Venus debilitated in Virgo???

david starling

Well-known member
That's when it's at its most TYPICAL, not necessarily at its most popular.

What I'm getting at, is, if you want to know the true NATURE of a planet's effect, that's when it's in its exalted state, typical of that particular planet. Also, when it's domiciled, and unchallenged in its own sign.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I don't think this captures the point of the placement.
A fall is literally a humilation, the planet is not liked there. A planet in his exaltation is like a man in his kingdom, his throne. Like when someone is super popular and can do no wrong.
What I'm getting at, is, if you want to know the true NATURE of a planet's effect, that's when it's in its exalted state, typical of that particular planet. Also, when it's domiciled, and unchallenged in its own sign.
clearly
neither humiliation
nor
it's antithesis :)
super popularity
are usual/average states

.
 

david starling

Well-known member
It's about the language. Is the effect of the Sun in Libra really "depression and humiliation"? Or, just atypical of its usual nature?

I'm saying it's the latter.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Remember we are talking only about essential states here-that essential state CAN BE modified by other conditions affecting the planet, the so-called accidentals-these include modifications by connections (aspects etc) and by shadow placements (dodekatemoiria), which again can bring in new essential factors and additional new accidental factors to further modify the original essential state; to my understanding our final estimation of the planets condition is the TOTALITY of both original + dodekatemoirion essentials + accidentals, not undue emphasis on only one class-it’s simpler to use only one class (eg essentials of original placement) but I contend that to do so is often misleading.
Dodeks were forgotten by the Arabic transitional era and so did not play any role in later traditional astrology, which I believe was an unfortunate development-essential states of original placements became almost everything, and it seems that even modifying accidentals of original placements got the short end of the stick in delineation (my opinion) in later authors.
 
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sinhtheslumberingdragon

Well-known member
That's when it's at its most TYPICAL, not necessarily at its most popular.
I disagree. A planet in exaltation is extremely powerful and prominent, it's not like that all the time.
When it's in exaltation, it's like a king who is loved by his people, and can easily take action
When it's in fall, it's like a person who is extremely disliked - anything he does will be wrong
 

sinhtheslumberingdragon

Well-known member
Remember we are talking only about essential states here-that essential state CAN BE modified by other conditions affecting the planet, the so-called accidentals-these include modifications by connections (aspects etc) and by shadow placements (dodekatemoiria), which again can bring in new essential factors and additional new accidental factors to further modify the original essential state; to my understanding our final estimation of the planets condition is the TOTALITY of both original + dodekatemoirion essentials + accidentals, not undue emphasis on only one class-it’s simpler to use only one class (eg essentials of original placement) but I contend that to do so is often misleading.
Dodeks were forgotten by the Arabic transitional era and so did not play any role in later traditional astrology, which I believe was an unfortunate development-essential states of original placements became almost everything, and it seems that even modifying accidentals of original placements got the short end of the stick in delineation (my opinion) in later authors.
agree, but for certain topics fall/exaltation can be very indicative.

If someone is asking about prominence, and has both the sun and the moon in their depression, and the ac lord in teh depression, it's very unlikely that such a person will be promiment, vs someone who has Sun in 10th in Aries on the MC. (I find detriment doesn't stop prominence, but fall does)
 
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