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Message: <blockquote data-quote="piercethevale" data-source="post: 1046660" data-attributes="member: 5785">I truly understand what you are faced with as to how these Sabian Symbols relate as to the planets and luminaries in ones natal chart.I have found it to be an easier task to understand these symbols as they relate to the chart axis [the "WHO", "WHERE-TO", "HOW", and "WHY" of your present incarnation and as they apply to a great many of the Astrological Parts... not all the PARTS, as for the reasons that some of those Parts presently accepted as being legitimate are quite obviously wrongfully titled and some, even though, they are given a correct title...or at least an adequate one... are of a precept that isn't easily understood to begin with>That the Part of Fortune derived from that natal chart that I contend is actually that of Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth is in the 19th degree of Pisces and has as its Sabian Symbolism, ''A MASTER INSTRUCTS HIS DISCIPLE"  it may well be the prime, the perfect, the penultimate example of just how easily these symbols can be understood in some contexts. ...and in this example, also how they can help us to understand what any particular Astrological Part actually serves in function as to.As I have often written, the Part of Fortune is a bit misleading by the title it has been given in the English language. I don't even know what the title given for it in Arabic is the same as the word "fortune" or if there is even an equivalent for that word in Arabic., but as it is one of the Astrological Parts so titled as an "Arabic Part", as it is from the Arabs that this knowledge was passed on to Occidental societies, then it is to the Arabic language that this question must be addressed to. [They may have in turn got this knowledge from India and the Vedic sources, or it may have been one of the ancient Persian empires, or another ancient civilization that was of the regions the Arabs had contact with?]. It has nothing to do with a "fortune" that is of wealth based on specie, bank notes, precious metals, or jewels.  Such a concept as "money" is not a Divine precept, but is rather a man-made concept. It tells us right in the Bible that God gave to humankind the harvest of the fields, the bounty of the seas, by which to clothe and feed us, the cool waters from which to quench our thirst and the earth for which to lay down upon and rest our weariness when we are tired. No where in the Good Book does it say that one must work a forty hour week so as to earn money to pay for such things... they are our God given legacy. In fact the Hebrews were forbidden to charge rent for any land that they had to loan out to someone else as for being incapable of using it all in any given season... as no one should have more land than they need to begin with... Yet, while they were forbidden to charge rent they were allowed to request a small percentage of the harvest yield in consideration for their act. Usury is a sin, period. ...and the charging of rent is usury.So then, what is the Part of Fortune? Well, as it does appear from the natal chart of topic here, it is then that by which one will achieve the most fortuitous results by which to provide them with the most propitious circumstances by which they could possibly have to fulfill their pre-ordained destiny, their dharma....as it was though the legacy left by Yeshu'a's disciples that has assisted Him the most in fulfilling that destiny He was divinely given... corruption of those "gospels" as to being true or not, or to some degree of such, aside. For without any accounting of the fact that He did live here on earth the brief 32 years and 14 days that He did,,, then His entire life spent here would have very likely been forgotten centuries ago and at best presently He would be a myth, if even that?So then, the particular Astrological and, as it is in this case Arabic, Part in question here is not about a "fortune" in a materialistic sense, or as "google" gives not as for the first of two definitions, i.e. 1. a large amount of money or assets."he eventually inherited a substantial fortune"  but rather that of the second definition google has to offer, 2. chance or luck as an external, arbitrary force affecting human affairs."some malicious act of fortune keeps them separate".The closest thing to being a poteential factor by which one might acquire more wealth is that Astrological, and also know as an Arabic, Part so titled the Part of Increase and Benefits. In ancient times [before "money" was invented] it would meant a bountiful croup, fecund livestock, and possibly even an abundance of sons and daughters, by which, made an agrarian lifestyle one less effort as for "Many hands make light the work", as the old adage goes. Gut nowadays as almost anything of "increase" and, or, "benefit" usually must be purchased then it would very likely also provide that when the aspects are in good stead with that Part. AsI pointed out in that first post for the thread of mine about this natal chart for Jesus/Yeshu'a that the chart produces the 2nd degree of Gemini for the Part of Increase and Benefits which according to Rudhyar's book on the Sabian Symbols is [ibid.]"GEMINI 2°: SANTA CLAUS FURTIVELY FILLING STOCKINGS HANGING IN FRONT OF THE FIREPLACE. KEYNOTE: A rewarded faith in spiritual blessings." in that the myth of Santa Claus being all about Christmas, and the birth of the "Christ child", it is so perfect a symbol, as given by the clairvoyant that was asked of it, in the particular instance of this natal chart that it makes it perfectly clear as to the story pertaining to when Yeshu'a/Jesus was asked by one of his disciples how they would pay for the ferry across an imposing river when they had no money between them, the disciple was told to simply look under a rock and to an obviously surprised disciple there it was in the exact amount needed. Was that because Yeshu'a had some kind of "X-Ray" vision, a siddhi of some kind or was it because He had such unwavering faith in the providence of the Divine that He knew it would be there because He was in simple earnest need ?As Dane Rudhyar wrote as for his analysis and explanation of the Sabian Symbol for the 2nd degree of Gemini it is easily discerned as to which of the two possibilities was the reason [ibid.] "The popular allegory refers to the spiritual blessings which come to the 'pure in heart', whose consciousness is likened to that of a little child. Polarized by eager expectation and faith in the existence of celestial Powers, the pure consciousness as yet un-solidified by ego and rationalistic arguments experiences the concrete manifestation of what it had imagined. In this symbol, Santa Claus acts 'furtively'. The gifts from an imagined and intensely believed in spiritual world must not be examined closely or at length by the reasoning intellect. The would-be clairvoyant is told not to look straight and intently at what he begins to 'see'; instead he should cast sideways glances at it, since the sharply focused mind would make the apparition vanish. At this second stage of the thirteenth five-fold sequence we have once more a symbol in contrast to the one for the first stage. In order to discover the wonders of the normally unconscious depths of the collective psyche, the individual has to build the proper kind of vehicle (a glass-bottomed boat); but the reception of new blessings from the spiritual realm above (the superconscious) requires mostly faith and purity of heart, and a common type of understanding (stockings) — thus a state of INNOCENCE."Hopefully here I've demonstrated how easily the Sabian Symbols can be understood as to how they apply to Astrological Parts, and my thread so titled as "Birth Chart of Jesus?" provides a somewhat as adequate means by which to understand as to how they apply to the chart axis and to other House cusps as well ... but...AS TO HOW THEY ARE TO BE UNDERSTOOD IN A RELATIVE WAY TO WHERE ONES NATAL PLANETS AND LUMINARIES ARE ISN'T QUITE SO EASILY DETERMINED... at least they haven't been for me. More so as to my own natal chart but rather difficult to see for that natal chart I contend is that of the Nazarene... for what do I, or anyone actually, truly knows about the man, himself?AS my natal Sun is in the following degree as to my Desc. and is conjunct in fact by less than a one degree orb of aspect, I have found that it lends that subsequent Sabian Symbolism to that of the Desc. in that it becomes a part of that answer as to "WHERE-TO". That my natal Moon is in the exact same degree as that of my nadir, it is one with the answer as to "HOW" in the sense as to a n interpretaion regarding the affairs of the mundane, and the same as to the answer as to "WHY", in that sense as to the affairs of my own spiritual evolution. Yet I also have a third influence, a planet, involved in yet another of the four points of the chart axis of my natal chart, Pluto at 20* Leo 48' in a less than a four degree orb of aspect to my mid haven, at 24* Leo 17', a conjunction and for which Pluto's Sabian Symbol lends its symbolism to theat of my mid haven, the answer as to  "HOW" of the interpretation regarding my spiritual evolution and the answer as to "WHY" of that interpretation regariding all affairs of the mundane.It was the Sabian Symbol for my natal Pluto that my brother first showed to me to bring me to the awareness that these Sabian Symbols do certainly have "something going" for them as I have written a number of times before [and possibly in this very thread also] of my first attempt at meditation using Japa yoga [the use of mantra] and the unexpected success that I had doing so in achieving a state of samadhi [oneness] with that mantra, and how my family knew of this. An achievement that many yogis never do obtain, not even after many years of diligent, sincere, and persistent effort... so unexpected, in fact I knew nothing about "samadhi" or the ways of yogis, and yoga, at the time as I was barely 15 years of age. Thus it was quite unexpected and one might even say quite premature... and as the Sabian Symbol for the 21st degree of Leo, that my natal Pluto is to be found within, the symbol as presented, and explained, by Dane Rudhyar will hopefully provide some additional understanding as to how the Sabians are to be understood in their relation to the planets [ibid.]"LEO 21°: INTOXICATED CHICKENS DIZZILY FLAP THEIR WINGS TRYING TO FLY. KEYNOTE: The often-negative and at times ludicrous first experience with spiritual teachings. In Near Eastern symbolism wine, intoxication, and vineyards always refer to ecstatic experiences and to the contact with mystical or occult schools. 'Chickens' here suggest that we are dealing with human beings who are the standardized products of their culture, and more or less undifferentiated specimens of a social norm. Brought accidentally or prematurely to mystical or occult experiences, they usually react to them in a highly confused and 'dizzy' manner. What reacts in them is the ego, and the ego can never 'fly' (i.e. experience spiritually transcendental realities in an effectual manner). This first symbol of the twenty-ninth five-fold sequence presents to us a picture of the unsatisfactory way many people today — especially young people — approach what purports to be spiritual reality. The 'food' may be intoxicating, consciousness-expanding, but the inner openings lack depth and constructiveness, whether or not they produce what appears to be wonderful feelings. One may speak here of the danger of PREMATURE EXPANSION OF CONSCIOUSNESS."As Pluto is the planet [oh, it certainly is a PLANET, and a most potent one at that.] of "Death and, or, Transformation" that experience of mine, in trying to meditate for the very first time, was one of profound transformation upon me. ...and it contributed greatly to the annihilation of my ego and my emotional being, as well as that of my personality. I have come to see my own natal chart axis as like a crucifix, where the Sun and Moon, conj. the Desc. and nadir, along with the Asc. which provides ones personality all being nailed to that cross and Pluto at the top, assuring that Death and Transformation that has been said to have occurred on such a similar kind of cross some 2000 years ago. Those three most essential elements of ones physical manifestation, which provide the ego, personality, and emotional being of a person all being crucified, put to death in a sense, so as a "transformation" will take place. I haven't yet made such a complete process but I've little doubt that before my time is up here it will have at least made a great deal more progress to that end, if it hasn't been successfully completed by that time.As I have been given to understand that my present life is one given by some sort of mutual agreement in service to a greater cause and that it was not to be made known to myself until I was well past 50 years of age, having been born a white [by appearance, by DNA analysis I am of at least four of the five races, i.e. White, Yellow, Red, and Black, and possibly also of the Brown race but that is only for lack of a database by which to determine that at this time, so I was told.] in the 1950's and grew up in Southern California during the 1950's and 1960's. and having been subjected to all that transpired in California during those years ...and for most all of my life actually... such a transformation isn't so easily accomplished as for the liberties I was allowed to have during those first fifty years of my life. "Old habits die hard", as the saying goes.Yet, look at my efforts to get this understanding across to the world, my political beliefs and causes I have supported, my cries out for societies to change their ways, for the politics to become a thing of the past and then consider that my natal Mars is in the 5th degree of Gemini and that it's Sabian Symbol is thus [ibid.]"GEMINI 5°: A REVOLUTIONARY MAGAZINE ASKING FOR ACTION. KEYNOTE: The explosive tendency of repressed feelings and root emotions. Every movement overstressing one direction calls forth in time an equally extreme movement in the opposite direction. This is particularly true at the level of the dualistic mind symbolized in the zodiac by Gemini. What is rigidly bound in form and convention tends to explode into formlessness. It may do so violently if socially oppressed — through revolution — or at the psychological level in psychosis; or it may withdraw inwardly into the mystical state in which one identifies with an unformulatable Reality. This fifth stage is related to the first, for it is the experience of a world of being so far unperceived by the everyday consciousness which starts the process. In the same sense a psychedelic experience may momentarily make the mind transparent to a non-ego-structured realm of consciousness, and may lead to a sustained attempt at understanding what has been revealed of a transcendent Reality. Whether the revolutionary action is violent or peaceful, bitterly resentful or loving, the one desire is TO REACH BEYOND ESTABLISHED FORMS....and what Dane wrote, as to specifically, "...a psychedelic experience may momentarily make the mind transparent to a non-ego-structured realm of consciousness, and may lead to a sustained attempt at understanding what has been revealed of a transcendent Reality. that considering what I've written in this post about my first attempt at meditation, just seems uncannily as if it was written for my own personal understanding... Or, take take a look at an old post of mine in the "Chat" and "Show Off Board" sub-forums  that is titled "Sprite, Faerie, or Deva Photos". Read what I wrote about those experiences and look at the two photos I have displayed of those entities and then consider that my natal Venus is in the 16th degree of Aries [ibid.]"ARIES 16°: NATURE SPIRITS ARE SEEN AT WORK IN THE LIGHT OF SUNSET. KEYNOTE: Attunement to the potency of invisible forces, of nature." ...and consider also that hose photos were taken during sunset. As to how it applys to the nature of my natal Venus in those things that Venus is to be regarded as ruling over, I still haven't an answer... but I have to say, as I certainly believe, those encounters of mine were far from just pure coincidence...and as they did first visit me in my apartment, most definitely not coincidental.But as in regards to the symbolism found for my natal Pluto and that it relates to an event I had at age 15, those of the "nature spirits" at age 54, the Sabian Symbols found for ones planets and luminaries may not be readily understood, nor understood for many, many, years after ones birth.But I do so recommend getting to know what those Sabian Symbols are for all of them... as for the reason that maybe someday, possibly one day off in the future...  Ya know?I hope this has been of some help for everyone</blockquote>

Verification: How many letters are in the word 'astrology'?