Ukraine Invasion discussion thread.

chiamaria

Well-known member
Sorry waybread, I don't really read your posts anymore, so reply all you want, but this is all you'll get from me.
 

leomoon

Well-known member
The real question now is, how far will Putin be able to go in reestablishing the USSR?


No one except seasoned psychiatrists can establish any real potential answers to that question with a brutal maniac who lacks a higher conscience (which of course exists, but isn't utilized here) :devil:



People always ask this question concerning evil dictators. Seldom do they guess correctly because we all put ourselves in their place and really can't do so. We (who utilize) our higher conscience.



As I always said about politicians who are this way (dictators in some fashion without morals) ; "give them a foot they take a mile"....Same thing here.
 

leomoon

Well-known member
I really do wish, the TV pundits and all would stop using the term, "sovereign country" as somehow, immune or should be from brutal outside attacks.


Reminds me of Iraq which like him or not, had an equivalent, "Sovereign country established" but it didn't stop the USA under G.W. Bush from taking it over and establishing our own puppet govt.



Best to be honest about it. :pouty:


Iraqi sovereignty was interrupted by the multinational forces which overthrew Saddam Hussein in the 2003 invasion of Iraq.



*all justified with "faulty intelligence"
 

waybread

Well-known member
Is he just that stupid or is he delusional to believe the the USA just invaded by sea, the Ukraine? :wink: This is not the first time, he's done this in public, (showed his absolute lack of knowledge of American History) an insult to the office he once held.

I think he believes that he can manufacture "truth" just by saying so. He had a consistent pattern of blatant lying during his presidency, of which the "stolen election" was simply the capstone.

He's obviously trying to weaken America's hand.

Trump is licking Putin's boots, as per my post on Trump's debt profile. If I wanted to be a conspiracy theorist, I would go beyond what I wrote.
 

waybread

Well-known member
So, MSM actually predicted that Russia was going to invade the Ukraine weeks ago? All I was seeing were exhortations to "Get vaccinated!!!" And, negative reports about the Canadian truckers protest.

There were dire warnings about China invading Taiwan last year. But nothing about Russia invading the Ukraine. And nothing about Putin planning to reform the Soviet Union by force.

Are there any articles you could link predicting this "weeks" ago?

David, this was on the major US evening network TV news broadcasts, the BBC, CNN, and my Washington Post and NYT news apps. Even the CBC was reporting it, although generally after the situation in Ottawa.

I don't know how many news reports you can access without a subscription.

The one MSM that downplayed it was Fox. Surprise, surprise.

Where are you getting your news?

Most of the older reports on MSM have been bumped out by breaking news from the past day or two, but try these:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/02/putin-ukraine-democracy/621465/

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/25/five-things-to-know-about-russia-ukraine-tensions

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...raine-a-road-trip-shows-putin-s-war-price-tag

https://www.csis.org/analysis/russias-possible-invasion-ukraine
 

waybread

Well-known member
Americans didn't know that Putin invaded Georgia when Bush was president, or that he took Crimea when Obama was president?


That seems strange....


Trump sanctioned Russia, and things were (relatively) okay. Then Biden got into office, lifted the sanctions, and gave him Nordstream.


I'm very confused about how this is all Trump's fault. I think it's more likely Putin's fault.

Of course this is Putin's fault, Oddity. This isn't funny.

Did you forget the ongoing Russian invasion of the eastern Ukraine, which was a hot war during Trump's presidency?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War

It's merely pathetic that the cost of keeping Putin somewhat at bay for four years was Trump licking Putin's boots.

Keep in mind that there are other world powers with a pony in this race, notably the EU.
 
Last edited:

waybread

Well-known member
You need to be truthful, Dirius.

Nobody says the current Russian war against Ukraine is Trump's fault.

It is Vladimir Putin's fault.

I'm really not understanding the liberal logic going on here. Putin invaded Ukraine while Biden is president, but this in your view is somehow Trump's fault? Come on, this has nothing to do with Trump. If he had somehow been Putin's puppet, then Putin would have invaded Ukraine during Trump's presidency.
 

david starling

Well-known member
David, this was on the major US evening network TV news broadcasts, the BBC, CNN, and my Washington Post and NYT news apps. Even the CBC was reporting it, although generally after the situation in Ottawa.

I don't know how many news reports you can access without a subscription.

The one MSM that downplayed it was Fox. Surprise, surprise.

Where are you getting your news?

Most of the older reports on MSM have been bumped out by breaking news from the past day or two, but try these:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/02/putin-ukraine-democracy/621465/

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/25/five-things-to-know-about-russia-ukraine-tensions

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...raine-a-road-trip-shows-putin-s-war-price-tag

https://www.csis.org/analysis/russias-possible-invasion-ukraine


All right. So, by watching the news three weeks ago, you KNEW Putin was going to invade? Or, was just threatening to invade? I thought he would back off and negotiate. I overestimated his character-level.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Try to be factual Dirius. It is disgusting to politicize an unprovoked war that is killing people and toppling a democracy when you belong to none of the involved countries.

1. Biden kept Trump's sanctions in place.

2. We can look at global oil markets, but the US was never a major purchaser of Russian oil. Most of Russia's oil and gas revenues (something like 70%) come from Europe; with a sizeable share also coming from eastern Asia. The US is a purchaser of Russian oil, but it's way down on the list of customers.

3. We agree that Trump sold weapons to Ukraine. But this doesn't hurt Russia an iota if Ukraine never has to use them.

I'd post links to justify my claims, but since you wouldn't read them anyway, I'll leave it at that.

Why would he have to wait? if Trump had been his puppet, he could have done anything he wanted.

During Trump's presidency the U.S. became energy independant, and the amount of oil purchased from Russia went down significantly, hurting Russia. Trump sold weapons to Ukraine. Trump applied harsher sanctions to Russia than Biden has. The facts show a much diferent scenario: Trump's presidency was very hurtful to russian hegemony.

The claim doesn't stand to fact.
 

Dirius

Well-known member
Try to be factual Dirius. It is disgusting to politicize an unprovoked war that is killing people and toppling a democracy when you belong to none of the involved countries.

David, leomoon and you made like 8 posts talking about Trump. I merely responded to david's post on Trump.

But somehow you try to chastize me for "politicizing" this thread? WTAF?
 

waybread

Well-known member
Good point, that Russia's war against the eastern Ukraine (started in 2014) continued throughout Trump's presidency.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War

Most of us are not wild-eyed conspiracy theorists, so "no" to the rest of your utterly misguided post.

For the record, the Canadian trucker convoy protest was started by a small group of truckers protesting border red tape-- agreed upon by both sides. The great majority of Canadian truckers-- and Canadians-- were already double-vaxxed. The trucker protest was quickly co-opted by a bunch of anti-vaxxers who broke multiple laws and harassed residents of downtown Ottawa. Now they will face legal charges.


Exactly. The Russia-Ukraine conflict has been going on since 2012-13 or whenever. They could have easily started a war by now, especially under Trump's watch if Trump were the war monger that people claim he is. However, that hadn't happened. My bigger question is why are they choosing 2022 to renew the conflict? Is it because maybe they want to distract us all from other things that actually affect the whole world? Things such as the cabal's plan to usher us into a technocratic dystopian social credit rating slavery system, and so they want all eyes directed away? Especially since the trucker convoys are raising awareness and people are also slowly waking up to how dangerous these vaccines are?
 
Last edited:

david starling

Well-known member
All right. So, by watching the news three weeks ago, you KNEW Putin was going to invade? Or, was just threatening to invade? I thought he would back off and negotiate. I overestimated his character-level.


Waybread, I read your links. One was after the invasion. The others had reasons for why he probably wouldn't do it. And for the media, the Convoy took top billing.
 

david starling

Well-known member
David, leomoon and you made like 8 posts talking about Trump. I merely responded to david's post on Trump.

But somehow you try to chastize me for "politicizing" this thread? WTAF?


I said Trump couldn't have prevented it. He's the one hurling insults at our President in the midst of the crisis and claiming he could have.
 

leomoon

Well-known member
I think he believes that he can manufacture "truth" just by saying so. He had a consistent pattern of blatant lying during his presidency, of which the "stolen election" was simply the capstone.

He's obviously trying to weaken America's hand.

Trump is licking Putin's boots, as per my post on Trump's debt profile. If I wanted to be a conspiracy theorist, I would go beyond what I wrote.


I agree with what you've said, but he REALLY is that stupid. He REALLY believed the things he said about history. He's not even smart enough to figure out no matter how often you say " the sky is green" enough times eventually in your little world, the sky will be green and no longer blue as the sane people see it.



The old belief system he attached himself to as a very young man who went with his dad to hear the seminars of Norman Vincent Peale works in theory only, and not for everyone. Sometimes, as with djt, you need to break rules or morale behavior in order to get what you want and bend the truth until you do, (as with bank loans and real estate proffers) all the while engaging in repetitious nonsense. Courts have been that brick wall, he crashes into when they say, "NO, the sky is REALLY blue"


From Mary Trump -

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/10/how...an-vincent-peale-influenced-donald-trump.html

“By the time this book is published, hundreds of thousands of American lives will have been sacrificed on the altar of Donald’s hubris and willful ignorance. If he is afforded a second term, it would be the end of American democracy,” she writes.



I think it's akin to today's preachers who preach the "Prosperity Gospel", as some of these old habitual teachings are eventually reincarnated in different generations. The old "think it and it becomes real"...."Say it, and it's even MORE real" and will "manifest into reality".


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Vincent_Peale


The trumps "used" these teachings, and warped them in crooked ways to amass a fortune.



I once researched Peale's original (not so original) background of his teachings, and went back 100 yrs or more before he was born. Same ideas. Probably could even go back a far (stretch perhaps), as Descartes "I think therefore, I am" but then warp it.



I like what my mother taught me better. A witty, but quite wise, Sagittarius 12/14 /22 Sun lady who would say, "sh-- in one hand, and wish in the other - SEE which hand gets filled first". :biggrin: She had a way with word and metaphors.




When it comes to Ukraine, I told my husband, "IF I had a say in the whole matter (in the WH as a whisperer), I'd lean towards saving the people of Ukraine in their last moments of hope before Kiev is completely overtaken by Putin perhaps as early as tomorrow.



How? I suggested, looking at the date of their NATO application, and grandfathering it in. Not that easy I see -

Why is Ukraine not in Nato?

Nato first floated the idea of Ukrainian and Georgian membership in 2008 under pressure from American President George W. Bush.
However, France and Germany opposed - unanimous consent is required for any nations wishing to join Nato.
As of February 25, 2022, countries – Bosnia and Herzegovina, Georgia, and Ukraine – are considered “aspiring members.”



THEN I turn on TV and see the end of the interview that Rep. Adam Kinzinger who was the head of the War Committee and has access to all that military info. , he was also in the Air Force prior to becoming a Republican Congressman, now one of two with a conscience on the Jan. 6th committee in that party along with Liz Cheney. He too was looking for a last minute save as I was, but of course, he is in Congress and is privvy to all sorts of insider info for the Military capabilities.


What he said was the USA along with the majority of NATO countries agreeing, can offer upon request from the Ukrainian President; "air space cover" with NATO jets.


He insisted that Putin would not be able to overtake them.
Blitzer asked about WW3 starting - in effect,the same as I was asked with my less informed solution.



In a nutshell, here is the answer:


"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." — Elie Wiesel

"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, and others make it happen." — Michael Jordan

"Strong people stand up for themselves, but stronger people stand up for others." — Suzy Kassem


"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything." — Albert Einstein

"How much of human life is lost in waiting." — Ralph Waldo Emerson



"If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"


----------------------------------------------------------------------


We need to show Zelensky, he doesn't stand alone as a lamb to slaughter!!
It's the moral thing to do.



(the air-space issue - a "no fly zone" ) is the most realistic way., and then patrol it.
 
Last edited:
Top