Trump and Saturn

wilsontc

Staff member
Fellow Astrologers,

As you may know, when transiting Saturn dips below the Ascendant, it is entering the "obscure period" (as Grant Lewi called it), when a person starts to go inward and retreats from the world. This retreat continues until Saturn reaches the IC and "bottoms out" (as I call it) when people often are EXTREMELY withdrawn. Then, gradually the person comes OUT of this "shell" and back into the world, which arrival becomes complete when Saturn finally crosses the Descendant.

I mention this to contrast this with Trump's Saturn experience. When Saturn "bottomed out" in Trump's chart and was still in orb of the IC, Trump announced his candidacy for President (June 2015). While for most people would be a time of gradually coming back INTO the world as Saturn slowly rose int he chart, Trump was President and very much IN the world. Saturn now is on Trump's Descendant and will cross the Descendant in early March 2023, before the next Presidential election.

It will be interesting to watch what happens when Trump's Saturn, which had been below the chart and somewhat obscured, comes up and "into the light" at that time.

Watching,

Tim

P.S. Since any talking about Trump often arouses strong discussion, just a reminder that ANY posting on the main astrology forum requires ASTROLOGY to be in the posts. If you simply want to talk about politics, please do so in the Chat Forum.
 

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blackbery

Well-known member
During the time of the election 2016 campaign & inauguration, President Trump was experiencing a Jupiter
return which made a beautiful trine to his natal Sun/NN. It was a winning combination, particularly as Jupiter
was in perfect harmony with Uranus....sudden luck, upheavals, upsets in person's life that are favourable.
Certainly was the case for DJT!
Remember that nobody thought he was going to win, they had already crowned HRC as the next POTUS &
nobody could believe it when he won. Jupiter trumped over Saturn.
 

blackbery

Well-known member
With the current Saturn conjunct DS, we see his 'open enemies' showin by H7 with the illegal Jan 6 committe
filled with Trump-haters. RINO traitor Liz Cheney has lost her mind, not even listening to he Dem Bennie Thompson chor
the DOJ who have informed her that the Jan6 committee have no legal authority to file or even recommend
criminal charges against Trump or anyone else. The swamp creatures are really coming out to attack Trump, not
surprising when Saturn reaches this important angle.
At the same time, Saturn is playing nice to Trump's powerful Sun/NN conjunction. No matter how much they try to
destroy Trump, he is more popular than ever & MAGA the most successful political movement in US History.
Saturn rules time, chronos. Yep, his enemies sure getting their 'karma back' 10 fold,
The Trump curse strikes again.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
One thing-Trumps natal saturn is in the duodenary of Aries-so there is an element of fall modifying it’s already detrimented position in cancer. Conjunct with Venus somewhat helps saturn (but afflicts Venus), but it’s separating so that modifies it somewhat. I make the Pauline dodekatemorion at about the same place as the sun & NN (within orb by my perspective), which substantially improves the overall Saturn situation; to me, though, the final vote here in due to Saturns conjunction with Procyon (that star being in its rising mode), which really says it all (eminence & the positive & the negative; qv @ constellation of words) I believe we have Saturn in this chart giving-at different times-both very malefic AND very benefic influences-certainly an unusual situation.
 
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blackbery

Well-known member
One thing-Trumps natal saturn is in the duodenary of Aries-so there is an element of fall modifying it’s already detrimented position in cancer. Conjunct with Venus somewhat helps saturn (but afflicts Venus), but it’s separating so that modifies it somewhat. I make the Pauline dodekatemorion at about the same place as the sun & NN (within orb by my perspective), which substantially improves the overall Saturn situation; to me, though, the final vote here in due to Saturns conjunction with Procyon (that star being in its rising mode), which really says it all (eminence & the positive & the negative; qv @ constellation of words) I believe we have Saturn in this chart giving-at different times-both very malefic AND very benefic influences-certainly an unusual situation.
Re: the posting by Dr. Farr
President Trump' Saturn conj Procyon is most fortunate, esp with Venus in conjunction too.
In astrology, like its constellation, it portends wealth, fame, & good fortune. Procyon is one of the 15 Behenian Fixed Stars.
Even before T entered politics, he was well known & very well liked but after he won the presidency, the attacks really began
with their daily lies & slander. This is where the negative attributes of Saturn/Procyon comes in. The fake news manufactured the hate because DJT's an outsider who came to drain the swamp & put America & the people first.
The criminal cabal doesn't want to be drained; they want to keep the elites getting wealthier while 99% get poorer.
So there definitely is some misfortune with Saturn but Venus will always work in T's favour. He's gone bankrupt
several times but always bounces back & remains confident. That's both Jupiter & Venus working in his chart.
He's been persecuted for 6 yrs now yet he's more popular & more beloved than ever. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

But going back to T.Wilson's original theory about Saturn.... it's going to be years until Saturn reaches Trump's MC.
Saturn goes RX until end of Oct/22.....then it has to travel through H6 back to H7. Jupiter will reach his MC long before
Saturn so perhaps when it does reach that point, he might die. Could even be assassinated with Algol on his MC.
It won't take place until after he finishes his 2nd Term (he will win in 2024)...some time in early 2029 so that's when his
presidency would end....Saturn can be about retirement, retreating.
 

wilsontc

Staff member
I believe we have Saturn in this chart giving-at different times-both very malefic AND very benefic influences-certainly an unusual situation.
Dr, Farr,

Your thoughts about Saturn in Aries and Venus seem to me to be spot on to the "Trump experience": fortunate for Trump but afflicted. As has been noted, Trump often gets in his own way, such as when Trump says something that sounds bad but clarifies his point later (e.g., "...very fine people on both sides..." followed much LATER with the clarification, "...and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally..."). Another thing about Trump's Saturn transit during his Presidency (which HAS been talked about by astrologers) is Trump's Saturn opposes or conjuncts Trump's personal planets as Saturn rises, indicating times of personal "restriction" (Saturn) in Trump's life.

Following up,

Tim
 

sinhtheslumberingdragon

Well-known member
One thing-Trumps natal saturn is in the duodenary of Aries-so there is an element of fall modifying it’s already detrimented position in cancer. Conjunct with Venus somewhat helps saturn (but afflicts Venus), but it’s separating so that modifies it somewhat. I make the Pauline dodekatemorion at about the same place as the sun & NN (within orb by my perspective), which substantially improves the overall Saturn situation; to me, though, the final vote here in due to Saturns conjunction with Procyon (that star being in its rising mode), which really says it all (eminence & the positive & the negative; qv @ constellation of words) I believe we have Saturn in this chart giving-at different times-both very malefic AND very benefic influences-certainly an unusual situation.
Saturn is contained here by Jupiter I believe.
Squares, with perfect reception (exalt/exalt)
Jupiter stations direct, and is not debiltated unlike Saturn, but rather Jupiter is stregthened by triplicity and bound. This greatly helps modify a rather unpleasant Saturn.
Unfortunately Jupiter is not able to take the Superior position here - which would otherwise make the aspect a lot better.
Jupiter also receives assistance from Venus, by reception

Frimicus writes this of Jupiter sq Saturn:
2. If Saturn and Jupiter are in square aspect and Saturn is above,
holding the upper degree of a right square, but Jupiter lower, in a left
square, they indicate difficulties in life, diminish possessions, distort all
plans, hinder activities; unsettle the mind with many kinds of dissension;
attack fathers with various catastrophes, and waste paternal inheritance.

3. But if Jupiter is above and holds the right side while Saturn is
located in the left square, the misfortunes are lessened, parents achieve
distinction and fame, and daily profit is earned, all according to the
measurement of the chart.

Mostly interesting is the "wastes paternal inheritance". Trump has a known habit of driving his businesses bankrupt, which were funded using largerly his fathers money
 

blackbery

Well-known member
Dr, Farr,

Your thoughts about Saturn in Aries and Venus seem to me to be spot on to the "Trump experience": fortunate for Trump but afflicted. As has been noted, Trump often gets in his own way, such as when Trump says something that sounds bad but clarifies his point later (e.g., "...very fine people on both sides..." followed much LATER with the clarification, "...and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally..."). Another thing about Trump's Saturn transit during his Presidency (which HAS been talked about by astrologers) is Trump's Saturn opposes or conjuncts Trump's personal planets as Saturn rises, indicating times of personal "restriction" (Saturn) in Trump's life.

Following up,

Tim
The so-called 'hate speech' is a perfect example of the corrupt media making things up to portray Trump as a racist which they
did from day one with no facts or evidence. That's Saturn/Procyon used negatively to deliberately misinform as Saturn rules
hate. At the same time, T said 'there were good people on both sides, he included the following "but I'm not talking about the horrible
neo-nazis'...but the fake news didn't add that last part when attacking him once again.
Strange how the black rappers & entertainers that loved T before he ran for politics all distanced themselves from him coz
the Dem Party initiated a bogus, non-stop narrative which produced hate & division. With a Moon Sagittarius conjunct SN,
there will be many people who are fooled into believing the slander campaign against him which is compsetely untrue.
But one thing you can say with Mars conjunct Regulus conj AC & Saturn/Venus/Procoyn is that Trump is renowned throughout
the world, both as 'orangemanbad' or as the greatest president America has ever had. As a businessman, he had great failufres
but enormous success overall with his Trump 'brand' known throughout the world: quality, class, beauty.
He does have Jupiter conjunct Chiron in Libra.


Donald Trump’s no racist, as past acts and presidential record prove​


 

blackbery

Well-known member
Mostly interesting is the "wastes paternal inheritance". Trump has a known habit of driving his businesses bankrupt, which were funded using largerly his fathers money

It is not unusual for businesses to fail....majority of people experience bankruptcy at least once in their business lives.
However, the key to Jupiter sq Saturn is to not allow it to keep you down. Trump carried on, never giving up the desire
to achieve more success...which he has done with numerous hotels, golf courses around the world. He may or may not
be a billionnaire but he lost millions when entering politics. He also donated his entire presidential salary.
T never entered politics to get rich or powerful like the majority of swamp creature in politics;he has been wealthy &
well known his entire life; he entered to help America which he loves dearly, Venus in Cancer compassion.
Moon sextile Jupiter gives great affection & warmth to people & DJT always tells the American people that he loves them
& gladly takes the 'slings & arrows' for them. People can sense his character despite the fake news & that's why his
MAGA movement is growing & the most successful political movement in US history.
 

wilsontc

Staff member
Frimicus writes this of Jupiter sq Saturn:
2. If Saturn and Jupiter are in square aspect and Saturn is above,
holding the upper degree of a right square, but Jupiter lower, in a left
square, they indicate difficulties in life, diminish possessions, distort all
plans, hinder activities; unsettle the mind with many kinds of dissension;
attack fathers with various catastrophes, and waste paternal inheritance...

Mostly interesting is the "wastes paternal inheritance". Trump has a known habit of driving his businesses bankrupt, which were funded using largerly his fathers money
sin,

I agree, Trump's real estate failures were "legendary," even BEFORE Trump was President. Trump has always been "boom and bust" and his "real estate university" in which he "farmed out" the real estate teaching to other people is an example of his "wasting" of his inheritance. It's interesting how the pattern noticed by Dr. Farr in Trump's chart is repeated in the aspects of Saturn and Jupiter to each other: advantages combined with disadvantages.

Following Up,

Tim
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
In 2020 and 21, Trump's cycle of success than bust and comeback has fallen yet again: Transitional saturn was in Capricorn (5th) square his natal Aries (8th)...read on what I found, learned and became convinced the Trump presidency was predicted to turn really bad in his only presidential term esp. of 2018-19 (could started earlier in 2017 and now he's probably going to be convicted in 2022).
 

wilsontc

Staff member
In 2020 and 21, Trump's cycle of success than bust and comeback has fallen yet again: Transitional saturn was in Capricorn (5th) square his natal Aries (8th)....
CapAquaPis,

In January 2020, with Trump's inauguration, Trump's Saturn was TRINE the Midheaven, indicating a great time for Trump to reach his goals in his career. Trump has no planets in Aries, and because of the strong 4th quadrant layout of Trump's chart, the biggest challenge for him from Saturn is a series of oppositions to his personal planets as Saturn rises from the IC. There is no transiting square between Saturn and Uranus.

There were squares to Neptune and Jupiter that also occurred with Saturn's rising from the IC. While transiting Saturn square Neptune happened before Trump's election, the square of transiting Saturn to Jupiter happened at the time of transiting Saturn trine the Midheaven during Trump's inauguration, so along with the help of the trine in Trump's achieving his goals there was ALSO a limitation to Trump's expansiveness at the time, continuing the "boom and bust" cycle I mentioned, this time happening at the same time, indicating a level of frustration with his career advancement.

Interestingly, transiting Saturn is right now TRINING Uranus, indicating the success of Trump's business interest with the tech company Truth Social. However, along with "boom and bust" theme, transiting Saturn is OPPOSING Mars, indicating Trump is having problems taking the actions he wants to take and feels personally restricted in taking actions, as is indicated by the court case in NYC against him.

Booming and Busting,

Tim
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
It is not unusual for businesses to fail....majority of people experience bankruptcy at least once in their business lives.
However, the key to Jupiter sq Saturn is to not allow it to keep you down. Trump carried on, never giving up the desire
to achieve more success...which he has done with numerous hotels, golf courses around the world. He may or may not
be a billionnaire but he lost millions when entering politics. He also donated his entire presidential salary.
T never entered politics to get rich or powerful like the majority of swamp creature in politics;he has been wealthy &
well known his entire life; he entered to help America which he loves dearly, Venus in Cancer compassion.
Moon sextile Jupiter gives great affection & warmth to people & DJT always tells the American people that he loves them
& gladly takes the 'slings & arrows' for them. People can sense his character despite the fake news & that's why his
MAGA movement is growing & the most successful political movement in US history.

Trump natal has VENUS-SATURN conjunction :)

SATURN onto Venus favorably placed

indicate success in business and marriage for the unmarried.

Every kind of honour
is divined from
the nature of attending stars

for SATURN brings about power
based on wealth and amassing of treasure
The images and the stars cause the beginning of matters

the houserulers cause the end of matters.

SATURN transits each house for 2.5 YEARS
UNLESS RETROGRADE :)


FREE ONLINE EPHEMERIS for any interested

at : https://horoscopes.astro-seek.com/ep...anet-positions


Benjamin Dykes translation of Abu Mashars GREAT INTRODUCTION
http://theastrologypodcast.com/2019/08/09/abu-mashar-on-solar-returns-with-benjamin-dykes/

'...
SATURN signifies magicians and masters of discord :)
and the knowledge of secrets
and one does not know what is in his mind
nor does a wise person make disclosures to him

about every obscure matter.




Trumps chart is viewable online at numerous sites
and is validation of observing effects of FIXED STARS

Trump has powerful FIXED STARS conjunct natal chart angles
THE FIXED STARS IN NATAL ASTROLOGY
http://constellationsofwords.com/cat...atalrobson.htm

The Trump nativity would have been called
"An Imperial Horosocope"
by the court astrologers of the Roman emperors
(prior to the 4th century CE)



trump-natal-tmb.jpg
 
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CapAquaPis

Well-known member
His saturn conjunct venus in the cusp 11th-12th is a sign he's a womanizer! And that's not really a good thing, because his history of affairs, scandals, rudeness and harassment towards women is well known...and leans on the cusp Cancer (his saturn) and Leo (his venus), though the natal chart uses his exact birth time could have the conjunction either in the 11th or the 12th completely.
 
Such an interesting thread!

I only see a chart with transits, but I thought for predictions you also need to see the progressions. They set up the coming events and the transits then trigger them. Or not.

I actually have a book about it which admittedly makes my head spin a little… There is so much information… It’s Celeste Teal’s “Identifying Planetary Triggers” and it’s awesome, just, like I said, overwhelming. She discusses planetary returns of all the personal planets, plus solar returns, lunar returns, secondary returns, and transits. Gulp.

For predictions like what you’re talking about concerning a public personality the life of whom affects world events, I mean, we’re talking about a presidential election of arguably the most powerful country in the world (depending how you look at it), not whether Joe Shmo is getting re-elected to the local playground commission, so given the world-wide impact of everything that guy does, what kind of predictive method is called for here, in your opinion?

And maybe, once we agree on the type of chart needed, we should do it. Sort of like a collective project. Regardless of what our own politics are like. Personally I’m always in favor of clarity. I like to know how things work. I want to understand the mechanics. Does that make sense?
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Such an interesting thread!

I only see a chart with transits, but I thought for predictions you also need to see the progressions. They set up the coming events and the transits then trigger them. Or not.

I actually have a book about it which admittedly makes my head spin a little… There is so much information… It’s Celeste Teal’s “Identifying Planetary Triggers” and it’s awesome, just, like I said, overwhelming. She discusses planetary returns of all the personal planets, plus solar returns, lunar returns, secondary returns, and transits. Gulp.
I have a copy of that book :)
For predictions like what you’re talking about concerning a public personality the life of whom affects world events, I mean, we’re talking about a presidential election of arguably the most powerful country in the world (depending how you look at it), not whether Joe Shmo is getting re-elected to the local playground commission, so given the world-wide impact of everything that guy does, what kind of predictive method is called for here, in your opinion?

And maybe, once we agree on the type of chart needed, we should do it. Sort of like a collective project. Regardless of what our own politics are like. Personally I’m always in favor of clarity. I like to know how things work. I want to understand the mechanics. Does that make sense?
 

wilsontc

Staff member
I only see a chart with transits, but I thought for predictions you also need to see the progressions. They set up the coming events and the transits then trigger them.

Mercury,

I've heard of this theory and am familiar with the book. From my life experience I think transits VERY MUCH by themselves and DON'T need to be reinforced by progressions. For example, Saturn Squares, Jupiter Returns, and Uranus Oppositions all work based on the planetary TRANSIT regardless of the progressions which accompany them. As mentioned, in Trump's chart, simply following Saturn transits can show a LOT about the "authority" (positive Saturn aspects) and "restrictions" (negative Saturn aspects).

About the Power of Transits,

Tim
 

wilsontc

Staff member
His saturn conjunct venus in the cusp 11th-12th is a sign he's a womanizer! And that's not really a good thing, because his history of affairs, scandals, rudeness and harassment towards women is well known...and leans on the cusp Cancer (his saturn) and Leo (his venus), though the natal chart uses his exact birth time could have the conjunction either in the 11th or the 12th completely.
CapAquaPis,

I hadn't thought about this one. Trump is a well-known womanizer, famously cheating on his wife only to marry the person he cheated on his wife with. Aside from Saturn Venus's location, Trump also has Jupiter (expansion) square (energy needs to be combined with) Venus (love), suggesting a person who has many opportunities in love and doesn't respect the bounds (Saturn) of marriage. However, Trump's getting MARRIED to those he cheats with COULD be indicated by Saturn being conjunct Venus (as you mention), with Saturn urging Trump to "solidify" Venus in his life through marriage. This would show a "back and forth" with Jupiter urging expansion in love and Saturn urging limitation in love. More of that "back and forth" involving Saturn that is a theme in Trump's chart.

Following Up,

Tim
 
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