Virgo the great mother and divine feminine energy

waybread

Well-known member
2000 years ago and more the astrological signs overlapped with the constellations. Signs and constellations drifted apart in the western tropical (sun-based) zodiac due to precession of the equinoxes, but signs and constellations are still more or less overlapping in the Vedic (sidereal) zodiac. Today the western tropical and Hindu sidereal systems are about 23 degrees apart.

Of course, none of the constellations occupies exactly 30 degrees on the ecliptic. The Babylonians invented 30-degree signs around 500 BCE to make it easier to predict eclipses.

As you mentioned, there is a kind of constellational astrology for astrologers who work with fixed stars.

Medical astrology is one branch I can think of where signs and houses carry much the same meaning. The old medical astrology goes by parts of the body. So Pisces and the 12th house both represent the feet.

Semi-correct on houses, incorrect on constellations, correct on the rest of it. Zodiac signs actually have nothing to do with constellations. They're simply measurements of the ecliptic based on the solstice and equinox points.

Constellations have some association with the zodiac signs they're named for, mainly due to their proximity to those signs at the time our current astrological system was established, but they're separate from signs, and there's no real astrological significance to constellations. To certain individual stars in them, yes--fixed stars are a whole other layer of astrology, and many of the fixed stars used are in the constellations named for the zodiac--but most fixed stars have a quite different symbolism from the constellations they're in, and the only association between a fixed star and the zodiac sign it's in is that the zodiac sign is used to locate it in a chart.

Houses are also separate from signs. When interpreting an astrological chart, the combination of a sign's meaning and the meaning of the house it's in is relevant, but if you're just considering the zodiac signs alone, houses are irrelevant.
 
Without the constellations there would indeed be zodiac signs. Whole systems of astrology exist with no association at all between signs and constellations: Chinese astrology, for instance.

The Western system has developed such a close association between signs and constellations that most people think they're the same thing. They're not, however. If they were, the dates when the sun is in each sign would be different (thanks to precession, the namesake constellations no longer align as closely as they once did with their signs) and wildly unequal. Signs of the zodiac are an even 30 degrees apiece, but none of the constellations are exactly 30 degrees. Some are much smaller. Others are much bigger.

The constellation Virgo, incidentally, is arguably the biggest of the constellations associated with the zodiac, encompassing not only Virgo, but also Libra and part of Scorpio. The maiden (Virgo) holds the scales (Libra) which are also the claws of the scorpion (Scorpio). Some see Virgo, Libra, and Scorpio as one big constellation, in fact, rather than three separate ones.

This is how you view it from your own perspective, I strongly believe that the constellations have a lot to do with the zodiac signs
 
michael jackson and madonna were both born outside the window when the sun is kind of sort of both signs. It would have to be within a day of the sign change for that to be relevant.

However, madonna has mercury in virgo and michael jackson had mercury in leo. That gives them virgo and leo communication styles, respectively. On top of that, michael jackson also had venus and uranus in leo (as does madonna) while madonna has a virgo moon and virgo rising.

madonna is an aquarius rising not virgo rising 😣😣
 

Osamenor

Staff member
madonna is an aquarius rising not virgo rising ����

Not according to Astrotheme: https://www.astrotheme.com/astrolog....astrotheme.com/astrology/Madonna#hbiographie

Or Astro Data Bank: https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Madonna

Or Astroseek: https://www.astro-seek.com/birth-chart/madonna-horoscope

While there is some question as to whether her reported birth time of 7:05 am is accurate, all sources I see agree she was born in the morning. It's impossible to have Aquarius rising if you're born in the morning when the sun is in Leo.

Edit: But apparently some other, not as easy to find sources say her birth time is 7:05 pm instead of am. That would make her an Aquarius rising.

Either way, there's still her Virgo Moon and Mercury.
 
Last edited:

david starling

Well-known member
Not according to Astrotheme: https://www.astrotheme.com/astrolog....astrotheme.com/astrology/Madonna#hbiographie

Or Astro Data Bank: https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Madonna

Or Astroseek: https://www.astro-seek.com/birth-chart/madonna-horoscope

While there is some question as to whether her reported birth time of 7:05 am is accurate, all sources I see agree she was born in the morning. It's impossible to have Aquarius rising if you're born in the morning when the sun is in Leo.

Edit: But apparently some other, not as easy to find sources say her birth time is 7:05 pm instead of am. That would make her an Aquarius rising.

Either way, there's still her Virgo Moon and Mercury.


I've had charts I've read for people with a particular birthtime seem wrong for some reason, especially the M.C. It's happened three times. Then later, I was told they'd mistaken A.M. for P.M., or vice versa, and everything fell into place.

I haven't tried changing Madonna's chart 12 hours, but the average change would be 6 Signs, since the Ascendant goes full circle in 24 hours.

I found both charts.
I see the M.C. does move close to 6 Signs, from Gemini to Sagittarius.

Seems like she would have been told whether she was born in the morning or in the evening. But, it's a day-chart in both cases.

With Saturn in H10 with Aqua Ascendant, and considering her fabulously successful career, I'd go with that one.

Also, Mars in Taurus in H3, that driving, high-energy, forceful style of expression.
 
Last edited:

paul1

Well-known member
I strongly believe that the constellations have a lot to do with the zodiac signs

"Earth" should be taken into consideration as well as "sky" for a balanced reality. The zodiac symbols are created through the interaction between sky (ideals) and earth. For example the sign for Taurus represents sky joining with earth, with the accent on earth. All three earth sign symbols have a loop or circle in the lower part.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...bold).svg/1200px-Taurus_symbol_(bold).svg.png
 
Last edited:

david starling

Well-known member
"Earth" should be taken into consideration as well as "sky" for a balanced reality. The zodiac symbols are created through the interaction between sky (ideals) and earth. For example the sign for Taurus represents sky joining with earth, with the accent on earth. All three earth sign symbols have a loop or circle in the lower part.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...bold).svg/1200px-Taurus_symbol_(bold).svg.png

The Earth is comprised of three subsets: There's the solid landmass; the huge expanse of Earth's oceans and lakes; and, Earth's atmosphere, which surrounds the planet.

"Tropical" astrology, the type most Western astrologers are most familiar with, is all about the planet Earth's relationship with the Sun, involving the Earth-Sun orbital plane, Earth's tilt on its axis relative to the Sun, and Earth's rotation on its axis, which causes Sunrise and Sunset. There's also Earth's "wobble" as it rotates, which is behind the phenomenon known as the astrological "Ages".
 

Bjorkstrand

Well-known member
It's cancer.
Mother mary = 5 july 24 BC
mary_mother.png
 

uranianplutonian

Well-known member
I’m a natal Virgo Sun in the 10th house. I would agree about the maternal nature of Virgo, but I also have Venus in Cancer in my 9th house trine my Ascendant.
I notice my Virgo tendencies when it comes to efficiency. I really value efficiency and if something isn’t efficient, then I feel frustrated, or if someone is doing something inefficiently, I start to feel frustrated - something I’m working on. I experience the perfectionism of Virgo too, wanting the things that I work on to be the best quality.
In terms of discernment, I do find I notice very small details, and I feel that this is enhanced by my Scorpio Ascendant and Pluto in my 1st house square my natal Sun.
I’m very organized and cannot stand clutter. But, there’s usually that one closet that needs organizing that I avoid for months until I can’t tolerate it anymore.
I find that my maternal instinct really comes out when it comes to animals - perhaps this has to do with animals being associated with the 6th house/Virgo’s house.
Something interesting that I’ve noticed is that I don’t really get along well with other Virgo Suns (other than my grandparents), unless they’re on the cusp or close to the cusp of Leo or Libra. That said, I’m still waiting to find a Virgo Sun that I can vibe with.
 

paul1

Well-known member
There is a division of triplicity in the zodiac where there are three groups of four elements. The reason they are repeated is because there is a progressive development.

One way in which triplicity rulerships were used by earlier astrologers was to divide a person's life into three periods: early, middle, and late.
Taurus is the beginning of the earth, Virgo is the progress and increase, Capricorn is the end.

This means that Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, deal with the middle developmental phase of any process. Cancer deals with the first stage and is therefore the archetypal mother, concerned with the basics of food and shelter- survival. Virgo is cleaning up after a teenager, life is already established, and the individual must be projected into cosmic adulthood.
 
Last edited:

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
It's cancer.
Mother mary = 5 july 24 BCView attachment 91181
She shares the birthday of the USA that came in 1776 AD, about 1800 years later, and the founding fathers are Freemasons were into lots of esoteric, mystical and magical aspects of god almighty (deitists), and that, the date July 4th is highly significant to anyone who believed in the divine feminine in connection to the Virgin Mary. July 1-4 is aphelion or the earth's closest to the sun vs the opposite-perihelion on Jan 1-4 (the solar new year in western or the Christian calendar). And interestingly, the southern hemisphere has colder winters and the northern has hotter summers in part of the dual helion positions the earth goes through in its 365.14 day (solar) year. And look at that: the Virgin Mary's new Moon birthdate, but I don't recall July 4th was her patron saint day, I know Dec. 12th: Santa Maria de Guadalupe for Mexico, North America, and the western hemisphere in the Roman Catholic church.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
the old time Manilius Decans in Virgo were Cancer-Leo-Virgo; the duodenaries started with Virgo & ended with Leo; planetary monomoiria began with mercury and ended with saturn.
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
And the state of California has a Virgin birth date: they were admitted as a state on Sep 9, 1850. And right before the Sirius new year: the sun conjunct the brightest magnitude star Sirius of the Canis Major constellation is on Sep 9-10-11. And the esoteric 3' 33" ...the Moon placement conjunct ASC... in scorpio. And the state flag's red star on the upper left represents Mars which in CA's natal chart is upper-left too in the cusp 11-12th house in 15' Libra.
 
Top