meaner and more pessimistic? Flapjacks, I think you may be talking about "self actualization", not "growing up", and congratulations on having acheived it! As for me, "I wish I didn't know now, what I didn't know then..." Most of the "adults", the "grown-ups" can't take care of themselves, much less everyone else. We're on our own.

This reminds me of the two views of Saturn as a bringer of misfortune and a force to overcome challenges. Why does growing up need to be a bad thing? I don't think you could reach self-actualization without growing up first. The are intertwined. When viewed positivity, envisioning oneself as being grown up gives one the strength to get through tough parts of life and those leaps into the dark. You've seen those westerns where the dad says to his son, "you're a man now, you can protect the ranch" or what-have-you. The disappointment and disillusionment isn't because the boy can now protect the ranch, but that the ranch needs protecting at all. Maybe the boy becomes mean and pessimistic when he needs to ward off marauders and thieves, but that is not required. He can rise above it, if he chooses.

 

[david starling]

I'll accept the idea that the best version of "growing up" is self actualization. When a sapling grows tall enough, it gets its own place in the Sun, out from under the shadows of the larger trees. But, just for fun, what if the rancher's son wants to leave the ranch and maybe get an education? In that case, his father's version of growing up runs counter to becoming who he really is.

 

[waybread]

The young tend to do what they want. It's the "adults" who get stuck doing what they've been taught they must, even at the expense of their own feelings (and health); and at the expense of the feelings and health of others. So maybe the young at heart are more "grown up" than those who identify themselves as adults. Being considerate of the needs of others isn't incompatible with having a young outlook. Try not to let the Saturn-Effect (which includes aging and adversity) devour your inner- Child. Easier for some than for others--it's an affair of the Chart.

David, I had a pretty long and rigorous education, plus strict and demanding parents. Then most people have to work to support themselves, and no job is going to be 100% joyful all the time. Getting to do what I want actually has been most possible in my retirement.