USA charts - the ultimate debate

Bjorkstrand

Well-known member
usa scorpio rising chart
4 July 1776
2:00 pm
Hancock signed the draft document at 2 pm.
It was voted on by 11:15 am. Source = John Adams book by McCullough.
Watch the video of john adam. It doesn't take very long to get all the votes done.

4 deg scorpio rising.

Ted Roosevelt has his sun conjunct asc. He gets the parks for usa.
The sun is in the 9th house. There are a lot of "ministers' from usa. I think i made a list of 30 of them.
saturn is in the 12th. all the presidents get killed. Then they passed the civil rights bill. Nobody has died since 1964. Think about it.
Actually i like 29 libra rising(1:30pm)when kennedy announced the cuban missile crisis. sun conjuncts asc.

Jim
 

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Bjorkstrand

Well-known member
Here it is.
Sun in the 9th house
List of "ministers"
Except for Italy and the popes no other country has this.

LEVI DOWLING- he wrote the aquarian gospel
BILLY GRAHAM
BILLY SUNDAY
JOHN SMITH(THE MORMONS)
JIMMY JONES
JIMMY SWAGGART
ORAL ROBERTS
BISHOP SHEEN
MARTIN LUTHER KING
DAVID KORESH
EDGAR CAYCE
DOREEN VIRTUE
BARBARA ANN BRENNAN
CHARLES MANSON
JIMMY BAKKER
RONALD HUBBARD(SCIENTOLOGY)
MALCOHM X
JERRY FAWELL
JESSE JACKSON
JOEL OSTEEN
PAT ROBERSON
SHIRLEY MACLEAN
ART BELL
GEORGE NOORY
IAN PUNNETT
NORMAN V PEALE
ANTHONY ROBBINS
WAYNE DYER
LOUISE HAY
JAMES REDFIELD
JOHN GRAY
PRABHUPUDA(HARE KRISHNA FOUNDATION)
 
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CapAquaPis

Well-known member
The Sun in the 9th house is ruled by Sagittarius is the sign of religion, associated with community organization and "preparing one for war". The personality able to gather around the townspeople, talk vividly about the need for people's alienable rights and preparation for the struggle of freedom. Sagittarius has a warrior attitude, so does Leo (both are fire signs) and the year of Aries would led to full-blown war in the then English colonies became the USA against the tyranny of the King of England.

Although not in traditional astrology, the planets Uranus and Neptune have a powerful influence on anything solar or lunar Aquarius and Pisces. When our nation was founded, to have a Moon in Aquarius-Pisces and the planet Uranus in Gemini-Cancer (the air-water sign duo) the one planet discovered by English astronomer sir William Herschel 5 year later (1781), the binary powers of the Moon & Uranus came to stand for strong sense of nationhood and patriotism in the name of advancement in civil liberty and democracy.
 
M

may28gemini

I think that the USA's rising is Gemini and has Mars Uranus in the 1st giving us an aggressive appearance but we're also very willing to fight for freedom and individuality. My question is, how did the USA go from being small and thin Gemini rising to being overweight and lazy? Gemini rising don't tend to be fat, esp. if Mars in there.

I couldn't find anything in here talking about LA and I even though LA is a little too Aries, I'll always :love: LA from top to bottom.

I set the rising as Aries making Aries the 1st house. Look at all that overly selfish and egotistical individualism! Then there's yucky Capricorn Moon, but it's conjoined MC so that's what makes LA famous and sitting at the driver's seat of fame. Cap moon keeps everything in check with some modesty but LA really hate people who don't do things for themselves so LA doesn't tend to reward those who aren't climbers themselves. Maybe LA "invented" fame in the modern way we see "fame." Jupiter in 6th shows that we work hard and we do like to have a good time working hard- why else would the film industry be born in LA? And let's not overlook the fact that LA has zero air. Heh. LA has not been very famous for "thinking" as much as doing and taking lots of risks while doing what it does (overloaded 1st house).

Los Angeles, Calif incorporated April 4, 1850.
 

paneagle7

Well-known member
STAR GPS (system founded of Paneagle, the american sol astrologer) states; "A sign for every degree" - This forms the grid of longitude and latitude using Equator and Greenwich, to every place in the world.

The USA east is in a 30 degree zone of Gemini. The sol degree is 12 gemini, which corresponds with Boston. The sol 60th harmonic is a key degree. In addition Washington DC is in the 5 degree zone of Cancer, at the 14th degree, which is the birth sun degree of USA. Gemini covers the east coast 5 degrees which is Boston to Philadelphia, the area of the Ivy League and our first American Colleges, and the media center (New York).

I think this is why the USA is seen as Gemini, not because of a 2am birth time on July 2. There may be a relation or occasion to use the 2am gemini rising, but it is not the Independence and declaration chart, which is the main chart of vision for the USA. A look at USA sol chart will reveal some of the other symbols commonly associated with USA such as Libra and Scorpio.

Los Angeles would have a double Aquarius 1 degree from Equator and GMT, to Hollywood. South LA (117) and san Diego also is Capricorn, to go with LA Moon sign. This is the south LA POPULATION centers, and could be relative to the large mexican immigration and the original settlers of the area. But I think Aquarius (international, universal, individualistic, or crazy) is the most common signature of Los Angeles.

The 30 degree position North Latitude from Equator gives the north 30 to 60 degrees to Taurus. Los Angeles is at 4 Taurus, and
relates most to those born in late April. This includes a large group of notables; Jack Nicholson, Barbra Streisand, Debra Winger, shirley maclaine, uma thurman, Jessica Alba, and many other icons.

There is also the Pisces element of the western states, of 5 degree zone from 115 to 120, and 10 degree zone is 110 to 120, both Pisces, 12th sign elements. Lots of creative movie making and artistry. Aries comes in at 120 to 125 (5 degree zone). The 30 degree zone of the western united states is Cancer. Libra is the 5 degree zone from 30 to 35, the pretty southern USA and the west coast "Blondes" and social centers from Atlanta to LA. Scorpio covers the middle 35 to 40 north, and also financial
bread basket (relative to taurus 30 degrees of the world between 30 and 60 north) as well as the origin of storms, the madrid quake for example, and tornado alley. Denver is 39 north, which is late scorpio. The aurora killing had sol in scorpio at 26 degree. Scorpio is also 95 to 100 north, for Oklahoma City, and the drought striken western zone currently is an affect.

Notable is the USA sun at 13/14 cancer aligned with 104 West, being Denver and vicinity, the edge of the Rockies. This is also relatively to Aurora, Colorado, where recent and former Columbine events took place. The USA has a natal saturn square this Sun degree.

The USA is in a pisces and scorpio progression phase in these current years, such as 9/11, economic challenges, immigration challenges, and violence as well as charity and notable sensitivity but often estranged creativity and politics, showing weakness (pisces) and water elements, as in both sides of weather and environmentals, drought and largesse.
 
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M

may28gemini

Umm... Los Angeles is NOT Taurus. YUCK!!! That's a horrible and disgusting thing to say!!! I'm from LA and I was raised in LA and growing up in an ARIES land is very competitive. Anyone who's not from LA and moved to LA thinking that you come here to relax and just mess around and waste time, think again. Los Angeles has long been the land of Aries people and LA rewards those who act Aries (selfish, egotistical, assertive, fast, forward, direct, pushy, goal oriented, money making, independent, go-getter, aggressive, competitive, driven, ambitious, attention grabbing, etc.) LA is definitely NOT Taurus by any means (lazy, fat, over bloated, sensual, relaxed, over spending, into looking at art, slow, etc.)

I've met more Gemini people in LA than any other sign... and the majority of them were born and raised in LA. Most of those Gemini people have either a lot of fire (mimics LA's chart) or they have a ton of air (like me) to fulfill LA's missing element of air. LA acts like fire and feels fiery. Who cares about the few Taurus people who got their 15 minutes of fame? This is about mundane everyday people. I've met more random Aries people in LA climbing their way to success and I have no idea how they do it. Look at Kristen Steward. She has ZERO talent and she's blown up out of the blue because of that stupid Twilight series. She can't act even if Lee Strasberg trained her himself. But yet, she's still more famous than Jessica Alba who's busy being a Taurus mom and trying to please her good for nothing Capricorn husband.

One of my Angeleno friends is Aries Sagittarius Aries combo and doesn't have education beyond a high school diploma and she works hustles like crazy. Her Aries older sister also hustles like crazy. My Dad was born and raised in LA and he went to UCLA (a Gemini college). He's a Scorpio but he has a grand air kite so he carries a lot of air with him. My Dad was on his own since he was 16 years old and had to work really hard to go to school and then to support my Mom when they got married.

A Taurus city would be Las Vegas and that's why it's known as the place of gross sin- nothing but strip clubs and gambling. Angelenos don't need to gamble. We're too practical for that mess. We actually work real hard for our money and we're proud of that. We are really tough people and we're not always cleaned up like how the rest of the world sees us. We get down and dirty and not afraid to break things. LA loves its own fiery kind but also needs a lot of air to keep burning which is why if you live in LA and go out and meet random people, a lot of them you'll find out to be the air signs esp. Gemini.
 
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paneagle7

Well-known member
I think there're good points in that article!

GEMINI RISING OF USA AM time CHART
================================================

Let me point out why I think the USA chart is the Sag rising, the more accepted date of July 4. The SOL SIGN is the 60th harmonic sun. This being an 'essential', it is the nature of the nation, and person, the inner self as it were. The USA SOL SIGN of JULY 4 5PM is 19 Gemini. This would be conjunct the STAR CAPELLA, and marks it very much of Gemini quality. The brightest star of the north sky. I think this sign which changes every 12 hours, signifies why the Gemini rising chart gets so many nods, just as you said above.

There is also the USA sun conjunct Sirius on July 4 date. Now I am more than convinced of this, but let me say I do have a Bias. I am a 17 gemini sol degree, and my family name is ADAMS. I believe we are related to the presidents, and am sure of relation to the first governors of massachusetts. Also 77 degrees (17 gemini degree) is Washington DC longitude. My mother was born July 11, same day as John Quincy Adams, and my father oct 28, same day as John Adams. None is just coincidental. By the way, I have Uranus at 13 cancer in the 11th house conjunct the USA sun degree. Hence, The American Sol Astrologer monacre (spelling?).

There are numerous other configurations to the sun and sol degrees to make the SOL METHOD very interesting. One is Thomas Jefferson, a sol Capricorn (like mao tse tung, and Napolean - we were for jefferson, against the others) conjunct the USA pluto. I would also like to point out the american eagle group, for fun. These are sun in late capricorn, including Betty White, kevin costner, Dolly Parton, many others. The Americans like the conjunct to the Eagle star, 0 Aquarius. My wife is SOL 3 Degrees aquarius andmy moon is 14 degree sol aquarius, in the sign of the USA moon as well.

If we progress the USA sol of 19 gemini, we may find the conjunction progressed to the venus, jupiter, and the USA Sun, 14 years after 1776 (1788- Constitutional Venus, 1791 Jupiter, and then 1798/9 leading to the Sun conjunct, which is also square our Saturn. Perhaps the degrees are off a year or so by a degree or less, but the actual rectified birth time could be altered slightly from earlier than 5pm or 5:10pm. But nonetheless, this is all very engaging.

USA sol arc progressions - Gemini 1776-1787, Cancer 1787-1817, Leo 1817-1847 (includes node in early leo conjunction to monroe doctrine (1823) - we take ownership of the continent. The virgo cycle is 1847 to 1877 with Neptune conjunction of 1868/9 during reconstruction after civil war) and the important amendments of that time period. Inventions were manifesting greatly. Libra is 1877-1907 as social immigration and victorian age as well as wild west (libra = california. scorpio 1907-1937, first world war, wealth and depression. sagittarius 1937-1967 proclaims world expansion, new freedom, mashall plan, the rising at 12 sag is 1949, baby boom. Many people. Capricorn 1967-1997 with Pluto 1991 (war in kuwait), selling weapons and Afganisthan vs. Russia, Aquarius 1997-2027 Aquarian technology and internet, conjunct USA Moon is ahead around 2024. Could this mean American becomes the first universal nation on Earth? A country without borders? or something like that.

We must remember USA is in other Pisces (solar progression) and scorpio cycles currently, very watery, concern emotions and human populations. A number of concurrent cycles going on, such as usa constitution, and the world transit cycle of course.
 
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gypsygemini

New member
Umm... Los Angeles is NOT Taurus. YUCK!!! That's a horrible and disgusting thing to say!!! I'm from LA and I was raised in LA and growing up in an ARIES land is very competitive. Anyone who's not from LA and moved to LA thinking that you come here to relax and just mess around and waste time, think again. Los Angeles has long been the land of Aries people and LA rewards those who act Aries (selfish, egotistical, assertive, fast, forward, direct, pushy, goal oriented, money making, independent, go-getter, aggressive, competitive, driven, ambitious, attention grabbing, etc.) LA is definitely NOT Taurus by any means (lazy, fat, over bloated, sensual, relaxed, over spending, into looking at art, slow, etc.)

I've met more Gemini people in LA than any other sign... and the majority of them were born and raised in LA. Most of those Gemini people have either a lot of fire (mimics LA's chart) or they have a ton of air (like me) to fulfill LA's missing element of air. LA acts like fire and feels fiery. Who cares about the few Taurus people who got their 15 minutes of fame? This is about mundane everyday people. I've met more random Aries people in LA climbing their way to success and I have no idea how they do it. Look at Kristen Steward. She has ZERO talent and she's blown up out of the blue because of that stupid Twilight series. She can't act even if Lee Strasberg trained her himself. But yet, she's still more famous than Jessica Alba who's busy being a Taurus mom and trying to please her good for nothing Capricorn husband.

One of my Angeleno friends is Aries Sagittarius Aries combo and doesn't have education beyond a high school diploma and she works hustles like crazy. Her Aries older sister also hustles like crazy. My Dad was born and raised in LA and he went to UCLA (a Gemini college). He's a Scorpio but he has a grand air kite so he carries a lot of air with him. My Dad was on his own since he was 16 years old and had to work really hard to go to school and then to support my Mom when they got married.

A Taurus city would be Las Vegas and that's why it's known as the place of gross sin- nothing but strip clubs and gambling. Angelenos don't need to gamble. We're too practical for that mess. We actually work real hard for our money and we're proud of that. We are really tough people and we're not always cleaned up like how the rest of the world sees us. We get down and dirty and not afraid to break things. LA loves its own fiery kind but also needs a lot of air to keep burning which is why if you live in LA and go out and meet random people, a lot of them you'll find out to be the air signs esp. Gemini.

I joined this forum simply because of your responses.. you crack me up! I love what you have to say and as a fellow gemini, I am genuinely intrigued by what you have to say and your knowledge. I'm a sucker for geology and astrology so when they combine it's like MAGIC! :) So this is my thank you :tongue:
 
M

may28gemini

I joined this forum simply because of your responses.. you crack me up! I love what you have to say and as a fellow gemini, I am genuinely intrigued by what you have to say and your knowledge. I'm a sucker for geology and astrology so when they combine it's like MAGIC! :) So this is my thank you :tongue:

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL ahhhh only other Gemini people get my sense of humor!! I'm glad you joined and hopefully you participate in the forums and get more laughs. I haven't been on for a few months cuz I haven't really been on the net much. Isn't it just the terrible Gemini luck that we get slammed for being jerks when we're just being real and trying to throw some laughs to lighten the mood? Heh.
 

paneagle7

Well-known member

Los Angeles like every place and person has lots of signs. Los Angeles is a 1 degree Aquarius and Aquarius. west and north long and lat degrees (Aquarius = Hollywood zone)
North LA is Aquarius to west and north (1 degree Zones of 118 and 34)
The South LA areas are Capricorn to east and Capricorn to south (degrees 117 and 33)

The 30 degree zones of LA is 28 Pisces west (118 west is La La Land), and 4 Taurus (34 north). - If you look up the number of famous april taurus, you will see a significant list of Hollywood luminaries, all earning big dollars (striesand nicholson, LA kings and queens, etc)...A great many Aquarian actors as well. The entire USA North of 30 degrees is Taurus to some degree as is Europe and most of the grain growing property in the world. Ever look at the size of Americans lately? If the nation had any planets in taurus, it would be more. It has none. There is also a lot of Pisces (dreamers, creative arts, movies) in the 5 and 10 degree zones of LA. Aquarius is the air element surely. weird publicity and humanity center / population, travel visitors and immigration.

California is a Virgo state. But I suspect beyond statehood, another sign for each city, and for the specific areas before it became a state. Of course there is some Gemini in LA. Vegas 3 degree is 114 to 117 (gemini), The 3 degree west zone is cancer 117-120 and silicon valley north Cal is 120-123. Maybe the founding of Los Angeles is Gemini. I don't have that information but read account of aries solar chart with capricorn. Yes, there is surely Aries in LA, without a doubt. I suspect it is not a gemini sun either. The USA is gemini setting, with sagittarius rise in east coat, gemini to the west. This is topocentric sign.

Vegas is a gps degrees of scorpio and aries. Perfectly fitting. Hot spot for gambling.
The STAR-GPS system aligns with 1, 3, 5, 10, 15 and 30 degrees zones. Therefore, we can see that Los Angeles has many signs, a mix with some specifics. Aquarius, taurus, etc...The hard working and hustling types (Capricorn) and the movie system (Aquarius). Taurus is money of course. But most of it is generated in Hollywood. As well, the USA Pluto is in Capricorn, and relates to the fire and quake lines associated with this position. It is also the Eagle Star in Aquila is at 0 Aquarius, right in the center degree of LA. The USA Moon is Aquarius, 27 degree, giving Aquarius spots such as LA a lot of our heart and soul. Aquarius is the air element that is missing from the other charts.

For information on Star GPS and other things
www.solastrology.blogspot.com
The light is coming!
 
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who

Banned
i think this time, lady luck will still smile at Mr. Obama, and he will be the only us president who finish the red color in the world.
 

Bjorkstrand

Well-known member
14 apr 1861 Fort Sumter is bombarded
14 apr 1865 lincoln shot
14 apr 1970 apollo 13 oxygen tank explodes
15 apr 1961 bay of pigs
16 apr 2007 virginia tech massacre
18 apr 1906 san francisco earthquake
18 apr 1983 suicide bomber destroys us embassy
19 apr oklahoma city bombing
20 apr 1999 columbine high school massacre
Could the 7th house cusp of USA be conjunct the transitting sun?
20 sep 1850 Congress adopts slavery compromise when uranus + pluto are 29 deg aries
22 oct 1962 kennedy addresses nation about the cuban missile crisis
15 apr 2013 boston explosion

Jim
 

paneagle7

Well-known member
14 apr 1861 Fort Sumter is bombarded
14 apr 1865 lincoln shot
14 apr 1970 apollo 13 oxygen tank explodes
15 apr 1961 bay of pigs
16 apr 2007 virginia tech massacre
18 apr 1906 san francisco earthquake
18 apr 1983 suicide bomber destroys us embassy
19 apr oklahoma city bombing
20 apr 1999 columbine high school massacre
Could the 7th house cusp of USA be conjunct the transitting sun?
20 sep 1850 Congress adopts slavery compromise when uranus + pluto are 29 deg aries
22 oct 1962 kennedy addresses nation about the cuban missile crisis
15 apr 2013 boston explosion

Jim

sun square USA mercury and pluto from aries to cap and cancer
- every year around this time.

moon was near conj 9/11 moon this time of 4.15 boston in gemini 26/28 degrees.
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
I thank Bjorkstrand for pointing out that Lincoln was assassinated on the 14th of April. I had written it was on the 15th in another thread. He died on the 15th. [Always good to have ones facts straight...although, I'm not sure if it is the act or the death itself that counts. Does one say He was shot on the 14th and assassinated on the 15th, or that He was assassinated on the 14th and died on the 15th? No biggie...I had forgotten my history lessons and was thinking it all happened on the same day.] Also for His reminder that Fort Sumter was attacked on an April 14th.

Does anyone else find it curious that John Wilkes Booth was killed by a man named "Boston"?
 
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Zarathu

Account Closed
I've always preferred Richard Houck's chart which is for two weeks earlier at the start of the Continental Congress. Seems to work super well.
 

Bjorkstrand

Well-known member
Usa chart using 11:08 am
4 July 1776
11:08 am
Philly

The voting took place about 11 am. see John Adams book by David McCullough, p 136

Voting takes 2 minutes.

Jim
 

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AquarianEssence

Well-known member
Hi all. I got notice that there was a new reply but it looks like it has been deleted. But, I thought I'd bring in up again, (see my comments in2008) in light of all the Scorpio qualities that have been in the news lately and are escalating since 911. At the risk of being spanked again, like the first time I posted my thoughts here, I must say again, when ever I think of the US, with it's symbols, being a major world power, the assertive intervention around the world, forcing our will on other countries in various ways, including manipulation and bully tactics, I must stick with Scorpio rising. The personality of a person or a nation describes how they appear to the world, the mask they wear. No doubt the underworld quality, which would include spying undercover in the name of terror also describes a Scorpio personality. I hope at some point to take many major US events with known time to show once and for all, but for now, I compare the first shots fired beginning the civil war. I am using the time on the clock in the engraving used on the back of the $100 bill, 2:22pm. Now, for some reason the other art used on currency and other government art has this information listed at the library of congress or elsewhere, but not this one. So I find that strange in itself, but also fitting the Scorpio theme of secrecy or hidden information. I sent an email inquiring and got a very fast response saying the engraver was Joachim C Benzing and that he used a photograph. How strange because I searched his name and the only things that come up are him doing the lettering on some postage stamps. Others did the actual pictures. So, I'm not convinced this is true until I see evidence. I wish I could go to the library of congress to see all the originals. Anyway, the time is just too fitting.

Notice CW (civil war) Moon transiting US house of war, tightly square US meridian. Pluto is tightly conjunct the US descendant, the open enemy cusp, even when it is our own citizens. Venus, in the sign of freedom, has just finished a square to US Sun, being critical degree and turning point. CW Sun was at the solstice point of US ascendant. Those are key hits to support a chart.

Next, when we look at progression, we have 6 Scorpio on the MC, repeating the above hits to the US ascendant. CW descendant is the solstice point of the prog. Moon, contra-antiscion. Solar Arc Moon is within a degree of CW Moon. SA Moon is near exact square to CW Jupiter. I'm sure there is more but I don't have time to spend. I haven't even glanced at the declinations yet. Maybe someone else would like to or to look at other major events with known times.

Sunrise charts are always dependable. But, if we want to prove or disprove any birth time we need to take each and compare to major events, as many as possible.
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