USA charts - the ultimate debate

david starling

Well-known member
Strangely, Bill Maher suddenly became "Politically Correct" regarding that subject. The Heat was on to toe the official line, presided over by none other than....:wink:FBI Director R. Mueller. Now, the official line is that Russian agents operating on American soil had nothing significant to do with the outcome of the last Presidential election. "Plausible deniablity"--what a great expression!

[Edit] This has changed--everyone, even Fox News, now admits the Russians significantly affected the election in Trump's favor. Of course the Trump campaign didn't ASK them to, they did it on their own. :whistling:
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
Strangely, Bill Maher suddenly became "Politically Correct" regarding that subject. The Heat was on to toe the official line, presided over by none other than....:wink:FBI Director R. Mueller. Now, the official line is that Russian agents operating on American soil had nothing significant to do with the outcome of the last Presidential election. "Plausible deniablity"--what a great expression!

Plausible.jpg
 

leomoon

Well-known member
I'm writing this post under the influence of the Moon-Uranus square. Please bear with me if this sounds too revolutionary. As it has been already stated recently, Mars' ingress in Gemini will actually fire up intellectual debates.

There're at least two main charts for the US - that are generally considered as most effective from an astrological point of view - both on Jyly 4, 1776, Philadelphia, PA, timezone LMT:
- the Sagittarius rising chart - 5:10 pm - the Sibley chart
- the Gemini rising chart - 2:13 am

I just read this text by Olivia Barclay:

"It has always been a puzzle to me that any astrologer could associate America with Sagittarius rather than Gemini. Ebenezer Sibley, not a good astrologer, seems to be the originator of such an idea. It is a country of few pedestrians, constant change of communication as on TV, short journeys by air or road. They play football with their arms and hands and demonstrated their solidarity by holding hands across the continent; also Geminian people pove to live high up (skyscrapers)."

My personal impression so far is that the Gemini rising chart is most descriptive for the American spirit and way of life, yet the Sagittarius rising chart is most accurate in terms of transits and progressions. Which one is it, then?

Finally, this duality or lack of consensus is SO descriptive for the mutable axis Gemini-Sagittarius. Gemini stands for multple items of the same kind (such as twins). In this case - charts.

Ok, I've had my say. Now, its your turn! :mrgreen:


I've always recommended and used the Sibley chart, however, after reading the other day Dane Rudyhar's argument against these commonly used charts for the U.S.A. I've now come to seriously considering the chart he is recommending.



He made a ton of really worthwhile and good points to re-consider our favorite choice for a U.S.A. founding chart. One he suggests, the ones we commonly use are really more the American people's psyche, emotions and thoughts, (sort of like in horary for the querant) to be considered - while his alternative chart, is founded more on the Constitution itself kind of set in concrete at this time. Please, if you have a trine to Uranus or consider yourselves Uranian as I do myself, with rather positive aspects to Uranus in Gemini, give this a hearing:


He said: "A merely local event, like what happened at Concord, cannot be considered a real expression of the united will to live of the Colonists.
Charts erected for July 2nd and July 4th 1776 can only refer to this united will to live - to the fundamental individuality — of the American people. People, not nation. There was no American national organism before 1789."

http://www.khaldea.com/.../astro.../riddleusahoroscope.shtml
 
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!4C

Well-known member
It's fascinating that Americans flipped from complacency to panic as mercury (antagonistic news media) was station-direct on the Sibley moon (the public).
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
*
astrologer Nina Gryphon joins the podcast to talk about
question of what is the correct birth chart for the United States :smile:
and to review some of the different possible horoscopes that are available.

While this sounds like a simple question :smile:
there are actually a number of different birth dates and birth times
that are possible candidates for the founding of the United States as country
and each of these options yield slightly
or sometimes extremely different planetary placements.
The purpose of this episode
was to provide a broad overview of the the issue
and to review some of the different charts that have been used
or proposed by astrologers at different points in time.

Most of the research for this episode was compiled by Nina
and we also wanted to give a special shout-out
to astrologer Gary Lorentzen for his contributions and advice
as well as the AstroDatabank entry on the chart of the US
and Nicholas Campion's Book of World Horoscopes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPMj_DC--gw
 

david starling

Well-known member
Strangely, Bill Maher suddenly became "Politically Correct" regarding that subject. The Heat was on to toe the official line, presided over by none other than....:wink:FBI Director R. Mueller. Now, the official line is that Russian agents operating on American soil had nothing significant to do with the outcome of the last Presidential election. "Plausible deniablity"--what a great expression!

[Edit] This has changed--everyone, even Fox News, now admits the Russians significantly affected the election in Trump's favor. Of course the Trump campaign didn't ASK them to, they did it on their own. :whistling:

So, is Covid-19 a bio-weapon, or simply a Force of Nature?
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
What about the USA in 2020 from May 7/8 (full moon in scorpio) to Dec 14/15 when the lunar nodes are Gemini/Sagittarius? Are these going to be hard times and how much harder can they get? And now Venus at retrograde is in Gemini, what would it do to Donald Trump's administration and his reelection chances?
 

leomoon

Well-known member
On Twitter some are wondering about Astrology of the heavens today, (how the planets are situated) with the new re-started promotion of conspiracy theories occurring now worldwide again.

David Starling:
Strangely, Bill Maher suddenly became "Politically Correct" regarding that subject. The Heat was on to toe the official line, presided over by none other than....:wink:FBI Director R. Mueller. Now, the official line is that Russian agents operating on American soil had nothing significant to do with the outcome of the last Presidential election. "Plausible deniablity"--what a great expression!
This has changed--everyone, even Fox News, now admits the Russians significantly affected the election in Trump's favor. Of course the Trump campaign didn't ASK them to, they did it on their own.

For example, Twitter posted this:







Trump MUST find ways to divert his followers attention away form the constant criticism and lower poll numbers both due to Covid19 and his handling or rather mis-handling of this pandemic. First - blame China,

next blame Obama(gate) , and for flavor, throw in Pizzagate again.
Nothing riles up the base like back then, and going after others like President Obama, (who left an intact advisory board in the White House to advise and aid on Pandemic readiness), They were ALL dismissed by djt. in 2017.

Now he lies and says he was left nothing to act on.


So, back this up with Pizzagate again? (just in case people don't buy into the China did it, or Obama did it everyday tweets) :biggrin:

Note that Pizzagate first came online on All Hallow’s Eve when children normally go out dressed up to collect candy. A Holiday in the U.S.A for mostly kids and some adults too.
The Sun and Mercury with the Moon at least at noontime were all in Scorpio. Trine Neptune and the SN of the Moon, (Delusions and conspiracies in the 3rd of communicating) “let’s pretend HRC made it painful for little kids” someone decided.
It is a bizarre thing to do, so Saturn & Venus in the 12th trine Uranus in the 4th. Quite “out there”.
This joke might even get us some traction (says the Russian trolls), so perhaps Pluto cj. Mars square Uranus for fun of it.
But Neptune SN and Chiron can return can’t they, after all they are Retrograde now. Expect more of Trump-Putin inspired trolling to go on spreading these insane conspiracy theories until November.
Note: Mercury & Neptune both in the degree of the Node. Not today, but in 2016 Oct.30th.
BTW: Mercury is now 01Gemini and 59” ….when it entered Gemini, Trump started again. …. Probably with Putin’s backup.


 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
.







astrologers Chris Brennan and Leisa Schaim discuss

a recent article in the New York Times
that claimed that no astrologers predicted the recent worldwide crisis
and some of the related issues with coverage of astrology
in the media, as well as the practice of mundane astrology.
we discuss the article and its claims
question the validity of some of its conclusions
and then discuss some broader issues
about the practice and perception of astrology.
We also discuss the work of two mundane astrologers
André Barbault and Richard Tarnas
and cite some relevant quotes and predictions from their works.

Misconceptions About Mundane Astrology in the Media :smile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvHiJaX33T0&feature=em-uploademail
 
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