Ukraine Invasion discussion thread.

david starling

Well-known member
Americans didn't know that Putin invaded Georgia when Bush was president, or that he took Crimea when Obama was president?


That seems strange....


Trump sanctioned Russia, and things were (relatively) okay. Then Biden got into office, lifted the sanctions, and gave him Nordstream.



I'm very confused about how this is all Trump's fault. I think it's more likely Putin's fault.


Yeah, it's all on Putin. :devil:

But Trump couldn't have stopped him.
 

Witchyone

Well-known member
I think, because of the last administration quite frankly; the citizens of this country did not "realize" or comprehend how very dangerous Putin is, plus he is as with the last president of this country, a habitual liar.

i.e. "you cannot trust him".


I'm not the least bit surprised really that he is now threatening Finland and/or the Swiss.



The biggest test (fish in the sea) as a Democracy for him was the USA, and he scored big big points with his own pick. I also don't know WHY people in this country cannot or will not see it and therefore, through them.



Last week, the President or PM of Finland was in an interview expressing his great concern for his country. :pouty: He said they share 839 miles of border with Russia. He's advanced so much because of the politics of djt,steven bannon, and even the once respected General Flynn turning against their own country, that NOW, he is drunk (metaphorically) with his own power as he perceives it to be. And his many wins in the past 4 yrs (Syria, taking away the war games in South Korea, so on and so forth with trump), made him far more then he once was.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Treaty_on_Korean_Peninsula



All he needs are more players in place in high places once again and he's a sure winner.

I think what surprises me so much is just how stupid it is. They can take Ukraine, but they can't hold it. There will be a nonstop insurgency within the country and crippling sanctions on Russian citizens as long as they are occupying Ukraine. And now he wants to threaten other countries as well? It's beyond bold. It is dumb. I have always had a dim view of Putin, but I believed he was cautious and clever. Apparently he is neither.
 

leomoon

Well-known member
https://www.foxnews.com/world/russian-threat-ukraine-push-finland-sweden-join-nato


Finland and now Switzerland are re-thinking now asking NATO for membership


RUSSIA THREATS, RHETORIC INCREASE CHANCE OF CONFLICT AS IT SEEKS NATO ASSURANCES
In her New Year’s Eve speech to the nation, Prime Minister Marin declared "We retain the option of applying for NATO membership. We should uphold this freedom of choice and make sure it remains a reality, as this is part of every country’s right to decide on its own security policies." Finland’s president, Sauli Niinisto, reinforced the prime minister’s sentiments in his own New Year’s Eve speech, saying "let it be stated once again: Finland’s room to maneuver and freedom of choice also include the possibility of military alignment and of applying for NATO membership, should we ourselves so decide."
Sweden’s Minister of Foreign Affairs Anne Linde also asserted that Russia does not have a veto on whatever alliance Sweden chooses to join. Defense Minister Peter Hultqvist backed up Linde and dismissed the notion that Russia has any say in Sweden’s security policies.
 

leomoon

Well-known member
Putin's puppet, DJT =boldness of Putin quick land grabs in Europe. Putin was successful in turning the USA against each other.



Vladimir Putin personally authorised a secret spy agency operation to support a “mentally unstable” Donald Trump in the 2016 US presidential election during a closed session of Russia’s national security council, according to what are assessed to be leaked Kremlin documents.
The key meeting took place on 22 January 2016, the papers suggest, with the Russian president, his spy chiefs and senior ministers all present.
They agreed a Trump White House would help secure Moscow’s strategic objectives, among them “social turmoil” in the US and a weakening of the American president’s negotiating position.
Russia’s three spy agencies were ordered to find practical ways to support Trump, in a decree appearing to bear Putin’s signature.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-show-putins-plot-to-put-trump-in-white-house




Old Sayings I'm reminded of today

"you give a stick of dynamite, you don't blame the monkey when he blows up something", Blame the people who gave the monkey (in this case Putin), the dynamite.


"There are none so blind as he who will not see" lyrics in song written by Ray Stevens





"there's none so blind as those who will not see" a proverb
 

leomoon

Well-known member
Jan. 16th, 2016:

official photo of the occasion shows Putin at the head of the table, seated beneath a Russian Federation flag and a two-headed golden eagle. Russia’s then prime minister, Dmitry Medvedev, attended, together with the veteran foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov.Also present were Sergei Shoigu, the defence minister in charge of the GRU, Russia’s military intelligence agency; Mikhail Fradkov, the then chief of Russia’s SVR foreign intelligence service; and Alexander Bortnikov, the boss of the FSB spy agency.Nikolai Patrushev, the FSB’s former director, attended too as security council secretary.
According to a press release, the discussion covered the economy and Moldova.
The document seen by the Guardian suggests the security council’s real, covert purpose was to discuss the confidential proposals drawn up by the president’s analytical service in response to US sanctions against Moscow.

Link has photo image of Russia's goals - to destablize the largest Democracy in the world.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-show-putins-plot-to-put-trump-in-white-house
 

Dirius

Well-known member
I'm really not understanding the liberal logic going on here. Putin invaded Ukraine while Biden is president, but this in your view is somehow Trump's fault? Come on, this has nothing to do with Trump. If he had somehow been Putin's puppet, then Putin would have invaded Ukraine during Trump's presidency.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Putin's puppet, DJT =boldness of Putin quick land grabs in Europe. Putin was successful in turning the USA against each other.



Vladimir Putin personally authorised a secret spy agency operation to support a “mentally unstable” Donald Trump in the 2016 US presidential election during a closed session of Russia’s national security council, according to what are assessed to be leaked Kremlin documents.
The key meeting took place on 22 January 2016, the papers suggest, with the Russian president, his spy chiefs and senior ministers all present.
They agreed a Trump White House would help secure Moscow’s strategic objectives, among them “social turmoil” in the US and a weakening of the American president’s negotiating position.
Russia’s three spy agencies were ordered to find practical ways to support Trump, in a decree appearing to bear Putin’s signature.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-show-putins-plot-to-put-trump-in-white-house




Old Sayings I'm reminded of today

"you give a stick of dynamite, you don't blame the monkey when he blows up something", Blame the people who gave the monkey (in this case Putin), the dynamite.


"There are none so blind as he who will not see" lyrics in song written by Ray Stevens





"there's none so blind as those who will not see" a proverb


Putin already had the dynamite. He just made it APPEAR he'd never use it.

Xi is said to consider himself the new Mao.

Looks like Putin wants to be the new Lenin.
 

david starling

Well-known member
I'm really not understanding the liberal logic going on here. Putin invaded Ukraine while Biden is president, but this in your view is somehow Trump's fault? Come on, this has nothing to do with Trump. If he had somehow been Putin's puppet, then Putin would have invaded Ukraine during Trump's presidency.

He was waiting for Trump's second term in office. But this "Trump really won and Biden isn't really President" stuff is working for Putin anyway.
 

leomoon

Well-known member
the message that has just been posted: from Oddity ***************
Americans didn't know that Putin invaded Georgia when Bush was president, or that he took Crimea when Obama was president? That seems strange....
Actually, G.W. Bush invited Vladimir Putin to his ranch in Texas, often called Bush's 2nd White House as he used for vacations and time off.

This was not all that unusual even Saudi Arabian friends of the Bush family were invited here, to stay as well as the Royals from Saudi Arabia.

As for Putin staying at the ranch? Well,it raised eyebrows back then, not so much as him wearing a Texas 5 Gal hat riding around the ranch in Bush's jeep with him, but because of what G.W.Bush said to the public:

"I looked into his eyes, I could see his soul".


2001:
https://www.nbcnews.com/video/flashback-president-bush-on-putins-soul-208352323648


As for President Obama?

He put sanctions onto Putin and Russia for doing that, (Crimea was not part of NATO either, so legally could not militarily stop him.

TRUMP:
However, in January 2017, with the new POTUS, trump worked on removing those sanctions from his good buddy and mentor in all strong arm techniques, Vladimir Putin.

He also invited the Russians, (Putin's right hand man, Lakrov and others working in close proximity) to the Oval Office, the first time EVER Russians were invited in.

There are lots of photos published of them. It happened the first month he was in office, January 2017. Putin used these photos for P.R. in Russia, and certainly helped him gain popularity in Russia which today, (or last week) he still enjoyed.

It was also realized later that trump gave the Russians a top secret info, he received via Israel on the Middle East.

Yep, him!


Photos:



https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=trump%20Russians%20in%20Oval%20Office&qs=n&form=QBIR&sp=-1&pq=trump%20russians%20in%20oval%20office&sc=0-29&cvid=29B38D8C3C044221BC9DFC24438119C3&first=1&tsc=ImageBasicHover
 
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Dirius

Well-known member
He was waiting for Trump's second term in office. But this "Trump really won and Biden isn't really President" stuff is working for Putin anyway.

Why would he have to wait? if Trump had been his puppet, he could have done anything he wanted.

During Trump's presidency the U.S. became energy independant, and the amount of oil purchased from Russia went down significantly, hurting Russia. Trump sold weapons to Ukraine. Trump applied harsher sanctions to Russia than Biden has. The facts show a much diferent scenario: Trump's presidency was very hurtful to russian hegemony.

The claim doesn't stand to fact.
 

leomoon

Well-known member
From Amnesty International (my in box):


I wanted to make sure you saw this email from my colleague Alexandra yesterday — her family and friends are currently seeking safety in Ukraine, and our Amnesty Ukraine colleagues are working around the clock to protect the human rights of those most at-risk.
Using ballistic missiles and other explosive weapons with wide area effects in densely populated areas — these are indiscriminate attacks which may amount to war crimes. The most horrific consequences will be felt by civilians.
In less than 48 hours, more than 50,000 Ukrainians have fled their country, creating another human rights crisis on top of the disaster currently unfolding.
 

Oddity

Well-known member
My question stands, despite the distraction. Americans didn't know Putin was dangerous? They didn't know about Georgia or Crimea?



It wasn't until Russian agencies infiltrated the Trump admin (I'm sorry, but that particular Guardian spin on espionage doesn't look especially credible), and that made them think Putin wasn't dangerous because he controlled Trump?


But if it is true and everyone now knows that America is only divided because of Russian agents, that's good isn't it? You all came back together afther that?



Still confused....
 

david starling

Well-known member
Why would he have to wait? if Trump had been his puppet, he could have done anything he wanted.

During Trump's presidency the U.S. became energy independant, and the amount of oil purchased from Russia went down significantly, hurting Russia. Trump sold weapons to Ukraine. Trump applied harsher sanctions to Russia than Biden has. The facts show a much diferent scenario: Trump's presidency was very hurtful to russian hegemony.

The claim doesn't stand to fact.

It's said that Russian leaders are "chess players", and think in long terms.

The U.S. is the largest oil producer in the world. But, our oil companies sell most of it abroad. Currently, investors in the U.S. are demanding less production, because less supply raises the prices and gives them more monetary returns. OPEC has also cut production.
 

Oddity

Well-known member
Yes. Justin made sanctions today. Russian parliament members aren't allowed to have Canadian bank accounts. I'm sure that'll hurt.


But Canada will keep buying Russian oil, because it's good to shut down the oil and gas industry in Alberta.


Biden's been doing much the same in the US. I can't believe it's good for the country.


And of course nobody's talking about peak oil and how to deal with that, they're saying solar/wind will solve it. I guess they don't know napkin math.



Why would he have to wait? if Trump had been his puppet, he could have done anything he wanted.

During Trump's presidency the U.S. became energy independant, and the amount of oil purchased from Russia went down significantly, hurting Russia. Trump sold weapons to Ukraine. Trump applied harsher sanctions to Russia than Biden has. The facts show a much diferent scenario: Trump's presidency was very hurtful to russian hegemony.

The claim doesn't stand to fact.
 

Oddity

Well-known member
On the possibly bright side, Russia did bomb 15 US biolabs situated on the border between Russia and Ukraine.



Hope nobody was hurt. Don't much like biolabs these days, though.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Trump couldn't stop Nordstream. He couldn't stop N. Korea's nuclear or long-range missile programs. He couldn't have stopped Putin's Ukraine invasion.

Didn't get Hillary locked up either. :lol:
 

Roks

Well-known member

chiamaria

Well-known member
I'm really not understanding the liberal logic going on here. Putin invaded Ukraine while Biden is president, but this in your view is somehow Trump's fault? Come on, this has nothing to do with Trump. If he had somehow been Putin's puppet, then Putin would have invaded Ukraine during Trump's presidency.

Exactly. The Russia-Ukraine conflict has been going on since 2012-13 or whenever. They could have easily started a war by now, especially under Trump's watch if Trump were the war monger that people claim he is. However, that hadn't happened. My bigger question is why are they choosing 2022 to renew the conflict? Is it because maybe they want to distract us all from other things that actually affect the whole world? Things such as the cabal's plan to usher us into a technocratic dystopian social credit rating slavery system, and so they want all eyes directed away? Especially since the trucker convoys are raising awareness and people are also slowly waking up to how dangerous these vaccines are?
 
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