Ukraine.

Moondancing

Premium Member
Does Putin care about either Ukrainian or Russian lives?
YES! US and NATO pulled out of the treaty with Ukraine in February as they thought they could overthrow Putin, seize his country and divide their natural assets. It turns out they misjudged the Russian's economic strength and it is EU that will hurt the most from war but will not admit it. Russia sees themselves literally in a battle to save their country. It's war now.

The bombing of the infrastructure is to prevent weapons to be delivered to their enemies. It started slow and one could easily see the Russians had the power to do great damage and yet Zelinski continues to say he won't talk peace until Putin is overthrown. And the US says, yeah, what Zelinski says. Would you allow China to put weapons of war in Cuba or Canada? How do you think US would react?

On the surface, I agree, it looks bad for Russia and the US media are masters at soft propaganda to emphasis this image. I'm new to geo-politics and if you have different perspective I'm willing to listen.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
YES! US and NATO pulled out of the treaty with Ukraine in February as they thought they could overthrow Putin, seize his country and divide their natural assets. It turns out they misjudged the Russian's economic strength and it is EU that will hurt the most from war but will not admit it. Russia sees themselves literally in a battle to save their country.

The bombing of the infrastructure is to prevent weapons to be delivered to their enemies. It started slow and one could easily see the Russians had the power to do great damage and yet Zelinski continues to say he won't talk peace until Putin is overthrown. And the US says, yeah, what Zelinski says. Would you allow China to put weapons of war in Cuba or Canada? How do you think US would react?

On the surface, I agree, it looks bad for Russia and the US media are masters at soft propaganda to emphasis this image. I'm new to geo-politics and if you have different perspective I'm willing to listen.

Putin first backed the separatists in Ukraine, which led to a civil war. That's when the killing started. Then, he used that civil war in Ukraine as an excuse to invade a sovereign nation and exponentially increase the death-count. Now, he's bombarding the vital infrastructure of the nation he invaded, harming the civilian population.

I don't consider this proof that Putin cares a whit about either Ukrainian or Russian lives.
 

Moondancing

Premium Member
Putin first backed the separatists in Ukraine, which led to a civil war. That's when the killing started. Then, he used that civil war in Ukraine as an excuse to invade a sovereign nation and exponentially increase the death-count. Now, he's bombarding the vital infrastructure of the nation he invaded, harming the civilian population.

I don't consider this proof that Putin cares a whit about either Ukrainian or Russian lives.
Why do we care about a civil war in Ukraine? And, send billions of dollars in weaponry to Ukraine to fight Russia that has cost Ukraine a tremendous amount of lives compared to Russia?
 

david starling

Well-known member
Why do we care about a civil war in Ukraine? And, send billions of dollars in weaponry to Ukraine to fight Russia that has cost Ukraine a tremendous amount of lives compared to Russia?

That loss of lives was due to Putin's savagery. Putin's goal from the start was to expand Russia's boundaries at the expense of Ukraine, and any excuse would do.

I can't see any possible way that the NATO countries could have effected regime change in Russia. That's a paranoid fantasy used to support Putin's invasion of a sovereign nation. Putin is an absolute dictator with world-wide influence, and armed with nuclear weapons. He's not going anywhere.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Why do we care about a civil war in Ukraine? And, send billions of dollars in weaponry to Ukraine to fight Russia that has cost Ukraine a tremendous amount of lives compared to Russia?

It's about defending Ukrainian sovereignty against a powerful neighboring country which is currently engaged in bombing it to smithereens.

No sense blaming the victim for fighting back against the aggressor.
 

Moondancing

Premium Member
That loss of lives was due to Putin's savagery. Putin's goal from the start was to expand Russia's boundaries at the expense of Ukraine, and any excuse would do.

I can't see any possible way that the NATO countries could have effected regime change in Russia. That's a paranoid fantasy used to support Putin's invasion of a sovereign nation. Putin is an absolute dictator with world-wide influence, and armed with nuclear weapons. He's not going anywhere.
Are you talking about Bucha where Zelinsky discovered a mass grave? You believe Zelinsky?

You can't see, any more than US or NATA want to accept, that Russia has National Security needs that are existential for the country. Since the Minsk agreement, Russia has gone to the UN about Western Ukraine's abuse of the Russians in Eastern Ukraine who had sovereignty. They were ignored and finally took matters into their own hands. Certainly the US doesn't abide by another country's sovereignty.
 
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Moondancing

Premium Member
It's about defending Ukrainian sovereignty against a powerful neighboring country which is currently engaged in bombing it to smithereens.

No sense blaming the victim for fighting back against the aggressor.
Russia's enemies from the beginning have believed their military is weak and economy is in tatters. Big surprise, it's not! But they continue to ignore Russia's power as it escalates and will not back down to save the lives of the millions of people who will soon find themselves refugees. Refugees flooding into Europe, worse than during the Syrian war were US wanted to overthrow Assad, who have no where to go and NATO/UN doesn't have the means to take care of them. Only way to stop it is to come to the table and talk peace. But they won't. As Millie says, "We will do as much as it takes for as long as it takes" to defeat Russia.

Upsetting to think of the peace that could have been achieved had US, NATO and Ukraine honored the Minsk agreement.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Are you talking about Bucha where Zelinsky discovered a mass grave? You believe Zelinsky?

You can't see, any more than US or NATA want to accept, that Russia has National Security needs that are existential for the country. Since the Minsk agreement, Russia has gone to the UN about Western Ukraine's abuse of the Russians in Eastern Ukraine who had sovereignty. They were ignored and finally took matters into their own hands. Certainly the US doesn't abide by another country's sovereignty.

They weren't "Russians". They were Russian-speaking UKRAINIANS, without sovereignty within the borders of Ukraine, who also knew the official language of their country, which is Ukrainian. Putin offered them support if they fought a CIVIL WAR to secede. If they were so eager to live in a country where Russian was the official language, they had only to emigrate to Russia, or another country where it's the official language (there are several).
 

Moondancing

Premium Member
They weren't "Russians". They were Russian-speaking UKRAINIANS, without sovereignty within the borders of Ukraine, who also knew the official language of their country, which is Ukrainian. Putin offered them support if they fought a CIVIL WAR to secede. If they were so eager to live in a country where Russian was the official language, they had only to emigrate to Russia, or another country where it's the official language (there are several).
Think about it, David. That is sad. They were designated Ukrainian by a previous Russian ruler but all the people knew was it was their home. And now the new ruler demands you be Ukrainian and speak their language and any thing else they feel necessary.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Think about it, David. That is sad. They were designated Ukrainian by a previous Russian ruler but all the people knew was it was their home. And now the new ruler demands you be Ukrainian and speak their language and any thing else they feel necessary.

That wasn't Zelensky. He speaks both languages. It was a previous administration and the parliament that made Ukrainian the official language. In Russia, Russian is the official language.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Yes. It certainly wasn't going on before. No Clintons, Bidens, anyone like that doing shady deals, and the US never interfered with Ukrainian politics.

I mean, it must be one of the most corrupt countries on earth for mysterious reasons we'll never know.

All these billions of U.S. tax money wouldn't be flowing to the Ukraine and wherever else it's going, if it weren't for Putin's War.
 

Cap

Well-known member
All these billions of U.S. tax money wouldn't be flowing to the Ukraine and wherever else it's going, if it weren't for Putin's War.

Billions of US tax money are not flowing to Ukraine but to US MIC after Biden and Zelensky take their cut. Ukrainian people have seen zero US money. Money goes directly into US MIC coffers for which they deliver old weaponry, most of which ends up who knows where as it's being sold on the black markets. For weaponry that actually ends up in Ukraine, there are thousands of NATO soldiers sent there as "contractors" because Ukrainians don't know how to operate those weapons.
This must make you proud of your government and surely you want to support them even more as US citizen.
If you want to play moral blame game, you should start by condemning, investigating and eventually jailing virtually every US administration for crimes against humanity, illegal aggressions on sovereign countries and breaking of international law. Once you clean up the garbage in your own country that would give you moral high ground to condemn similar acts elsewhere in the world.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Billions of US tax money are not flowing to Ukraine but to US MIC after Biden and Zelensky take their cut. Ukrainian people have seen zero US money. Money goes directly into US MIC coffers for which they deliver old weaponry, most of which ends up who knows where as it's being sold on the black markets. For weaponry that actually ends up in Ukraine, there are thousands of NATO soldiers sent there as "contractors" because Ukrainians don't know how to operate those weapons.
This must make you proud of your government and surely you want to support them even more as US citizen.
If you want to play moral blame game, you should start by condemning, investigating and eventually jailing virtually every US administration for crimes against humanity, illegal aggressions on sovereign countries and breaking of international law. Once you clean up the garbage in your own country that would give you moral high ground to condemn similar acts elsewhere in the world.

I wish this whole thing had never happened. I blame Putin for making it happen.

Same as I blame Clinton for bombing Serbia and Bush/Cheney for the Iraq debacle.
 

Moondancing

Premium Member

My recent interview: "Donbas after 8 years of war​

Links below are other stories.

Fascinating reporting on the days leading up to the start of the war. If not for the panic, would this war have started?

US/UK Go Into Panic over Ukraine War. Russia Conducts Exercises in Belarus. Zelensky Calls for Calm​


Maybe these have already been posted, if so, my apologies.
 
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blackbery

Well-known member
I wish this whole thing had never happened. I blame Putin for making it happen.


That's nice but you're missing the part where Obama/Nuland overthrew the legally elected Ukranian President
in 2014 (Viktor Yanukovych who was anti-EU & pro-Russia) & replaced him with a NATO puppet.
They've been puppets installed since, including the current traitor Zelensky who works 4 the 'swamp' & not the
people of Ukraine.
They have to have their puppets installed in almost every NATO country to do the 'bidding' of the NWO.

Over 90 BILLION now sent to Ukraine from the US alone (billions from other countries) & it's all gone to bribe & buy
off the Ukrainian oligarchs, corrupt politicians in NATO/EU & in the Dem & Rep Party. (RINOs).
The Military-Industrial complex MUST be Fed!

Each country like the UK/Germany do their own money-laundering.

IT'S ALL ONE BIG MONEY GRIFT!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:



“The shambolic 30-year-old whiz kid, once said to have been worth $16 billion, had spent $10 million helping get
Biden elected in 2020,” reported the New York Post about SBF.

Billions of tax-payer monies were funneled via FTX, who then distributed the money to various entities & politicians,
mainly in the Democrat Party.

Binance, an early FTX investor, linked to CCP, WEF and UN​

Are communist Chinese globalists pulling the strings of​

American elections?😌😌😌

 

blackbery

Well-known member
And, Putin made it ALL possible. What a guy!

Russia could have destroyed Ukraine in a week. They are the #1 military super-power.
From the beginning, Putin only ordered small military presence to target the bio-labs, protect the Russian-speaking
Ukranians in the Eastern areas (who have voted 90% or higher to LEAVE Ukraine & re-join Mother Russia) & to gain
control over the nuclear planets since the NWO were planning on building a 'dirty bomb".

The people were never the target & that's why the military operation is taking much longer than anticipated.
It's the Ukranian nazi military that have targeted, killed, raped & assaulted their own people.
It's the Ukranian nazi military that have used chemical weapons against the Russians.
It's the Ukranian nazi military that have tortured, brutalized & killed Russian POWs.
It's the Ukranian nazi military that the people of Ukraine are terrified of; they are demonic beasts.

But make no mistake. Putin will NEVER allow his people to be genocided again like they have been
for the past 7 years (with NATO doing NOTHING except ignore it).
Putin will NEVER allow NATO to place nuclear missiles on Ukraine borders right next to Russia.
Putin will NEVER allow NATO to break every treaty, agreement & promise they made w/Russia & will
keep Russian troops in Ukraine until it's safe for his motherland.

The NWO is collapsing & Ukraine is their biggest money-laundering grift; they can't let it go without being totally
destroyed by Putin.

The satanic cabal even tried to start ww3 by firing missile into Poland (which killed 2 innocent Poles) & then blaming
'Putin bad'.
Didn't work. The Truth is out there now & they can't stop the REAL news about Ukraine coming out.

FTX scandal the final icing on the cake that will take down the NATO/US control over Ukraine.

Freedom & Justice finally coming for ALL Ukranians.🙏🙏🙏
 
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