Very urgent! Please help!Travel delay?

Lela

Well-known member
Hi all,

For some time I am planning to visit friend in London. Finally, I bought airplane ticket to fly to London on Monday (November 6th)…

Problem is – today my friend send me an e-mail and told me that on his return from a business trip he had some problems with UK immigration office (he is in UK on his post-doc). I do not know what is really wrong but he mentioned even possibility that he can be deported back to Bosnia.

I am already packing for that trip, tomorrow evening I will go to my birth-town and probably won’t be able to check mail…I do not know what to do now…I guess friend will call me soon with new information.. Another BIG problem is that I departure to London from another country and I have to travel there first (day earlier!), so that complicate situation additionally!

Please, could someone look horary chart and try to answer my question:

“Am I going to travel to London next week?” (Sarajevo, Bosnia, November 2nd, 2006. 12:00)

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?rs=3&btyp=w2gw&&cid=rlbfileyMDOIj-u1162465364

Thanks!
Lela

PS. I am really in panic; I even took annual leave for 10 days…
 

Draco

Well-known member
Sorry Lela, but I think that according to the chart it is very unlikely that you will make it to London next week, the negative testimony is overwhelming. :(

Capricorn rises, so you are signified by restrictive Saturn, which is detrimented in intercepted Leo and in the seventh. Saturn in exile, shows that you are not where you should be, the intercepted sign describes you as being trapped, and Saturn is not a lucky planet as it is, especially detrimented, and it's angular placement only makes your misfortune all the more prevalent.

Venus represents the journey to London, being ruler of the ninth cusp, and Venus is also detrimented. Both significators in detriment is doubly unfortunate. Venus is also combust by the Sun, as such Venus is rendered invisible, so the journey will not be seen. The Sun is the ruler of the intercepted sign in which you are detrimented, another bad sign, as that which presides over your misfortune also obscures the journey.

Mercury, natural significator of journey's is retrograde, so does not bode well at this time for questions concerning travel.

The Moon is void of course, implying no change in this matter, you will stay where you are.
 

Lela

Well-known member
Draco, thanks for quick reply!

I can not believe that I have such bad luck now! I always considered myself lucky, especially relating to travel. For this situation I hoped that everything will at the end go as planned (always optimist!)! I am so sorry to hear different (in a past I was usually very lucky regarding traveling).
Anyway, if I do not go to London (which seems to be most probable outcome) I will write again and explain what happened with my friend!

Your help could actually save me some money because, now, I will not make arrangement to the departure country in advance (which was my plan!). I will wait for all information from my friend.

Once again Draco, thank you very much!
Lela
 

Draco

Well-known member
You're welcome Lela. ;)

Consider though that with Saturn the seventh, interpretation can go awry, so hopefully I will be wrong and you can get to London.

It will be interesting to see what occurs.
 

Lela

Well-known member
Draco,

Could my natal chart with transits (for November 6th) be of any help to predict the outcome?

Thanks!
Lela
 
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Lela

Well-known member
Outcome-Travel delay?

Hi!

As I promised, I am writing to tell what happened with my trip.

I went to London and came back without any, but any kind of problems. Even, I was really lucky because I was 5 min. late on a bus for airport but luckily bus did not go on time so I catch it.
It was one of the best holidays in my life, had great time there.

So, Saturn in 7th house gave wrong picture?

Lela
 

blumen

Well-known member
This is unbelievable. I cannot understand why the indications given by this horary chart do not correspond to the actual outcome of the question!

Lela, how often do you travel? Travelling to other countries is something that happens frequently to you, or do you travel just once or twice a year?


Blumen
 

Lela

Well-known member
Hi Blumen!

Well, first I was very surprised when Draco explained that there are all factors indicating that I will not go to London. As I said earlier not even one of my trips went wrong. I am Sun/Asc. Sagittarius with 3 more planets in Sagittarius. Jupiter trines to all that accept one planet. I was always very lucky in my life.

I can not say I travel very frequently to foreigner countries, usually 3-5 times a year. This year, London was my 5th trip. I do not know if it is relevant, but I was in UK two months ago (business) and at that time I was considering staying longer in UK and visiting same friend. But at that time we both had some other plans and decided that it would be much better if we postpone my visit for November. Is this relevant?

I would also like to understand why horary chart gave wrong picture!

Thanks!

Lela
 

blumen

Well-known member
Some say that travels to places we are already familiar with are ruled by the third house. In this case you were going to Londond to see a friend.
You have been to London before, so the place was not entirely new to you.

Let's assume the trip to the UK is signified by the third house/Mars. You are signified by Capricorn rising, and your friend is signified by the seventh house, ruled by Cancer.

If we look at the chart this way things become a bit simpler.

Your significator is in your friend's house. Were you a guest at his place?
From the chart is seems that you were in your friend's house. This is already
a good indication.

Mars, the significator of your trip, is combust and in the combust way.
However Mars is in the sign of its exaltation. There may be some problems with the trip, but eventually you will make it.

The Sun rules the extention of the seventh house. Mars is applying a conjunction to the Sun. When you cast the chart the Moon was void of course. Soon it entered Aries. Aries is a sign of Mars, so the Moon (your friend) was received by Mars (the trip). Also, Aries is the sign of the Sun's exaltation, and the Sun may be considered a co-significator of your friend.
 

pwadm

Staff member
Starting with the firm conviction that the art is perfect, but we are not, the answer must lie within the chart.

First let me observe that Lela's real question wasn't if she was going to make to London, which was obvious since she alread had the ticket, but if once there she was about to have problems. This changes perspective.

In the horary chart the Moon separates from the greater benefic - Jupiter - ruler of the 2nd house (the ticket) and continues in its sign without any interference until changing signs. Translating this in common language - she bought the ticket and then the story unfolds as it should without any incidents. Remember that Pisces is one of the 4 exception signs mentioned by Lilly when considering the Moon VoC. In this case, the Moon is received/disposed by Jupiter, significator of the ticket, but also the greater benefic and natural ruler of travels abroad, who therefore makes sure that everything goes on just fine.

On the other hand, we could consider the almutems and not the rulers as main significators. ASC almutem is Mars, located stringly in its sign and the 9th house, but combust, showing the querent thinking alot on this trip abroad, in a powerful position, yet being afflicted (we now know that there was nothing to worry about, the situation was under control, yet the querent worried way to much).
The 9th house almutem is Saturn, in detriment and peregrine, but in the weakest Mars dignity, which is face. So the querent has some power over this travel.
 

Draco

Well-known member
Hi all,

So, Saturn in 7th house gave wrong picture?

Well it did in my case. Sorry to give you a negative interpretation Lela, but I only said what I saw, and it didn't look good, but Radu is right, that having a thoroug understanding of exactly what is being asked is essential. I presumed that you were asking about whther the trip would occur or not, when really you were asking as to whether there would be any problems for you or your friend when you got over here.

Traditionally Saturn in the seventh warns caution to the interpreter, so it seems funny that when you cast this chart, the chart already knew that this interpretation would go askew in advance.

This is unbelievable. I cannot understand why the indications given by this horary chart do not correspond to the actual outcome of the question!

I take it you must have read very similar indications in the chart to me then, but we misunderstood the question. It really is important to make sure that we thoroughly understand what is being asked. I usually just want to get to the fun and interesting bit which is interpreting the chart, but from now on I will more mindful to ask for clarification, even if I think I know what is being asked. :p

Radu,

Excellent interpretation, and now I realise where I went wrong. I've learned to be more investigative as to background detail upon questions, especially on a forum where communication is not as fluid as it would be face to face.

I have found that when I interpret a horary, I am more successful when physically with someone, than over the forum - so it must be the communication, there must be more discussion as to what the question is really about and glean the neccesary background details before diving straight into interpretation.

Your use of the almutens of degrees of signs as secondary significators is interesting. This is something I have thought about but not really tried out. I'll review some old charts using this technique and see if it throws up some extra insights.

About combustion: when a planet is combust, do you try and look to see what cusp Leo rules to try and get more insight as to the cause of the problem, or is this reading too much into things? One thing I have a problem with occasionally (being a Virgo), is racing round and round a chart, trying to interpret everything as meaning something in relation to answering the question, I sometimes have trouble keeping things to a bare minimum, and then I get confused, forgetting what is important and what is not, everything getting into a muddle.

Not properly clarifying the question that is being asked is indeed a problem to eliminate before interpreting a chart, but there is another I can think of, and that is going awry in interpretation by having an emotional investment in that which is being asked, so that you interpret what you believe and not what is there. I will start a thread about this with an example of how an interpretation went disastrously wrong because of my beliefs regarding the question, causing me to ignore what was so clearly there.
 

pwadm

Staff member
Hi Draco

About the combustion and the house the Sun rules - I might have looked at that, but I don't remember actually using, I mean, finding a logic to that in the context of the question. But in theory, it could be important.
But the Sun is already a natural significator and Frawley in his book explains that if the woman's significator (i.e. Venus) is combust by the Sun (the man), the woman is totally in love with the man - which looks to me more like she's under his romantic spell, he made her fall in love with him.

The other issue you raise, the emotional involvement in the chart, is indeed most dangerous - as everybody I'm trying to avoid that but don't know if I succeed always.
 

Lela

Well-known member
Draco, Blumen, Radu,

Thank you very much for your efforts. I learned a lot from your posts:).

I was worrying to much but just because my friend was in that mood. No matter of that entire situation with my friend’s status I was ready to risk and go to London (at the end I had return ticket!). That day when I left first post on the forum, my friend was worrying to much what will happen something goes wrong with immigration office and he even suggested postponing my visit for next week (he would change my ticket). His meeting with immigration office was at the same day of my arrival, just 2 hours earlier, so he could not let me know what happened.
And at the end we decide to risk, he made all back-ups with his friend (who would wait for me in case that something goes wrong). And as I described earlier, everything went just perfect and my friend even managed to arrive on airport at time and wait for me.

More information: That was my first visit to London! I was guest at my friends house!

Thanks again!

Lela
 
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