What am I tapping into?

piercethevale

Well-known member
BTW u.p. Phoenix Venus has a thread on the Star that is the one linked to the M.C. It's a few years old but I remember that she did a pretty good job of explaining it. Dane Rudhyar does bring it up in that chapter of his book titled "The Cross and the Star" but Dane wrote mostly about the "Cross" and little, in comparison, as to the "Star".
Dane, however, and despite of his brilliance he was at a disadvantage, one I was stunned to read of in that book "Aspects a Process Oriented Approach".. He wrote that although He had been studying astrology for many years [I'd say over 50 at the time the book was published] that in all those years he had only two examples of a Magen David matrix in his files, and both were incomplete, and a bit of a stretch in allowable orbs even...more than would allow myself, but He was the master. I cast no less than seven charts over a five year period [2002 to 2007] when I wasn't involved all that much other peoples astrology, other than close personal friends and these were for people I just casually met at one of the commercial venues in the neighborhood around where I lived at the time. A restaurant, a bar, a bookstore, one of the employees or patrons. It may have even been 8 or more, but I think it's safe to say at least 7 and they were in a lot tighter configuration and more complete than the two Dane had.

Was I just lucky, or what?

I'll never know... ya know?

I'll try to find that thread on the Star that P.V. initiated and I'll post a link if I do.
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
One final observation for this day... and I was going to mention it a lot sooner, but held off until I knew whether you even had heard of the Astrological Parts, [Arabic Parts, et al]
Your M.C. is in the exact same degree of the Sign of Leo as is the Part of Love and Appeciation derived from a natal chart that is the subject of the book I wrote, that I am convinced of beyond any doubt is the true natal chart of the Nazarene that some say was the pure embodiment of Gods' Love for all mankind.
You know who... just thought that you might like to know of that?
...and it was also the same for the gal that gave the inspiration and the needed information to have even begun anything at all. i.e. Miss X as she is identified in my book but has since come forward and revealed herself publicly, Ms Khris Toyra.
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
Good afternoon and happy new year.

As I have the book open this afternoon and you had inquired about two other aspects on your list of "possible suspects", that I hadn't yet gotten around to looking into, i.e. Mercury trine Uranus and Mercury trine Neptune. thought that I should take a break from other research and post here what my favorite handbook has to say about those. I'm just giving you here pertinent excerpts.
But first I do want to add, or make it clearly understood, that because of my belief that the asteroids are the remnants of a former planet and that it is yet still a legitimate and viable astrological influence, although at present the effects are at random and from any remnant at any time and of undetermined affect, thus I don't agree with the "Traditional" belief that the Signs of Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius, and Pisces are ruled by those planets given to be so at present, nor can I be certain as to exaltations and detriments of what planets are presently deemed to be as such in the same.
How Uranus became to be considered the ruler of Aquarius by the two authors, is beyond me, and Traditionalists consider Saturn to be the ruler of that Sign. As for Mercury being exalted in the Sign of Aquarius, that might possibly be true and if so then Uranus being the higher octave of Mercury then seemingly would be at least empowered in some manner by being placed in that Sign. As you have Mercury trine Uranus in such a tight aspect, an orb of less than a degree and a half, given that Uranus is in Aquarius and Mercury may actually be exalted in that Sign is then just all the more of overall powerful potential in your natal chart.
As for having to do with your paranormal/metaphysical experiences though, no, according to he pair.
[Late Edit. However they did write that Merc. trine Uranus will bestow intuitive flashes whenever you attune to the Universal mind, and that is a natural tendency, the attunement, of this aspect]

From the Astrologers Handbook by Sakoian and Acker.
Mercury Trine Uranus
"...well suited for investigation and research into new areas of thought. .. natural understanding of subtle energy forces and ... attracted to scientific and occult [studies], ... excellent aspect for those in the field of astrology ... [as for] confers scientific understanding of occult principles."
[and I really like the following] "...not bound by tradition; they arrive at their own conclusions independent of popularly held views... far ahead of the times in... comprehension of life."


Mercury trine Neptune
"... intuitive mind with the capacity to read thoughts of others.... confers prophetic ability if other factors... sustain it. ...[as] Neptune rules the [mental imagery abilities], ...psychic premonitions which accompany visions are characterized by this aspect."


As to the last line above, about premonitions and visions, they added the remark that having Mercury involved with it bestows the ability to understand what those mean better than others with Neptune aspects as like the same but without Mercury being involved.

I'll try to find a little time this evening to add some more to this overall evaluation.
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
I have to retract just a bit as to the Merc./Uranus trine and that I said "no" the authors didn't. That would be to providing imagery, dreams, and such but as a response to an image, dream, vision... yeah, it is entirely logical.

Edgar Cayce gave the Uranian influences to that of the psychic and that of Neptune to the mystic. That should provide some help.

As to being reborn continuously with the same Asc. every time?
I seriously doubt that.

That natal chart I produced that I am so certain is the actual chart for the Nazarene, it has an Aries Sun with a Libra Asc.
I hate to admit this but I had that chart in my possession for at least a couple of years until I realized one day that given adjustment for sidereal precession I too have an Aries Sun and a Libra Asc. The Zodiac is off about 30° to 31° at present. I also have a Pisces Venus as like He did. Gemini Mars too, but after sidereal rectification i have a Taurus Mars.

Why the similarity? I'm not sure.

But to have the same Sign on ones ascendant lifetime after lifetime just doesn't seem very inducive to the growth of ones' soul... but it could be ...
The Sabian Symbols are locked into the Tropical Zodiac though and I have come to believe that the 360 Divine precepts they are is more significant as to the Asc. than the Sign. I have to conclude that the attributes now given for each different Sign were likely formulated over the last 1000 years and at that time the Sidereal and Tropical Zodiacs were offset from one another by apprx. 15°, Thus a lot of what is being said about Scorpios is actually about Librans... just a theory, of course but one worth a few nights of ponder.
Have a nice Sunday.
ptv
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
To clarify what I was trying to conclude with above. It's entirely plausible, for an example, that one could keep reincarnating with an Asc. in the same sign and degree every time, but as the two Zodiacs shift a degree apprx. every 71 - 72 years, you would have the awareness of a different precept every one of those incarnations, and as it is the 360 precepts that are the process of spiritual transformation, then that's what is the important matter for every incarnation to experience, that transformation provided by them.

Your author of the Chiron book may well be right?
Very interesting...and thanks for sharing!
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
Well, now I suspected I might also find this in your natal chart but put it aside for the amount of research it required and that the same deal has to do with this also applying to my own natal chart, but a certain degree of uncertainty remains as of yet [Oh me of a bit less faith than one would think I would have by now.... or something as like that. But I've also yet to fully figure out what it means, and a few other questions I have] and I was more likely to have bet it wasn't going to show up in association with your chart...but ... it did.

This is about that "Star" and while what Rudhyar wrote in his book about it seems to imply that it would be tied in with the Asc. [As He also seemed to imply that the Asc. would be the 1st degree of Aries... and whether people want to believe He was predicting that the natal chart for Yeshu'a/Jesus were ever to be produced that it would have as it's Asc. the 1st degree of Aries AND that this "Star" was also to be assumed to have the Asc. as one of its points, is kind of a moot point. As the 25th degree of Leo, my M.C.'s location along with that of my Part of Fortune, just so happens to be one of the points of a Grand Quintile constructed in perfect symmetry with the 1st degree of Aries.

As he Sabian Symbols involved with any of the 72 perfectly symmetrical Grand Quintiles [a pentagram] that can be found in the Zodiac each of those is the perfect plot outline for a story...as Marc Edmond Jones discovered not long after He first obtained them, as he made a very lucrative second income from writing and selling plot scripts to Hollywood beginning in 1928 or 29.

It wasn't until just a few years ago that I read that Rudolf Steiner had said that the reincarnation of Parsival would happen once the completion of the 1200 year cycle of Venus Sun conjunctions had happened.

A Venus Sun conjunction [superior] to the 7th degree of Scorpio, one of the two quintiles of the five points that make up a pentagram, or Grand Quintile [ and there's two in bi-quintile aspect], to my natal M.C.,in the 25th of Leo did occur on October 30, 1998, a Venus Sun inferior conj. at the 25th degree of Leo then occurred on August 18, 2007, then another superior conjunction at the 19th deg. of Capricorn om the 9th of January in 2018, and another will occur again at the 19th of Capricorn, superior, on this January 9th, 2022, a superior at the 13th of Gemini on June 2, 2032 and the last point of that pentagram on March 30, 2033 in the 1st of Aries.

As your M.C. is in the very next degree of Leo, right next to mine, I checked it out tonight...and, sure enough. The first was in the 8th of Scorpio, inferior, Oct. 31, 2002, then on August 18, 2003, a superior conj., at the 26th of Leo your M.C., and on June 3, 2020 an inferior conj. in the 14th of Gemini and then the next shows up on March 21 2037 a superior conj. at the 2nd of Aries...but I can't see one in this table for the 20th of Capricorn and why such a big gap in time from June 2020 until then?

The answer, best that I can figure is that one of those two listed as being both in the 19th is wrong and that one of them is actually in the 20th degree of Cap. As the table I have gives the exact [to the minute of a degree] position for Jan. 9, 2018 as 18° Cap. 57' and the one for this week as 18° Cap 43', I have to suspect that the one in 2018 was miscalculated and that it likely did occur in the 20th degree instead.

It will take some time working with the computer ephemeris to ascertain the solution to this, and I'm rather exhausted from what has been a busy and hectic December and Holiday season. I might not even get to that this week, but seeing as this next one will be this coming Sunday and is one of the two in question [as it is possible that this next conj. was listed wrongly] and that it also involves my chart, I'll surely have some answer before then, but feel free to find out for yourself as I'm not guaranteeing anything, and considering the large gap in time I mentioned it may well be the one that concerns yourself.

Inferior conjunctions are those that occur when Venus is retrograde and Venus is between us and the Sun, the superior conjunctions are just the opposite.

Here's a link o the table of all the Venus Sun conjunctions from 1900 to 2050. https://alabe.com/VeCycle-1.pdf

As to what Rudolf Steiner wrote about Parsival, I found the tables for these conjunctions 1200 years ago and , yep, the same conjunctions were occurring almost exactly 1200 years to the day before I was born. The exact span of time is 1235 or it may be 1225 years, around there... I forget. But it's what the Mayans used to keep their calendars accurate and is a more accurate system than the Europeans were using.
I lost the link to the older tables.. if anyone wants to see them you'll just have to hunt them down yourself.
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
That's all I've got for now u.p. I hope this will help you figure out the questions you have. You seem very intelligent and I think you'll do fine... just keep your nose clean and pointed in the right direction... ifyaknowaddImean?

Watch the North Node and the Sabian Symbol for it as time goes by, if the symbolism seems to definitely apply to yourself at any time...then you'll know that "you've been called to serve"... not that there'll be a UPS truck arriving at your door with a prize of some sort... a turquoise blazer, or a monogrammed sweater with a crest on it, but then again... you never know, ya know?
 

uranianplutonian

Well-known member
I'll definitely take a look into that Moon-Venus aspect - gotta love those quincunx aspects. I'll look into the Yod too.

Your dream about P.V. sounds like a clairvoyant one for sure. I love when people are open to admitting the validity of information gathered in a dream about them. It's really helpful in terms of getting to know our clairvoyance.

What is the title of your book?

It sounds like she may be swept by the COVID tide, or if she's like me, completely lost track of time.

The technique that your dad used to figure out the winning horse - putting the form under your pillow - sounds familiar to me. I'll have to try it out when I'm in need of an answer. I love that it worked out for him! :biggrin:
I totally agree with your mom on, 'using it for any sort of an advantage over others is karmically wrong.' ~~ if only more people followed this mindset (especially those who are currently in power)!

I've been looking more into the Sabian Symbols and wow! It's interesting to read people's progressed Ascendants. Here's the Sabian Symbol of the Ascendant of a woman I know who lives in Australia:
PHASE 237 (SCORPIO 27°): A MILITARY BAND MARCHES NOISILY ON THROUGH THE CITY STREETS.
...

I need to find a copy of An Astrological Mandala that doesn't cost $50435038.

The Sabian Symbol for the 30th degree of Aquarius sure is a deep and insightful one.

What does my M.C. in the exact same degree of the Sign of Leo as is the Part of Love and Appreciation derived from a natal chart that is the subject of the book you wrote mean à toi?

Both the descriptions for Mercury Trine Uranus and Mercury Trine Neptune are on point.
I'm still learning how to navigate and cope with my Mercury Trine Neptune, especially, 'intuitive mind with the capacity to read thoughts of others...'
I'm sure it feels like an intrusion to those whose thoughts are being read, but it tends to feel verrryyyy invasive when I'm going about my day and someone's dark thoughts pop into my head. Though, I've come to learn that it's a matter of letting them flow out of me and letting them go altogether.

Who knows about the whole ~reincarnating with the same Ascendant idea. I take everything with a grain of salt, unless it feels like it really fits!

I'm going to write all of the titles you've mentioned here on a piece of paper. Thank you for all of this lovely information and insight. :joyful:
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
I'll definitely take a look into that Moon-Venus aspect - gotta love those quincunx aspects. I'll look into the Yod too.

A> Your dream about P.V. sounds like a clairvoyant one for sure. I love when people are open to admitting the validity of information gathered in a dream about them. It's really helpful in terms of getting to know our clairvoyance.

B> What is the title of your book?

C> It sounds like she may be swept by the COVID tide, or if she's like me, completely lost track of time.

A. Oh there is absolutely no doubt it was, I'm 100% convinced of that. I've had enough number of such dreams to recognize one even while in the dream state, as to it being such a "vivid" [what others call as "lucid"] I'm in the dream, knowing that I'm dreaming but play along with it all the same. I don't try to manipulate it, as some will have you believe that you should attempt something as the like [Carlos Castenada, in his books about the path of shamanistic sorcery, relates what his "teacher" told him to do in such dreams.] I just let them unfold. The exception being when one got so "hairy" that I had to wrench myself awake. That was when I was about 7 or 8 years old. If P.V. were here she would tell you of the dream many years ago...before I had my dream in which she will swear that she met me, and asked me what the bundle, or portfolio, maybe it was notebooks [I can't recall exactly how she described it] and came up to this fellow in her dream and asked what it was that he was carrying, and she said that the fellow replied "Astrology".
She has a lot of aspects indicating telepathy in her natal chart.

B. " I apologize, I kind of figured that you might have read one of the many threads I've posted over the years... but then again there must be a gazillion threads in this forum by now. Allow me to introduce my self. My name is David Mastry, and the title of my book is, "A Template For The Time. The Astrological Birth Chart of Jesus" Hidden Mysteries, TGS Publishing, Frankston, Texas. It was published in 2008, on March 3rd to be exact [there's that 33 again...] it's currently out of print but I sent the revised manuscript to the publisher about a month ago so hopefully soon it will once again be available and so much better than what it was...it so sorely need grammatical editing, and with more info, additional discoveries about the chart that was produced that came after it had been put to print.
P.V. made a video in which I do the narrative about it. It hasn't got many views because youtube sure won't put it in their feed of suggestions, a lot of astronomers wish I had never wrote the book, about every professional astrologer wishes the same, and the Vatican most likely prays 24/7 that I die.
Here's that link...it's only about 30 minutes long and pretty much explains it all, as like a synopsis, or outline. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYsX4qsr8zY&list=PLu0W-__kQdNgDFI3VC01xhEq37WHlZwyI


C. She left before the covid thing was even happening. We stay i touch. She needed a break. When one gets involved with a "project" [I would rather use the term "mission" as that is what it truly is...but I don't want to risk sounding egotistical and full of myself, ifyaknowaddimean?] of this kind, and also make yourself known publicly as to doing so and who you are, you can almost be guaranteed that you will become a target and the means by which one might possibly be attacked with can be of such wways and means that ...ummm... how can I put this without you slamming the door in my face, so to speak?
I hope that it will suffice for me to say, it can get pretty f****d up. She was subjected to psychic assault is how some will describe it. i've been attacked in the same way, some of the weapons they use, that is to say the means by which they go about it can be pretty intense to endure. I've been subjected to one of the more powerful and a few lesser as such and lit's possible that I may yet again.
This ain't no party, it's not some merry lane which one can go skipping down to the destination. There's a war around us that not many are aware of. It's been waging for eons. As I tell some folks when it is called for. "You can either serve God or you can serve the Devi, or chose not to serve either...deny their existence even, it's the same thing. But the thing about that choice is, those that do so chose might just get 'served up'." ...as in becoming 'collateral damage" , because you are of no use to either side, it doesn't matter as to one or the other if you do. God knows you won't be lost, you aren't immortal to begin with, and everybody has to die someday, anyways, but you won't be condemned, suffer any kind of banishment, and you will be reincarnate again. But when you join the cause, your life will never be the same again either. Not much of a choice, huh?

The technique that your dad used to figure out the winning horse - putting the form under your pillow - sounds familiar to me. I'll have to try it out when I'm in need of an answer. I love that it worked out for him! :biggrin:
I totally agree with your mom on, 'using it for any sort of an advantage over others is karmically wrong.' ~~ if only more people followed this mindset (especially those who are currently in power)!

I'm not quite sure whether you understood what I wrote? I was the one that figured it out. My dad did beieve in prophetic dreams, and often thought that a dream he had might have been a "sign" as to play a certain horse, sometimes. He also knew oof using such things as devices, and how that will affct a person subconciously. That I did place that paper under my pillow certainly may have assured that I did, but there's no way of ever knowing as to whether it did, or didn't. ..and one should be careful of what they do place under a pillow, on an altar [especially that] and also as to where hey got it FROM WHOM, if it was an offering and not your own idea to begin with. Objects carry energy, and they can be deliberately infused with the kind of energy you'd rather not have under your pillow. Be cautious and don't be seduced as some can be OH SO CHARMING, ifyaknowaddimean?


I need to find a copy of An Astrological Mandala that doesn't cost $50435038.

It is a bit odd why the book just suddenly was no longer in print , soon after my "discovery" was made known to the public as it had never been as such before, and that was a span of about 35 years. I have worn out three copies of the book myself and I purchased 3 of them, one for myself and two for gifts, as late as around 2006 or 2007. they were selling for about $14.00 at the time. Now I see well worn copies o ebay that people are asking outrageous amounts of $$ for. I did find that the web outfit known as Scribed, which offers e-books and downloads, or as a library type service, had a trail membership for one month for one dollar last January and when I found that they had An Astrological Mandala offered, I took the offer, downloaded the book in pdf form, and then sent a copy of that file to P.V. as she didn't even have a copy of the book herself. I didn't renew the membership, all I paid was that one dollar...but having the actual book in hand is so much better imho... I don't like using a computer for such things. I'm ever looking to this page and then back to another, which is so difficult to do with a computer in comparison. In addition that weblink I provided to mindfire.com and Rudhyar's book is the same book, just not in pdf and missing that one chapter I mentioned and you don't have to pay anything. But they have been known to suddenly disappear and then reappear at some later time, and ou don't know if hey might do this, or that, or one as to the other. but it is there to read right now...and you might even think about going to the trouble of copying it to a word pad or such...time consuming but you would have it to keep [make sure you keep a copy on a flash drive too, if you do something like that. Things, files, photos and such, have mysteriously disappeared from my computer in the past.

The Sabian Symbol for the 30th degree of Aquarius sure is a deep and insightful one.
Yes it certainly is. It's a description of the "White Lodge", aka "The Great White Brotherhood". If you get into this 'stuff", you'll eventually recognize it as to how Rudhyar described it as being just that...at least it can specifically indicate that as such for a few souls here on earth. It's a whole 'nother level, a kind of "velvet rope" situation, ifyaknowaddimean?

[
What does my M.C. in the exact same degree of the Sign of Leo as is the Part of Love and Appreciation derived from a natal chart that is the subject of the book you wrote mean à toi?

You'll know if you do follow up on getting to know what my book is about, and whom it is about, and if you do then you'll know that it is the same degree f the Zodiac that His Astrological Part of Love was found to be in.

Thank you for all of this lovely information and insight. :joyful:


It has been my joy to be of assistance to you and in service to God.

p.s. btw, here's a link to that which is what my book is all about. the thread is titled "Birthchart of Jesus?" and it dates back to late 2008.
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13271
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
BTW, as to those Venus Sun conjunctions I mentioned above and that there will be on this coming Sunday, January 9, 2022.
I did the arduous task of ascertaining the exact moment of "dead center" conjunctions for the event on that same day and month in 2018, as well as this year, and they are both in the same degree, i.e. the 19th of Capricorn and I looked all through those tables and just couldn't find one that occurs in the 20th of Capricorn... which I don't quite understand. But, many, and it may be all , as for what all I know... do seem to think these pentagrams are completed in 8 years time and allow anything within a couple, or even more, degrees of orb to satisfy their criteria.... which I think is either due to their having never thoroughly gone over these tables and finding out that they are indeed completed by exact conjunctions to each 72 degree point but over a period as much as...well, at least as long a time span as I already mentioned it does so to my natal M.C.

If a little bit of "slop" is allowable, then I suppose that the conjunction in 2018, being just shy of the 20th degree of Capricorn would be the answer to your own predicament.

I did get something of much value to me by this effort however, as I did learn the means by which to determine just exactly when a true dead center, bullseye, conjunction is to be determined. As some astrologers would just look for when Venus finally caught up to the Sun as to the exact secondth of a degree, but when the Sun makes its egress from those exact same coordinates before Venus does, then Venus never did get to that perfect point of conjunction. The Sun might even make an egress ahead of Venus the next three exact same coordinates. It's when Venus makes its ingress after the Sun does, and then makes its egress ahead of the Sun, is when you know you've got the right coordinates...but still as Venus can be in that same coordinate for as long as thirty seconds, or more, how do you know exactly in which of all those seconds in time Venus actually attained that?
The answer is to look to the additional files in pdf that is an option, you can click to the left above the chart, and look to every second one by one [and that means changing the birth data one second at a time too, and recasting the chart, repeatedly] until you see that the conjunction aspect went from applying to separating. As to which of those two to then go by is your choice. One might think that one second in time won't make that much of a difference, if any difference at all, as to what the rest of the charts data is... at least nothing that would make a change that is so important as to one second either way. But, then why do I seek such precision? For it is always just one second in time that does bring change. It is one second that changes a House cusp from one Sign to the next and it is but one second in time that changes the Part of Fortune from one degree of the Zodiac to the next, etc. If that should ever arise, that the difference between the applying and the separating aspect cause a change of some critical importance... well... you're on your own is all I can say... because I don't have the answer to that...not yet anyways.


Here are the Venus Sun conjunctions. The one that happened on January 9th, 2018 and the one that will happen, this coming January 9th, as to that exact change from applying to separating and the one for this Sunday knocked me out of my chair... I used Philadelphia, as it is the birth place of this nation and thought that would be the best to post as then it would be more helpful to the greater number of members in general...if you wish to recast it for your own locations, or location s of birth, well then you have all the information here by which to proceed with, just adjust the time to the appropriate time zone... but the one for this Sunday cast for Philadelphia...has my chart axis as its own coordinates...what are the odds?


...that's a rhetorical question, thank you


For the superior conjunction in 2018

dave-mc-star-venus-conj-sun-superior-USA-Philadelphia-1-9-2018png.png



and for he inferior conjunction this coming Sunday [which will actually be this Saturday, the 8th in the Western Hemisphere... and for some of the British Isles as well.. and Ireland as well... didn't intend to insult you guys... I know how sensitive a subject that is...]

.
USA-Venus-conj-Sun-inferior-exact-tdc-1-9-2022.png
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
...and that Part of Fortune for this Sunday's event, being almost exact to the I.C. {and I should have said it's the same degrees involved as those involved in my own chart axis, as my Asc. is in Scorpio} as like how my Part of Fortune is exactly conjunct by Sign and degree, that is, with my M.C.,, that is in the 25th degree of Leo...you can see my own natal chart above in one of the earlier posts in this thread. But where this Sundays events PoF is, the 17th degree of Scorpio, well that just so happens to be the same Sign and degree as my Part of Destiny...go figure... :sideways:
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
Another bit of a note to add to the above, u.p., r.e. the time span of the completion of the five points not being 8 years as many astrologers seem to believe.
As your own seems that it won't even be entirely complete though the event in January of 2018 will have been so close as to cover that criteria by a one degree orb except for that of any chart that has a point in need more than 19° Cap 57' 28", that is to say the last two and a half minutes of the 20th degree of Capricorn. Your chart's point is at 19° Cap 48' 32".

As to my chart pentagram it will take exactly 34 years and 5 months to complete,as it began on October 30, 1998 and will complete on March 30 2033 [:andy: 3/30/33 ? There's that "33" again...!] ...and u.p. Yours will complete 10 days shy of that of my own as to it being exactly of the same time span.
So, just from these two examples i might be so bold as to say that these pentagrams are completed, on the average about every 34 years and 5 months, give or take a month... that is, if I were so bold?
Let someone else spend the time figuring out how long each of the 72 possible pentagrams will take to be completed this present 1200 year [or 1225 or 35?] cycle and let them be so bold to say what it is... but for dang sure it doesn't happen in any 8 year period of time.
....and even astrodienst is guilty of spreading around that nonsense.

What these pentagram cycles of 1225 or 1235 years are significant of, I haven't but the slightest of ideas...other than what Rudolf Steiner had to say about one in particular having to do with the reincarnation of the knight of the Round Table known as Parsival, and being reborn and alive by the time of the transition from the 20th to the 21st century. [and you historians then take note. By Rudolf's words then, Camelot isn't a myth but rather a historical fact, and as to when King Arthur was of reign... as Sir Parsival and Sir Galahad were of a second generation ...for Sir Galahad was the son of Sir Lancelot... there are your clues. Do the math yourselves.] As there are a number of people that believe me to be the reincarnation of the hapless knight [and hence why my moniker of piercethevale...as that is what Parsival actually means.] and if by chance there's any veracity to what they believe, given that I was born in 1953 and subtracting 1225 or 1235 years...if it is as from one birth to the next and not from death of the preceding to the birth of the next... that would mean that Parsival was born in 728, or 718 A.D. and then subtract whatever number of years one generations' lifespan at that time amounted to and that is the answer as to when Arthur and his knights were doing their thing in full swing...whatever that thing was? Which is just about exactly the same time Islam got rolling ... hmmmm?
Of a curious note...at least to me it is, as it is very personal, of all the many comic strips in the Sunday edition of the Los Angeles Herald Examiner [which my parents subscribed to in the 1950's and 60's, and there were many comic strips in the Sunday edition, which made the newspaper very much looked forward to, by me, every Sunday, the one that was my mothers' favorite was the one by Hal Foster, known as Prince Valiant. If any of you have never seen one of those colour strips by Hal Foster give your self a treat and google it, they were so well drawn and the stories they told so full of virtue.
Clarisse Conner told me that the soul that was my mother in this lifetime is the same that was my mother in that previous time...and she also said this was the sixth time we have been incarnate as mother and son and that it won't be the last. She also mentioned that we are sent here as a team in those roles whenever things have got to a point of desperation here on Earth. Are things that desperate here at present? Some of you seem rather content

To those that are interested in the "Arthurian legends".
As long as I'm on the subject, with apologies here to uranianplutonian as I have kind of hi-jacked her thread, I do hope that she won't mind and will tolerate me a bit longer at this point?
... As to about King Arthur himself. My clairvoyant friend, and trusted spiritual confidante, the renowned Clarisse Conner, in a reading given for me some years ago, mentioned, in a "matter of fact" kind of way, that when King Arthur died his bones were ground to a powder and then sewn across the entire isle of England from one end to the other.
For what purpose or effect, I do not know and she didn't say.
It does have the sound of it being something of a most occult nature though, wouldn't some of you agree?

At least that solves the mystery of where Arthur had been buried... for those of you in England, He was buried everywhere around you...and as we all are a part of the soil of our environs, or should I say that the soil is a part of us, Arthur in turn is a part of you all... and in a way...living on within you.
PALRAPAR...!!!
ptv

P.S. By the oddest coincidence, as I took a break from writing these last few posts last night and went to the near by drug store, CVS, on the receipt is printed a coupon...as anyone that has every shopped at a CVS and is signed up for the discounts will attest to the fact that CVS loves to give you coupons... in fact it is one of their "extrabucks" rewards, which can be used just like cash for most anything they sell....but I've never been the recipient of one in other than a one, two, or five dollar amount before, and certainly had never seen one that including also cents to the dollar amount,... that is until last night. I was rather a bit surprised to see this. ...and there it is again
:andy:
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
One other thing, u.p., as I think that I recall you mentioning someones' belief that souls are reincarnated in either sex and I think it was implied that it is as freely as to one or the other.

Not as so according to what, the late, Edgar Cayce had to say on the matter. We are all a half of an entire soul that existed before the creation of the Adams and the Eves, [five pairs of which one pair for each of the original five races of mankind] As they were one soul divided into two [and, according to Cayce as was Yeshu'a/Jesus and Mariam/Mary were and was given in explanation as to how and why she, though a virgin, could give birth to a male child. i.e the mother must possess the other half of the childs' soul as well as having been a child by birth to a virgin herself... and, well, how often does anyone suppose that happens?] Cayce said that we all have by or own souls' nature, as there is a polarity to them, to be born rather to one sex than the other. Although, as he stated, it does happen at times but for the reason that there is a lesson the soul must learn that can only be done in such a manner.

It was also Cayce's explanation as to why the were a significant number of men that were known to have a preference for male companionship in that time, as for the reason many were being reincarnate that had been soldiers during the American Civil war and that the cruelties each had imposed on the others were so despicable that they had to learn to love one another to such a degree that could only be achieved by such a means of such.

The late Sylvia Brown went around saying that men and women were always being reborn in either sex as much as one to the other... but Sylvia was a total fraud, and one of the more successful at being an impostor than any I've ever known of. She was charging and getting more than $1500.00 for an hours reading a few years before her death and may have been even more at the time of her demise?

My friend Clarisse, whom is the "real deal", I do confidently attest charges around $400 an hour at present, for an hour long session...but she does offer introductory specials, or even follow-up sessions at times, for as little as $20 or $25 for fifteen minutes. She's worth every dollar no matter what the price she asks, if the question you have is of such an importance to you that you must have the answer... I cannot recommend anyone else other than her. Just keep in mind what the "Good Book" says about using such means to "see" the future, but that is my own personal belief and by which I adhere to and also keep in mind that she is a "clear channel" and as for being such what she does see are images and if what she says may seem a bit doubtful or odd, then I do advise to ask Her directly what it is that she is seeing, rather than her interpretation, as that is what any clairvoyant is actually saying to you. They are interpreting what it is that they see in their minds eye...as like how that dream of mine that provided the name of the highest paying, "winning", horse of any of the 9 races held the next day at that specific race track, was done by interpretation. As in my dream I was suddenly found to be on a dock at a harbor about to go onboard a motorboat of wide berth that had seats, bench type seats, for a number of sailors to sit alongside one another, which then disembarked to take them to one of the many naval type vessels in the harbor, in my dream. I had never before seen such a motorboat at my young age of 8 years, but have since then, as I found that it is exactly like those that are [or were] used when I was a boy scout in 1965 and got to go onboard the U.S.S. Hornet, which was mothballed and berthed at Terminal Island. There are designed specifically to carry as many sailors as possible to be seated in such a small motorboat, and I've also seem them in movies since I was 8 years old. As the small boat I was in, and sitting with sailors in uniform, each row filled, I saw that we were motoring towards the large naval type warships at anchor out in the bay, a large city on shore as far as the eye could see to either side, but there were also a number of "Chinese Junks" in the harbor and quite a few sampans that had Asian appearing pilots and passengers in them. That's what I told my dad I had seen in my dream. He found a horse running that day by the name of Los Orientals, and that was he horse He bet on.

It was the highest paying "winning" horse [meaning that it came in, in first place] at that particular race track that day [one of the race tracks that existed in So Calif. in 1961, I don't recall which one it was though]. It paid a little over $17.00 for a $2.00 bet.

I didn't dream of a horse, or a horse race, or anything that anyone other than I would think might be in association to such... as for what I had asked for was "the name" of the horse. ..and that's the imagery I got in answer.
So, as to clairvoyants giving predictions about the future, as I said, I certainly don't ask for such, but Clarisse seemingly can't help herself from doing so on occasion... and at the end of a requested reading some years ago, she added at the end of it in an, "Oh, as a matter of fact", kind of way, she remarked, "Oh, you'll be moving by this Fall". At the time the Autumn equinox was less than a month away and I spent a good deal of worry, time, and effort, not to mention a bit of $$$, trying to find a place to move to in the three weeks that followed. I couldn't find a place and the equinox came..and went..and so did a number of Autumn equinoxes for years afterward [that reading was in late August 2012].
When the tree outside my kitchen window began dying a few years ago [it is an oak that has got some sort of blight] and losing its leaves, I took a photo of it and sent it to Clarisse and asked if by chance it looked like the tree she might have envisaged? She said, "Yes, exactly like the one."
That tree is down to but one branch being still alive, or at least it was by Summer's end this past year.

As I have written, Clarisse is really good at that stuff...she is quite "gifted" but she is but a channel, and she doesn't want to know a thing about astrology as that might bias what she might see if asked a question that is astrologically related... and I also advise to never interrupt by saying what you think the imagery is about that, she is telling you, she sees... as I once did myself, when I did ask Her as to what my friend, Suryakant, might expect for his retirement and relocating to Oregon. When she told me she saw "gold discs" surrounding my friend [whom has just passed away this past month] and was said, by Clarisse,, [and I certainly have found evidence of in his natal chart] to have been Sir Galahad, in a previous lifetime. As He played guitar quite wonderfully, and had written a few songs of his own, but never had the opportunity to play for an audience, I took her imagery to indicate that He would and that he would also record and then be so successful to achieve the "Gold Record" status.
I only learned not too long ago that, as to the ascended beings known to some as the "Ascended Masters", to others as those members of "The Great White Lodge", aka "The Great White Brotherhood" that when then do visit us here in this realm on earth, and aren't incarnate [in the flesh] they appear as to be gold disks hovering in the air.
Sir Galahad, by legend, was the only knight of the three set on the task to find the Holy Grail that was successful in doing so, and as a reward the angels ascended Him up into Heaven without him having to suffer physical death in order to do so. "Ascended" being the keyword to understanding what that is all about. I read somewhere as to what happened to the Virgin Mother after Yeshu'a's crucifixion [as it certainly became a most interesting question to me as to what became of her, most especially given to believe Edgar Cayce's explanation that She was of the other half of the soul that had been Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth] that She was "ascended" unto Heaven, also.

That's all I have to contribute to this thread, but if anyone has any questions that they would have me give an answer, or opinion, to, I'll try to oblige.
If anyone else believes they have an explanation to u.p.s' question and which I find I feel a need to give comment to, I might do so, but otherwise,
that's it for me...I'm outta here.
It's been a slice... :smile: ptv
 
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uranianplutonian

Well-known member
I’m going to go by your a, b, c format for your first reply - this is way more efficient than ~quoting (at least pour moi).

A. I frequently have lucid dreams. I usually do take the wheel though. As soon as I know I’m dreaming, I run to the nearest ledge I can find, whether it be a cliff, bridge, etc., you name it, and jump to take flight.
If I’m having a not so fun dream of being chased and I’m cornered, I’ll take flight and fly away from the scene. It has really come in handy.
One time I felt curious and flew into the atmosphere. It turned into something creepy and I think it’s because I felt unsure about what I’d meet on the opposite side of the atmosphere. I haven’t tried it again, yet.
I also found a trick to waking myself up during sleep paralysis. There’s nothing more unsettling than sleep paralysis imo, especially when a banshee is standing in the corner of my room, waiting for me to acknowledge it so that it can pounce on me. The best method I’ve found to wake myself up is to hyperventilate in my dream. For some reason, it works out that I’m actually doing this outside my dream so my body wakes me up.

B. Enchanté. Non, I didn’t do much creeping. :biggrin:
I’ll buy a copy of your book when it’s in print again.

C. Like moths to a flame. I enjoy staying out of the public eye for this reason, yet somehow I have a feeling that it may be a part of my soul path.
Psychic attacks are frustrating, yet the frustration feeds them which is more frustrating. These are situations where I always call on higher beings to clear them out of my astral field. It truly is like an astral battle and/or war.



I assumed your dad went, ‘here son, take this paper.’
That’s still interesting though. Yes, it is wise to be careful about what one puts under their pillow.

I’m going to will this Sabian Symbols book into my physical existence at a reasonable price. You’re right, the physical copy is much better than the digital.
I look forward to learning more about the Sabian Symbols, and I’ll vibe that 30th degree of Aquarius to understand it more.

I’ll stay tuned for this Astrological Part of Love you speak of.

That Sun-Venus conjunction in 2018 must have activated something harmonious in my chart in 2018 because 2018 was a very good year pour moi. I’m definitely going to look more into this.

What’s the outcome of the pentagrams being complete? I imagine it’s something energetic and spiritual rather than physical.

When I saw King Arthur in your post, I felt surprised. My intuition lead me to read about the Arthurian Legends, and recently I sporadically bought a book on the death of King Arthur. I wonder why this keeps coming to me.
Now, I’m thinking about the flash I got when I looked in the mirror yesterday. I was washing my hands, and when I glanced up I saw that my hair was mahogany. I do have red in my hair, but it’s only really visible in the sun and not to the extent of mahogany.

My reincarnation beliefs aren’t firm, but I believe we are born into whatever sex balances out karma. I’ve recalled male past lives. What a trip…

You’re more trusting than me. I’m glad your experience with Clarisse has been helpful. Maybe one day I’ll see one. Though, I’ve found they come to me, and relay messages anyway. :biggrin: ‘Open up, you have so much to give to the world.’

Bonne journée!
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
I’m going to go by your a, b, c format for your first reply - this is way more efficient then ~quoting (at least pour moi).

A. I frequently have lucid dreams. I usually do take the wheel though. As soon as I know I’m dreaming, I run to the nearest ledge I can find, whether it be a cliff, bridge, etc., you name it, and jump to take flight.
If I’m having a not so fun dream of being chased and I’m cornered, I’ll take flight and fly away from the scene. It has really come in handy.
One time I felt curious and flew into the atmosphere. It turned into something creepy and I think it’s because I felt unsure about what I’d meet on the opposite side of the atmosphere. I haven’t tried it again, yet.
I also found a trick to waking myself up during sleep paralysis. There’s nothing more unsettling than sleep paralysis imo, especially when a banshee is standing in the corner of my room, waiting for me to acknowledge it so that it can pounce on me. The best method I’ve found to wake myself up is to hyperventilate in my dream. For some reason, it works out that I’m actually doing this outside my dream so my body wakes me up.

BANSHEES...?!?! YIKES...!! Dear Lady i hope that you're not being entirely serious. What I know about the lore of Banshees is that their wail foretells the death of a family member or someone close.
There ARE entities though that lurk about in the night and invade dreams, or that our encounter with them is like a dream, as it is on another plane.... astral i would suppose?
The incubi is one that women might be the most concerned about. During a period of time in the early 00's I met six women that all told me of the dream they had, and it was the same dream for all of them...and there was a seventh, that is my sister. None of these women knew one another, so pre-suggestion was out of the question. I had my sister talk to Clarisse and she explained to her what it was. They all found themselves to suddenly 'be in a dream" in which they were lying on their backs, paralyzed while a tornado looking object [entity] was hovering above them with the tip of its tail inserted int their open mouths and sucking the air right out of them. That was an incubi feeding off of their life force.
But, a Banshee, and a recurring one at that.
You might wish to try smudging your bedroom, the entire house or apt. in fact, with White Sage, moving the burning bundle in a sweeping motion from the furthest corner of each room towards the door, and then all collectively swept out the front door...while reciting names of God, {I personally use but two, both Sanskrit/Vedic in origin, which translate into English to be "Gods' name is Truth" [Sat Nam], and "Gods' name is Love" [Prema Nam].or invoke your sat-guru, or archetype, using there name Close all the windows before you do this, which I should have already mentioned, but forgot...and then when all is swept out the dwellings door put a line of Kosher Salt across the threshold to seal that entrance...and across the window sills of any that you'll open later on.
Kosher salt is more effective than Holy Water, as for one reason being that salt will provide some protection even if it isn't blessed, whereas water won't unless it is...and Kosher salt is more properly blessed than Holy water.....and be sure to smudge under your bed too, if it is raised above the floor by any chance?

B. Enchanté. Non, I didn’t do much creeping. :biggrin:
I’ll buy a copy of your book when it’s in print again.

If you wish. I'm not trying to sell it to anyone as for one reason, I don't make even one cent from any sales. That is as for the reason I willingly violated the terms of my contract with the publisher years ago, in fact just three months after it was published, by writing about the contents in this manner, i.e. free to the public. Although I'm not going to discourage anyone either as, after all, the publisher needs to see some cash flow in order to maintain an interest in keeping it in print. That is my objective, to see to it that it gets as many copies as it is possible to get printed and in circulation

C. Like moths to a flame. I enjoy staying out of the public eye for this reason, yet somehow I have a feeling that it may be a part of my soul path.
Psychic attacks are frustrating, yet the frustration feeds them which is more frustrating. These are situations where I always call on higher beings to clear them out of my astral field. It truly is like an astral battle and/or war.

YES, MA'AM. YOU SURE HAVE GOT THAT RIGHT.:ninja:

I assumed your dad went, ‘here son, take this paper.’
That’s still interesting though. Yes, it is wise to be careful about what one puts under their pillow.

Well, He did do that. It would have been for the best had I not made any further remarks about that. The method used is what some call "pre-programming", which is done by reciting over and over to yourself, just as if it were a mantra...the exact same words as to instruct oneself as to where it embeds deep in the subconcious. The newspaper was offered as to be used as a mnemonic I wanted to write that earlier but couldn't remember that word "mnemonic" for some reason. [the reason most likely being that I'm getting old]

I’m going to will this Sabian Symbols book into my physical existence at a reasonable price. You’re right, the physical copy is much better than the digital.
I look forward to learning more about the Sabian Symbols, and I’ll vibe that 30th degree of Aquarius to understand it more.

It's a description of the "Great White Brotherhood", aka, "The White Lodge", aka, the collective "Ascended Masters" and maybe one and the same as to what the Buddhists call the "Bodhisattva" Two Astrological Parts were derived from that natal chart that my book is about, that are in the 30th degree of Aquarius. They are the Part of Bondage, and the Part of Service.
Maybe that will give you an idea of the obligation He has to all of mankind.
It's a creedo of, "No Soul Left Behind", is what it is.

I’ll stay tuned for this Astrological Part of Love you speak of.

I didn't mean for it to be something taken to be so mysterious, I'll just post that Sabian Symbol here and now to save you a bit of effort. [ibid.]

LEO 26°: AFTER THE HEAVY STORM, A RAINBOW.
KEYNOTE:
Linking above and below, the Covenant with one's divine nature, promise of immortality.

In the Bible the rainbow is the sign of the Covenant established by God with Noah (the cyclic 'Seed man') guaranteeing that no longer shall the destructive power of Spirit (the Shiva aspect of the Divine) be used to destroy life on earth. As we come to the third level of the scene of 'Release', we find the man who has been able to weather the cathartic storm face-to-face with his divine Archetype; because he has been victorious, a link has been established with his divine Soul-being. Both the human and the divine partners should remain thus linked. H. P. Blavatsky's last words are said to have been: 'Keep the Link unbroken' — the Link she forged With the Trans-Himalayan Brotherhood that had sent her into the darkness of nineteenth-century materialism for this purpose.

At the first stage of this thirtieth sequence, the symbol of the rainbow shows us the need to maintain a state of open communication between the Sky and the Earth within our total being — not for the sake of finding an ever-elusive 'pot of gold' at the end of the rainbow, for this end is never to be reached, but in order to face the totality of our individual selfhood as it is projected in the many-hued dome of our sky-flung consciousness. After every successfully met crisis, the
REVELATION OF WORTH comes to us, and with it comes the promise of success, if only we do our part.
"


As to the remainder of what you wrote... It's All Good

It does sound to be very possible that you were there among Arthurs's Court

You never know... ya know?

Bonne journée!

...and Happy Trails to You.
ptv

P.S. Quebec? Montreal?
 
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uranianplutonian

Well-known member
Thankfully whatever it was didn't scream or make noise, but it looked similar to a banshee. Usually, it would pounce on me and try to choke me.
I feel grateful I learned how to wake myself up. This all mostly happened in one place I used to live. I suspect it has to do with the energy of the place and land. I usually sleep with a light pillow over my face, which helps in situations where I'd fall into sleep paralysis. This way, I open my eyes and I only see my pillow, not the accidental astral abyss of my room (and a random banshee seething in the corner).
I feel like the most disturbing experience I had with sleep paralysis was when I had a friend sleep over in the same bed as me. Before we went to sleep, we were having a conversation about this entity that ~haunted her as a kid. I asked her to draw it for me... I admit, this was a sloppy move on my part because I feel like it invited something in.
I fell into sleep paralysis that night and a banshee looking creature tried to pull my off of the bed. My friend put her arm over me in her sleep and I wonder if this was some sort of bridge for the thing to enter my dream... Nope. Now, I am more cautious when people tell me of these stories.
The dream(s) that those women had sound more disturbing.
I do sage, however I feel a bit confused about how the whole ~releasing out of the front door works when one lives in a high-rise. I've wondered if the energy is released into the hallway and then gets stuck there - unless it knows how to use an elevator and/or stairwell. :biggrin:
I've also wondered if I should use my balcony door as my front door and release... I'll have to give it a try.

I feel curious, so when it's in print I'll definitely purchase a copy!

I'm glad I've found the word for why I remember random things taught in grade school - mnemonic.

I like mystery, so it's all good. Thank you for saving me a bit of effort though. :joyful:

I'm sure there's some sort of important message for me to find in the Arthurian Legends. It's possible I could have been there, who knows!

Bonsoir! 555

P.S. Close!
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
TO U.P.
Well, I do have to thank you for bringing back to mind the Sun Venus conjunction this past weekend. It did cause me to get to the bottom of that question about whether there were two conjunctions in the 19th degree of Capricorn or if the table of conjunction was in error, or a mis-print had been the reason why. I am a bit compelled to have to think if whether the 19th of Capricorn was being emphasized over the other four degrees of the Zodiac that comprise the pentagram that makes a symmetrical "Star" to my natal M.C.

Phoenix Venus came up with the idea that ones M.C. Pentagram should be read in the order of every other one, just as the pentagram is drawn by those that engage in such practices, while Dane Rudhyar in his book on the Sabian Symbols, [i.e. "An Astrological Mandala" In Part Three, Chapter Three, "The Cross and the Star"] as He does walk the reader through the five degrees that He chose to use as an example [the same five degrees that are that of my natal M.C. pentagram] beginning with Aries 01° and through the following four in the "Traditional" order of procession, i.e. counter clockwise.
... AND IT IS HERE AT THIS POINT I MUST STOP, AND NOT GO ON WITH WHAT i HAD INTENDED TO WRITE...

[Late note: Hours after I wrote the following I read it to myself and realized I may have made it all the more difficult to understand as to those potions of the following that relate particularly as to what Dane wrote himself. I'm trying to give the explanation as to how I finally was able to see that the other process of transformation, i.e that of spiritual evolution, begins not with Aries 01° but rather with Virgo 30°, but now I seem to think I didn't do a very good job of it. You all don't need to know why I struggled with my own understanding or how I finally arrived to the answers I sought, all you really need to know is how to use it and that it works. The process of where to begin to start with the pentagram then reasonably seems to begin with that which comes at, or immediately after that of, Virgo 30°, which in my case is the 25th degree of Leo. As to whether one then proceeds through the pentagram one after another, or by he method P.V. describes, seems to work either way in regards to my own M.C. pentagram, although Dane, in his example, is doing so one after another. But there is a paragraph or two, in His book, that I didn't include in the following that states that the manner of interpreting each symbol does need to be understood and in relevance to every natal chart in a different way so as to where it then does best seem to be fitting to so be interpreted as. In that paragraph, or two, Dane does admit that his interpretations for these symbols don't encompass every possible nuance that might possibly arise. So if the following does get to be more confusing than of assistance, just skip over as much as you might care to, and read what are the excerpts from his book [in the colored text], and then read that third chapter in Part Three of his book for yourself. I thought of deleting most of it, but then I'd end up trying to write it again. I will make another post down below with the excerpt, I would have liked to have included in this post, as to what He wrote about each symbol needing to be put in relevance to the uniqueness of every different natal chart. Thanks for your patience and understanding. ptv.]

FIRST OF ALL, I NOW OWE YOU THANKS TO THE NTH POWER AS I HAD TO STOP ANYWAYS, BEFORE I CONTINUED ON, AND RE-READ A PORTION OF THAT CHAPTER IN ORDER TO BE ASSURED OF WHAT I WAS ABOUT TO WRITE, AND AS TO A BIT THAT I ALREADY HAD WRITTEN ABOVE, r.e. "... IN THE TRADITIONAL ORDER OF PROCESSION...", AS I HAD BEGUN THINKING AGAIN ABOUT THIS MATTER, WHICH I HAD SHELVED SOME YEARS AGO AS AN ENIGMA YET TO BE FIGURED OUT, OR AT LEAST UNDERSTOOD BY MYSELF. OVER THE WEEKEND I CAME TO A CONCLUSION THAT P.V. WAS CORRECT AND QUITE PERCEPTIVE AS TO WHAT SHE WROTE IN HER THREAD ABOUT THIS "STAR", BUT FOR THE SPIRITUALLY EVOLUTIONARY DIRECTION PROCEEDING FROM THE ASC., WHICH TAKES ITS PATH IN THE OTHER DIRECTION, i.e. CLOCKWISE....WHICH IS WHY I DO DESIGNATE THE .M.C. AS BEING THE "HOW" OF ONES NATAL CHART AXIS, AS OPPOSED TO WHAT RUDHYAR HAD SINGULARLY HAD USED AS THE MEANS TO THIS PROCESS, THAT IS IN DESIGNATING THE I.C. AS SUCH [AS THE "HOW" MUST FOLLOW THAT OF "WHO" AS TO HOW TO GET TO THE POINT AT THE DESC. FOR THE PURPOSE OF TRANSFORMATION INTO THE "WHERE-TO", OR AS I SOMETIMES PREFER TO CALL IT AS THE "WHOM-TO", AND THAT THE "WHY" OF THE MATTER CAN ONLY BE AT THE END OF THOSE FOUR POINTS IN THE PROCESS.] AND THUS CAME TO ANOTHER CONCLUSION THAT WHEN FOLLOWING THESE SYMBOLIC FIVE STEPS ONE SHOULD SKIP A POINT TO THE NEXT, BUT FOR THE M.C. STAR IT SHOULD BE IN A CLOCKWISE MANNER AND AS TO THE I.C. [MATTERS OF THE MUNDANE] IT SHOULD BE IN THE "TRADITIONAL", i.e. COUNTER CLOCKWISE DIRECTION. YET, AS I DID CORRECTLY RECALL THAT RUDHYAR DID BEGIN WITH ARIES 01° IN THAT CHAPTER'S DEMONSTRATION, I WAS STILL PERPLEXED AS TO WHY HE NEVER STATED IN THAT DEMONSTRATION AS TO WHETHER HE WAS USING ARIES 01° AS THE POINT AT THE I.C. [IN ADDITION TO THE FACT THAT IN THE DESCRIPTIONS AND INTERPRETATIONS HE GIVES FOR ALL OF THE 360 SYMBOLS HE IS ALWAYS INFERRING THAT EACH SYMBOL IS THE PROGRESSION OF THE FORMER IN THAT "TRADITIONAL" DIRECTION, i.e. FROM ARIES 01° TO PISCES 30°. BACK SOME 15 YEARS AGO WHEN I FIRST BEGAN TO SUSPECT THAT RUDHYAR HAD BEEN IMPLYING THAT THERE DOES EXIST ANOTHER DIRECTIONAL PATH TO A "HIGHER TRANSFORMATION", AS FOR HIS REMARK GIVEN IN MORE THAN AT LEAST ONE PUBLISHED WORK, THAT, "THE PATH OF TRUE DISCIPLESHIP BEGINS IN VIRGO". WHAT I WAS LEFT TO CONCLUDE, AT THE TIME OF WRITING MY BOOK, IS THAT AS IT TURNED OUT THAT LIBRA 01° WAS THE ASC., AND NOT ARIES 01°, THAT THIS OTHER PATH THEN BEGAN AT LIBRA 01°, AS I DID WRITE IN THE BOOK, AND CULMINATED AT VIRGO 30°, AS FOR THE REASON THAT I HADN'T YET CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD WHAT DANE ACTUALLY WROTE BECAUSE I FOCUSED ON HIS KEYWORDS, THAT ARE, "CONQUEST OF ILLUSION" AND I HADN'T FRAMED IT IN CONTEXT TO THE REST OF HIS SUMMATION AND THAT, IN TURN, TO HIS REPEATED STATEMENT THAT "THE TRUE PATH OF DISCIPLESHIP BEGINS IN VIRGO".

FOR SOME TIME, AT FIRST, I THOUGHT THAT STEP BEGAN WITH VIRGO 22°, BECAUSE HE WROTE THAT THE SYMBOLISM, FOR WHICH, BEING ABOUT THE CERTIFICATION OF ONES' WORTHINESS, OR SO AS TO HOW I HAD INTERPRETED HIS WORDS TO MEAN. IT FINALLY DAWNED ON ME ONE DAY THAT LIBRA 01° HAS TO BE THE CULMINATING STEP, THE FINAL STEP IN THE TRANSFORMATIONAL PROCESS THOUGH THE SYMBOL FOR VIRGO 30°, WROTE DANE, [IBID.] "This is the culminating step, the decision that results from a myriad of small choices. Still a shadow of hesitation can remain. Attention may be distracted from the Now by a voice from the past, glamorizing some old memory. The outer doors of perception and thought must be closed, so the soul can complete its CONQUEST OF ILLUSION." AND BECAUSE IT MADE NO SENSE TO ME THAT THIS "PATH" WOULD CONSIST OF JUST 31 STEPS BEGINNING WITH VIRGO 01°, AS MUCH AS FOR IT THEN BEING SO SHORT OF A PATH, AS ALSO TO WHAT THE SYMBOLISM FOR THE FIRST DEGREE OF VIRGO DOES REPRESENT, AND THOUGH I DID FAVOR THAT SYMBOLISM OF THE 22ND DEGREE OF VIRGO, IT MADE EVEN LESS SENSE, IN AS MUCH AS, FOR THE REASON THAT THE PATH WOULD THEN BE SO VERY MUCH THE SHORTER, AS FOR THE REASON THAT I KNEW, BUT JUST WOULDN'T ADMIT IT TO MYSELF YET, THAT I WAS EXTRAPOLATING HIS INTERPRETATION TO MEAN SOMETHING MORE THAN HE DID ACTUALLY WRITE, BELIEVING THAT HE WAS BEING DELIBERATELY OCCLUDING. IT FINALLY OCCURRED TO ME THAT VIRGO 30° DOES SYMBOLICALLY REPRESENT THE CULMINATING STEP, BUT THE CULMINATING STEP OF THE MUNDANE AFTER WHICH ONE SEES, AND THEN TAKES, "THE TRUE PATH OF DISCIPLESHIP" WHICH IS IN THE OTHER DIRECTION. AS THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS TO SPIRITUAL PERFECTION AND THE ABSOLUTION OF ONES KARMIC DEBTS, THE PATH CAN NEVER BE A SHORT ONE {WITH EXCEPTION TO THAT WHICH MIGHT BE PROVIDED BY ONES "SATGURU" ...AND YESHU'A/JESUS MAY IN FACT HAVE OFFERED IT TO ALL THAT CHOOSE HIM TO BE THEIR "SATGURU", OR ARCHETYPE, DEPENDING ON THE NOMENCLATURE ONE PREFERS TO USE, WHETHER IT BE ALL OF ONES KARMIC DEBTS OR A PORTION OF WHICH...AS THAT IS A QUESTION I WOULDN'T DARE TO ATTEMPT TO GIVE AN ANSWER TO, ALTHOUGH I AM VERY SET IN MY OPINION ON THE MATTER GIVEN A NEAR LIFETIME OF STUDY, AND EXPERIENCES, OF BEING BOTH A CHRISTIAN OF THE GNOSTIC TYPE AND A PRACTITIONER OF YOGA BY A RARE PATH OF THE SANATAN DHARM.}

SO THEN, GETTING BACK TO WHAT I WROTE ABOVE ABOUT HAVING TO RE-READ SOME OF THE TEXT IN PART THREE, CHAPTER THREE, TO SEE IF ANY REFERENCE WAS MADE TO WHETHER DANE DID DESIGNATE ARIES 01° AS THE DEGREE TO BEGIN WITH AS... FOR THE PURPOSE OF HIS DEMONSTRATION... BEING THE M.C., OR IF THAT HE WAS BEGINNING WITH THAT SIGN AND DEGREE AS FOR IT BEING CONSIDERED THE FIRST OF THE 360 SYMBOLS IN A TRANSFORMATIONAL PROCESS OF AS MANY STEPS... OR IF I SHOULD HAPPEN TO STILL NOT YET BE ABLE TO FIND ANY SUCH INDICATIONS... MIGHT THERE AT LEAST BE SOME CLUE AS TO WHICH OF THE FIVE POINTS OF ANY PERFECTLY SYMMETRICAL PENTAGON THAT CAN BE FOUND IN THE ZODIAC [AND OF WHICH THERE ARE BUT 72, BUT EACH HAVING FIVE POINTS FROM WHICH TO POSSIBLY PROCEED FROM?] IT HAD SEEMED TO ME THAT AS THE M.C. IS THE ONLY ONE OF THE FIVE TO FALL ON A CHART AXIS POINT, BUT FOR THE RARE EXCEPTIONS OF THOSE NATAL CHARTS THAT HAVE THE ASC.'S, OR DESC.'S, BEING AT A 72° ASPECT TO THE M.C. , ALONG WITH THE PERPLEXING POSSIBILITY THAT AS DANE HAD BEEN USING ARIES 01° FOR THE ASC. IN HIS EXPLANATION THAT THERE IS ALSO THEN ANOTHER PAIR OF PENTAGRAMS THAT POINT NEITHER UP NOR DOWN BUT TO EITHER SIDE... THIS UNANSWERED QUESTION I HAD WAS MADDENING, AND AFTER ALL THESE YEARS, IT HAD BECOME EXCEEDINGLY SO.
BUT........AND THIS IS A HUGE, BUT, FOLKS... JUST NOW HAVING RE-READ THE PASSAGES AGAIN, I FINALLY GOT IT... {as I often tell people, that if it's about math and physical sciences, physics, mechanics, spatial relationships, I'm in the top percent of mental capabilities, but when it comes to reading comprehension and the use of language as to speaking and writing... I barely rate as average, and that being a big part of the reason why I never finished college as there was just too much reading and writing for me to handle...and despite my being a fine arts major at that!] DANE DOES GIVE US INDICATION AS TO THE ANSWERS TO ALL THOSE QUESTIONS.
AS HE WROTE AT ONE POINT IN THAT CHAPTER... [IBID.]

"The five-pointed star is the symbol of Mind as a mode of universal activity. The star can either point upward or downward. It is the symbol of Man; and a man can evolve his consciousness in the direction of Light (i.e. Spirit), or follow the path of "devolution" and be drawn eventually to the realm of unconscious absorption in undifferentiated matter, the "humus" which will feed the growth of seeds in a future cycle."

DANE THEN GOES AND LISTS THE FIVE DEGREES HE USED FOR HIS DEMONSTRATIVE EXAMPLES, I.E ARIES 01°, GEMINI 13°, LEO 25°, SCORPIO 07°, AND CAPRICORN 19°... THEN FURTHER ON HE STATES [ibid.]

"We should note that the second symbol (Gemini 13°) and the fifth (Capricorn 19°) refer to what one might call social roles. The first of these means that once the individual mind has emerged from the collective mentality of its culture it has to prove itself by demonstrating its capacity to move and inspire others. It does this, however, in terms of the ego (as a "virtuoso," often dramatizing himself on a public stage). Moreover, the cultural material he uses (i.e. the compositions he performs) is not his own. The performance often implies or suggests an act of ego-glorification."

THUS DANE HAS POSSIBLY IDENTIFIED TWO OF THOSE DEGREES AS BEING MORE TO THE MUNDANE AFFAIRS OF LIFE.

BUT, ALSO TO GET TO MY POINT AS TO THERE BEING TWO WAYS TO PROCEED THROUGH THESE SYMBOLS AS TO A TYPE OF TRANSFORMATION HE EARLIER STATES...[ibid]

"The equinoctial phases of the year cycle represent the principle of consciousness because the two interacting energies (Yang-Yin, or Day-force and Night-force) being of equal strength, the power principle is neutralized. At the solstices of summer and winter one force, being almost totally dominant, normally makes a great show of power. The two primary types of power are (1) the power to be effectively what one is as a particular form of existence, and (2) the power to use what one is within a "greater whole" in which one is called upon to function. Thus, Cancer 1° (sailors raising a new flag) stabilizes with fully available Yang power and determination the form of life and consciousness that emerged at Aries 1°. On the other hand, Capricorn 1° pictures an "Indian chief" able to use social processes to make concrete and acceptable to his community the vision he had of his essential being. At this Capricorn stage we see public and official power in action."

...AND IF YOU HAVE READ THAT CAREFULLY, THEN YOU HAVE REALIZED THAT HE HAS STATED IN THAT INSTANCE THEN THE SYMBOLISM FOR CANCER 01° IS TO SPIRITUAL EVOLUTION AND THAT OF CAPRICORN 01° IS THAT OF THE MUNDANE.

...AND FURTHER AS TO MY OWN PREDICAMENT, PERTAINING TO CAPRICORN 19°...

"The fifth and last principle is that of utterly dedicated and efficient service — the service of one's spiritual family, group or guru. The ego-dramatics of the "virtuoso performance" are left behind. The ego has been cleansed by harsh trials and tempered by the fire and heat of the desert sun; it is now filled with the assimilated contents of the psychic and biospheric depths. It has begun to vibrate to the 5 (i.e. a five-year-old child). The individual may experience the Star of Victory within his heart."

NOW... AND... OH YES... SO PARTICULARLY, RIGHT FREAKIN', NOW AT THIS TIME, AS BEING SO APPROPRIATE WITH VENUS HAVING JUST CONJUNCTED THE SUN IN THAT VERY DEGREE... IT HAS ALL BEEN MADE SO VERY CLEAR TO ME WHAT DANE IS TRYING TO GET ACROSS TO US ALL. [AND IF I HAD AN ALTAR TO DANE I WOULD BE ON MY KNEES THIS VERY MOMENT OFFERING SUPPLICATION TO HIM IN DEEP REVERENCE TO THE WISDOM HE HAD AND DID SHARE...]

AS HE ALSO CONTINUED ON IN THIS CHAPTER OF HIS BOOK, AND ALSO BRINGS US BACK TO WHAT THE QUINTILE ASPECT DOES PRODUCE AS ITS EFFECT, i.e., THAT ASPECT OF "GENIUS", AND THEN ALSO ANSWERS AS TO WHERE AND FOR WHAT REASON FOR CONSIDERATION AS TO WHICH OF THE FIVE TO BEGIN WITH AS TO THE UNDERSTANDING OF HOW TO INTERPRET ONES OWN PENTAGRAM FOUND IN THEIR NATAL CHART...[ibid.]

"It is popular today to speak of "creativity" and of having a creative mind. What this means is the capacity to give form to raw and undifferentiated materials or to transform what has already been given a particular shape or structure. It is this capacity that operates in terms of five different types of activity. Above, by relating the symbols of a five-pointed star pattern beginning with the first degree of Aries, I presented the basic prototype of all such processes — just as the relationship between the four cardinal points of the zodiac establishes a prototype theoretically applicable to all similar quaternary relationships between zodiacal degrees and their symbols. The Cross and the Star are geometric archetypes that can give a general meaning to all existential processes operating according to the Vibrations 4 and 5. Any degree of the zodiac can thus become the head of a Cross, or the upper point of a Star — and, I might add, of the Star's negative reversed form."

SO, AGAIN U.P., THANK YOU FOR BOTH INITIATING THIS THREAD AND POSING YOUR QUESTION, AND FOR YOUR TIME AND EFFORT IN ANSWERING THOSE QUESTIONS I HAD FOR YOU.

I WISH THAT I COULD HAD COPIED AND PASTED THE ENTIRE CHAPTER FROM WHICH I DID TAKE MANY EXCERPTS FROM, AND HAVE TO HOPE THAT THE MODS DO ALLOW ME LENIENCY AS TO HOW MUCH I DID, AS IT IS SUCH A DIFFICULT UNDERSTANDING TO CONVEY AND I BEING SUCH A POOR WORDSMITH AT THAT.!?!
I DO IMPLORE ALL THAT ARE INTERESTED IN UTILIZING SABIAN SYMBOLS IN NATAL ASTROLOGICAL INTERPRETATION AND UNDERSTANDING TO READ, AND RE-READ AS MANY TIMES AS MIGHT BE NECESSARY, THE ENTIRE 3RD CHAPTER OF PART THREE OF DANE'S BOOK, TO FULLY UNDERSTAND THIS PROCEDURE.
THANK YOU.
ptv
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
i HAD ORIGINALLY INTENDED TODAY TO ASK YOU, U.P., IF YOU HAVE CAST A PROGRESSED CHART FOR YOURSELF AT THE TIME OF THIS VENUS SUN CONJ. WE JUST EXPERIENCED? AS i DID SO FOR MYSELF, AND LIKELY WOULDN'T OF HAD, BUT FOR THE REASON THIS THREAD OF YOURS BROUGHT ALL OF THIS BACK TO THE FOREFRONT OF MY ATTENTION... OR AT LEAST NOT AT THIS TIME...AS THIS COMPLETE PROCESS WON'T BE DONE WITH, IN REGARDS TO MY OWN NATAL CHART UNTIL 2033.

WHAT I FOUND IN MY PROGRESSED NATAL CHART FOR THE EVENT ABOUT KNOCKED ME OUT OF MY CHAIR... YOU WILL RECALL MY FASCINATION WITH THE 30TH DEGREE OF AQUARIUS AND WHAT I TAKE THE SYMBOLISM, AS RE-IMAGED, BY DANE RUDHYAR TO BE REPRESENTATIVE OF?

THEN CHECK THIS OUT...AND KNOW THAT A PROGRESSED PART OF FORTUNE TAKES ABOUT 27.5 YEARS, give or take a month or two, TO REOCCUR. IT STAYS IN THE 30TH DEGREE OF AQUARIUS UNTIL THIS COMING FEBRUARY 28TH OR MARCH 1ST, SOMETIME THERE-IN.

IF YOU ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE ALLEGED PROPERTIES OF VESTA, THEN PLEASE NOTE THAT IT IS SAID TO , AS TO ITS POSITION IN A CHART, SHOWS WHERE IT'S WISEST TO SEARCH FOR ONES UNIQUENESS, NOT BY FULFILLING PERSONALIZED, OR SELFISH, DESIRES, BUT RATHER RENOUNCING THEM IN THE NAME OF A GREATER CAUSE, THUS ALLOWING ONE TO FIND THEIR TRUE SPIRITUAL IDENTITY.

Please note, however, that this prog. natal chart is for this January 30, 2022 when the egress into the 30th degree of Aquarius occurs for my progressed natal Part of Fortune.

Dave-prog-natal-Po-F-ingress-30th-Aqua-minus-16-hrs-1-30-2022.png
 
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