Understanding Saturn

Osamenor

Staff member
I need a whole thread to help me understand what Saturn means in my birth chart. It seems like a big contradiction, the more I learn about it.

On the one hand, Saturn is the ruler of my Capricorn ascendant, which would make it the ruler of my chart. On the other hand, it's in its fall, in Cancer. Many people would say that makes it weak. On the other hand, it makes multiple aspects: it's the focal planet of a cardinal T-Square, and it rules the T-square's empty sign, and then it sextiles Mars and trines the north nodes, and maybe makes a few other aspects I forgot.

So what does this planet really mean? Does it ruling my chart mean it rules my life in some way? Or is that too simplistic? With its placement and its aspects, what's it really doing?

Powerful as it is, I really need to figure it out!
 

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ukdesifem

Well-known member
If in your 7th house, and in Cancer, it means you may experience restrictions in your home/relationship life.

I'm not sure about ruling planet. I think whilst some planets have more influence, a native is the sum of all his or her planets, aspects, elements/qualities balances, hemisphere balances, etc. One planet cannot alter that.
 

miquar

Well-known member
Hi Osamenor. The Capricorn ascendant suggests that your experience of being an autonomous individual is coloured by the Capricornian need to understand the laws of some greater whole with which you identify, and to find a niche which allows you express yourself with integrity as part of that greater whole. Saturn symbolises the function within the psyche which enables Capricornian values to be expressed - which enables us to operate as a separate unit within a greater whole.

Saturn is where we feel our separateness from life most acutely, but this separateness is really a figment of the imagination, and Saturn's ultimate purpose is to show us the futility of trying to compensate for this sense of separateness. Since you have Capricorn rising, the Saturnian process (of realising the futility of seeking worldly compensations for an illusory sense of separateness) has great bearing on your ability to emerge spontaneously into life moment by moment. The way that you engage with the world around you will be inhibited by Saturn problems (such as self-doubt, frustration and over-compensatory ambitions an cynicism) to the extent that you still believe yourself to be separate from life, and thus inherently insufficient.

Looking more closely at Saturn's placement in your chart, it is the only planet in a water sign. So the sense of separateness arises on the level of feeling. The process described above will draw you into water-type insecurities. You won't necessarily be especially aware of these insecurities, because the fire earth emphasis in your chart confers on you the luxury of generally avoiding the fact that feeling intimacy is very important to you deep down. But they are there waiting to be looked at.

Saturn's placement in the 7th house suggests that you will become more aware of your Saturn function when you are trying to function as part of a community, which can be as small as a simple partnership. You may find that you feel somehow distant or lonely in relationships- perhaps attracting partners who, like you, have a need for intimacy and surrender on some level but feel inhibited.

The t square is far more important than the quite wide sextile and sesquiquadrate aspects which Saturn also forms to Mars and Neptune respectively, though these aspects may also be significant to some extent. The oppositions occur along the meridian axis, suggesting that any Saturnian frustrations and fears, which may be experienced through a significant other (7th house), may seem to get in the way of your need to explore your potential as an individual and as a social participant. But as your expression of Saturn matures, and you find liberation from self-protective compulsions, the tension inherent in the t square will flow with increasing creativity, and you will experience a freedom more profound than could have been found if Jupiter and Uranus were left to their own devices.
 
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Krewster

Well-known member
Looking at your question from the viewpoint only of your personal planets, all those "red" lines from the transpersonal T-square fall away and, instead, Sat:

-novile's Merc;
-semi-septile's the Sun; and
-semi-novile's the Moon.

the first probably counteracts Merc's 90 to Nept (would love to hear back on this);

the second might indicate you like to go-it-alone (e.g., an independent working, studying any subject style); and

the third might calm you emotionally, though its borderline out of orb and other aspects indicate to the contrary.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Finally, I'm back! I've been taking peeks at this thread since I posted it, but not had time to log in and reply properly til now.

I'm Capricorn rising too and I have Saturn in fall in Aries, 3rd house. It can be difficult!
How so? How do you find it difficult?
Looking at your question from the viewpoint only of your personal planets, all those "red" lines from the transpersonal T-square fall away and, instead, Sat:

-novile's Merc;
-semi-septile's the Sun; and
-semi-novile's the Moon.

the first probably counteracts Merc's 90 to Nept (would love to hear back on this);
I've never even heard of septiles or noviles til now, so I can't say.

the second might indicate you like to go-it-alone (e.g., an independent working, studying any subject style)
Well, I certainly do have an independent streak, and from what I've heard, other parts of my chart indicate that, too. Strong Uranus, for instance, and maybe that retrograde Venus in Virgo also does?
 

Kannon

Well-known member
I need a whole thread to help me understand what Saturn means in my birth chart. It seems like a big contradiction, the more I learn about it.

On the one hand, Saturn is the ruler of my Capricorn ascendant, which would make it the ruler of my chart. On the other hand, it's in its fall, in Cancer. Many people would say that makes it weak. On the other hand, it makes multiple aspects: it's the focal planet of a cardinal T-Square, and it rules the T-square's empty sign, and then it sextiles Mars and trines the north nodes, and maybe makes a few other aspects I forgot.

So what does this planet really mean? Does it ruling my chart mean it rules my life in some way? Or is that too simplistic? With its placement and its aspects, what's it really doing?

Powerful as it is, I really need to figure it out!

Saturn is many things in various manifestations at different times, but can be viewed as the personal-sociological paternal factor that allows a person to learn to parent themselves instead of life lessons being learned through submission to a human/material authority structure. https://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/planets-2/#saturn

Physically it is cold and constrictive.

If you actually have Saturn in the 7th its influence will slow response to others and emphasize longer-term investment rather than superficial gratification. It also suggests that a healthy, productive partnership is key to your fullest self-expression and growth long-term.

This isn't something you can sit down and 'figure out' so much as something you learn over time.

The t-square with Uranus and Jupiter just shows that there is some tension between what is conventional and practical (Saturn) and what feels free and encouraging of growth and transcendence (Jupiter, Uranus). This probably showed in some ways in your relationship with your parents. Times in which obligations to responsibility mean delaying or controlling such freedom urges. But at times the strength of the opposition between Jupiter and Uranus is undoubtedly expressed through more spontaneous action for that sensation of freedom we all desire.

Saturn in 7th in Cancer tends to indicate a practical mate more interested in loyalty than emotional gratification.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Hi Osamenor. The Capricorn ascendant suggests that your experience of being an autonomous individual is coloured by the Capricornian need to understand the laws of some greater whole with which you identify, and to find a niche which allows you express yourself with integrity as part of that greater whole. Saturn symbolises the function within the psyche which enables Capricornian values to be expressed - which enables us to operate as a separate unit within a greater whole.

Saturn is where we feel our separateness from life most acutely, but this separateness is really a figment of the imagination, and Saturn's ultimate purpose is to show us the futility of trying to compensate for this sense of separateness. Since you have Capricorn rising, the Saturnian process (of realising the futility of seeking worldly compensations for an illusory sense of separateness) has great bearing on your ability to emerge spontaneously into life moment by moment. The way that you engage with the world around you will be inhibited by Saturn problems (such as self-doubt, frustration and over-compensatory ambitions an cynicism) to the extent that you still believe yourself to be separate from life, and thus inherently insufficient.

Looking more closely at Saturn's placement in your chart, it is the only planet in a water sign. So the sense of separateness arises on the level of feeling. The process described above will draw you into water-type insecurities. You won't necessarily be especially aware of these insecurities, because the fire earth emphasis in your chart confers on you the luxury of generally avoiding the fact that feeling intimacy is very important to you deep down. But they are there waiting to be looked at.

Saturn's placement in the 7th house suggests that you will become more aware of your Saturn function when you are trying to function as part of a community, which can be as small as a simple partnership. You may find that you feel somehow distant or lonely in relationships- perhaps attracting partners who, like you, have a need for intimacy and surrender on some level but feel inhibited.

The t square is far more important than the quite wide sextile and sesquiquadrate aspects which Saturn also forms to Mars and Neptune respectively, though these aspects may also be significant to some extent. The oppositions occur along the meridian axis, suggesting that any Saturnian frustrations and fears, which may be experienced through a significant other (7th house), may seem to get in the way of your need to explore your potential as an individual and as a social participant. But as your expression of Saturn matures, and you find liberation from self-protective compulsions, the tension inherent in the t square will flow with increasing creativity, and you will experience a freedom more profound than could have been found if Jupiter and Uranus were left to their own devices.

And this post here, I've had to think about again and again. Does this really reflect my life? I'd say yes and no and maybe. Self doubt, frustration, over compensatory ambition... yes. Attracting partners who need intimacy but feel inhibited... maybe. Lonely in relationships... sometimes yes, sometimes no. Depends on which relationship we're talking about and when.
 

miquar

Well-known member
Couldn't help noticing that the words 'please' and 'thank you' don't appear in the entire thread. This can be more likely with Capricorn rising, and also with a fire earth emphasis. I think Capricorn often feels embarrassed about needing help and/or feels awkward about the possibility of a plea for help falling flat.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Couldn't help noticing that the words 'please' and 'thank you' don't appear in the entire thread.
Yes they do. You just said them. :tongue:
This can be more likely with Capricorn rising, and also with a fire earth emphasis. I think Capricorn often feels embarrassed about needing help and/or feels awkward about the possibility of a plea for help falling flat.
Capricorn rising is also practical. This Capricorn rising takes advantage of the thank you buttons so thoughtfully provided by this forum, so as to thank respondents and then get down to the business of actually having a discussion without wasting words! :D
 

miquar

Well-known member
The world needs more economically-minded people! Thanks for your 'Thanks' click - to be honest I had posted my last post on my phone, which doesn't show these things.

Are you feeling any clearer about the issues you raised at the beginning of the thread?
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Are you feeling any clearer about the issues you raised at the beginning of the thread?

Somewhat. To be honest, it just came home to me when I answered another thread by someone else who also has Capricorn rising and Saturn as the only water sign planet... I don't see these issues so easily in myself, but when someone else describes them, I get an aha, me too experience.

In fact, reading the responses in this thread over the last few weeks has sometimes made me acutely aware of that sense of separateness and isolation from others. I'd chalked it up to life experiences. And around now, transiting Saturn has been squaring my sun and trining my natal Saturn... maybe it's not a coincidence that I brought this up now!

I also find it interesting, since I'm looking at north and south nodes as well (mainly in another thread), that Saturn is sextile my south nodes and trine my north nodes. I think that suggests it's a helpful influence in that journey, but maybe a very unconscious influence on the karmic level?
 

Thirdteenth

Well-known member
Hi Osamenor. The Capricorn ascendant suggests that your experience of being an autonomous individual is coloured by the Capricornian need to understand the laws of some greater whole with which you identify, and to find a niche which allows you express yourself with integrity as part of that greater whole. Saturn symbolises the function within the psyche which enables Capricornian values to be expressed - which enables us to operate as a separate unit within a greater whole.

Saturn is where we feel our separateness from life most acutely, but this separateness is really a figment of the imagination, and Saturn's ultimate purpose is to show us the futility of trying to compensate for this sense of separateness. Since you have Capricorn rising, the Saturnian process (of realising the futility of seeking worldly compensations for an illusory sense of separateness) has great bearing on your ability to emerge spontaneously into life moment by moment. The way that you engage with the world around you will be inhibited by Saturn problems (such as self-doubt, frustration and over-compensatory ambitions an cynicism) to the extent that you still believe yourself to be separate from life, and thus inherently insufficient.

Looking more closely at Saturn's placement in your chart, it is the only planet in a water sign. So the sense of separateness arises on the level of feeling. The process described above will draw you into water-type insecurities. You won't necessarily be especially aware of these insecurities, because the fire earth emphasis in your chart confers on you the luxury of generally avoiding the fact that feeling intimacy is very important to you deep down. But they are there waiting to be looked at.

Saturn's placement in the 7th house suggests that you will become more aware of your Saturn function when you are trying to function as part of a community, which can be as small as a simple partnership. You may find that you feel somehow distant or lonely in relationships- perhaps attracting partners who, like you, have a need for intimacy and surrender on some level but feel inhibited.

The t square is far more important than the quite wide sextile and sesquiquadrate aspects which Saturn also forms to Mars and Neptune respectively, though these aspects may also be significant to some extent. The oppositions occur along the meridian axis, suggesting that any Saturnian frustrations and fears, which may be experienced through a significant other (7th house), may seem to get in the way of your need to explore your potential as an individual and as a social participant. But as your expression of Saturn matures, and you find liberation from self-protective compulsions, the tension inherent in the t square will flow with increasing creativity, and you will experience a freedom more profound than could have been found if Jupiter and Uranus were left to their own devices.

I am in love with this breakdown :love: It makes so much sense. I started to think about my own Saturn placement, which is in an earth sign and I can definitely see the element of where that separateness comes in to the area that the sign my Saturn is placed in but it’s different for everyone of course. Absolutely amazing :biggrin: I’m enjoying this read!!
 

Jesusistheway

Well-known member
I need a whole thread to help me understand what Saturn means in my birth chart. It seems like a big contradiction, the more I learn about it.

On the one hand, Saturn is the ruler of my Capricorn ascendant, which would make it the ruler of my chart. On the other hand, it's in its fall, in Cancer. Many people would say that makes it weak. On the other hand, it makes multiple aspects: it's the focal planet of a cardinal T-Square, and it rules the T-square's empty sign, and then it sextiles Mars and trines the north nodes, and maybe makes a few other aspects I forgot.

So what does this planet really mean? Does it ruling my chart mean it rules my life in some way? Or is that too simplistic? With its placement and its aspects, what's it really doing?

Powerful as it is, I really need to figure it out!

your father is lording over your mother. your without a partner for some time or restricted. it squares non profits and weird people for your path. the it squares your luck w male friends or siblings. and your mind is restricted or serious. Saturn denotes the father, restrictions, death- figuratively or literal, restricted places, etc
 

Osamenor

Staff member
your father is lording over your mother.

No

your without a partner for some time

Yes

or restricted.

Restricted in what way?

it squares non profits and weird people for your path.
All my friends are eccentric, and most of my jobs have been in non profits!

the it squares your luck w male friends or siblings. and your mind is restricted or serious. Saturn denotes the father, restrictions, death- figuratively or literal, restricted places, etc

Huh??? :confused:
 
Saturn fascinates me. I have mine in Cancer in House 1 conjunct my Sun. Saturn has taught me a LOOOOOTTTT of hard lessons. I'm 45 and am in my Saturn opposition (at 14 my Saturn opp was me moving out of my country) and currently my Saturn opp is my mom dying and me not knowing she had passed until my father sent me a really mean/nasty 7 page letter telling me I wasn't liked and I didn't deserve to say my goodbyes.
Saturn really forces you to work, if you don't do the work, he'll do it for you. And when he does the work for you, it's not pretty. But if you work hard, Saturn rewards you tremendously.
Saturn is Cancer is a hard placement. I know several people who have it and it's hard as heck. Life for us isn't easy especially when it involves all things Cancerian.

Interesting thread :)

M.
 
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